Kiwirob
Posts: 10422
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

Re: Different Religions, Same Holiday

Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:22 pm

BobPatterson wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
A few years back my unmarried brother in law had his bastard daughter baptised by a gay female priest, which is a whole bunch of wrong according to the people who wrote book.


You manage to pack a whole lot of tension into a single sentence.

Is the daughter of your unmarried brother-in-law also the daughter of your unmarried sister? Just seeking clarity.


My wife's brother Bob. My wife is the only one of her siblings to have had children whilst married.
 
zrs70
Posts: 3420
Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2000 4:08 am

Re: Different Religions, Same Holiday

Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:08 pm

So many blanket statements that n this thread.

Religion encompasses so many schools of thought. Not all religious people are fanatics. Not all atheists avoid being members of religious institutions.

Rabbi David Wolfe one wrote:

Theology is what we believe.
Spirituality is what we believe.
Religion is what we do.

Makes a lot of sense to me.
18 year airliners.net vet! 2000-2017
 
zrs70
Posts: 3420
Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2000 4:08 am

Re: Different Religions, Same Holiday

Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:11 pm

So many blanket statements that n this thread.

Religion encompasses so many schools of thought. Not all religious people are fanatics. Not all atheists avoid being members of religious institutions.

Rabbi David Wolfe one wrote:

Theology is what we believe.
Spirituality is what we believe.
Religion is what we do.

Makes a lot of sense to me.
18 year airliners.net vet! 2000-2017
 
BobPatterson
Posts: 1060
Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2015 7:18 am

Re: Different Religions, Same Holiday

Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:23 pm

Dreadnought wrote:
BobPatterson wrote:
Your two statements are contradictory. How can you "suspect" what God approves or disapproves of based on the writings of men and women? The words of such men and women can only inform you as to what THEY think, not what God (if there is one) thinks.


Faith in the idea that what they wrote was inspired. If you don't believe that, fine. Do us all a favor and don't try to mock those who do.


I'm not mocking anyone. Do you disagree with my statement about dreams, visions and hallucinations? Paul admitted to it. I have no need to mock Paul. Muhammad had his dreams/visions too where he claimed repeatedly he was "told what to say."

Have you not read these scriptures?
Facts are fragile things. Treat them with care. Sources are important. Alternative facts do not exist.
 
seb146
Topic Author
Posts: 14816
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Different Religions, Same Holiday

Fri Apr 21, 2017 3:02 am

tommy1808 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
I asked for a history lesson on what I believe.
1)


If it was made up it is just as much a history lesson as why different holidays fall on the same day.
On top of that, you wouldn't allow that kind of reasoning in any other topic, where you'd rightfully insist to have a fact based discussion.
And of course, made up religions are very likely to be driven by convinience. Date conviniently is the same than a competing religion? Perfect reason to put it there. Just as it is unlikely that a savior God conviniently is named "savior" by his parents.

Best regards
Thomas


It is commonly believed that Jesus was born in August. But, the founders of the Christian church (those who lived well after Jesus) decided the easiest way to convert the masses was to move the birth of our savior to another time of year that more aligns with local tradition. That would be Winter Solstice. Easter is celebrated around the Spring Equinox. Rebirth and renewal.

Nowhere in this thread, and at no time in my life, have I ever demanded everyone celebrate Christian holidays. Some atheists are better Christians than some Christians.

Bacon was also banned by the old laws, as were women during that time of the month and women who sleep around. People get all worked up over us gays but say nothing about loose women, their monthly visitors, or bacon. Don't tell me I "pick and choose." I simply follow the teachings of my savior. Not his prophets. Matthew 22:36-40
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seb146
Topic Author
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Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Different Religions, Same Holiday

Fri Apr 21, 2017 3:07 am

Kiwirob wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:


So you're ignoring one of the most important people in the history of the Christian church! That makes you a hypocrite, you either believe in everything or you don't otherwise what is the point? And as I pointed out Jesus believed in marriage as men and woman and preached on it, which pretty much leads to the conclusion that man sleeping with man wouldn't have floated his boat, just like it hasn't been popular with most other people in th Bible.

You are a prime example of what is wrong with religion today, if you don't follow the belief system and rules laid out by the people who made up the stories you believe in then why bother, it's pretty clear that the people who made up god didn't make him up for people like you. You'd be better off becoming a pastafarian, they have no rules and regulations outlawing gays, they appear to be quite inclusive, they allow gay marriage and clergy.

A few years back my unmarried brother in law had his bastard daughter baptised by a gay female priest, which is a whole bunch of wrong according to the people who wrote book.


Historically, the Christian church was bad. The Inquisition, The Crusades, jailing scientists, and so forth. Because of the history, the church is trying to reach out and make their future better by including "bastards" and gays and transgender and women. True, some sects are still clinging to the old ways, but other sects see the flaws and are changing.
Patriotic and Proud Liberal
 
zrs70
Posts: 3420
Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2000 4:08 am

Re: Different Religions, Same Holiday

Fri Apr 21, 2017 4:10 am

I will also suggest that religion should not be about yesterday's answers but rather today's question
18 year airliners.net vet! 2000-2017
 
JJJ
Posts: 2364
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 5:12 pm

Re: Different Religions, Same Holiday

Fri Apr 21, 2017 6:41 am

zrs70 wrote:
.

Rabbi David Wolfe one wrote:

Theology is what we believe.
Spirituality is what we believe.
Religion is what we do.

Makes a lot of sense to me.


I'm taking note of that one.
 
Kiwirob
Posts: 10422
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

Re: Different Religions, Same Holiday

Fri Apr 21, 2017 6:51 am

seb146 wrote:

Historically, the Christian church was bad. The Inquisition, The Crusades, jailing scientists, and so forth. Because of the history, the church is trying to reach out and make their future better by including "bastards" and gays and transgender and women. True, some sects are still clinging to the old ways, but other sects see the flaws and are changing.


The church still is bad, all religions are, they are designed to prey on weak minded individuals.
 
flipdewaf
Posts: 1750
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 6:28 am

Re: Different Religions, Same Holiday

Fri Apr 21, 2017 9:18 am

seb146 wrote:
Historically, the Christian church was bad. The Inquisition, The Crusades, jailing scientists, and so forth. Because of the history, the church is trying to reach out and make their future better by including "bastards" and gays and transgender and women. True, some sects are still clinging to the old ways, but other sects see the flaws and are changing.

See is where I see religion as daft, people don't follow a religion blindly they choose the bits (either through literally picking and choosing or through following a particular religion or sect) that aligns with their values. Religious folk can only be said to drive their morals through religion if they follow it as a fundamentalist otherwise its just justification of their own morals which makes religion redundant as a moral guide.

Fred
Image
 
zrs70
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Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2000 4:08 am

Re: Different Religions, Same Holiday

Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:59 pm

zrs70 wrote:
So many blanket statements that n this thread.

Religion encompasses so many schools of thought. Not all religious people are fanatics. Not all atheists avoid being members of religious institutions.

Rabbi David Wolfe one wrote:

Theology is what we believe.
Spirituality is what we believe.
Religion is what we do.

Makes a lot of sense to me.


In my haste I misquoted this:

It's Rabbi David Wolpe. He wrote


Theology is what we believe.
Spirituality is what we feel.
Religion is what we do.
18 year airliners.net vet! 2000-2017
 
seb146
Topic Author
Posts: 14816
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Different Religions, Same Holiday

Sat Apr 22, 2017 5:31 am

flipdewaf wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Historically, the Christian church was bad. The Inquisition, The Crusades, jailing scientists, and so forth. Because of the history, the church is trying to reach out and make their future better by including "bastards" and gays and transgender and women. True, some sects are still clinging to the old ways, but other sects see the flaws and are changing.

See is where I see religion as daft, people don't follow a religion blindly they choose the bits (either through literally picking and choosing or through following a particular religion or sect) that aligns with their values. Religious folk can only be said to drive their morals through religion if they follow it as a fundamentalist otherwise its just justification of their own morals which makes religion redundant as a moral guide.

Fred


I see those people and I also see people who think religion has a place in individual's lives in this modern world. There are many of us who believe that religion has some pretty good life lessons but should not be rammed down people's throats nor should religion be used for a one-size-fits-all law. There are those of us who believe that Jesus or Shiva or Muhammed or Flying Spaghetti Monster can work with what they are given and are happy people are making an effort. I guess the best summation is: I love Jesus, just not His fan club.
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MaverickM11
Posts: 15557
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

Re: Different Religions, Same Holiday

Sat Apr 22, 2017 4:39 pm

Dreadnought wrote:
BobPatterson wrote:
Your two statements are contradictory. How can you "suspect" what God approves or disapproves of based on the writings of men and women? The words of such men and women can only inform you as to what THEY think, not what God (if there is one) thinks.


Faith in the idea that what they wrote was inspired. If you don't believe that, fine. Do us all a favor and don't try to mock those who do.

When 80% of evangelicals vote for Trump, it mocks itself. But why does religion deserve a safe space? We mock political choices, sports team allegiances, nationalities, race, gender, sexuality...why can't we do the same to one's choice of religion?
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
BobPatterson
Posts: 1060
Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2015 7:18 am

Re: Different Religions, Same Holiday

Sat Apr 22, 2017 5:11 pm

MaverickM11 wrote:
Dreadnought wrote:

Faith in the idea that what they wrote was inspired. If you don't believe that, fine. Do us all a favor and don't try to mock those who do.

When 80% of evangelicals vote for Trump, it mocks itself. But why does religion deserve a safe space? We mock political choices, sports team allegiances, nationalities, race, gender, sexuality...why can't we do the same to one's choice of religion?


For the very same reasons that you should not mock "nationalities, race, gender, sexuality....."

Mockery: insulting or contemptuous action or speech

I'd almost bet your mother taught you it wasn't nice.

I'd also bet that most of us, from time to time, forget what we were taught.
Facts are fragile things. Treat them with care. Sources are important. Alternative facts do not exist.
 
flipdewaf
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Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 6:28 am

Re: Different Religions, Same Holiday

Sat Apr 22, 2017 6:11 pm

BobPatterson wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
Dreadnought wrote:

Faith in the idea that what they wrote was inspired. If you don't believe that, fine. Do us all a favor and don't try to mock those who do.

When 80% of evangelicals vote for Trump, it mocks itself. But why does religion deserve a safe space? We mock political choices, sports team allegiances, nationalities, race, gender, sexuality...why can't we do the same to one's choice of religion?


For the very same reasons that you should not mock "nationalities, race, gender, sexuality....."

Mockery: insulting or contemptuous action or speech

I'd almost bet your mother taught you it wasn't nice.

I'd also bet that most of us, from time to time, forget what we were taught.

Nationality, race, gender and sexuality are not choices, religion is.

Fred
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MaverickM11
Posts: 15557
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

Re: Different Religions, Same Holiday

Sat Apr 22, 2017 6:56 pm

BobPatterson wrote:
For the very same reasons that you should not mock "nationalities, race, gender, sexuality....."

Mockery: insulting or contemptuous action or speech

I'd almost bet your mother taught you it wasn't nice.

I'd also bet that most of us, from time to time, forget what we were taught.

Mockery is not necessarily the right word, but rather 'strongly questioned'. However my mother put me in Sunday school, and if you can choke down the contradictory and nonsensical song and dance routine, it gets real hard to take moral lessons from an organization with a predilection for pedophilia. I quickly realized what a mockery the whole thing was, and that I had more morals in one toe than the entire organization put together. Fast forward to the christian right simultaneously banging on about pro life and traditional marriage, and falling over themselves to worship serial adulterer and sexual predator Trump who promises to bomb the sh!t out of everything and kill terrorists' families, again making a total mockery of their own tenets. So maybe mockery is the right word, and exactly what they deserve, and they have no one to blame but themselves.

flipdewaf wrote:
Nationality, race, gender and sexuality are not choices, religion is.

Fred

Ding ding ding! :checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark:
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
BobPatterson
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Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2015 7:18 am

Re: Different Religions, Same Holiday

Sat Apr 22, 2017 8:58 pm

flipdewaf wrote:
Nationality, race, gender and sexuality are not choices, religion is.


Relatively few people "choose" a religion, at least originally.

The vast majority are indoctrinated into a religion by parents and/or community.
Facts are fragile things. Treat them with care. Sources are important. Alternative facts do not exist.
 
seb146
Topic Author
Posts: 14816
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Different Religions, Same Holiday

Sat Apr 22, 2017 9:26 pm

BobPatterson wrote:
flipdewaf wrote:
Nationality, race, gender and sexuality are not choices, religion is.


Relatively few people "choose" a religion, at least originally.

The vast majority are indoctrinated into a religion by parents and/or community.


As people read and learn and listen, they are free to choose to stay with the religion they were taught or choose something else. Many atheists do this.
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