Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
wingman wrote:People democratically choosing a dictatorship, it has to be a first in modern history. how does one rationalize electing to live in a police state?
wingman wrote:People democratically choosing a dictatorship, it has to be a first in modern history. how does one rationalize electing to live in a police state?
Aesma wrote:Democracy almost made it.
THY748i wrote:There are many reports of irregularities out there, this cannot be the end.
Martin Niemöller wrote:
"First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out —
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out —
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out —
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me —
and there was no one left to speak for me."
Dutchy wrote:THY748i wrote:There are many reports of irregularities out there, this cannot be the end.
Since the Erdogan regime locked up numerous of officials, judges, media personal, teachers, layers, military personal, opposition leaders etc., whom is left to oppose the power of Erdogan? Whom even dares to?Martin Niemöller wrote:
"First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out —
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out —
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out —
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me —
and there was no one left to speak for me."
Dutchy wrote:Ok, the path chosen is clearly away from liberal democracy and more in the direction of an autocracy. At least it is clear that Erdogan / Turkey won't be joining the EU, so the EU cans stop shoveling money into that goal.
OA260 wrote:
Sure but the EU will still need to pump millions anyway because Mr Erdogan is blackmailing the EU otherwise he will Quote ''Flood the EU with refugees''.
Sad day for Turkey and as the results show Turkey is now a divided nation. Expect major bloodshed in the next decade or so. Worrying times ahead.
Kiwirob wrote:Th EU should call his bluff, grow a pair of balls and close off the EU border to Turkey, any refugee who tries to cross gets turned away, if it takes force to do this then so be it.
Kiwirob wrote:OA260 wrote:
Sure but the EU will still need to pump millions anyway because Mr Erdogan is blackmailing the EU otherwise he will Quote ''Flood the EU with refugees''.
Sad day for Turkey and as the results show Turkey is now a divided nation. Expect major bloodshed in the next decade or so. Worrying times ahead.
Th EU should call his bluff, grow a pair of balls and close off the EU border to Turkey, any refugee who tries to cross gets turned away, if it takes force to do this then so be it.
blueflyer wrote:Even if the will was there, it isn't that easy. Some Greek islands are so close to Turkey there is barely enough room to sail a corvette and fire at would-be migrants crossing on just about anything that floats. Before Turkey agreed to stop departures, Greek islands were overrun by refugees floating over on a daily basis.
The EU is always keen to be the "reasonable" partner. If they did have the will to play hardball, they'd threaten to close EU borders to all Turk citizens if Erdogan does try to flood the EU with refugees. To be fair, though, Turkey is hosting millions of refugees for reason no other than geography, and if the EU is unable to settle its refugees, Turkey cannot be expected to perform any better.
pvjin wrote:I'm starting to like Erdogan, he can't be all bad when eurocrats hate him so much. At least he has respect for his country, its traditions and people unlike our leaders.
Perhaps by the end of the century Islamist Turkey and the European Union will be good friends again, after demographic change has filled Western Europe with people who share similar values to those of Erdogan.
Francoflier wrote:So Erdogan is slowly achieving his goal of becoming Turkey's hard-lined, opposition and free speech-destroying, islamist dictator, and amid global criticism and worry about Turkey's future, you'll never guess who personally called Erdogan to congratulate him on his win...
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39626116
Is it because these 2 men share an equal disrespect for democratic values and the same love for authoritarian regimes, or is it because Trump has businesses in Turkey and wants to retain the favors of its new dictator?
We might never know...
pvjin wrote:I'm starting to like Erdogan, he can't be all bad when eurocrats hate him so much. At least he has respect for his country, its traditions and people unlike our leaders.
Perhaps by the end of the century Islamist Turkey and the European Union will be good friends again, after demographic change has filled Western Europe with people who share similar values to those of Erdogan.
helhem wrote:The Eu and eurocrats are one the most corrupt and condescending groups on the planet. Even EUrophiles agree on this.
wingman wrote:People democratically choosing a dictatorship, it has to be a first in modern history. how does one rationalize electing to live in a police state?
DocLightning wrote:wingman wrote:People democratically choosing a dictatorship, it has to be a first in modern history. how does one rationalize electing to live in a police state?
Hardly. How do you think the Nazis rose to power?
PanHAM wrote:How can a Population be so stupid, it has been done before, there are plenty of bad examples in history but the demagogic trick works over and over again. Unfortunately there ae always more sheep than foxes.
Aesma wrote:Nobody's assuming that. It was clearly not free and fair.
OA412 wrote:lack of education, or both.
OA412 wrote:PanHAM wrote:How can a Population be so stupid, it has been done before, there are plenty of bad examples in history but the demagogic trick works over and over again. Unfortunately there ae always more sheep than foxes.
Desperation, lack of education, or both. Also, we're assuming this was a free and fair election. I think that remains to be seen.
pvjin wrote:OA412 wrote:PanHAM wrote:How can a Population be so stupid, it has been done before, there are plenty of bad examples in history but the demagogic trick works over and over again. Unfortunately there ae always more sheep than foxes.
Desperation, lack of education, or both. Also, we're assuming this was a free and fair election. I think that remains to be seen.
Somehow very high percentage of Turkish nationals in the EU also support Erdogan, despite the fact they are likely to have higher education on average than their countrymen in Turkey.
I don't see desperation and lack of education here. What I see is a conflict of values. Not everybody supports western ideals of democracy, human rights and freedom of speech. Political Islam is now rising also in Europe thanks to migration and high birth rate in Islamic families, and eventually it will affect our governments also. I would be highly surprised if there are many secular Western European democracies left by 2150.
OA260 wrote:I was reading that many women in rural Turkish towns and villages were told to vote Yes by their husbands and Male figures in their families and communities.
pvjin wrote:I'm starting to like Erdogan, he can't be all bad when eurocrats hate him so much. At least he has respect for his country, its traditions and people unlike our leaders.
pvjin wrote:OA412 wrote:PanHAM wrote:How can a Population be so stupid, it has been done before, there are plenty of bad examples in history but the demagogic trick works over and over again. Unfortunately there ae always more sheep than foxes.
Desperation, lack of education, or both. Also, we're assuming this was a free and fair election. I think that remains to be seen.
Somehow very high percentage of Turkish nationals in the EU also support Erdogan, despite the fact they are likely to have higher education on average than their countrymen in Turkey.
I don't see desperation and lack of education here. What I see is a conflict of values. Not everybody supports western ideals of democracy, human rights and freedom of speech. Political Islam is now rising also in Europe thanks to migration and high birth rate in Islamic families, and eventually it will affect our governments also. I would be highly surprised if there are many secular Western European democracies left by 2150.
anshabhi wrote:So we have another dictatorship now.
A modern & progressive country, all set to be ruined.
WildcatYXU wrote:[
What is really sad is a huge support for Mr. Erdogan and his constitutional changes among Turkish expats in Germany and France.
But then, why an I surprised? There is a lot of hard core commies among our '68 - ers.
LCKip wrote:For the Europeam Union it's good news although nobody will confirm this. Good news because this result means that Turkey will not be allowed to become a EU member.
Kiwirob wrote:Th EU should call his bluff, grow a pair of balls and close off the EU border to Turkey, any refugee who tries to cross gets turned away, if it takes force to do this then so be it.
pvjin wrote:Political Islam is now rising also in Europe thanks to migration and high birth rate in Islamic families, and eventually it will affect our governments also. I would be highly surprised if there are many secular Western European democracies left by 2150.
pvjin wrote:What I see is a conflict of values. Not everybody supports western ideals of democracy, human rights and freedom of speech.
Aesma wrote:EU membership never had a good chance of happening, but now it's only a Turkish talking point, in the EU it's like if you were suggesting Australia was going to join. Australia would have a better chance, actually.
The real question is trade. Will trade continue to thrive between Turkey and the EU ?
anrec80 wrote:It was exactly the vocabulary that has been used when Western countries dismantled statehood and thrown into poverty and civil wars even big countries and whole regions (Yugoslavia, Iraq, recently Ukraine and whole North Africa/Middle East). And hence the rest of the world sees this and has their own associations.