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Aesma
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Can someone explain Donald Trump ?

Sat Apr 15, 2017 2:06 am

I guess we shouldn't be surprised at the man was like that before. But seriously, is there anything left he hasn't flip-flopped on ? Do his last supporters just like seeing him as president, whatever he says and does ?

I'm tired already of hearing about him almost everyday in the news, when he's the president of another country and mine is in the middle of a game changing presidential election, that could have more impact on the world that Trump's election. In my car I listen to a business radio and analysts are lost for words. For months and years he excruciates Yellen, you wonder if he wasn't calling for his supporters to murder her, now he wants to keep her ? Really ?

He tells Europe NATO is old and dead, spend money on defense yourself (something I agree with), Germany answers "dream on", and now NATO is the best thing since sliced bread ?

China is raping us, protectionism is the way to go, I will tear up all free trade deals, etc., now all that is forgotten ?

Has the man any self-esteem, doesn't he realize he's seen as a buffoon ?

Man, you've got the job, can't you drop the act and try and earn some respect ?
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
mham001
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Re: Can someone explain Donald Trump ?

Sat Apr 15, 2017 3:16 am

Aesma wrote:
I'm tired already of hearing about him almost everyday in the news, when he's the president of another country and mine is in the middle of a game changing presidential election, that could have more impact on the world that Trump's election.


I don't disagree but why are you starting another thread about him?
 
DfwRevolution
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Re: Can someone explain Donald Trump ?

Sat Apr 15, 2017 3:36 am

3rd Law of Trump: For every Trump position, there is an equal and opposite Trump position.

Or said another way, Trump has no particular principles, doctrines, or moral compass and instead does whatever gains the loudest applause at any given moment. Which tons of conservatives realized 18 months ago.
 
opethfan
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Re: Can someone explain Donald Trump ?

Sat Apr 15, 2017 7:45 am

The first thing to note about President Trump is that he is a negotiator. Most people forget that, despite the fact that he literally wrote the book on negotiation, and so much of his campaign and techniques are simple negotiation 101. Once you realize this, so much of his craziness seems like part of a plan. And considering his success, it obviously is.

The press also wants to paint a perception of him that is an oafish buffoon who can barely put his own pants on right, never mind make billions of dollars and be elected POTUS. That isn't to say that he doesn't get things wrong, doesn't misjudge things, or doesn't needlessly rub a lot of people the wrong way, but considering the track record of the media vs the track record of President Trump, it is quite clear who we should be trusting: 0 major newspaper endorsements and an 8% winning prediction at the start of election night; or billions of dollars and winning states that weren't even considered in play.

And then take into account what Trump supporters call "4D Chess" - a clear set of steps the administration takes to draw attention to certain topics and catch the opposition in a lie. Let's go through a few examples:

- Tax returns: refuses to release them again and again, builds up a furor over claims he doesn't pay a penny, then a left-wing pundit releases one months later and shows that President Trump paid the highest percentage of any candidate. Those chasing the tax story now look foolish.

- Wiretapping: tweets that Obama wiretapped Trump Tower. Media leaps on him, calling it unproven and false, wondering what he's smoking. Then the story shifts to why Nunes talked to him (despite there apparently being nothing to talk about), then it shifts to Susan Rice, and now it's all but confirmed that GCHQ did collect data and pass it over, as claimed by Andrew Napolitano weeks prior. How did we get from "unproven" to confirming exactly what Trump allies and supporters were saying?

- Microwaves: Kellyanne Conway says microwaves can be used to spy on people. Gets laughed out of the room. CIA Vault 7 leaks show how nearly any network connected device, including Smart TVs and refrigerators, all smart phones, etc. are capable of being used to monitor individuals without any knowledge.

Now, when it comes to softening positions, that's part of the negotiations. Come out strong, then haggle down to a comfortable middle ground. Sure, you can go out and start a trade war with China, which will hurt everyone, or you can negotiate and get your coal from WV sold to China, which employs working class people in an otherwise impoverished region and harms a rogue state (NK). Likewise, you show that you are willing to flex where required and keep your cards close to your chest.

Also note that especially during the transition when people were flooding in and out of Trump Tower, even former opponents and critics spoke highly of him after the meetings. He smoothed things over with figures like Mitt Romney, Steve Harvey, Ted Cruz, Tulsi Gabbard, all of whom have spoken against the man in the past, but now say their meetings were constructive and that he listened to their viewpoints and respected them.

That isn't to say I agree with his policies or that I feel his tactics are the most effective, the most inclusive, or that he doesn't stick his foot in his mouth more than the average bear, but make no mistake, no matter what the news says: there is a method to the man's madness, and he knows what he is doing. If he is flip-flopping, its likely as part of a negotiation or to take a small defeat now in favour of a big victory down the road. If he sounds dumb, it's possible it's because he's playing the long con. And his track record has been a lot better than those denouncing him and predicting his demise.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Can someone explain Donald Trump ?

Sat Apr 15, 2017 10:39 am

opethfan wrote:
The first thing to note about President Trump is that he is a negotiator. .


You are being sarcastic, right? If he has proven one thing since he took office, then it is that the average preschooler could pull him over the table in a negotiation.

and now it's all but confirmed that GCHQ did collect data and pass it over,


Only that never happened. GCHQ never wiretapped Trump or his campaign. What you are falling for is spin control, trying to spin the fact that Trump campaign people did get caught calling wiretapped people that usually only traitors would call, into proof for made up allegations.

- Microwaves: Kellyanne Conway says microwaves can be used to spy on people. Gets laughed out of the room. CIA Vault 7 leaks show how nearly any network connected device, including Smart TVs and refrigerators, all smart phones, etc. are capable of being used to monitor individuals without any knowledge.


please provide the list of all internet enabled microwave ovens available in the United States as of last year, thank you.
All of those hacks afaik required physical access to the device, so Vault 7 proofs that Trump wasn´t spied on via Microwaves. Unless you want to claim that there was an illegal break in.

- Tax returns: refuses to release them again and again, builds up a furor over claims he doesn't pay a penny, then a left-wing pundit releases one months later and shows that President Trump paid the highest percentage of any candidate. Those chasing the tax story now look foolish.


Only that about any sane person assumes he leaked those pages himself, and that those are just the best tax return during all of his career that he could find. For journalists this PR stunt of his, the only thing he seems even beginners competent in doing aside of lying, makes it only more interesting to look into his tax returns. If just few pages are good for him, anything else must be pure gold scoop wise.

He is actually such a terrible GOP president, that him being a democrat party plant to once and for all get rid of the republicans is much, much more likely that there is any coherent plan behind what he is doing.

But then there are Trump fans that believe the most obvious lies, so Trump probably could make everyone happy by claiming he build the wall to Mexico, because you and other Trump fans would believe it and the tax payer would save billions of US$.

best regards
Thomas
This signature is a safe space for Trump supporters....
 
CanadaFair
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Re: Can someone explain Donald Trump ?

Sat Apr 15, 2017 11:09 am

I just read yesterday Melania is hating the lifestyle and stays put in New York almost like a recluse, stopped going to pick and drop the kid from school as well, isnt doing any of the first lady stuff with visting dignitaries, did so with great difficulty with the Japanese PM's wife but only because it was at home in Florida and hated every moment of it.
 
DLFREEBIRD
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Re: Can someone explain Donald Trump ?

Sat Apr 15, 2017 5:05 pm

Melania is a text book introvert, someone who enjoys being a homebody. It's been hard for her to adjust. Donald knew that and has Ivanka entertaining. sooner people accept her for who she is the better.
Last edited by DLFREEBIRD on Sat Apr 15, 2017 5:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
DLFREEBIRD
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Re: Can someone explain Donald Trump ?

Sat Apr 15, 2017 5:10 pm

careful she's been known to sue
 
tommy1808
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Re: Can someone explain Donald Trump ?

Sat Apr 15, 2017 5:11 pm

DLFREEBIRD wrote:
Melania is a text book introvert, a homebody by nature, who enjoys her own space.


that would be a pretty unusual character traits for an softporn model.

best regards
Thomas
This signature is a safe space for Trump supporters....
 
DLFREEBIRD
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Re: Can someone explain Donald Trump ?

Sat Apr 15, 2017 5:12 pm

so, i posted after you, yet my post was posted before you. kind of creepy.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Can someone explain Donald Trump ?

Sat Apr 15, 2017 5:19 pm

DLFREEBIRD wrote:
careful she's been known to sue


she shall bring it on....

It doesn´t get much harder before soft-porn turns into hard porn:

Image

DLFREEBIRD wrote:
so, i posted after you, yet my post was posted before you. kind of creepy.


Probably just clocks on two servers out of sync that load balancing put us on.

best regards
Thomas
This signature is a safe space for Trump supporters....
 
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Aesma
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Re: Can someone explain Donald Trump ?

Sat Apr 15, 2017 9:28 pm

mham001 : you're probably right, I wanted to see if there was someone left to defend Trump, I guess, but I should rather discuss the French election (which I'm doing on a French forum).

opethfan wrote:
Now, when it comes to softening positions, that's part of the negotiations. Come out strong, then haggle down to a comfortable middle ground. Sure, you can go out and start a trade war with China, which will hurt everyone, or you can negotiate and get your coal from WV sold to China, which employs working class people in an otherwise impoverished region and harms a rogue state (NK). Likewise, you show that you are willing to flex where required and keep your cards close to your chest.


This is an answer to one of my points, the rest not so much. Are you seriously saying that the US will sell coal to China ?

I agree that you don't want a trade war with China. I have no problem if Trump changes all his crazy policies to reasonable ones. But the way he's doing it is surprising, don't you think ? A typical "negotiator" should sugarcoat things, or distract you somehow. Instead he reverses 3 major policies in 1 interview !
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
Ken777
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Re: Can someone explain Donald Trump ?

Sat Apr 15, 2017 9:28 pm

I personally believe that Trump is a successful bill shitter and not much more. This success allows him to "bull" his way through life - especially when his wealth has grown and he became a "star".

With nothing but BS behind him he spouts off on any topic using some form of logic of the second. An hour later the logic can be 180 different.

And the guy loves to be a bully. All you have to do is listen to his attacks on political opponents. Totally lacking in genuine civility.
 
KLDC10
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Re: Can someone explain Donald Trump ?

Sun Apr 16, 2017 12:04 am

Aesma wrote:
He tells Europe NATO is old and dead, spend money on defense yourself (something I agree with), Germany answers "dream on", and now NATO is the best thing since sliced bread ?


He didn't say that NATO is "the best thing since sliced bread", just that it is "no longer obsolete". Trump's main objection to NATO was based on the fact that other member states fail to pay their fair share. Secretary Mattis, Vice-President Pence and others have continued to promote this policy. It seems Jens Stoltenberg agrees with President Trump on this point. So now NATO and the United States are working towards achieving Trump's goal, he doesn't need to speak in such stinging terms.
DC9/MD90/MD11/F70/BAE146/Q400/737/738/739/752/772/A320/A332/A333/E190
 
salttee
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Re: Can someone explain Donald Trump ?

Sun Apr 16, 2017 12:19 am

KLDC10 wrote:
Trump's main objection to NATO was based on the fact that other member states fail to pay their fair share. Secretary Mattis, Vice-President Pence and others have continued to promote this policy. It seems Jens Stoltenberg agrees with President Trump on this point. So now NATO and the United States are working towards achieving Trump's goal, he doesn't need to speak in such stinging terms.

Actually, the Germans have told him to piss off and they are the only ones who actually could pony up significantly more. Yet he seems to be OK with NATO these days.

My understanding is that Trump's main reason in the past for slandering NATO was that NATO's reason for existence was to hold Russia in check, or as it is currently, to hold Putin in check. Trump seems to be singing a different song about Putin/Russia lately, if this is a sincere change of view on his part, that would go a long way towards explaining his shift on NATO.

It is possible that Trump's shift of views on Putin/Russia are sincere. I'm sure the world looks much different from the White House than it did from Trump Tower. Also, I'm sure that he has had a lot of things explained to him that he never bothered to inform himself about before.
"Good genes, very good genes, Ok, very smart, the Wharton School of finance, very good, very smart."
 
KLDC10
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Re: Can someone explain Donald Trump ?

Sun Apr 16, 2017 12:25 am

salttee wrote:
My understanding is that Trump's main reason in the past for slandering NATO was that NATO's reason for existence was to hold Russia in check, or as it is currently, to hold Putin in check. Trump seems to be singing a different song about Putin/Russia lately, if this is a sincere change of view on his part, that would go a long way towards explaining his shift on NATO.


You could be right. If candidate-Trump didn't see Russia as a particular threat, then NATO would appear to be just another expense. However, if, as you suggest, he is starting to view Russia in a different light, he might be far more willing to support an organization which prevents Russian expansion. It makes sense - I guess we'll have to wait a while longer to decide whether this is a long or short term shift in opinion though.
DC9/MD90/MD11/F70/BAE146/Q400/737/738/739/752/772/A320/A332/A333/E190
 
NIKV69
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Re: Can someone explain Donald Trump ?

Sun Apr 16, 2017 4:17 am

8 years people. Enjoy it!
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
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Francoflier
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Re: Can someone explain Donald Trump ?

Sun Apr 16, 2017 4:40 am

DLFREEBIRD wrote:
Melania is a text book introvert, someone who enjoys being a homebody.


Melania is a text book trophy wife. One who sold her looks for money and power.

Not that I want to be mean to her. I actually like her, she seems a decent enough person, at least compared to her husband, but you can see the telltale signs of a dysfunctional relationship there, one where the 2 have very little in common, and I believe this is why all the spotlights are making Melania very uncomfortable and somewhat shameful about the true nature of their union being exposed to the World.

It's a shame, she could be a great first lady.


Anyhow, back to her husband. It seems clear what is happening.

His populist rhetoric is slowly being confronted to the realities of the World and, surprise surprise, they don't have a place in the real World...
The relief here is that at least even he is smart enough to admit to himself that what he said was wrong and that he is maleable enough to listen to some degree of reason.

There's 2 scenarios. He either actually believed all that crap he was feeding his screaming fans and is only now realizing that none of it made any sense, or he knew all along and just used it to wow the weak-minded into voting for him.
Either way... it's worrying.
Not that this seems to bother his fans, who adore him when he says white one day and adore him when he says black the next day.

The joys of a having a self-serving populist government. :innocent:
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
dfwjim1
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Re: Can someone explain Donald Trump ?

Sun Apr 16, 2017 5:16 am

One thing to keep in mind is that every new president/prime minister of any country goes through a certain trial and error period as he/she adjusts to the realities of being office. Love him or hate him, Mr.Trump, in all fairness, is going to need time to get up and running as President.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Can someone explain Donald Trump ?

Sun Apr 16, 2017 8:54 am

NIKV69 wrote:
8 years people. Enjoy it!


4 years tops and in two years time he won't be able to get anything done, not having a majority anywhere left. Not that he does accomplish anything now, failed president that he is. Has there ever been a less effective president?

ISIS defeated within 30 days.....

Every single campaign promiss broken or failed. But hey, at least he is making George Bush jr. Look smart and educated.

Best regards
Thomas
This signature is a safe space for Trump supporters....
 
tommy1808
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Re: Can someone explain Donald Trump ?

Sun Apr 16, 2017 9:05 am

salttee wrote:
Actually, the Germans have told him to piss off and they are the only ones who actually could pony up significantly more. Yet he seems to be OK with NATO these days.


I do have the feeling that the US government was informed via side channels that being a sovereign country we could just stop paying for US troops present in Germany or that we could insist the the US reimburses the German government for some 42 years of construction costs that the USA has a contractual obligation to pay, but that Germany never enforced.

Best regards
Thomas
This signature is a safe space for Trump supporters....
 
WIederling
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Re: Can someone explain Donald Trump ?

Sun Apr 16, 2017 9:39 am

tommy1808 wrote:
salttee wrote:
Actually, the Germans have told him to piss off and they are the only ones who actually could pony up significantly more. Yet he seems to be OK with NATO these days.


I do have the feeling that the US government was informed via side channels that being a sovereign country we could just stop paying for US troops present in Germany or that we could insist the the US reimburses the German government for some 42 years of construction costs that the USA has a contractual obligation to pay, but that Germany never enforced.


When the US asked for German troops to send to Vietnam they got the hospital ship Helgoland out of it:

http://www.ndr.de/fernsehen/sendungen/s ... e1214.html
US breaks it. Germany mends.
Murphy is an optimist
 
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Mortyman
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Re: Can someone explain Donald Trump ?

Sun Apr 16, 2017 9:52 am

KLDC10 wrote:
Aesma wrote:
He tells Europe NATO is old and dead, spend money on defense yourself (something I agree with), Germany answers "dream on", and now NATO is the best thing since sliced bread ?


He didn't say that NATO is "the best thing since sliced bread", just that it is "no longer obsolete". Trump's main objection to NATO was based on the fact that other member states fail to pay their fair share. Secretary Mattis, Vice-President Pence and others have continued to promote this policy. It seems Jens Stoltenberg agrees with President Trump on this point. So now NATO and the United States are working towards achieving Trump's goal, he doesn't need to speak in such stinging terms.



It's doubtful that the 2 % will happen during Trump's 4-8 years in office.
 
WIederling
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Re: Can someone explain Donald Trump ?

Sun Apr 16, 2017 11:01 am

Mortyman wrote:
It's doubtful that the 2 % will happen during Trump's 4-8 years in office.


Whatever. The US doesn't spend 2% on "defense". What they spend money on is power projection conjoined with
aggression.
All the "Cold War US protecting their partners and friends" would have brought "glow by night" for the whole of Europe.
Murphy is an optimist
 
KLDC10
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Re: Can someone explain Donald Trump ?

Sun Apr 16, 2017 11:42 am

Mortyman wrote:
It's doubtful that the 2 % will happen during Trump's 4-8 years in office.


I agree that this is a long-term aim, but it is a long-term aim which is now underway. It had to start at some point, and if it takes a few years then so be it. So long as NATO continues to work towards other countries paying the full 2%, I think that the United States will be far more cooperative.
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seb146
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Re: Can someone explain Donald Trump ?

Sun Apr 16, 2017 4:28 pm

He is contradicting (lying) all the time, too, and none of his supporters seem to care. He said he would release his taxes and now he says "no one cares" (the marches across the country prove otherwise). He said he would put America first and now he lets foreign companies in first. He said he would be open and transparent and now he blocks visitor logs. His party demands that he be fiscally responsible but he has spent more on himself in two months than Obama did over eight years. He said leading would be his priority but he plays golf all the time.
Patriotic and Proud Liberal
 
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Channex757
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Re: Can someone explain Donald Trump ?

Sun Apr 16, 2017 11:02 pm

Slate me for it if you must, but I have this sneaking suspicion that Trump did not expect to become President.

yes, he went through the motions of doing all the pre-election stuff and setting up the initial work to head towards an administration, but he never actually expected to beat Hillary. It would explain his actions in that he was not mentally prepared to assume the Presidency; nor is he able to communicate in the ways a President should. Even Dubya who could mangle his words like a boss was more coherent than Trump.

I think he ran for President because he wanted to and he was almost 70, so it was a case of now or never and he lost the gamble and actually ended up in the big chair. He likes doing the deal and saw the election campaign as being the biggest deal-making buzz he could find.
 
11725Flyer
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Re: Can someone explain Donald Trump ?

Sat Apr 22, 2017 9:42 pm

Aesma wrote:
I guess we shouldn't be surprised at the man was like that before. But seriously, is there anything left he hasn't flip-flopped on ? Do his last supporters just like seeing him as president, whatever he says and does ?

He tells Europe NATO is old and dead, spend money on defense yourself (something I agree with), Germany answers "dream on", and now NATO is the best thing since sliced bread ?

China is raping us, protectionism is the way to go, I will tear up all free trade deals, etc., now all that is forgotten ?



Flip-flopping is nothing unusual for any political figure. One of the more prominent examples was the George H.W. Bush "read my lips: no new taxes" commitment. That failed pledge helped propel Bill Clinton to the presidency.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Read_my_l ... _new_taxes

However, in Tumps's case, the sheer volume and swiftness of taking a different position is astonishing. It seems as though Trump's position echoes the person that last talked to him.
 
DLFREEBIRD
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Re: Can someone explain Donald Trump ?

Sun Apr 23, 2017 12:38 am

tired of trying to figure out trump and his base, however.

Neil deGrasse Tyson wrote

Show me a Nation with a science-hostile goverment, and i'll show you a society with failing health, wealthy and security.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Can someone explain Donald Trump ?

Sun Apr 23, 2017 8:51 pm

DLFREEBIRD wrote:
tired of trying to figure out trump and his base, however.

Neil deGrasse Tyson wrote

Show me a Nation with a science-hostile goverment, and i'll show you a society with failing health, wealthy and security.


Yes, that is the end result. Fake news and pseudo-science will never bring a society to new heights.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
opethfan
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Re: Can someone explain Donald Trump ?

Mon Apr 24, 2017 12:04 am

Aesma wrote:
This is an answer to one of my points, the rest not so much. Are you seriously saying that the US will sell coal to China ?

I agree that you don't want a trade war with China. I have no problem if Trump changes all his crazy policies to reasonable ones. But the way he's doing it is surprising, don't you think ? A typical "negotiator" should sugarcoat things, or distract you somehow. Instead he reverses 3 major policies in 1 interview !


That's exactly what I'm saying. http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/12/politics/ ... orea-coal/
"Reuters, which first reported that the North Korean ships had turned back to their home port of Nampo, citing its Thomson Reuters Eikon financial information and analytics platform, also reported that China is increasing coal orders from the United States. No US coal was shipped to China between late 2014 and 2016, but 400,000 tons had been shipped there from the United States by late February, Reuters reported."

And nothing about Trump's actions would be surprising if you literally read the books he's written. From bad press (https://imgur.com/mabDTUP), to spelling mistakes on Twitter, to changing positions to gauge public reaction, to supporting doomed legislation (like Ryancare), it's all a part of the plan. Read The Art of the Deal; hang out with some Trump supporters on social media. See what they see, read what they read, try to feel what they feel, even if you don't agree with it yourself.

At least, if you actually want to understand the Donald, and not just engage in a holier-than-thou circlejerk, as I've noticed a large number of Europeans and Canadians (on all parts of the political compass) seem to enjoy doing.
 
opethfan
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Re: Can someone explain Donald Trump ?

Mon Apr 24, 2017 12:16 am

tommy1808 wrote:
You are being sarcastic, right? If he has proven one thing since he took office, then it is that the average preschooler could pull him over the table in a negotiation.


Well apparently he can make deals Obama couldn't: https://i.redd.it/00jblkll1m8y.jpg

Only that never happened. GCHQ never wiretapped Trump or his campaign. What you are falling for is spin control, trying to spin the fact that Trump campaign people did get caught calling wiretapped people that usually only traitors would call, into proof for made up allegations.


Here's a nice far-left article saying it: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... nks-russia
So are The Guardian lying about that? In their own article they can't decide if GCHQ spied or if they didn't. Sounds a lot like spin to me, indeed. Just not the kind you were thinking of, since it doesn't fly with your biases.

please provide the list of all internet enabled microwave ovens available in the United States as of last year, thank you.
All of those hacks afaik required physical access to the device, so Vault 7 proofs that Trump wasn´t spied on via Microwaves. Unless you want to claim that there was an illegal break in.


Are you deliberately missing the point, or just being dense because it's the only front on which you don't look silly?

"oh haha Kellyanne, so dumb thinking microwaves can spy on us!"
Oh look, fridges with Android: http://gadgets.ndtv.com/others/news/sam ... ous-320610
And we know Android can get hacked without effort by these agencies.
Angry fools go around yelling "look how wrong she is!" and just draws attention to the fact minus one detail (it's TVs and fridges, not microwaves) - the story is totally true.

Only that about any sane person assumes he leaked those pages himself, and that those are just the best tax return during all of his career that he could find. For journalists this PR stunt of his, the only thing he seems even beginners competent in doing aside of lying, makes it only more interesting to look into his tax returns. If just few pages are good for him, anything else must be pure gold scoop wise.


So he deliberately overpaid tax one time 12 years ago in preparation for this moment, knowing he would leak the return to a biased media pundit who would run it anyway and make themselves look foolish. That sounds like the kind of foresight and getting to the opponent's head that we need in a world leader. Thanks for proving the point.

But then there are Trump fans that believe the most obvious lies, so Trump probably could make everyone happy by claiming he build the wall to Mexico, because you and other Trump fans would believe it and the tax payer would save billions of US$.


I actually have no real opinion on the wall. Except that it seems silly that the USA is the only developed nation on Earth which tolerates such widespread illegal migration.

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Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos