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par13del
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Re: Brexit - EU position

Wed Nov 22, 2017 3:36 pm

Dutchy wrote:
Sure, but these will benefit the few, these costs are real expenses for the many.

Well that also depends. the tourist industry is usually a high labour force industry, more persons working means less persons on government benefits, more money for government to spend on other necessities, more funds generated from the private sector means more true "revenue" for the government versus recycling government money obtained by taxes then provided by benefits, also the increased cost will make it more economically viable for locals to get into local food production.
One has to assume that is also one of the reasons for Brexit....
 
tommy1808
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Re: Brexit - EU position

Wed Nov 22, 2017 3:42 pm

par13del wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Sure, but these will benefit the few, these costs are real expenses for the many.

Well that also depends. the tourist industry is usually a high labour force industry,...


it is also a not paid so well industry......

best regards
Thomas
NIKV69 wrote:
The race is over. Moore has over 50% of the vote with just about half the votes in. Jones can't overcome that. McConnell has 10am meeting tomorrow so they can get this guy removed. At least the seat stays Republican. That is the important thing.
:D
 
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par13del
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Re: Brexit - EU position

Wed Nov 22, 2017 3:51 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
it is also a not paid so well industry......

best regards
Thomas

...which is where the majority of jobs are heading, in a few countries it is more economic (make more money) to be on benefits rather than to work, which is where my recycling comment comes from, tax, benefits, tax from benefit money, wash, rinse, repeat, the more private sector jobs the more new money flows into the system.
Besides, high paying jobs make up a smaller percentage of all work forces, and with the angst presently in place on high end job bonuses, it is only a matter of time before the standard of high paying goes even lower.
 
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par13del
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Re: Brexit - EU position

Wed Nov 22, 2017 3:52 pm

Neglected to add, it is also an industry that generates billions in profits on an annual basis, so maybe they will start looking at redistribution there also and not just on financial and other white collar jobs?
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: Brexit - EU position

Wed Nov 22, 2017 4:13 pm

Game theory here applies, and in spades! The essential failure on the British side is multiple lacks of apprehending reality. Hence EU can play England easily.
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
 
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par13del
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Re: Brexit - EU position

Wed Nov 22, 2017 4:44 pm

Well at the start of the process it was stated that the UK had no leverage and everything was on the EU side, so what is taking place is / was expected, right?
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit - EU position

Wed Nov 22, 2017 5:50 pm

par13del wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Sure, but these will benefit the few, these costs are real expenses for the many.

Well that also depends. the tourist industry is usually a high labour force industry, more persons working means less persons on government benefits, more money for government to spend on other necessities, more funds generated from the private sector means more true "revenue" for the government versus recycling government money obtained by taxes then provided by benefits, also the increased cost will make it more economically viable for locals to get into local food production.
One has to assume that is also one of the reasons for Brexit....


Sure, but I highly doubt this will offset the € 500 per year the average household is loosing out. And that was the point I was trying to make.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
Olddog
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Re: Brexit - EU position

Wed Nov 22, 2017 5:51 pm

The problem is deeper. It is like if UK was in the EU for more than 40 years and never bothered to learn the rules:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/ ... says-spain
Last edited by Olddog on Wed Nov 22, 2017 5:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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par13del
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Re: Brexit - EU position

Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:59 pm

So back to the non-existent deal between the EU and Spain on Gibraltar, I guess this could serve as a model for Ireland....?
 
Olddog
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Re: Brexit - EU position

Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:01 pm

In what way?
 
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par13del
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Re: Brexit - EU position

Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:35 pm

Well the issue between Spain, the UK and Gibraltar predates the EU, Spain got consideration from the EU on Gibraltar in the Brexit negotiations, why cant the Republic of Ireland get the same as it relates to Northern Ireland, their separation also predates the EU.
 
UltimoTiger777
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Re: Brexit - EU position

Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:53 pm

Olddog wrote:
I think that the talks will stall as Davis just said he will do nothing about the border until the trade talks, so total deadlock.


All you have to do is talk trade and we can solve the border issue. I'm sure it's not that hard.
 
prebennorholm
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Re: Brexit - EU position

Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:46 pm

Olddog wrote:
I think that the talks will stall as Davis just said he will do nothing about the border until the trade talks, so total deadlock.

How come? I don't see the logic behind a "deadlock".

The border is a consequence of the trade agreement. If movement of goods and people is free, then there is no border to control, and visa versa. Any limitations to free movements at an EU outer border will have to be enforced.

The trade agreement pretty much defines how the border will work, that's a natural law, isn't it? To me Davis just explains a natural law the same way Newton explained the law of gravity.

The border between Norway and Sweden is more "open" than the border between Finland and Russia, due to a natural law, not the law of gravity, but almost.
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
Olddog
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Re: Brexit - EU position

Thu Nov 23, 2017 5:59 am

No the border is not the consequence of a Trade agreement. It is the consequence of being a totally independent country and international rules. The UK is trying to keep an unfeathered access to the single market like if they still were a member. Dream on....
 
tommy1808
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Re: Brexit - EU position

Thu Nov 23, 2017 6:01 am

prebennorholm wrote:
The trade agreement pretty much defines how the border will work, that's a natural law, isn't it? To me Davis just explains a natural law the same way Newton explained the law of gravity.

The border between Norway and Sweden is more "open" than the border between Finland and Russia, due to a natural law, not the law of gravity, but almost.


UltimoTiger777 wrote:
Olddog wrote:
I think that the talks will stall as Davis just said he will do nothing about the border until the trade talks, so total deadlock.


All you have to do is talk trade and we can solve the border issue. I'm sure it's not that hard.


Borders are not just about trade, they are also about people. How much border there can be in the way of tariffs and checks will be defined by the trade agreement, but trade agreements don´t define how to treat people at a border. Right now i can toss a billion EUR in the trunk of my car and drive it over to a dutch bank, where i need to explain how i got my hand on that much cash, but that is about it. The limit for unchecked cash transfers in and out the EU is different.

Borders are just emotions and logistics, trade is where it gets complicated and far reaching. Obviously borders have to be solve first. I can understand the UK position, after all the UK cares sh*t all about open borders, but a lot about open trade, while for the EU you can´t have one without the other. But the whole idea is a lot like going to a job interview and discussion working ours and vacation time before you talk about the job you are supposed to do and how much you get paid.

best regards
Thomas
NIKV69 wrote:
The race is over. Moore has over 50% of the vote with just about half the votes in. Jones can't overcome that. McConnell has 10am meeting tomorrow so they can get this guy removed. At least the seat stays Republican. That is the important thing.
:D
 
JJJ
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Re: Brexit - EU position

Thu Nov 23, 2017 7:37 am

par13del wrote:
Well the issue between Spain, the UK and Gibraltar predates the EU, Spain got consideration from the EU on Gibraltar in the Brexit negotiations, why cant the Republic of Ireland get the same as it relates to Northern Ireland, their separation also predates the EU.


Because Gibraltar is not an integral part of the UK, but rather one of those funny bits scattered around the globe. The EU strongarmed Spain at the time of Spanish accesion to accept that Gibraltar would be part of the EU for all intents and purposes, but now they're heading out the situation reverts.

The day Gibraltar becomes a part of the UK, under the same laws and taxes, etc. the Spanish foreign minister will pop out the cava.

NI, OTOH is fully part of the UK, so whatever rules are put in place for the UK will work for them.

Here's the circle that the UK wants squared. Good luck.
Image
 
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par13del
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Re: Brexit - EU position

Thu Nov 23, 2017 11:16 am

JJJ wrote:
Because Gibraltar is not an integral part of the UK, but rather one of those funny bits scattered around the globe.

There are some who would disagree with this statement, but fine, it is what it is.
 
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Dano1977
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Re: Brexit - EU position

Thu Nov 23, 2017 11:25 am

JJJ wrote:
par13del wrote:
Well the issue between Spain, the UK and Gibraltar predates the EU, Spain got consideration from the EU on Gibraltar in the Brexit negotiations, why cant the Republic of Ireland get the same as it relates to Northern Ireland, their separation also predates the EU.


Because Gibraltar is not an integral part of the UK, but rather one of those funny bits scattered around the globe. The EU strongarmed Spain at the time of Spanish accesion to accept that Gibraltar would be part of the EU for all intents and purposes, but now they're heading out the situation reverts.

The day Gibraltar becomes a part of the UK, under the same laws and taxes, etc. the Spanish foreign minister will pop out the cava.

NI, OTOH is fully part of the UK, so whatever rules are put in place for the UK will work for them.

Here's the circle that the UK wants squared. Good luck.
Image


For clarity

British Overseas Territory = Gibraltar

These territories do not form part of the United Kingdom

The British Overseas Territories (BOT) or alternatively, United Kingdom's Overseas Territories (UKOTs), are 14 territories under the jurisdiction and sovereignty of the United Kingdom. They are the parts of the British Empire that have not been granted independence or have voted to remain British territories.
The average EU official - he has the organising ability of the Italians, the flexibility of the Germans and the modesty of the French. And that's topped up by the imagination of the Belgians, the generosity of the Dutch.
 
UltimoTiger777
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Re: Brexit - EU position

Thu Nov 23, 2017 11:52 am

No one in Spain seriously thinks Gibraltar will accept any change to their status and giving any form of power over them to Spain after how Spain dealt with Catalonia do they?
 
Olddog
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Re: Brexit - EU position

Thu Nov 23, 2017 12:05 pm

No but they want to cut access to that tax scam territory.
 
UltimoTiger777
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Re: Brexit - EU position

Thu Nov 23, 2017 12:17 pm

Maybe if Spain had a lower rate of taxation .............
 
JJJ
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Re: Brexit - EU position

Thu Nov 23, 2017 12:28 pm

par13del wrote:
JJJ wrote:
Because Gibraltar is not an integral part of the UK, but rather one of those funny bits scattered around the globe.

There are some who would disagree with this statement, but fine, it is what it is.


It is a simplification, but from the Spanish perspective that's just how it is.

At the time of accesion Spain had to acknowledge that Gibraltar had acceded via an obscure article that although generic ("European territories for whose external relations a Member State is responsible") in practice it only applies to Gibraltar.

Now the UK finds itself negotiating with the EU, but since the UK is out of the EU that article no longer applies and Gibraltar will need additional accomodation (over which Spain will have a veto).

@UltimoTiger777 do you really think taxation works the same for a 47 million country than for a 30-something thousand territory? Why doesn't the UK have the same tax policy than the Channel islands or the Isle of Man? Same applies here.

This is not a hearts and minds issue, Gibraltarians are strongly opposed to the idea of shared sovereignty or otherwise dillution of their Britishness. It is their prerogative, but don't count on hurting the Spanish tax base for that. If the UK is OK with siphoning tax revenue to a tiny territory in the Med all the best for them, but don't count on Spain to support it.

There's a reason why a territory with some of the most nationalist British people living in them voted 96% remain. They know they're in for a hard ride and that London will throw them under the bus if need be.
 
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par13del
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Re: Brexit - EU position

Thu Nov 23, 2017 12:37 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
Right now i can toss a billion EUR in the trunk of my car and drive it over to a dutch bank, where i need to explain how i got my hand on that much cash, but that is about it. The limit for unchecked cash transfers in and out the EU is different.
best regards
Thomas

I like your analogy because it raises questions about so called Tax Havens and Europeans and the EU way of dealing with them, for example, why does your government not question you about removing the billion EUR from your account and what you intend to use it for, if you say it is not their business then if you put it in a Dutch Bank that is still not their business. Since you were putting it in your bank legally one would assume that you already paid tax on it.

Now on the Dutch side, as long as you are not using the money to fund a drug enterprise why should they care where you got the money, that should be the domain of the bank in your home country who had your money on deposit gaining interest for you and them while using it to bolster their investment funds.

The issue is that as long as the funds are leaving the EU / Europe via your banking system that is the time when you should gather all manner of information on the money, not wait until it is deposited in a foreign country then tell them that it is their responsibility to report to you on all their nationals who have put money into their banking system.

So the threat that exist now is that if the UK does not want to be blacklisted by the EU they must continue to operate in the prescribed manner as if they were still a member, as mentioned in this thread, the Netherlands are allowed to be a Tax Haven because they were already members and must be dealt with differently.

The funny thing is that the UK has been going along with all the Tax Haven initiatives as it relates to some of it territories far away - cue Bermuda, Cayman, Turks and Caicos and a bit less gung ho on those nearby, let's see what happens if and when they actually leave the EU.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Brexit - EU position

Thu Nov 23, 2017 12:55 pm

par13del wrote:
why does your government not question you about removing the billion EUR from your account and what you intend to use it for, if you say it is not their business then if you put it in a Dutch Bank that is still not their business..


the four pillars of the common market, that is one of them.

best regards
Thomas
NIKV69 wrote:
The race is over. Moore has over 50% of the vote with just about half the votes in. Jones can't overcome that. McConnell has 10am meeting tomorrow so they can get this guy removed. At least the seat stays Republican. That is the important thing.
:D
 
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par13del
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Re: Brexit - EU position

Thu Nov 23, 2017 1:25 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
the four pillars of the common market, that is one of them.

best regards
Thomas

...and what does the Bahamas, Antigua, Barbados and other independent countries who the EU have classed as Tax Havens and take off on have to do with the 4 pillars, heck some of us have very little trade with the UK and the EU.
No issues with the EU applying those conditions to jurisdictions under EU and their members control, but bully tactics to independent countries is another story.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit - EU position

Thu Nov 23, 2017 4:58 pm

par13del wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
Right now i can toss a billion EUR in the trunk of my car and drive it over to a dutch bank, where i need to explain how i got my hand on that much cash, but that is about it. The limit for unchecked cash transfers in and out the EU is different.
best regards
Thomas

I like your analogy because it raises questions about so called Tax Havens and Europeans and the EU way of dealing with them, for example, why does your government not question you about removing the billion EUR from your account and what you intend to use it for, if you say it is not their business then if you put it in a Dutch Bank that is still not their business. Since you were putting it in your bank legally one would assume that you already paid tax on it.

Now on the Dutch side, as long as you are not using the money to fund a drug enterprise why should they care where you got the money, that should be the domain of the bank in your home country who had your money on deposit gaining interest for you and them while using it to bolster their investment funds.

The issue is that as long as the funds are leaving the EU / Europe via your banking system that is the time when you should gather all manner of information on the money, not wait until it is deposited in a foreign country then tell them that it is their responsibility to report to you on all their nationals who have put money into their banking system.

So the threat that exist now is that if the UK does not want to be blacklisted by the EU they must continue to operate in the prescribed manner as if they were still a member, as mentioned in this thread, the Netherlands are allowed to be a Tax Haven because they were already members and must be dealt with differently.

The funny thing is that the UK has been going along with all the Tax Haven initiatives as it relates to some of it territories far away - cue Bermuda, Cayman, Turks and Caicos and a bit less gung ho on those nearby, let's see what happens if and when they actually leave the EU.


Taxes are not the domain of the EU, except for some very narrowly described ones. Tax heavens are created because of the differences in taxation, so this isn't an issue when Brittian is leaving the EU. The issue is however, if Brittian leaves, they are no longer included in the EU banking system and thus the free flow of capital between the EU countries. This means it can be restricted, for instance, Dutch Pension funds can't leave their money control in the hands of British banks in London, they need to have it within the EU.

If you want to transport large amounts of cash within the EU, that is indeed allowed. Normally the cash is restricted to a few 1.000 EURO's. In Thomas example, Dutch Banks are required to inform the authorities of any unusual cash drop-offs, in this case, 1bn would probably be seen as excessive (25.000euro's is the limit), so the authorities have to be informed and our Thomas will be questioned by the authorities where this money came from and without any good explanation it will be confiscated and our Thomas here has a problem. But that is a Dutch rule and Dutch law, it has nothing to do with money being transferred from a German bank - in cash - to a Dutch bank if I were to buy a car with 50.000EURO's in cash, I would have to answer to the authorities as well, it is an anti-black money thing not a tax thing.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
LJ
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Re: Brexit - EU position

Thu Nov 23, 2017 7:25 pm

par13del wrote:
So the threat that exist now is that if the UK does not want to be blacklisted by the EU they must continue to operate in the prescribed manner as if they were still a member, as mentioned in this thread, the Netherlands are allowed to be a Tax Haven because they were already members and must be dealt with differently.


Not many EU ministers of Finance like the Dutch regulation, hence why the new government is taking out a few tax loopholes (it won't take long before the "Dutch sandwich" is not possible in many circumstances). I don't know your source but saying that the EU is not doing anything against the Dutch is not the truth. However, due to the corporate structure and the tax treaties the Dutch have, some loopholes will not be closed soon.
 
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par13del
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Re: Brexit - EU position

Thu Nov 23, 2017 8:25 pm

LJ wrote:
I don't know your source but saying that the EU is not doing anything against the Dutch is not the truth. However, due to the corporate structure and the tax treaties the Dutch have, some loopholes will not be closed soon.

The However section of your response is where something has to be done, independent countries are being forced to put new laws in place or risk being put on blacklist with all the associated penalties, however, the Dutch being a member of the EU must be treated differently, there are rules, laws etc that must be followed.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit - EU position

Fri Nov 24, 2017 12:09 am

LJ wrote:
par13del wrote:
So the threat that exist now is that if the UK does not want to be blacklisted by the EU they must continue to operate in the prescribed manner as if they were still a member, as mentioned in this thread, the Netherlands are allowed to be a Tax Haven because they were already members and must be dealt with differently.


Not many EU ministers of Finance like the Dutch regulation, hence why the new government is taking out a few tax loopholes (it won't take long before the "Dutch sandwich" is not possible in many circumstances). I don't know your source but saying that the EU is not doing anything against the Dutch is not the truth. However, due to the corporate structure and the tax treaties the Dutch have, some loopholes will not be closed soon.


Much more the Dutch themselves feel it is unfair. Why should a local coffee bar pay their taxes while Star bucks aren't? It does something with the willingness of people to pay taxes and contribute in that way to society at large.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
tommy1808
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Re: Brexit - EU position

Fri Nov 24, 2017 6:03 am

par13del wrote:
LJ wrote:
I don't know your source but saying that the EU is not doing anything against the Dutch is not the truth. However, due to the corporate structure and the tax treaties the Dutch have, some loopholes will not be closed soon.

The However section of your response is where something has to be done, independent countries are being forced to put new laws in place or risk being put on blacklist with all the associated penalties, however, the Dutch being a member of the EU must be treated differently, there are rules, laws etc that must be followed.


that is along the lines of "no shirt - no service", nobody is forced to do anything.

best regards
Thomas
NIKV69 wrote:
The race is over. Moore has over 50% of the vote with just about half the votes in. Jones can't overcome that. McConnell has 10am meeting tomorrow so they can get this guy removed. At least the seat stays Republican. That is the important thing.
:D
 
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Aesma
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Re: Brexit - EU position

Fri Nov 24, 2017 6:23 am

Exactly, fiscal paradises can stay fiscal paradises, they just can't continue to take money from EU entities, that they wouldn't take anyway if they weren't fiscal paradises in the first place.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
Olddog
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Re: Brexit - EU position

Fri Nov 24, 2017 7:24 am

The problem that will need to be addressed is that you need unanimity to change a fiscal rule. So that problem will be a priority after brexit.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit - EU position

Fri Nov 24, 2017 12:40 pm

Olddog wrote:
The problem that will need to be addressed is that you need unanimity to change a fiscal rule.


You have to change the treaties, the tax domain isn't included in the current treaties.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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par13del
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Re: Brexit - EU position

Fri Nov 24, 2017 1:46 pm

Aesma wrote:
Exactly, fiscal paradises can stay fiscal paradises, they just can't continue to take money from EU entities, that they wouldn't take anyway if they weren't fiscal paradises in the first place.

The issue here is that the days of money leaving European countries by boats in the dead of night or airplanes like rendition died centuries ago, money is leaving nations via their own banking systems, but rather than asking questions then, we wait until it is placed elsewhere where you can obtain information that you cannot do locally because of privacy laws.
No different than all the Money Laundering initiatives that were put in place to move the activity from the Caribbean and South / Central America during what some called the roaring 80's, I expect the Tax initiatives etc will follow in the same vein.
We all know that money laundering is still taking place and we can be sure that tax shelters will not go away, they will just be relocated.
 
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par13del
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Re: Brexit - EU position

Fri Nov 24, 2017 1:59 pm

Dutchy wrote:
Much more the Dutch themselves feel it is unfair. Why should a local coffee bar pay their taxes while Star bucks aren't? It does something with the willingness of people to pay taxes and contribute in that way to society at large.

One does have to wonder how those foreign companies were able to force countries to set up business and grant themselves the ability not to pay local taxes, much more aggravating is the fact that those companies set up shop years after politicians put taxes on the local people, what makes foreign companies better than local citizens, folks just do not pay attention to such issues when they go to the polls.
 
Olddog
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Re: Brexit - EU position

Fri Nov 24, 2017 3:37 pm

Theses rules exist for the same reasons than the GOP is trying to vote a totally awkward budget that only favour the richest and the biggest companies : they have the money to pay for the best lawyers and lobbying...
 
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TheBowser
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Re: Brexit - EU position

Sat Nov 25, 2017 11:14 am

Why do some Brits believe that the United Kingdom is not part of Europe? If they aren't part of Europe, then what are they part of? I know of a few British people who believe this strongly.
 
Olddog
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Re: Brexit - EU position

Sat Nov 25, 2017 11:46 am

They want to fight with Porto Rico for the next US state contest :)
 
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BobPatterson
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Re: Brexit - EU position

Sat Nov 25, 2017 5:43 pm

TheBowser wrote:
Why do some Brits believe that the United Kingdom is not part of Europe? If they aren't part of Europe, then what are they part of? I know of a few British people who believe this strongly.

Perhaps they think that being part of the British Commonwealth of Nations is quite enough and that national mongrelization is not desirable.
Facts are fragile things. Treat them with care. Sources are important. Alternative facts do not exist.
 
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Dano1977
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Re: Brexit - EU position

Sat Nov 25, 2017 10:35 pm

TheBowser wrote:
Why do some Brits believe that the United Kingdom is not part of Europe? If they aren't part of Europe, then what are they part of? I know of a few British people who believe this strongly.



It's the "Island Syndrome"
The average EU official - he has the organising ability of the Italians, the flexibility of the Germans and the modesty of the French. And that's topped up by the imagination of the Belgians, the generosity of the Dutch.
 
UltimoTiger777
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Re: Brexit - EU position

Sat Nov 25, 2017 11:31 pm

TheBowser wrote:
Why do some Brits believe that the United Kingdom is not part of Europe? If they aren't part of Europe, then what are they part of? I know of a few British people who believe this strongly.


Because the word "Europe" has become synonymous with "European Union" to some people.
 
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par13del
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Re: Brexit - EU position

Sun Nov 26, 2017 12:23 am

Bingo, I think that is the view in the UK, in Europe they mostly don't see any difference between the two.
The funny thing is, that in the UK, government is actively involved in all facets of life from central government to local councils, perhaps they just have a phobia for foreigners telling them what to do.
One would have thought after they built the chunnel the isolationist would have been diminished, however............
 
mmo
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Re: Brexit - EU position

Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:02 am

According to press reports, the divorce bill has been settled.

Now if they can resolve the ROI/NI border issue....

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... reach-57bn
If we weren't all crazy we'd all go insane!
 
Olddog
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Re: Brexit - EU position

Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:25 am

For now it is just a rumour coming from the UK side. From a politico article today:

A senior EU Brexit official said: “No agreement has been presented to member states. Agreement has to be on paper, not in papers. We let the negotiators do their work and can’t comment [on] rumors.”

Another senior EU official said: “No, we have no comment to make on this.”

A senior diplomat from one of the founding EU countries said “it’s something fed to the press that has not been translated yet into a negotiating position.”


Anyway, I still think the money is not a problem, the border is.
 
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par13del
Posts: 7423
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2005 9:14 pm

Re: Brexit - EU position

Wed Nov 29, 2017 11:16 am

The border at present is Ireland's priority, the others against Brexit are still working on the transition period and the money, if those fail, they will swing to the border. As some have already stated, the relationship between the parties in relation to Ireland has always been special even before the advent of the EU, it will therefore be up to the EU to decide how much they will let that derail talks, so far in public offerings, they have said it is up to the UK to propose a solution.
I suspect those Brexiters who do not agree on the amount of the divorce bill will be pulling for Ireland to veto the start of negotiations.
 
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Dutchy
Topic Author
Posts: 4046
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: Brexit - EU position

Wed Nov 29, 2017 12:17 pm

Apparently, they reached an agreement on the deforce bill: between 45 - 55bn Euro. Next the border issue and the issue what to do with EU nations living in Brittian and Brittians living within the EU.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
mmo
Posts: 1191
Joined: Thu Apr 18, 2013 3:04 pm

Re: Brexit - EU position

Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:41 pm

[quote="par13del"] it will therefore be up to the EU to decide how much they will let that derail talks, so far in public offerings, they have said it is up to the UK to propose a solution.
[quote]

I think the EU has made it very clear what their position is. Why should that derail the talks when the UK refuses to consider anything other than a hard Brexit. There are plenty of options the EU has suggested and all have been turned down by the UK. You seem to be confused as the UK was the one who made the decision to leave.
If we weren't all crazy we'd all go insane!
 
mmo
Posts: 1191
Joined: Thu Apr 18, 2013 3:04 pm

Re: Brexit - EU position

Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:59 pm

mmo wrote:
par13del wrote:
it will therefore be up to the EU to decide how much they will let that derail talks, so far in public offerings, they have said it is up to the UK to propose a solution.
.


I think the EU has made it very clear what their position is. Why should that derail the talks when the UK refuses to consider anything other than a hard Brexit. There are plenty of options the EU has suggested and all have been turned down by the UK. You seem to be confused as the UK was the one who made the decision to leave.
If we weren't all crazy we'd all go insane!
 
mmo
Posts: 1191
Joined: Thu Apr 18, 2013 3:04 pm

Re: Brexit - EU position

Wed Nov 29, 2017 2:00 pm

mmo wrote:
mmo wrote:
par13del wrote:
it will therefore be up to the EU to decide how much they will let that derail talks, so far in public offerings, they have said it is up to the UK to propose a solution.
.


I think the EU has made it very clear what their position is. Why should that derail the talks when the UK refuses to consider anything other than a hard Brexit. There are plenty of options the EU has suggested and all have been turned down by the UK. You seem to be confused as the UK was the one who made the decision to leave.
If we weren't all crazy we'd all go insane!
 
vc10
Posts: 1396
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2001 4:13 am

Re: Brexit - EU position

Wed Nov 29, 2017 3:51 pm

mmo wrote:
mmo wrote:
mmo wrote:


I think the EU has made it very clear what their position is. Why should that derail the talks when the UK refuses to consider anything other than a hard Brexit. There are plenty of options the EU has suggested and all have been turned down by the UK. You seem to be confused as the UK was the one who made the decision to leave.


I wonder if, just for my benefit, you could tell me what some of these other options were.which did not involve the UK having to pay a huge sum of money to the EU so as to allow their companies to trade with the UK

As for Northern Ireland we offer them a vote on staying with the UK or leaving, but either way would seem to require a hard border. If they leave it would only be after Eire agrees to take on responsibility for pension payments for all those living in Northern Island, offers a fair payment for assets in N.I. which will be transferred to Eire, and also accepts the end of the 1922 agreement . which allows free movement between Eire and the UK

Hard Brexit has never been the first choice of the, but rather the last choice . The UK just wants to trade with the EU and does not want to get involved with all the political
jurisdiction that goes along with being a member of the EU,

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