Unmarried western couple detained in UAE for "unlawful sex"

moo · Wed Mar 08, 2017 4:16 pm

An unmarried but engaged western couple have been arrested in the UAE for "unlawful sex" after it was discovered that the woman was pregnant.

A South African man and his Ukrainian fiancee have been detained in the United Arab Emirates for unlawful sex, a relative says.

Emlyn Culverwell‚ 29, and Iryna Nohai, 27, were reportedly arrested after a doctor discovered Ms Nohai, who had stomach cramps, was pregnant.

They were arrested for sex outside of marriage, which is illegal in the UAE.

They were long term residents of the UAE, so this isnt a case of the pregnancy occurring outside the country either.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-39208946

You really need to pay attention to the laws of the country you are in, even if they seem ridiculous...

pvjin · Wed Mar 08, 2017 4:17 pm

moo wrote:
You really need to pay attention to the laws of the country you are in, even if they seem ridiculous...

Yep, "When in Rome, do as the Romans do" is an ages old principle and still valid.

rfields5421 · Wed Mar 08, 2017 4:33 pm

Something they taught us long ago in the US Navy.

Understand and respect/ follow the laws of the country you are visiting/ living.

No matter how stupid. Because they are laws and they can punish you for breaking them.

Pyrex · Wed Mar 08, 2017 7:59 pm

Man, this hits close to home... some friends of mine did their honeymoon in Dubai (partly) a few years ago. I was a best man at their wedding but I messed up the witnessing process (long story...) and they only found out they were not yet technically / legally married until they came back from their honeymoon and had to sort out some paperwork. I jokingly told them that thanks to me there was probably a fatwah against them in Dubai right now, but perhaps it was no joke...

PanHAM · Thu Mar 09, 2017 6:28 am

Such laws are against Basic human rights.

What happens behind closed doors is no f...ing Business of any state

mham001 · Thu Mar 09, 2017 7:05 am

PanHAM wrote:
Such laws are against Basic human rights.

What happens behind closed doors is no f...ing Business of any state

This is much, much more than just a state.

PanHAM · Thu Mar 09, 2017 7:29 am

call it Country, Religion , whatever. just fill in and the sentence reains valid. Individuals have individual rights that standa above any law, be that religious or worldly.

tommy1808 · Thu Mar 09, 2017 7:54 am

PanHAM wrote:
Such laws are against Basic human rights.

What happens behind closed doors is no f...ing Business of any state

It certainly is a violation of very basic human rights, but also a bit of a high horse. It is not like sodomy laws didn´t exists in western countries until very recently, and we have hundreds of years of humanism behind us, not a century from desert dwelling barbarians to modern society.

best regards
Thomas

L410Turbolet · Thu Mar 09, 2017 8:23 am

tommy1808 wrote:
not a century from desert dwelling barbarians to modern society.

Building skyscrapers (thanks to western mercenaries and enslavement of other muslims) or driving ferraris instead of camels does not constitute a modern society. The mentality has - quite obviously - not changed much.

TheFlyingDisk · Thu Mar 09, 2017 8:36 am

As a Muslim I find this totally abhorrent and unbecoming of an Islamic country. Granted premarital sex is forbidden in Islam but these people aren't Muslims. They should not be subject to the same laws as Muslims. I feel the same way with Saudi Arabia's ban of practicing other religion for foreigners.

It shames me to see Arabs being the poster child for the Muslim faith because they have not been living to the true teachings of Islam for a while now.

tommy1808 · Thu Mar 09, 2017 8:58 am

L410Turbolet wrote:
The mentality has - quite obviously - not changed much.

Because they are a few decades behind, mind you it is not so long ago that you yourself lived in a dictatorship if you are old enough, in a multiple century progress?

There is no question if the human rights situation is disgusting down there, it is just hilariously arrogant to pretend that we are lightyears ahead, when it more often than not is just less than one Generation.

best regards
Thomas

tommy1808 · Thu Mar 09, 2017 8:59 am

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
but these people aren't Muslims. They should not be subject to the same laws as Muslims.

lets talk about that when Muslims in western countries can marry multiple wifes. They are not Christians after all...

best regards
Thomas

PanHAM · Thu Mar 09, 2017 9:32 am

they can . Tommy, they don't ask, they just do it. And they can Claim benefits for the whole Family, 30+ People. Source FAZ, not some Brainfart or what the Name of that Trump blog is.

UltimoTiger777 · Thu Mar 09, 2017 12:56 pm

pvjin wrote:
moo wrote:
You really need to pay attention to the laws of the country you are in, even if they seem ridiculous...

Yep, "When in Rome, do as the Romans do" is an ages old principle and still valid.

That would mean going to the UAE and imposing your own views and ways on them.

Because that's exactly what the Romans did for a large chunk of their history, going around invading and imposing their ways on other people.

In fact, there's so many westerners living in the UAE, I'm surprised no one has taken a leaf out of your idols book and annexed it like he did Crimea.

pvjin · Thu Mar 09, 2017 2:07 pm

UltimoTiger777 wrote:
That would mean going to the UAE and imposing your own views and ways on them.

Because that's exactly what the Romans did for a large chunk of their history, going around invading and imposing their ways on other people.

In fact, there's so many westerners living in the UAE, I'm surprised no one has taken a leaf out of your idols book and annexed it like he did Crimea.

Sure, the Romans liked to impose their ways over others because they could. But at the same time they didn't tolerate disrespect from foreigners towards their rules and laws, which is exactly what Dubai is doing.

I do agree though that somebody should go and annex Dubai. Colonialism was pretty cool, apart from slave trade and unnecessary violence towards populations of colonized areas.

afcjets · Thu Mar 09, 2017 2:37 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
When the US (and the West overall) accept gay marriage as the law of the land without invoking "religious freedom objections", when (as an atheist) I'm not shamed/criticized for saying happy holidays instead of Merry Christmas, when my morals are no longer judged to be inferior because I choose to enjoy my Sunday instead of being inside a building listening to someone on how to live my life, when Christians stop cherrypicking the Bible to justify their behavior (for better or worse)...that's the day I will definitely agree with the statement of saying that Muslim countries are backward.

I personally see no difference except that Christian countries are more civilized. But remember: it wasn't too long ago that we had laws telling which races could marry which races, so the idea of having a law that bans premarital sex isn't so crazy (especially for the religious folks...you know...because the Bible is everything to them...except the parts they like to ignore).

None so blind as those who will not see.

Wrong on several levels. First of all, less than 20% of Americans regularly attend church. That means more than 80% are like you and do not. And while almost a tie, more Americans think stores should actually use Happy Holidays vs. Merry Christmas (47% vs. 46%) , which is probably why you admit you have never been shamed for saying Happy Holidays. Even if you had, I personally would rather have someone judge me for how I greet them in December than be arrested for getting my fiance pregnant, but that's just me. I am sure the most evolved PC groupthink liberal mindset though could argue how it is 1000 times worse though so go for it.

http://www.prri.org/research/poll-post- ... christmas/

L410Turbolet · Thu Mar 09, 2017 3:37 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
1. Christmas lost its meaning LONG ago. It's been commercialized to such an extent that to me, Christmas Day itself just feels like a regular day. The joy I'd feel on that day while growing up is no longer there. And the days leading up to it are not "magical" anymore. I'm not religious so I couldn't care less about "putting Christ back in Christmas", but there was always something about the season that made it worth experiencing. Now it's just commercials and sales.

That's nonsense. Christmas is and has always been a private/family affair and it's only up to you what YOUR christmas will be like.

VSMUT · Thu Mar 09, 2017 3:57 pm

When in Rome, do as the Romans. It's not their country, they can either accept the rules or find someplace else.

By the way:

moo wrote:
An unmarried but engaged western couple...
...A South African man and his Ukrainian fiancee...

South Africa and Ukraine can hardly be described as "Western".

casinterest · Thu Mar 09, 2017 4:00 pm

VSMUT wrote:
When in Rome, do as the Romans. It's not their country, they can either accept the rules or find someplace else.

By the way:

moo wrote:
An unmarried but engaged western couple...
...A South African man and his Ukrainian fiancee...

South Africa and Ukraine can hardly be described as "Western".

When you are in Dubai, those countries are "Western" geographically

ExDubai · Thu Mar 09, 2017 4:38 pm

Hmm.... The guy is already 5 years in AD. So he should no the rules. Sometimes it's a wise decision to have a look what kind of nationality has your doctor. At least that was the way we have done it.

ExDubai · Thu Mar 09, 2017 4:40 pm

casinterest wrote:
VSMUT wrote:
When in Rome, do as the Romans. It's not their country, they can either accept the rules or find someplace else.

By the way:

moo wrote:
An unmarried but engaged western couple...
...A South African man and his Ukrainian fiancee...

South Africa and Ukraine can hardly be described as "Western".

When you are in Dubai, those countries are "Western" geographically

In the case of SA i'd call it southwest

moo · Thu Mar 09, 2017 4:41 pm

VSMUT wrote:
When in Rome, do as the Romans. It's not their country, they can either accept the rules or find someplace else.

By the way:

moo wrote:
An unmarried but engaged western couple...
...A South African man and his Ukrainian fiancee...

South Africa and Ukraine can hardly be described as "Western".

I disagree - the description was used to invoke a sense of what type of culture the people involved come from, and they are both western cultures.

VSMUT · Thu Mar 09, 2017 6:58 pm

PanHAM wrote:
Such laws are against Basic human rights.

What happens behind closed doors is no f...ing Business of any state

On the list of human rights abuses committed in that place, not allowing unmarried couples to have sex ranks VERY low on the list.

TheF15Ace wrote:
Plenty of unmarried people have sex here. The trick is not to get caught.

What do UAE/Dubai laws state regarding non-married couples having sex outside the country, say on a holiday to Europe? Wouldn't it be pretty easy to just claim that you were abroad when it happened?

TheF15Ace · Thu Mar 09, 2017 7:27 pm

VSMUT wrote:

What do UAE/Dubai laws state regarding non-married couples having sex outside the country, say on a holiday to Europe? Wouldn't it be pretty easy to just claim that you were abroad when it happened?

I think you'll still run into trouble. Especially if you're living in Dubai. Most people get caught either the way it happened here by getting pregnant and being ratted out by the doctor, or if some nosy prick thinks two people are not married and decide to make noise about it. Though the second instance is not exclusive to premarital sex. I almost never even kiss my girlfriend in public places in case someone sees and decides to complain. The area I live in is fairly up market and is mostly full of western expats or upper class locals who are generally more open minded but all it takes is one complaint to get you into hot water.

Don't get me wrong, compared to the rest of the ME, Dubai is not bad. But occasionally things like this do happen and everybody gets a cold reminder that these kind of laws still do exist.

B777LRF · Fri Mar 10, 2017 7:31 am

Let's not forget, this is the same country which hosts, at any given time, upwards of 25.000 'ladies of the night', whilst also being the un-official gay capitol of the Middle East. Just to clarify, I'm not cool about the former but couldn't care less about the latter.

When it comes to having sex, straight or gay, nobody does hypocrisy better than the UAE.

TheF15Ace · Fri Mar 10, 2017 8:01 am

B777LRF wrote:
When it comes to having sex, straight or gay, nobody does hypocrisy better than the UAE.

I don't think anyone can summarize this topic any better.

ExDubai · Fri Mar 10, 2017 10:25 pm

VSMUT wrote:
PanHAM wrote:
Such laws are against Basic human rights.

What happens behind closed doors is no f...ing Business of any state

On the list of human rights abuses committed in that place, not allowing unmarried couples to have sex ranks VERY low on the list.

TheF15Ace wrote:
Plenty of unmarried people have sex here. The trick is not to get caught.

What do UAE/Dubai laws state regarding non-married couples having sex outside the country, say on a holiday to Europe? Wouldn't it be pretty easy to just claim that you were abroad when it happened?

Will not help. Pregnant and single is a "NoGo" in the UAE. That's the reason why you should have a close look at the nationality of your doctor.

AirPacific747 · Fri Mar 10, 2017 10:29 pm

lol, ooops! My girlfriend and I were in Dubai last year while she was visibly pregnant and we had sex a few times down there too..

ExDubai · Sat Mar 11, 2017 9:37 am

AirPacific747 wrote:
lol, ooops! My girlfriend and I were in Dubai last year while she was visibly pregnant and we had sex a few times down there too..

Tourist and resident is the answer. As a resident you're in trouble when your girlfriend is pregnant. Jail time, job gone and deportation is the worst case.

LJ · Sat Mar 11, 2017 1:33 pm

ExDubai wrote:
AirPacific747 wrote:
lol, ooops! My girlfriend and I were in Dubai last year while she was visibly pregnant and we had sex a few times down there too..

Tourist and resident is the answer. As a resident you're in trouble when your girlfriend is pregnant. Jail time, job gone and deportation is the worst case.

Yet that would only increase the hypocrisy of UAE.

The only reason why this will not result in a row is that a South African and Ukrainian are involved. I wonder if a Western-European or American would have been involved they would detain them as well (as it would create a lot of bad pubiicity in those countries).

TS-IOR · Sat Mar 11, 2017 4:01 pm

Laws and rules, and the oath of Hippocrates exist to prohibit revealing information about patients..unless instructed by a judge or police for example. I don't know if things are different in the wonderland of Dubai.

ExDubai · Sat Mar 11, 2017 6:59 pm

LJ wrote:
ExDubai wrote:
AirPacific747 wrote:
lol, ooops! My girlfriend and I were in Dubai last year while she was visibly pregnant and we had sex a few times down there too..

Tourist and resident is the answer. As a resident you're in trouble when your girlfriend is pregnant. Jail time, job gone and deportation is the worst case.

Yet that would only increase the hypocrisy of UAE.

The only reason why this will not result in a row is that a South African and Ukrainian are involved. I wonder if a Western-European or American would have been involved they would detain them as well (as it would create a lot of bad pubiicity in those countries).

Happend also to "western european" nationals in the UAE. There are a lot of cases with bad press, but shiny luxury Dubai attracts still a lot of people.

ExDubai · Sat Mar 11, 2017 7:02 pm

TS-IOR wrote:
Laws and rules, and the oath of Hippocrates exist to prohibit revealing information about patients..unless instructed by a judge or police for example. I don't know if things are different in the wonderland of Dubai.

Thins a running very different "in the wonderland of Dubai". That's why I said choose your doc wisely and have a look at his nationality. Live is much easier in such cases when you have a doc from Europe.

moo · Sat Mar 11, 2017 9:20 pm

TS-IOR wrote:
Laws and rules, and the oath of Hippocrates exist to prohibit revealing information about patients..unless instructed by a judge or police for example. I don't know if things are different in the wonderland of Dubai.

You realise most doctors in western cultures don't swear the hippocratic oath, right?

The US and France are notable exceptions, but doctors in the UK definitely do not swear the hippocratic oath...

And if the law in Dubai requires notification in these cases, then there's your "laws and rules" which you speak of - in the UK, doctors are required to notify the authorities in certain circumstances, even against the wishes of the patient, and even if notification harms the patient.

tommy1808 · Wed Mar 15, 2017 11:06 am

moo wrote:
The US and France are notable exceptions, but doctors in the UK definitely do not swear the hippocratic oath...

In Germany it is optional. Interessting that the US has it, considering that the legal and educational framework basically doesn't allow US doctors to keep it. After all they would be required to teach other wannebe doctors for free, and they have to call the cops, even when it is bad for everyone involved.

Best regards
Thomas

LAX772LR · Fri Mar 17, 2017 10:53 pm

PanHAM wrote:
call it Country, Religion , whatever. just fill in and the sentence reains valid. Individuals have individual rights that standa above any law, be that religious or worldly.

That's sounds awesome in theory. But that's all it is.

Try enforcing that, and you're in for quite a reality shock.

Unmarried western couple detained in UAE for "unlawful sex"

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