Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
UltimoTiger777 wrote:tommy1808 wrote:but people in retirement should of cause be excluded, after all they are dying out. Why give them a chance to salt the fields.....
So it's OK for the youth to salt it but not the people who spent their lives working and paying towards it?.
par13del wrote:Does anyone consider that the folks who voted leave knew the economic effect but thought that having the ability to have English Politicians and Judges make laws /rules / regulations that govern their daily lives was a price they were willing to pay, or do we believe that the only persons complaining now about the economic hit are the Brexiters?
tommy1808 wrote:UltimoTiger777 wrote:tommy1808 wrote:but people in retirement should of cause be excluded, after all they are dying out. Why give them a chance to salt the fields.....
So it's OK for the youth to salt it but not the people who spent their lives working and paying towards it?.
The youth is going to have to life of those fields, the old don´t care.
best regards
Thomas
Olddog wrote:par13del wrote:Does anyone consider that the folks who voted leave knew the economic effect but thought that having the ability to have English Politicians and Judges make laws /rules / regulations that govern their daily lives was a price they were willing to pay, or do we believe that the only persons complaining now about the economic hit are the Brexiters?
You are joking right? The UK government itself says it did not make the assessments and you expect the average voter from any country to have deep thinking and carefully consider what his vote will entail ?
UltimoTiger777 wrote:Well done on proving you're a troll.
Olddog wrote:I just don't get theses rules about voting age or who is able to vote changing every vote. In France you are allowed to vote since 18 to your death where ever you live providing you don't have a judicial condemnation forbidding you.
Olddog wrote:You are joking right? The UK government itself says it did not make the assessments and you expect the average voter from any country to have deep thinking and carefully consider what his vote will entail ?
Olddog wrote:I was thinking about the fact that british living outside UK were not allowed to vote in June referendum. Also I heart that for the Scottish vote voting age was extended to the 16 years old with a huge campaign warning that voting for independence was voting to be kicked outside EU ...
olle wrote:EU and UK seems to have agreed...
So what is the conclusion?
€ 55 Billion
EU and UK citizens protected in EU27 and UK
Irish border seems to be like was agreed a week ago, nut no solution described.
Is this closer to Remain or Leave a year ago?
Now thiss was the beginning of the end what canxpect from negiations during 2019?
anstar wrote:olle wrote:EU and UK seems to have agreed...
So what is the conclusion?
€ 55 Billion
EU and UK citizens protected in EU27 and UK
Irish border seems to be like was agreed a week ago, nut no solution described.
Is this closer to Remain or Leave a year ago?
Now thiss was the beginning of the end what canxpect from negiations during 2019?
They still havent solved the Irish border issue - but kicked the can down the road. The whole things a mess.
olle wrote:Car industry to Slovenia.
Financial services between Paris and Frankfurt
It industry Germany and Scandinavia.
olle wrote:EU and UK seems to have agreed...
So what is the conclusion?
€ 55 Billion
EU and UK citizens protected in EU27 and UK
Irish border seems to be like was agreed a week ago, nut no solution described.
The announcement this morning that Britain and the EU are finally ready to start actual negotiations is welcome news for Europeans. Almost 18 months after the referendum, the Brits have done what every reality-based observer knew they would have to do eventually: they have buckled.
By giving in to each and every EU demand, the May government is showing that it is finally learning to behave like the junior partner it is. Brussels and EU member states are far too polite and constructive to say so out loud, but for the next decade or so the default position for Britain in its dealings with the EU is simple: you suck it up.
In spite of all the insults, blackmail, hostility and ineptitude, many in Europe still see the British as friends
A more realistic British attitude helps decrease the odds of a chaotic and deeply harmful Brexit. With the exception of Vladimir Putin and any disaster capitalists betting on a collapse of the British economy, this is more good news for all involved. But commentators this morning were quick to point out that the talks about when to start talks were always the easy part. As the European council president Donald Tusk said on Twitter this morning: “Breaking up is hard. But breaking up and building a new relationship is much harder.”
So far, EU member states have shown a degree of unity that is often described as “remarkable”. But how remarkable is it really to keep one’s ranks closed when all Britain does is talk to itself about itself, leaving it entirely unclear what kind of Brexit it intends to pursue? Now that the actual talks are about to begin, the May government will be forced to choose between the options for a future relationship that the EU is offering, from a “soft Brexit” where Britain loses all political influence in Brussels but remains a member in all but name, to a “hard Brexit” where Britain assumes the same status as Canada or Turkey, a so-called “third country” with or without some sort of free trade agreement.
On Friday morning, major European news outlets such as Le Figaro in France and Die Zeit in Germany did not even lead their online editions with the breakthrough in Brussels. This reflects just how less important Brexit is for Europeans. But as Britain’s preferences become clear this lack of interest may change and so might political tensions.
The truth is that Brexit is going to play out differently for different member states, and so unity may very well make way for hard bargaining and open conflict on what kind of options to offer Britain. Should the Brexit dream team in May’s government be foolish enough to try to resurrect the age-old British policy of dividing the continent by fomenting conflict, this process may turn very ugly. Especially so in light of the coming negotiations over the next seven-year EU budget (“multi-annual financial framework” in the poetic language of Brussels) and unprecedented animosity between Poland and Hungary on the one hand and many other EU members on the other.
vc10 wrote:That is not quite true as when Ford shut down their plant in Eastleigh [uk] where transit vans were produced they were lent 80 million euros to help relocate it to
Turkey , a country not even in the EU
vc10 wrote:Tommy
Yes the EU had to approve the loan and the deal and what is the point of having this club if manufacturing is closed down in one country to relocate them to another country outside the EU with the resulting loss of 800 jobs in that EU country. I cold not see this happening in France or Germany where a factory is closed down so that their products can be made elsewhere especially outside of the tariff area
vc10 wrote:That is not quite true as when Ford shut down their plant in Eastleigh [uk] where transit vans were produced they were lent 80 million euros to help relocate it to Turkey , a country not even in the EU
vc10 wrote:No this deal was done for pure political reason to encourage Turkey to reform for entry into the EU . Ford is a commercial company and if it wanted to relocate it's production to Turkey then if they are using their own money so be it ,but the EU should not be lending them the money to do it
vc10 wrote:Aesma Thanks for that information , now tell me how many Renault or Fiat plants were closed down for this to happen
vc10 wrote:Li
You do not seem to understand that whist it is the European bank task to encourage friendly relations with other countries it should not do it at the expense of peoples jobs within the EU. If Ford was moving tit's plant to another EU country then perhaps you could understand it , but that was not the case
Brexit: May's EU deal not binding, says David Davis
blrsea wrote:If there isn't going to be a hard border between Ireland and N Ireland, how can they stop free movement of people/goods between EU and UK? Is there going to be immigration/custom checkposts between N Ireland and mainland UK then?
At the very least, her stupidity in rejecting the Efta/EEA option has confronted us with a situation far, far worse, while prolonging the Brexit agony for another two years. And when those two years are over, all the problems attendant on the UK becoming a third country will re-emerge.
For the moment though, we have the bizarre situation where the Irish media are providing better coverage of the issues that the UK equivalents, with the Irish Times telling us that EU Brexit negotiators have expressed doubts about the feasibility of the UK's pledge to avoid a hard Border in Ireland after Brexit.
European Commission officials, we are told, are saying the UK's determination to leave the single market and the customs union "seems hard to reconcile" with its promise to avoid a hard Border in Ireland.
That may well go down as the understatement of the century, but it does give some hint of the storm to come as the "bad Friday agreement" begins to unravel. Then, as Mr Blair never said, things can only get worse.
Hermann Reiner
The UK was never real a part of the EU, joined in 1973, renegotiated the treaty in 1974, first referendum to leave in 1975, then special deals every new step in the evolution of the EU. Did not join the Schengen agreement, did not adapt the Euro.
Britain's membership of the EU has contained a number of opt-outs and exemptions only made possible by the EU's flexibility. "Since the UK joined the EU, it has enjoyed a bespoke form of membership that is unique. An opt-out from the euro, but banker to the Eurozone. An opt-out from Schengen, but access to the security databases linked to it. A blanket opt-out from Justice and Home Affairs, with the possibility to opt back into the most effective crime-fighting measures. The list goes on."
The politicians never talked positive about the EU, the was always the negative talk about anything the EU did. ................ the UK should have been kicked out of the EU some 20 years ago, for constantly interfering with the EU goals for a closer Union. So UK, please leave and make it fast. You invoked article and now get the hell out.
Now the UK politicians cannot even make up their mind about article 50. And your High Court tells you to ask parliament, where 70 % of the members are for remain.
Frankly you could not even have the qualified negotiators of how to leave the EU, as all trade negations were done by the EU for the last 40 years. And you cannot financially afford to leave the EU. All multinational companies lured to the UK with the promise to a free market of the EU of 500 mil will want to have similar deals that was promised already to Nissan, these company will blackmail the UK government with Theresa May at his head. Tariff compensation would be illegal under WTO and EU rules, and it would not be acceptable to Nissan's competitors on the continent. Something else must have been offered.
When the European economy was booming in the 60’s and 70’s the UK was in the middle age. Only when you joined the EU to become a more modern society. British cars were the joke and laughter of the world.
I used to live in London in 1973/4, when the coal miners went on strike, then the dockworkers, so no electricity for several month, stores were open for 6 hours only, no elevators, no escalators running, no cash registers working, rolling brownouts when you took the bus home in evening. TV off at 9:30 pm to save electricity for hospitals. Pubs closed at 9 pm. Electricity in my room, one had to put a shilling into the meter, with 6-shilling max. No change and you would sit in the dark.
Go back to your salted butter, homemade beer and wine, and cook your freeze dried packaged foods.
And instead of Spain please visit Guernsey and Jersey, maybe Brighton.
Once some half million of your EU workforce will leave, you can replace them with cheap labor from the old Commonwealth, like you had done in the 60's.
History
UK: Do what we want or we leave.
EU: What do you want?
UK: We don't want to be in the Euro.
EU: Done.
UK: But we want the right to do Euro clearing in London.
EU: Done.
UK: We want a rebate.
EU: Done.
UK: We don't want to be part of Schengen.
EU: Done.
UK: We want to expand the EU to the eastern European countries.
EU: Done.
UK: And we want Turkey to join.
EU: Eh...not sure about that one...I guess we can talk about this, depending on how Turkey develops....
UK: And we want extra rules for immigration because of all of those Eastern Europeans coming to us.
EU: But you wanted this. And you don't even use the options you already have to control immigration.
UK: Otherwise we leave!
EU: Okay, if you want to. There is nothing more we can give you!
UK: You cause too much immigration! And you want Turkey to join! We have voted to leave.
EU: Yes, we noticed. Well, you know the rules, no trade negotiations until you trigger article 50 and then we first need to talk about how we entangle the UK from the EU. Than we can talk about trade.
UK: We need some time to discuss the.
EU: We aren't in any hurry.
UK: We have now triggered article 50.
EU: Great so now we can talk about the divorce.
UK: But we want to talk about trade.
EU: First we need to clear up a number of important issues. So what is your suggestion?
UK: ------
EU: How about this?
UK: No, totally inacceptable. What we want is out cake and eat it too.
EU: That is impossible.
UK: Go whistle.
EU: Ticktock.
UK: We have talked. We want a transitional period or we wont get done.
EU: Well, we might if you don't delay all the time...but okay, provided that we made some progress. So what is you suggestion.
UK: We want all the advantage of the single market and the customs union while following our own standards and no free movement.
EU: That is impossible.
UK: YOU ARE BLACKMAILING US!!!!!
