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Zkpilot
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UK officials said Britain has obligations to Gibraltar

Mon Apr 03, 2017 7:09 am

Apparently several senior politicians in the U.K. Including the PM have said they would defend Gibraltar (including war) if Spain tries to invade post Brexit.
While U.K. Doesn't have the same Navy or Air Force that it used to it still is overwhelmingly more powerful than Spains. Of course in this case Argentina would probably use the diversion to retake the Falklands (albeit with a massive nosebleed from it).
Thoughts?
Last edited by SQ22 on Sun Apr 09, 2017 5:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Zkpilot
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Re: Spain threatens Gibraltar post Brexit, UK reminds them of Falklands...

Mon Apr 03, 2017 7:22 am

How friendly are Spain and Argentina these days?
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seahawk
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Re: Spain threatens Gibraltar post Brexit, UK reminds them of Falklands...

Mon Apr 03, 2017 7:25 am

If Spain invades, the EU will help them, so the Uk will be defeated. The British Isles will be invaded and put under German control. You will all learn to speak Deutsch, drive on the right side of the road and use the metric system.

Or in other words, the British government is playing nationalistic card again in expectation of the hard deal the Brexit will bring.
 
JJJ
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Re: Spain threatens Gibraltar post Brexit, UK reminds them of Falklands...

Mon Apr 03, 2017 7:34 am

seahawk wrote:

Or in other words, the British government is playing nationalistic card again in expectation of the hard deal the Brexit will bring.


Pretty much. The pill will be easier to swallow if the public is convinced they're out to get us.
 
UltimoTiger777
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Re: Spain threatens Gibraltar post Brexit, UK reminds them of Falklands...

Mon Apr 03, 2017 8:48 am

I watched the clip of former Conservative Party leader Micheal Howard. He stated that May would show the same resolve Thatcher did.

That does not automatically equate to "Britain will go to war over Gibraltar". Nor does Britain leaving the EU automatically mean the Spanish Army is about to invade.

Zkpilot wrote:
Of course in this case Argentina would probably use the diversion to retake the Falklands (albeit with a massive nosebleed from it).
Thoughts?


Have you seen the current state of the Argentine Navy? Very few of its actual fighting ships and submarines are fit for use. Most of their air forces A-4s are in storage as of 2016.

While one should never be complacent, I would also imagine the odds of Argentina attempting another invasion of the islands, especially when their economy is still struggling, to be rather slim.
 
Olddog
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Re: Spain threatens Gibraltar post Brexit, UK reminds them of Falklands...

Mon Apr 03, 2017 8:54 am

There is an easy way for spain to defeat Gibraltar without any fight: close the borders and ask EU to put Gibraltar on Tax heaven blacklist....
 
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Aesma
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Re: Spain threatens Gibraltar post Brexit, UK reminds them of Falklands...

Mon Apr 03, 2017 8:56 am

Did any "senior politician" in Spain actually suggest something as ridiculous as invading Gibraltar ?

Keep in mind Spain has enclaves in Morocco, if they would do something as foolish and unnecessary, I wouldn't be surprised to see a ripple effect.
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Redd
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Re: Spain threatens Gibraltar post Brexit, UK reminds them of Falklands...

Mon Apr 03, 2017 9:03 am

Spain hasn't threatened Gibraltar. A Spanish official said "if Brexit happened, it would change our obligations to Gibraltar", which is obviously true, free movement would look much different. Looks like UK politicians are trying to divert attention from the disaster that is Brexit by imagining up a potential conflict.
 
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Re: Spain threatens Gibraltar post Brexit, UK reminds them of Falklands...

Mon Apr 03, 2017 9:10 am

Zkpilot wrote:
Apparently several senior politicians in the U.K. Including the PM have said they would defend Gibraltar (including war) if Spain tries to invade post Brexit.


Please post a link to show where Theresa May says she'll go to war with Spain over Gibralta.

UltimoTiger777 wrote:
That does not automatically equate to "Britain will go to war over Gibraltar". Nor does Britain leaving the EU automatically mean the Spanish Army is about to invade.


Exactly. It's a complete nonsense to suggest either of those events are even remotely likely. Seriously, Michael Howard is a complete political irrelevance in 2017.

seahawk wrote:
If Spain invades, the EU will help them, so the Uk will be defeated.


So you're suggesting the EU will support one member invading a separate territory? Dream on.

The hyperbole in this thread is ridiculous.
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seahawk
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Re: Spain threatens Gibraltar post Brexit, UK reminds them of Falklands...

Mon Apr 03, 2017 9:11 am

It is a topic made up in the UK.

Obviously any agreement with the UK that involves Gibraltar would need the support of Spain, just like any agreement with the EU would need.

Here is the Spanish position:

https://www.euractiv.com/section/politi ... -priority/

http://chronicle.gi/2017/03/spain-will- ... stis-says/
Last edited by seahawk on Mon Apr 03, 2017 9:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
JJJ
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Re: Spain threatens Gibraltar post Brexit, UK reminds them of Falklands...

Mon Apr 03, 2017 9:14 am

Olddog wrote:
There is an easy way for spain to defeat Gibraltar without any fight: close the borders and ask EU to put Gibraltar on Tax heaven blacklist....


Spain did that already for several decades. It only pushed the Gibraltarians from suspicious to almost overtly hostile.
 
helhem
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Re: Spain threatens Gibraltar post Brexit, UK reminds them of Falklands...

Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:37 am

I think Spain could initially overrun the rock. But people this is ridiculous. The resulting mess would be one of the worst use of resources ever. It feels like a small coastal town with a slightly anachronistic feel to it. People in Spain shrug about the rock. Ok Nice place to visit though

The cheap spanish moves over the brexit are bad. Joint something was a bad suggestion. Ok it is always said to be a tax haven. Get that under control then they should give the rock some special uk status. How are jersey and the channel islands with customs etc
 
JJJ
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Re: Spain threatens Gibraltar post Brexit, UK reminds them of Falklands...

Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:51 am

helhem wrote:
I think Spain could initially overrun the rock. But people this is ridiculous. The resulting mess would be one of the worst use of resources ever. It feels like a small coastal town with a slightly anachronistic feel to it. People in Spain shrug about the rock. Ok Nice place to visit though

The cheap spanish moves over the brexit are bad. Joint something was a bad suggestion. Ok it is always said to be a tax haven. Get that under control then they should give the rock some special uk status. How are jersey and the channel islands with customs etc


No one besides the rightmost wing of the PP cares about Gibraltar, and also most people don't particularly care if the UK wants to keep a tax haven by having all their gambling companies and quite a few insurance companies syphon their profits there (lost revenue for the UK, but at least it stays within Crown dependencies).

When it bites into the Spanish tax collection that's a different thing, though. At one point a few years back tobacco duties made up 30% of total Gibraltarian tax revenue. Basically covering healthcare and education. This meant that every man, woman and child in Gibraltar was smoking something like 4.000 cigarrette packs a year. It is estimated that up to 6.000 Gibraltarians (out of a population of 30.000) live in Spain for extended periods of time without paying tax there, but still benefitting from easier access to healthcare, education, etc. as well as cheaper (or bigger) properties.

Even Chief Minister Picardo lived in Spain before taking office (in San Roque, just across the border).

There's plenty to talk about without the sovereignity BS and sabre rattling.
 
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Re: Spain threatens Gibraltar post Brexit, UK reminds them of Falklands...

Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:51 am

helhem wrote:
The cheap spanish moves over the brexit are bad. Joint something was a bad suggestion. Ok it is always said to be a tax haven. Get that under control then they should give the rock some special uk status. How are jersey and the channel islands with customs etc


AFAIK Jersey, Isle of Man and the Channel Islands are not part of the EU. The agreements on free movement of trade and people is also not applicable nor are citizens from there considered to be EU citizen. The situation isdifferent with Gibraltar which is part of the EU and where the people from there are considered EU citizens and thus enjoy the benefits of all EU citizens in Spain. As such, including Gibraltar in the Brexit talks is not that strange especially if Gibraltar is surrounded by an EU member.
 
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Re: Spain threatens Gibraltar post Brexit, UK reminds them of Falklands...

Mon Apr 03, 2017 11:06 am

There are no cheap Spanish moves. It is logical that Spain also has concerns and interests when Gibraltar is no longer part of the EU.Who else in the EU should have the final say, if the solution for Gibraltar is satisfactory for the EU members, especially if there a special rules to be made for Gibraltar and its citizens? In the end it is a prelude to the coming conflict on the freedom of movement, with the UK wanting unlimited freedom of movement for British citizens to the EU, but still have control over the movement of EU citizens to the UK. In the end the British government knows that they will not get this and they can not grant unlimited freedom of movement to the EU, as regaining control of the borders was a major part of the Brexit promises, so they are now finding a "bad guy" to blame for the problems that will arise for some British citizens.

Imho this is just another episode in the story of the UK going Brexit totally unprepared. And there will be more episodes coming.
 
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Re: Spain threatens Gibraltar post Brexit, UK reminds them of Falklands...

Mon Apr 03, 2017 11:13 am

Everyone talking here about war and who will support who when no one has mentioned that both Spain and the UK are NATO members...just how exactly do countries in an alliance support one member over the other?
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Olddog
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Re: Spain threatens Gibraltar post Brexit, UK reminds them of Falklands...

Mon Apr 03, 2017 11:14 am

JJJ wrote:
Spain did that already for several decades. It only pushed the Gibraltarians from suspicious to almost overtly hostile.


Yes but times and roles have changed. Spain is not the same than in the eighties and is now in comfortably in the EU.
 
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Re: Spain threatens Gibraltar post Brexit, UK reminds them of Falklands...

Mon Apr 03, 2017 11:49 am

Zkpilot wrote:
Apparently several senior politicians in the U.K. Including the PM have said they would defend Gibraltar (including war) if Spain tries to invade post Brexit.
While U.K. Doesn't have the same Navy or Air Force that it used to it still is overwhelmingly more powerful than Spains. Of course in this case Argentina would probably use the diversion to retake the Falklands (albeit with a massive nosebleed from it).
Thoughts?


Will the united EU stand by and watch as one of its member states is attacked by a rapidly imploding failed state?

Spain should follow the law and not be the aggressor. The smart thing to do would be to initiate legal and back-channel moves to call for a referendum.

If there is a referendum in post-Brexit Gibraltar, which way do you think would they go? Reunite with the motherland or continue under colonial occupation? EU could send in troops to enforce the Referendum.
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dtw2hyd
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Re: Spain threatens Gibraltar post Brexit, UK reminds them of Falklands...

Mon Apr 03, 2017 12:07 pm

Spain should just pay London based consultants to start a media blitz claiming Gibraltar is milking Britain. Brits will vote it out in a referendum.
 
Bostrom
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Re: Spain threatens Gibraltar post Brexit, UK reminds them of Falklands...

Mon Apr 03, 2017 12:34 pm

BawliBooch wrote:
If there is a referendum in post-Brexit Gibraltar, which way do you think would they go? Reunite with the motherland or continue under colonial occupation? EU could send in troops to enforce the Referendum.


In 2002, 98.97 % of the population in Gibraltar voted no to a proposal on shared british-spanish sovereignty over the peninsula. While the UK leaving the EU will probably result in more Gibraltarians voting yes to a similar proposal as a way to remain in the EU, I doubt that it will swing the vote enough to result in an overall yes vote.
 
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Re: Spain threatens Gibraltar post Brexit, UK reminds them of Falklands...

Mon Apr 03, 2017 12:41 pm

Bostrom wrote:
In 2002, 98.97 % of the population in Gibraltar voted no to a proposal on shared british-spanish sovereignty over the peninsula. While the UK leaving the EU will probably result in more Gibraltarians voting yes to a similar proposal as a way to remain in the EU, I doubt that it will swing the vote enough to result in an overall yes vote.


Ok. So the British should have no problem in agreeing to hold a referendum in Gibraltar to seek the peoples opinion on their future.

I think Spain should dial down the military aggression and immediately move the United Nations and call for a UN-monitored referendum in Gibraltar. The EU could send a peace-keeping force to Gibraltar to prevent any atrocities on the local population.
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Re: Spain threatens Gibraltar post Brexit, UK reminds them of Falklands...

Mon Apr 03, 2017 1:32 pm

BawliBooch wrote:
Ok. So the British should have no problem in agreeing to hold a referendum in Gibraltar to seek the peoples opinion on their future.


Probably not. The inhabitants of Gibraltar voted overwhelmingly to Remain, but if given the choice between leaving with the UK or being absorbed by Spain, I highly doubt they will chose the latter. If Spain took over Gibraltar they's just screw it up.

BawliBooch wrote:
I think Spain should dial down the military aggression and immediately move the United Nations and call for a UN-monitored referendum in Gibraltar. The EU could send a peace-keeping force to Gibraltar to prevent any atrocities on the local population.


You say "dial-down" and then imply that Gibraltar and the UK are unable to manage a democratic election? The UK is far better at democracy than Spain, the EU, or the UN ever was.

All this war talk is nonsense. Spain is wanting to get Gibraltar back, and were unwisely allowed to insert that desire into the EU Brexit position. The British should say simply, "Gibraltar's sovereignty status is off the table, Not going to happen, Forget it." Since when did Brexit mean either side needs to make territorial concessions?
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Re: Spain threatens Gibraltar post Brexit, UK reminds them of Falklands...

Mon Apr 03, 2017 2:02 pm

Dreadnought wrote:
Spain is wanting to get Gibraltar back, and were unwisely allowed to insert that desire into the EU Brexit position. The British should say simply, "Gibraltar's sovereignty status is off the table, Not going to happen, Forget it." Since when did Brexit mean either side needs to make territorial concessions?


Except that when the original referendum was done in 2002, Britain was very much in the EU and the choice then was between Britain & joint sovereignty status with Spain. Circumstances have changed drastically since then. The choice for many in Gibraltar is to stay with Britain or stay with the EU - and many in Gibraltar would like to chose the latter option. The citizens of Gibraltar must be given the right to self-determination - whether to remain as a British colonial possession or to accede to Spain.

Comments by British politicians comparing it to Falklands are just plain irresponsible. If the British PM thinks she can rescue her political career by drumming up pseudo-patriotic fervour with a shooting match in Gibraltar she has another one coming! This isnt 1982 and this lady is no Thatcher! :roll:

PS:In the changed post-Brexit situation, Scotland & N.Ireland should be calling for referendums too. How long will they have carry to carry the cross for English politicians? beannacht england! :wave:
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Re: Spain threatens Gibraltar post Brexit, UK reminds them of Falklands...

Mon Apr 03, 2017 2:26 pm

BawliBooch wrote:
The citizens of Gibraltar must be given the right to self-determination - whether to remain as a British colonial possession or to accede to Spain.


And I have no problem with that (though I have no say in the matter). But if you think the residents of Gibraltar are likely to vote to join Spain and dump their relation with the UK, I'd say you are delusional.

BawliBooch wrote:
Comments by British politicians comparing it to Falklands are just plain irresponsible.


As are the Spanish desires to get Gibraltar back, and the EU's fueling the fire. You lost the territory centuries ago. Get over it.
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LJ
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Re: Spain threatens Gibraltar post Brexit, UK reminds them of Falklands...

Mon Apr 03, 2017 2:47 pm

BawliBooch wrote:
I think Spain should dial down the military aggression and immediately move the United Nations and call for a UN-monitored referendum in Gibraltar. The EU could send a peace-keeping force to Gibraltar to prevent any atrocities on the local population.


As pointed out by Olddog:
Olddog wrote:
There is an easy way for spain to defeat Gibraltar without any fight: close the borders and ask EU to put Gibraltar on Tax heaven blacklist....


This would be without violence, agression and legal if the UK leaves the EU (though closing borders isn't necessary, putting Gibraltar on the EU blacklist will + denying people from Gibratar the right to work iin Spain and the rest of the EU). I think the the UK will find this Gibraltar thing very annoying, but will choose what's best for the UK, not for Gibraltar. As such I don't think that the UK will do its best for Gibraltar and drop their needs them when needed.
 
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Re: Spain threatens Gibraltar post Brexit, UK reminds them of Falklands...

Mon Apr 03, 2017 3:00 pm

Zkpilot wrote:
Apparently several senior politicians in the U.K. Including the PM have said they would defend Gibraltar (including war) if Spain tries to invade post Brexit.


Ok. This, along with the title of your thread and most of the replies, is absurd.

Never has Spain remotely threatened to invade Gibraltar, and a few politicians on the UK side, mostly of the populist and pro-Brexit side, decided to bring up references to the Falkland wars in what seems to be a pre-negotiations chest-thumping game.

This is why the World is so messed up these days. We are literally looking for every little excuse to jump at each other's throats, and mostly for insignificant absurdities that get blown out of proportions by those who seek to be heard.

This will get dealt with through negotiation, like the rest of Brexit, or everything else. Let's just let the politicians do their thing, drama and all.
Although I wouldn't say this is the best way for the UK to bring itself the favors of Spain or the rest of the EU ahead of negotiations. Where's that good old British phlegmatism and restrain? Aren't they the ones usually criticizing their former colony across the pond for this kind of brash impulsiveness?

Anyhow, here's a little dispassionate read about the spat:
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-39478636
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JJJ
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Re: Spain threatens Gibraltar post Brexit, UK reminds them of Falklands...

Mon Apr 03, 2017 3:01 pm

Dreadnought wrote:
All this war talk is nonsense. Spain is wanting to get Gibraltar back, and were unwisely allowed to insert that desire into the EU Brexit position. The British should say simply, "Gibraltar's sovereignty status is off the table, Not going to happen, Forget it." Since when did Brexit mean either side needs to make territorial concessions?


Who's talking about sovereignty? This is about (tax) money.

As many as 6.000 Gibraltarians (out of 30.000) own homes in Spain and use Spanish services without paying tax here, cigarrette duties make up 30% of their tax revenue, Gibraltar record on managing hashish contraband from Morocco is dismal, etc.

If UK citizens want to prop up a tax haven microstate it's all fine, but as long as it bites into someone else's pocket it's something else entirely. Spain was strongarmed into opening the border with Gibraltar during accession talks to the EEC, now the shoe is on the other foot. No need to freak out or talk about war (which was started by a certain Lord Howard, btw).

As the Spanish foreign minister put it: "In this case, the traditional British composure has been notable for its absence."
 
Derico
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Re: Spain threatens Gibraltar post Brexit, UK reminds them of Falklands...

Mon Apr 03, 2017 3:33 pm

Zkpilot wrote:
. Of course in this case Argentina would probably use the diversion to retake the Falklands (albeit with a massive nosebleed from it).
Thoughts?


I think you need to cut your daily stash of books from the Fantasy section.

You have no evidence whatsoever about this. Put up... or just take it easy.
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Bostrom
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Re: Spain threatens Gibraltar post Brexit, UK reminds them of Falklands...

Mon Apr 03, 2017 5:25 pm

BawliBooch wrote:
Bostrom wrote:
In 2002, 98.97 % of the population in Gibraltar voted no to a proposal on shared british-spanish sovereignty over the peninsula. While the UK leaving the EU will probably result in more Gibraltarians voting yes to a similar proposal as a way to remain in the EU, I doubt that it will swing the vote enough to result in an overall yes vote.


Ok. So the British should have no problem in agreeing to hold a referendum in Gibraltar to seek the peoples opinion on their future.


Maybe, but you have to ask Theresa May about that. But a new referendum about the future of Gibraltar should in my opinion not be part of the Brexit negotiations, it should be up to the Gibraltarians to decide. But given the landslide victory for the no side in 2002, I think it is unlikely the result will be different. But in the end I fear that the votes of the 17 million in the UK that voted leave are more important to the Tories than 30.000 Gibraltarians.

BawliBooch wrote:
I think Spain should dial down the military aggression and immediately move the United Nations and call for a UN-monitored referendum in Gibraltar. The EU could send a peace-keeping force to Gibraltar to prevent any atrocities on the local population.


Peace-keeping force in Gibraltar? Is there any indications about something happening that the Royal Gibraltar Police would not be able to handle?

To me this discussion seems very strange, both Spain and the UK need to calm down a bit and accept that Brexit won't change the status of Gibraltar.
 
GDB
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Re: Spain threatens Gibraltar post Brexit, UK reminds them of Falklands...

Mon Apr 03, 2017 6:13 pm

It pains me to admit it but this is a problem made right here in the UK, Howard's comment was stupid and absurd, sadly all too common in the La La Land many of his ilk live in.
We were warned, warned about Gib, warned about Scotland, warned about the border with N.I. and Ireland and much else besides. Still, cannot have those immigrants here taking the jobs we won't do.
Gib voted with by far the biggest landslide last year to Remain. Now you know why. Well those who have a clue did.
 
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Re: Spain threatens Gibraltar post Brexit, UK reminds them of Falklands...

Mon Apr 03, 2017 6:37 pm

The point of Gibraltar was for the British to have control of the Mediterranean with the rock in the west, and Suez Canal in the east. If Putin does become as militaristic as the West thinks, I'd rather have the Brits defending the Straight than the Spanish if the Black Sea fleet ever stops by.

If Spain does start hostilities toward the UK over Gibraltar (which they won't) it would be disastrous for them. It would be as Sacha Barron Cohen said in Talladega Knights, "Your injury is one of ignorance and pride."
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Re: Spain threatens Gibraltar post Brexit, UK reminds them of Falklands...

Mon Apr 03, 2017 7:13 pm

TWA772LR wrote:
If Putin does become as militaristic as the West thinks, I'd rather have the Brits defending the Straight than the Spanish if the Black Sea fleet ever stops by.

Don't think Russians have any issue with the European countries. Within the next 2 years, much of Continental Europe will be led by leaders who owe their position to the Kremlin so they have little to worry. Putin has outplayed his enemy across the Atlantic.

Some say, even the enemy across the Atlantic is led by a man who owes his position to the Kremlin. Is this true? Where does this leave the Trojan Horse then?
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UltimoTiger777
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Re: Spain threatens Gibraltar post Brexit, UK reminds them of Falklands...

Mon Apr 03, 2017 8:44 pm

BawliBooch wrote:

I think Spain should dial down the military aggression and immediately move the United Nations and call for a UN-monitored referendum in Gibraltar. The EU could send a peace-keeping force to Gibraltar to prevent any atrocities on the local population.


Oh yes, that isn't biased at all, the body who said they're going to side with Spain!

It amazes me how badly the Spanish have failed to get over the loss of their empire. You don't see Britain and Portugal demanding nations in Africa to give us back land do you?
 
Bostrom
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Re: Spain threatens Gibraltar post Brexit, UK reminds them of Falklands...

Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:07 pm

GDB wrote:
It pains me to admit it but this is a problem made right here in the UK, Howard's comment was stupid and absurd, sadly all too common in the La La Land many of his ilk live in.
We were warned, warned about Gib, warned about Scotland, warned about the border with N.I. and Ireland and much else besides. Still, cannot have those immigrants here taking the jobs we won't do.
Gib voted with by far the biggest landslide last year to Remain. Now you know why. Well those who have a clue did.


That is probably true, some british politicians sound like the Spanish Armada just has been spotted outside Cornwall. But Spain shouldn't have brought up the issue to start with.

Although, it would help the british if they stopped treating Gibraltar like a colony and made it part of the UK.
 
prebennorholm
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Re: Spain threatens Gibraltar post Brexit, UK reminds them of Falklands...

Tue Apr 04, 2017 2:57 am

Zkpilot wrote:
Apparently several senior politicians in the U.K. Including the PM have said they would defend Gibraltar (including war) if Spain tries to invade post Brexit. Thoughts?

It's complete nonsense. Of course no EU country can threaten another peaceful and democratic country. (Or that EU country shall be "brexited", not in two years, but in less than two minutes).

Among 350 million EU27 citizens there will of course be a few dozen who have a temporary brain fart. UK politicians shall ignore that as they ignore all the brain farts they experience at home.

The UK politicians have created a tremendously heavy workload for themselves during the next two years. They should get that started instead of continuous badmouthing the rest of the EU. Grow up and talk to EU27 as adult people. Anything else is stupid brainwashing for internal use only, and waste of precious time.

Maybe the UK politicians don't know, but then I can tell them: If they do nothing over the next 23 months, then it is not the EU27 which comes crawling on their knees five minutes before midnight and beg for special UK - EU27 relations.

But Brexit will of course change the relations between Gibraltar and Spain. If no new agreements are made over the next 23 months, then we know exactly how it will change. Well, some people don't know, but if they want to know, they can just ask any citizen of Gibraltar.
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Pyrex
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Re: Spain threatens Gibraltar post Brexit, UK reminds them of Falklands...

Tue Apr 04, 2017 3:05 am

seahawk wrote:
If Spain invades, the EU will help them, so the Uk will be defeated. The British Isles will be invaded and put under German control. You will all learn to speak Deutsch, drive on the right side of the road and use the metric system.


And which of the half-dozen serviceable Luftwaffe fighter planes will you use to achieve that, exactly?
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ltbewr
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Re: Spain threatens Gibraltar post Brexit, UK reminds them of Falklands...

Tue Apr 04, 2017 3:13 am

Another of the unintended consequences of the 'Brexit'. Some deal will be made, much like the UK will have to with the Rep. of Ireland.
 
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Re: Spain threatens Gibraltar post Brexit, UK reminds them of Falklands...

Tue Apr 04, 2017 5:01 am

Francoflier wrote:
Zkpilot wrote:
Apparently several senior politicians in the U.K. Including the PM have said they would defend Gibraltar (including war) if Spain tries to invade post Brexit.


Ok. This, along with the title of your thread and most of the replies, is absurd.

Never has Spain remotely threatened to invade Gibraltar, and a few politicians on the UK side, mostly of the populist and pro-Brexit side, decided to bring up references to the Falkland wars in what seems to be a pre-negotiations chest-thumping game.

This is why the World is so messed up these days. We are literally looking for every little excuse to jump at each other's throats, and mostly for insignificant absurdities that get blown out of proportions by those who seek to be heard.

This will get dealt with through negotiation, like the rest of Brexit, or everything else. Let's just let the politicians do their thing, drama and all.
Although I wouldn't say this is the best way for the UK to bring itself the favors of Spain or the rest of the EU ahead of negotiations. Where's that good old British phlegmatism and restrain? Aren't they the ones usually criticizing their former colony across the pond for this kind of brash impulsiveness?

Anyhow, here's a little dispassionate read about the spat:
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-39478636


It is more a reaction to the failure of the Brexit leaders, because they did not mention Gibraltar once in the Brexit letter to the EU and they are pissed that Spain got diplomatic backing in the EU to have the final say about the border with Gibraltar, just like Ireland will have the final say about the border with Northern Ireland.(which will be the next thing the British politicians will explode about)

Imho this was just another example to show the value of the EU. A retired politicians talks about war between Spain and the UK on his sofa and the current political leadership does not distance themselves from this and some citizens even support the idea. An idea which has been unthinkable since the EU was established, but I think it comes with a government who drops reason for nationalistic feelings.
 
P1aneMad
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Re: Spain threatens Gibraltar post Brexit, UK reminds them of Falklands...

Tue Apr 04, 2017 5:44 am

Just for argument's sake, short of using nuclear weapons how exactly would the UK defend Gibraltar in an imaginary war with Spain?
 
Olddog
Posts: 343
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Re: Spain threatens Gibraltar post Brexit, UK reminds them of Falklands...

Tue Apr 04, 2017 6:00 am

Anyway Spain never threatened to invade Gibraltar... It is just some wacko UK politician with the help of garbage press that tries to distract people from the main negotiations.
 
planeophilic
Posts: 96
Joined: Thu May 07, 2015 6:18 pm

Re: Spain threatens Gibraltar post Brexit, UK reminds them of Falklands...

Tue Apr 04, 2017 6:13 am

seahawk wrote:
If Spain invades, the EU will help them, so the Uk will be defeated. The British Isles will be invaded and put under German control. You will all learn to speak Deutsch, drive on the right side of the road and use the metric system.

Or in other words, the British government is playing nationalistic card again in expectation of the hard deal the Brexit will bring.


*cough*An EU-Hating Trump Led America*cough*

left that out of your consideration, did ya now?
IQ 6969- If I wasn't addicted to Frog Porn, I would be perfect.
 
planeophilic
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Joined: Thu May 07, 2015 6:18 pm

Re: Spain threatens Gibraltar post Brexit, UK reminds them of Falklands...

Tue Apr 04, 2017 6:22 am

The Spanish will get their butts handed to them, for lack of a better term. For all those fantasizing about an EU-led war against the UK, remember, UK is still the primary power in Europe. Except Germany and France, other European militaries, including Spain, are just glorified Marching bands.

A EU-invasion of Gibraltar will prove right EVERY right-conspiracy theory, and an already anti- globalist, anti-UN Trump administration will immediately move. It will pull out all its forces from EU.The US will then nudge Russia to 'pressurize' and create an Eastern Front. Without US support, Germany and Eastern Europe will have barely any military to cover their own butts from the Bear.

Add to that the 1,000 year old challenge of crossing the English channel, in the face of British Vanguard class submarines, and an army that is not a marching band.
Europe will lose and Spain will be speaking a crazy dialect of Hispano-Russian within 20 years.
IQ 6969- If I wasn't addicted to Frog Porn, I would be perfect.
 
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seahawk
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Re: Spain threatens Gibraltar post Brexit, UK reminds them of Falklands...

Tue Apr 04, 2017 6:23 am

planeophilic wrote:
seahawk wrote:
If Spain invades, the EU will help them, so the Uk will be defeated. The British Isles will be invaded and put under German control. You will all learn to speak Deutsch, drive on the right side of the road and use the metric system.

Or in other words, the British government is playing nationalistic card again in expectation of the hard deal the Brexit will bring.


*cough*An EU-Hating Trump Led America*cough*

left that out of your consideration, did ya now?


I really can´t believe that anybody could take this post seriously, except for the last sentence.
Last edited by seahawk on Tue Apr 04, 2017 6:24 am, edited 2 times in total.
 
planeophilic
Posts: 96
Joined: Thu May 07, 2015 6:18 pm

Re: Spain threatens Gibraltar post Brexit, UK reminds them of Falklands...

Tue Apr 04, 2017 6:24 am

seahawk wrote:
planeophilic wrote:
seahawk wrote:
If Spain invades, the EU will help them, so the Uk will be defeated. The British Isles will be invaded and put under German control. You will all learn to speak Deutsch, drive on the right side of the road and use the metric system.

Or in other words, the British government is playing nationalistic card again in expectation of the hard deal the Brexit will bring.


*cough*An EU-Hating Trump Led America*cough*

left that out of your consideration, did ya now?


I really can´t believe that anybody could take this post seriously.


What's wrong? I said- and I repeat- that will an anti- globalist USA sit quietly while Europe attacks the sovereign territory of its oldest partner and ally? And if you are not considering the US in this equation, then what basis are you building your lego-fantasy-war on?
IQ 6969- If I wasn't addicted to Frog Porn, I would be perfect.
 
Olddog
Posts: 343
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Re: Spain threatens Gibraltar post Brexit, UK reminds them of Falklands...

Tue Apr 04, 2017 6:28 am

You should not post while drunk you know?
 
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seahawk
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Re: Spain threatens Gibraltar post Brexit, UK reminds them of Falklands...

Tue Apr 04, 2017 6:37 am

planeophilic wrote:
seahawk wrote:
planeophilic wrote:

*cough*An EU-Hating Trump Led America*cough*

left that out of your consideration, did ya now?


I really can´t believe that anybody could take this post seriously.


What's wrong? I said- and I repeat- that will an anti- globalist USA sit quietly while Europe attacks the sovereign territory of its oldest partner and ally? And if you are not considering the US in this equation, then what basis are you building your lego-fantasy-war on?


Seems like the British not only lost their countenance but also their sense for humour and sarcasm.
 
planeophilic
Posts: 96
Joined: Thu May 07, 2015 6:18 pm

Re: Spain threatens Gibraltar post Brexit, UK reminds them of Falklands...

Tue Apr 04, 2017 7:41 am

seahawk wrote:
planeophilic wrote:
seahawk wrote:

I really can´t believe that anybody could take this post seriously.


What's wrong? I said- and I repeat- that will an anti- globalist USA sit quietly while Europe attacks the sovereign territory of its oldest partner and ally? And if you are not considering the US in this equation, then what basis are you building your lego-fantasy-war on?


Seems like the British not only lost their countenance but also their sense for humour and sarcasm.


Whoa...was this a sarcastic post?

My 'pologies, then, sir.
IQ 6969- If I wasn't addicted to Frog Porn, I would be perfect.
 
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seahawk
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Re: Spain threatens Gibraltar post Brexit, UK reminds them of Falklands...

Tue Apr 04, 2017 8:36 am

planeophilic wrote:
seahawk wrote:
planeophilic wrote:

What's wrong? I said- and I repeat- that will an anti- globalist USA sit quietly while Europe attacks the sovereign territory of its oldest partner and ally? And if you are not considering the US in this equation, then what basis are you building your lego-fantasy-war on?


Seems like the British not only lost their countenance but also their sense for humour and sarcasm.


Whoa...was this a sarcastic post?

My 'pologies, then, sir.


I thought it was obvious, when saying the UK could be forced to use the metric system... or drive on the right side of the road...
 
JJJ
Posts: 2517
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 5:12 pm

Re: Spain threatens Gibraltar post Brexit, UK reminds them of Falklands...

Tue Apr 04, 2017 8:48 am

seahawk wrote:
planeophilic wrote:
seahawk wrote:

Seems like the British not only lost their countenance but also their sense for humour and sarcasm.


Whoa...was this a sarcastic post?

My 'pologies, then, sir.


I thought it was obvious, when saying the UK could be forced to use the metric system... or drive on the right side of the road...


Gibraltar does drive on the right, though :D
 
Bostrom
Posts: 313
Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2016 7:11 pm

Re: Spain threatens Gibraltar post Brexit, UK reminds them of Falklands...

Tue Apr 04, 2017 9:29 am

JJJ wrote:
seahawk wrote:
planeophilic wrote:

Whoa...was this a sarcastic post?

My 'pologies, then, sir.


I thought it was obvious, when saying the UK could be forced to use the metric system... or drive on the right side of the road...


Gibraltar does drive on the right, though :D


But Gibraltar is not part of the UK :)

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