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Dutchy wrote:There was a report by the economic bureau of a Dutch bank on the matter of the Brexit and the economic effect. It said: -/- 10.000euro's per working person for the Dutch with a hard Brexit, till 3.000euro's with a much softer Brexit or even remain after all (for the Britts themselves 13.000euro's). it isn't a matter of sitting back, it does touch other countries. So yeah, thanks my Brittish friends.
Dutchy wrote:There was a report by the economic bureau of a Dutch bank on the matter of the Brexit and the economic effect. It said: -/- 10.000euro's per working person for the Dutch with a hard Brexit, till 3.000euro's with a much softer Brexit or even remain after all (for the Britts themselves 13.000euro's). it isn't a matter of sitting back, it does touch other countries. So yeah, thanks my Brittish friends.
ElPistolero wrote:1) transfer some of the external costs back by turning the screw hard when the Brits come looking for trade deals.
ElPistolero wrote:
I particularly enjoyed stumbling upon an a.net poster (a Brexiteer IIRC) getting mocked and laughed at in the pro-Brexit CH for pointing out the less positive implications of a cliff edge Brexit on aviation. I suspect said poster realizes his brothers in arms really don't understand what they signed up for.
Dutchy wrote:There was a report by the economic bureau of a Dutch bank on the matter of the Brexit and the economic effect. It said: -/- 10.000euro's per working person for the Dutch with a hard Brexit, till 3.000euro's with a much softer Brexit or even remain after all (for the Britts themselves 13.000euro's). it isn't a matter of sitting back, it does touch other countries. So yeah, thanks my Brittish friends.
UltimoTiger777 wrote:Time to make a deal then isn't it? Both sides can swallow their pride and reach an amicable settlement. Both sides's hardliners will bitch and moan, everyone else will get on with life.
Dano1977 wrote:Dutchy wrote:There was a report by the economic bureau of a Dutch bank on the matter of the Brexit and the economic effect. It said: -/- 10.000euro's per working person for the Dutch with a hard Brexit, till 3.000euro's with a much softer Brexit or even remain after all (for the Britts themselves 13.000euro's). it isn't a matter of sitting back, it does touch other countries. So yeah, thanks my Brittish friends.
Any reports on what happens to the Euro zone economies when the ECB eventually stop with the 60billion Euro a month of Quantitative Easing? (Printing Money)
I'll hazard a guess.... Deflation.
ElPistolero wrote:Dutchy wrote:There was a report by the economic bureau of a Dutch bank on the matter of the Brexit and the economic effect. It said: -/- 10.000euro's per working person for the Dutch with a hard Brexit, till 3.000euro's with a much softer Brexit or even remain after all (for the Britts themselves 13.000euro's). it isn't a matter of sitting back, it does touch other countries. So yeah, thanks my Brittish friends.
It's a sunk cost.
The effects of a hard Brexit will adversely affect every major economy. That's he nature of a global economy. The Brits advocating it want to do as they wish, and if that hurts others, too bad. Either they're too thick to realize the broader implications of what they're doing, or they understand it but don't care.
What can anyone do about it? The only things left to do now are:
1) transfer some of the external costs back by turning the screw hard when the Brits come looking for trade deals.
2) sit back and watch it unfold. And offset your own country's suffering with the inevitable schadenfreude of watching the perpetrator exercise their sovereign right to inflict absurd self harm.
Jeremy Corbyn has a shot at becoming PM. Think about that.
Dutchy wrote:Dano1977 wrote:Dutchy wrote:There was a report by the economic bureau of a Dutch bank on the matter of the Brexit and the economic effect. It said: -/- 10.000euro's per working person for the Dutch with a hard Brexit, till 3.000euro's with a much softer Brexit or even remain after all (for the Britts themselves 13.000euro's). it isn't a matter of sitting back, it does touch other countries. So yeah, thanks my Brittish friends.
Any reports on what happens to the Euro zone economies when the ECB eventually stop with the 60billion Euro a month of Quantitative Easing? (Printing Money)
I'll hazard a guess.... Deflation.
Off topic. (and the ECB is slowly stopping this).
Do you have any opinion on the report?
Dano1977 wrote:Dutchy wrote:Dano1977 wrote:
Any reports on what happens to the Euro zone economies when the ECB eventually stop with the 60billion Euro a month of Quantitative Easing? (Printing Money)
I'll hazard a guess.... Deflation.
Off topic. (and the ECB is slowly stopping this).
Do you have any opinion on the report?
I think we have seen that European countries want to do a trade deal with the U.K. A leaked report from a German Ministry basically says a trade deal must be done, otherwise Germany loses one of it's biggest export markets (biggest in Europe).
The only stumbling block is Brussels, who seem intent on extracting as much money as they possibly can. (We should pay what we agreed too, but not above or beyond that unless stipulated in separate negotiations after trade deal has been concluded)
So in finishing. Nobody is going to win out of Brexit, Everybody is going to feel short to medium term pain. But leaving means Europe loses it's biggest thorn in closer integration and the European Army idea, and the U.K. gets what it voted for.
Dano1977 wrote:And the off topic elephant in room, which you expertly avoided. Once the ECB stops QE, I think the Eurozone will go into Deflation and things won't look so rosy.
Olddog wrote:AH Seahawk you are faking a russian troll today?
UltimoTiger777 wrote:Time to make a deal then isn't it? Both sides can swallow their pride and reach an amicable settlement. Both sides's hardliners will bitch and moan, everyone else will get on with life.
UltimoTiger777 wrote:If by CH you mean ConservativeHome then the poster in question is no doubt me. I have truly hit new heights of internet stardom for myself.
...
Time to make a deal then isn't it? Both sides can swallow their pride and reach an amicable settlement. Both sides's hardliners will bitch and moan, everyone else will get on with life.
Dano1977 wrote:I think we have seen that European countries want to do a trade deal with the U.K. A leaked report from a German Ministry basically says a trade deal must be done, otherwise Germany loses one of it's biggest export markets (biggest in Europe).
Dutchy wrote:their current position: no downside, all the benefits,
Dutchy wrote:Sure there are downsides being within the EU, but there are more upsides to it.
Tugger wrote:Dutchy wrote:Sure there are downsides being within the EU, but there are more upsides to it.
OK, but you did say "no downsides". What downsides do you see? Just curious, not trying to pick a fight.
Tugg
Dutchy wrote:where did I say the EU has no downsides? I said that is more or less the current negotiation position of London: we want all the benefits (access to the internal market) and no downsides (no regulations, no freedom of movement, no money to the EU etc.). And that is a ridiculous position.
I see all kind of downsides, unfair competition in the labor market, people whom are exploited for instance. And more in general, what happens to be good for the EU, doesn't necessarily be good for The Netherlands, some rules, some regulations etc. So lot's of things but in general more benefits than downsides.
Dutchy wrote:The Brits have to choose, what level they want to participate, their current position: no downside, all the benefits, isn't attainable. There is a whole pallet available for them to choose from.
Aesma wrote:The Brexiters' main complaint was/is about immigration.
Dano1977 wrote:Can we stop, painting all brexiteers as anti immigration. Some of us are more than the neanderthal knuckle draggers.
It's akin to me saying all french males go around on a bicycle wearing a stripey jumper, beret and with a string of onions around the neck.
Olddog wrote:Dano1977 wrote:Can we stop, painting all brexiteers as anti immigration. Some of us are more than the neanderthal knuckle draggers.
It's akin to me saying all french males go around on a bicycle wearing a stripey jumper, beret and with a string of onions around the neck.
Yes and the fact that hate crime jumped in UK is a fantasy....
Tugger wrote:Dutchy wrote:their current position: no downside, all the benefits,
I think this is one of the problems in general with the discussion, some people think there was no downside to the original situation. There obviously were "downsides" to the deal or we would not be where we are and people should be able to and willing to acknowledge that. Essentially nations give up portions of their sovereignty in pacts like the EU, and that is as it is agreed to be. But that does not mean there is no downside to that. Downsides can be individualistic and specific, benefits can be general and broad, overall. But there are still downsides.
Is withdrawing a net benefit? Only time will tell, there will be downsides no doubt, they will be different downsides, but there will also be benefits as well. The EU supporters seem to fall for the same line that got many in Britain to vote for Brexit. That there is no downside to being beholden to and and bound by the rules and requirements of the EU governing structure. Enough voters in Britain believed something similar, they were told there would be no downside to leaving. It is a false position for either side to take.
Tugg
Olddog wrote:the hate we can read on most comments sections are just sad.
Olddog wrote:
Yes and the fact that hate crime jumped in UK is a fantasy....
Dano1977 wrote:Aesma wrote:The Brexiters' main complaint was/is about immigration.
Can we stop, painting all brexiteers as anti immigration. Some of us are more than the neanderthal knuckle draggers.
Dano1977 wrote:So hate crime now is just crimes against immigrants?
Dano1977 wrote:I think we have seen that European countries want to do a trade deal with the U.K. A leaked report from a German Ministry basically says a trade deal must be done, otherwise Germany loses one of it's biggest export markets (biggest in Europe).
The only stumbling block is Brussels, who seem intent on extracting as much money as they possibly can. (We should pay what we agreed too, but not above or beyond that unless stipulated in separate negotiations after trade deal has been concluded)
So in finishing. Nobody is going to win out of Brexit, Everybody is going to feel short to medium term pain. But leaving means Europe loses it's biggest thorn in closer integration and the European Army idea, and the U.K. gets what it voted for.
And the off topic elephant in room, which you expertly avoided. Once the ECB stops QE, I think the Eurozone will go into Deflation and things won't look so rosy.
UltimoTiger777 wrote:Olddog wrote:the hate we can read on most comments sections are just sad.
If you're using the internet comments on tabloid newspapers as an example........Well, maybe you should just buy a plane ticket and come here?
Olddog wrote:But UK already tried to build a free trade area in the sixties. To my knowledge it was not competitive against what the EU was building. And it is the UK who asked (begged ?) to join the EU.
The European Union treaty data database is in the public domain and is easily accessible online and the summary of agreements is listed here: http://ec.europa.eu/world/agreements/vi ... leID=76200.
You can see the agreements between the EU and the United States of America listed from page 322, and China from page 74.
par13del wrote:Olddog wrote:But UK already tried to build a free trade area in the sixties. To my knowledge it was not competitive against what the EU was building. And it is the UK who asked (begged ?) to join the EU.
...and now they want out so let them go...The biggest issue on the UK side are those elites who refuse to accept the will of 17+million folks who voted to leave.
par13del wrote:The biggest issue on the UK side are those elites who refuse to accept the will of 17+million folks who voted to leave. All the delays, changes in positions, stumbling blocks etc etc all have one thing in common, folks on the remain side wanting to do all they can to prevent a leave..
seahawk wrote:The vote was clear and leave means leave in every aspect.
ElPistolero wrote:Dano1977 wrote:So hate crime now is just crimes against immigrants?
Are you arguing that crimes against immigrants that are motivated by the fact that they are immigrants are not hate crimes?
Dano1977 wrote:ElPistolero wrote:Dano1977 wrote:So hate crime now is just crimes against immigrants?
Are you arguing that crimes against immigrants that are motivated by the fact that they are immigrants are not hate crimes?
No, I'm arguing that hate crimes covers a broad spectrum of crimes and not just those committed against immigrants, and it could be a whole host of other reasons why the figures have gone up?
seahawk wrote:The vote was clear and leave means leave in every aspect.
seahawk wrote:That is a British problem. The option was quite clear "Leave the European Union" - nothing said leaving a bit or partly or if is convenient.
Dano1977 wrote:
No, I'm arguing that hate crimes covers a broad spectrum of crimes and not just those committed against immigrants, and it could be a whole host of other reasons why the figures have gone up?
Dutchy wrote:seahawk wrote:That is a British problem. The option was quite clear "Leave the European Union" - nothing said leaving a bit or partly or if is convenient.
The other way around, nothing was said about what the future relationship with the EU should be. So they leave the EU, but the question is what now?