Hi,

So I have decided to go for a security camera system for my 2 bedroom flat.

Me, I want to tape the crooks.
The wife, well; she wants to spy on the pets while she's out.

Now there are a million different I.P cameras out there; and I can't see the wood for the trees.
Ideally I'd like a system that contains:

-4 or 5 HD cameras.
-Safe storage of data.
-Live access to any camera from a smartphone.
-A system without too many cables being run through the house.

I see systems with 3TB hard drives and their own router....that sounds OK.
I am just afraid that the crook that has just broken into my apartment and has been filmed during the act.....will now actively hunt for the hard drive.
So cloud storage sounds like the way to go.
Or perhaps both, so a hard drive and a cloud?

I am willing to spend some good coin on it, so it doesn't have to be cheap!

I am sure there are some security savvy peoole on this forum who can give us a hint or two.
So, please shoot!

Thanks!

No Tax On Rotax

notaxonrotax wrote:

Hi,

So I have decided to go for a security camera system for my 2 bedroom flat.

Me, I want to tape the crooks.
The wife, well; she wants to spy on the pets while she's out.

Now there are a million different I.P cameras out there; and I can't see the wood for the trees.
Ideally I'd like a system that contains:

-4 or 5 HD cameras.
-Safe storage of data.
-Live access to any camera from a smartphone.
-A system without too many cables being run through the house.

I see systems with 3TB hard drives and their own router....that sounds OK.
I am just afraid that the crook that has just broken into my apartment and has been filmed during the act.....will now actively hunt for the hard drive.
So cloud storage sounds like the way to go.
Or perhaps both, so a hard drive and a cloud?

I am willing to spend some good coin on it, so it doesn't have to be cheap!

I am sure there are some security savvy peoole on this forum who can give us a hint or two.
So, please shoot!

Thanks!

No Tax On Rotax

First, I will note that I believe in wires, I have a wired system. No one can hack or link into my video feeds and the video flows to online cloud locations via wire, it has a wireless option as back up with battery if power is lost. Paranoid? OK maybe but it is, but it is secure (you can't jam my video).

Second, have off site storage or its worthless in the ultimate situation. I have my system (which has the HD) hidden in a location no one can get to from the house. It also sends to a cloud storage. If in the house in an easy to get to location someone can simply take the system with the HD and be gone and everything is gone. So offsite storage of the feed is key. Nowadays pretty much everything is cloud based and stored (which wasn't the case 8 years ago) so it is less of an issue but not all cloud based options give you long term storage (I have 30 days at 1080 with my home HD but have to choose the level of definition for my cloud, anywhere from 48hours to two weeks) and it can cost you. Also someone you trust should also have the password to login if everything goes wrong.

Third, I have a camera wired in a tree away from the others. So if someone get the cute idea to block the visible cameras (spray paint, tape, socks, whatever) I have another view that will see what is going on. Truthfully I think the two visible cameras outside has deterred people from coming to my home.

Anyway, probably too much paranoia but I figure if I am doing this I am covering all possibilities. It's been running for eight years now (with one upgrade) and has already helped bust/solve two things that happened in my neighborhood.

Tugg

Go with a bundle of 8 channel DVR and a combination of wired/wireless cameras. Costco sells Q-See and Lorex. Look for a sale. While it is easy to open a port in the router and use from phone, having a OpenVPN capable router and tunnel into to home VPN and view cameras.is slightly more secure. Also never have cameras inside the house. If you can see so does others.

Thanks for the replies, so far!
Great tips!

Any particular brand or "set" (camera´s + recorder + router?) you could recommend, please?


Appreciated!



No tax On Rotax

At the lower end of the market there is little point looking at brand names, practically everything comes out of the same factories in China. Forget the headline spec, look carefully at a more detailed description to see what the system is capable of. Analytics is currently a big selling point but on lower end systems it's a waste of space. In a small installation set it to record in maximum resolution 24/7. Steer clear of odd video codings, H264 in one incarnation or another is the best ATM, but go with ONVIF if you are sourcing the components from different labels.

Don`t bother with anything over 3Mp, with lower-mid range systems the limited quality gain isn't worth the extra data transmission load. Put a decent drive in the DVR, WD Purples or something similar, or if the DVR supports it, put in two and mirror them. On the question of wireless/wired I'm with Tugger, good quality cabling every time, with wireless backup, or at least on-camera storage.

Most system suppliers have their own cloud service and/or DDNS remote access options, however setting up your own system through hosting sites is usually a more stable option.

If you are going a little more upmarket then Bosch or Panasonic are great.

TTFN

Hi,

most importantly: If you plan to hook it up with internet, put that traffic in a VPN via your router. If the router you have dosn´t support VPN, get a separate one as VPN terminator.
Configure it in a way that the Security system is only accessible via the VPN and no other traffic can get in or out.

If you don´t know how to do that, hire someone that does. Otherwise you just give people a good look into your house before they break in, because those security companies know about lots of things, but about IT security they know next to nothing. Many IP enabled decided come with bugs that have been fixed in normale Server or Desktop deployed software years ago.

best regards
Thomas

Q-See, Lorex and Swann offer good DVR camera bundles. You can find Q-See on sale at Home Depot. Costco has Q-See and Lorex. Usually bundles go on sale during Thanks Giving. Microcenter carries Swann. You can also buy DVR on eBay without HDD and add HDD and Cameras. I have 900TVL analog cameras, never felt I need 720p or 1080p cameras.

IHMO highly advertised cloud based single cameras are waste of money. They look fancy but more vulnerable to hacks and cost lot more as you build up the coverage.

ASUS has some of the best routers, again my personal opinion.

dtw2hyd wrote:

ASUS has some of the best routers, again my personal opinion.

In deed .. and easy to use. And you can expect good security due to this:

http://thehackernews.com/2016/02/asus-r ... k.html?m=1

I have 900TVL analog cameras, never felt I need 720p or 1080p cameras.

With 900 TV lines you shouldn't, unless you zoom in in details like distant number plates, where the higher resolution of a good HD camera should by off nicely.
But it would have to be FullHD, since 900 tvl and 720p are pretty much the same.

Best regards
Thomas

notaxonrotax wrote:

Thanks for the replies, so far!
Great tips!

Any particular brand or "set" (camera´s + recorder + router?) you could recommend, please?


Appreciated!



No tax On Rotax

Depends what country you are based in?
I use a https://www.y-cam.com/ system in the UK.
Really good service.

Security related, make sure you change the password from the default to your own. Also, have central monitoring if it's cost effective.

I have a Foscam setup. Foscam was a fly by night Chinese rebrand that likely has Chinese secret service backdoors.

It was a pain to set up, but I can direct dial to it from cell phone. If motion is detected in preset parameters, it can email me through dedicated email with HD shots. There is no cloud storage, but it is a FREE solution that works pretty well.

I see that Foscam has a site set back up. Their new motto is "DIY security."

don't know where you live, but i live in Vegas and my security camera's stop working when it gets hot especially my front yard camera which faces the sun. . I was told it was because i bought a cheap camera's/ btw there was nothing cheap about it. I listened and took it back and bought their top of the line camera. It had it's own little roof to protect it from the sun. . Guess what, it stopped working on hot days. My handyman said let me build you a birdhouse like protector for it. He made it out of wood, and it shaded the camera much better. Perfect solution.

i use the app nest. it shows me my front yard, backyard, golf putting green, and my r.v. parking area. The only thing it shows inside my home is my entry way. i stopped there because, there is such a thing as privacy. it will alert me, when something suspicious happens on my phone. The only thing is when the system goes down, and i'm out of town traveling there is nothing i can do until i get home. i have to remember i lived decades without knowing what was going on and i can live another 48 hours without not knowing.

DLFREEBIRD wrote:

don't know where you live, but i live in Vegas and my security camera's stop working when it gets hot especially my front yard camera which faces the sun. . I was told it was because i bought a cheap camera's/ btw there was nothing cheap about it..

They didn´t mean what you paid, they mean what the producer paid for the components. ...

Ok, Pelco FH-H security cameras for high temperature environments are a bit pricey...

best regards
Thomas

Flighty wrote:

I have a Foscam setup. Foscam was a fly by night Chinese rebrand that likely has Chinese secret service backdoors.

It was a pain to set up, but I can direct dial to it from cell phone. If motion is detected in preset parameters, it can email me through dedicated email with HD shots. There is no cloud storage, but it is a FREE solution that works pretty well.

I see that Foscam has a site set back up. Their new motto is "DIY security."

Even the high-end American brands are no different in its class. They are just shiny and make a fashion statement in the living room. At-least you pay far less for Foscam. Most IOT devices(including thermostats) are a nightmare to cyber security, because there are millions out there with bugs and frequently participate in DDoS attacks.

A DVR+hard wired camera bundle is slightly better.

Thanks, everybody.

I am in a pretty warm climate, but since I`m in a flat; the cameras wouldn't`t be exposed to the full sunlight.

Wired has the obvious disadvantage of having to install wires all through the house.

The argument of NOT hanging them inside the house is completely understandable; but I imagine those cameras can be switched off.
So when at home, those cameras inside WOULD indeed be switched off.
Once away from home, the wife likes to monitor the pets.
I think this is of little interest for possible hackers / burglars, as it would show the 2 couches, the bed, the hallway and perhaps the kitchen.
Not our TV´s, the computer, the safe; or any other items of interest.

Ideally, I would like to record the elevator (with permission of the neighbors on the other side of the hallway) and perhaps 1 camera outside on the balcony.
They could be on 24 hours, 365 days a year. I will try to protect it from direct sunlight on the balcony, thinks to this thread.
Why on the balcony? Because like "Tugg" wrote, it does help solving certain crimes or other situations that may occur.

So, 5 camera´s, 1 or 2 perhaps wired; and a recorder.
Is there a cloud service anyone could recommend?
I really I`d buy a whole package and I`m considering approaching a local security company to do the whole lot; if they don`t charge an arm and a leg!

Cheers for now!


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notaxonrotax wrote:

So when at home, those cameras inside WOULD indeed be switched off.

You are going to unplug them every time you come home? Mechanical off switches are sort of rare thesee days....

Best regards
Thomas

One option to monitor pets without losing privacy is to force interior camera permanently in night vision mode and mount close to floor.

You can rig interior camera in night vision mode by opening the camera housing (depends on the camera, remove screws in the back or unscrew front ring), tape/block photo voltaic sensor. You can watch pets while you are out and that channel won't show say anything above 2-3 feet. You have to try this out for your lighting conditions, because camera stuck in night vision during day light is pretty blurry.

Cloud service is waste of money and bandwidth, free services won't last long and they own rights to your video. You can setup DVR to send out e-mail on time bound and/or triggered events for the worst case scenario, where a crook destroys the DVR.

dtw2hyd wrote:

Flighty wrote:

I have a Foscam setup. Foscam was a fly by night Chinese rebrand that likely has Chinese secret service backdoors.

It was a pain to set up, but I can direct dial to it from cell phone. If motion is detected in preset parameters, it can email me through dedicated email with HD shots. There is no cloud storage, but it is a FREE solution that works pretty well.

I see that Foscam has a site set back up. Their new motto is "DIY security."

Even the high-end American brands are no different in its class. They are just shiny and make a fashion statement in the living room. At-least you pay far less for Foscam. Most IOT devices(including thermostats) are a nightmare to cyber security, because there are millions out there with bugs and frequently participate in DDoS attacks.

A DVR+hard wired camera bundle is slightly better.

Yes and actually Foscam's hardware/firmware integration is pretty impressive. These $70 cheap cameras are actually durable and their web interface is surprisingly powerful (a little bit complex for amateurs). One gets the feeling they have about 3-5 key individuals who engineered the product, and just a lack of finesse on retailing. It is almost charming. Their firmware doc is full of typos.

3 cameras, $200 invested, no monthly fees, no cloud. I think this is the right case for most people. Like you say, wiring is superior, but onboard camera memory can provide some lookback, of course not as safely as a wired control unit in an underground bunker / safe in the garage. Clearly some people take home protection to a high level, that's not me, my priority is to identify intruders and deter them.

i just want to point out just because you have camera doesn't mean you won't be broken into.

sadly, last night someone pulled up to my house with a u-haul truck. walked up to my camera and disconnected it. Then the camera shows them inside my entry way. i have sensors in each room, so it showed them walking through my house Then they left.

i called my handy man who came over and said nothing was taken but the outside camera.

also what was weird is that i have a Yale keyless entry paid lock and it showed that the system wasn't unlocked.
the last activity was me at 4:30 locking the door which registered as lock. it always tells me when someone didn't lock the house, so i have the door programmed to automatically lock after someone enters or leaves. . i have a record of everybody who has my code and nobody used their code
but some how they open the door, without punching in any of our codes and without it notifying our nest system. i dont have a key. i just have key-less entry paid.anybody know how did this guy walk through my door? which is exactly what the entry camera shows him doing.

then at 11:00 pm at night my security camera shows someone in the backyard, and then my system shows them exiting out the back door.
at this point my front camera gone, so i am assuming that he entered through the front door again.


i had friends staying over for the holiday weekend they were out the whole time and missed the drama. I called them and told them to find somewhere else to sleep for the night that it wasn't safe, but, they refused they said since there was 9 of
them, they would beat up whoever came through the door. .

today, i came back, and the only thing missing was the outdoor and front-door camera. so, they stole nothing but the nest outdoor cameras.
i wanted to send footage to the police, because i have two clear photos of the guy in the entry way and the guy that was in my backyard
it was a different guy who took down my backyard camera 2.5 hours after the first person took my front yard camera.. However, the police said no they didn't want it, and just gave me a incident number. they could care less.

maybe because they came over both times and said the house was secure both times. not knowing my house set up to self lock.



last break in at my house was several months ago my neighbor saw someone leaving my property with my big screen t.v and called the cops.
they were long gone before the cops showed up. This time, i bought cheap replacement t.v on craig list because i figured if i had nothing of quality they would leave me alone. i just want to be left alone. who'd think they would steal my camera's.? crazy world.

tommy1808 wrote:

Hi,

most importantly: If you plan to hook it up with internet, put that traffic in a VPN via your router. If the router you have dosn´t support VPN, get a separate one as VPN terminator.
Configure it in a way that the Security system is only accessible via the VPN and no other traffic can get in or out.

If you don´t know how to do that, hire someone that does. Otherwise you just give people a good look into your house before they break in, because those security companies know about lots of things, but about IT security they know next to nothing. Many IP enabled decided come with bugs that have been fixed in normale Server or Desktop deployed software years ago.

best regards
Thomas

Can you expand on this some as it makes no sense to me. Are you talking about tunneling the traffic to some external node (IE a server in another city) so that traffic can't be seen as it leaves your house to the cloud. If so that makes some sense though is probably very overkill as I imagine the only people who could/would tap DSL/Cable lines would be state actors and at that point that's probably the least of your concerns. But if you are not sending it to the cloud then the above it not good as that traffic was never going to leaving the network anyway and can't be seen from an external tap.

If your talking about setting a VPN between the device and the router then that seems pointless to me as the traffic becomes exposed at the router and the device is on the same LAN so the traffic would be accessible at the router/switch. Unless you meant VLAN in which case theoretically they are two separate networks with different traffic that should not intertwine, but that is only theory, VLANs can be penetrated by someone who knows what they are doing because both VLANs are being controlled by the same chip and software, it's not an air gap. I think the best solution in this case may be the 3 dumb routers (link)solution as now you have 2 physically separated LANs (or as close as you can while not having a second internet connection to the house). Or maybe just don't connect it to the internet, have a seperate switch/LAN that is not connected to your regular network so it is secure by a true air gap.

Really it more just making sure that your router(s) and Access Point(s)(WiFi) are configured properly (IE change the passwords to something strong, not "password") and using proper encryption of wifi (not WEP or no encryption), and if you use an network based camera solution make sure that they provide security updates for the devices so that the cameras don't become a method to get into the network themselves. If someone malicious gets into your network then you are screwed as someone who knows what they are doing can do whatever they want and no matter what protections you employ you can throw them out the window once they are inside your network they have control,

Raventech wrote:

Can you expand on this some as it makes no sense to me. Are you talking about tunneling the traffic to some external node (IE a server in another city) so that traffic can't be seen as it leaves your house to the cloud. If so that makes some sense though is probably very overkill as I imagine the only people who could/would tap DSL/Cable lines would be state actors and at that point that's probably the least of your concerns. But if you are not sending it to the cloud then the above it not good as that traffic was never going to leaving the network anyway and can't be seen from an external tap.

Router to end device. If the camera is acessable to from the outside, the camera is visible to the whole Internet. Exploits for them are available for download, so pretty much any scrip kiddy can "crack" your system. With a VPN it is only visible to those on that net.

If your talking about setting a VPN between the device and the router then that seems pointless to me as the traffic becomes exposed at the router and the device is on the same LAN so the traffic would be accessible at the router/switch. Unless you meant VLAN in which case theoretically they are two separate networks with different traffic that should not intertwine, but that is only theory, VLANs can be penetrated by someone who knows what they are doing because both VLANs are being controlled by the same chip and software

For decent routers/switches breaking out of the VLAN is pretty hard. My company makes industrial routers and we haven't had a confirmed breach out of VLAN or break into a VPN that wasn't due to configuration errors yet.
And we do critical infrastructure, so trust me, any potential breach really gets looked into. Of course our prices start at 500 eur....
The are also widely used to protect systems still running on windows XP, OS/2, NT and, believe it or not, Windows 3.11 in its embedded version and, yes, even MS DOS (we also still provide new hardware for both OS). Some devices just don't die, or replacing them is very expensive (often certification costs and/or compatibility issues with software).

it's not an air gap. I think the best solution in this case may be the 3 dumb routers (link)solution as now you have 2 physically separated LANs (or as close as you can while not having a second internet connection to the house). Or maybe just don't connect it to the internet, have a seperate switch/LAN that is not connected to your regular network so it is secure by a true air gap.

That is a good solution, although in the long run an expensive one due to power consumption, to keep an infected IoT device from compromising the rest of your network. It does hower not help at all to protect your camera from script kiddies, since you deliberately want the device to be acessable from the internet.

Really it more just making sure that your router(s) and Access Point(s)(WiFi) are configured properly (IE change the passwords to something strong, not "password") and using proper encryption of wifi (not WEP or no encryption),

All of that is right, but it only protects your router, the IoT device is still accessible from the internet

and if you use an network based camera solution make sure that they provide security updates for the devices so that the cameras don't become a method to get into the network themselves.

Good luck finding a camera type that is a) reasonable priced and b) gets to see updates more than one or two years after EOL, if at all after EOL. Many Iot devices come with years old bugs, right out of the box.

if someone malicious gets into your network then you are screwed as someone who knows what they are doing can do whatever they want and no matter what protections you employ you can throw them out the window once they are inside your network they have control,

Which is a perfect reason to have a VPN, breaking into that to see if there is a target behind it is hard, doing a port scan for vulnerable IoT devices is easy. Intrusion detection into a VPN is also much easier, as failed connects show up in logs and a decent VPN router can also send email/sms with any failed log in attempt. Iot devices often don't even log anything useful from a security perspective.
I hope that clears intentions up.

Best regards
Thomas

Hello....
There are various security cameras and security cameras brands available in the market. But to choose the best one that meets your security needs and budget is not the easy task and an individual themselves cannot do it properly. So, you should consult with any professional security cameras provider because they have experience of many years, they will assist you best. If you live in Orland, Florida area then you can contact with Wetter Solutions for help. They deal in various security camera brands and provide CCTV installation.

cylejoqid wrote:

Hello....you should consult with any professional security cameras provider because they have experience of many years, they will assist you best.

Hi, I am not in Florida but I did exactly that: I hired a professional company and I am very happy with the result.

iDMSS is the name of the app that gives me worldwide access to my own footage.

Cheers,

No Tax On Rotax

Whatever security system you're getting, make sure it's wired. I've had a terrible experience with a wireless CCTV surveillance system and shortly after setting it up, asked them to come over, replace it and complete the internal wiring. Main reasons for the transit being- a computer architect friend who visited my place showed how easy it is to produce interference with the Wi-Fi signals and disrupt the entire security system. Burglars are continuously finding new ways to hack wireless systems so it would be a wise idea if you go for the wired ones imo.