http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-39085235

Has this happened before. Apparently they were banned so that others could be allowed in.

Were those not allowed in the ones accused of fake news before?

It seems that they want to ban people who they disagree with from the press briefings. What seems to be the case is that trump and his administration and the whole puppet master are basically scared of a different viewpoint and so need a safe space, they are essentially snowflakes.

Fred

sbworcs wrote:

Were those not allowed in the ones accused of fake news before?

Yes they were.

What we see here is a clear attempt to intimidate the press into not being critical of the administration anymore.

All we need to do now is wait for the Trump apologist colony to wake up and start defending this move, more than likely claiming something along the lines of 'Obama did this too'.

Which he didn't.

In some instances this tactic could work, and it might work with right-wing media on the fence with Trump, who would censor themselves to stay on the good side of the administration.

For CNN and the like, however, this will only help them thrive. Interesting information doesn't come from press briefings anyway.

Considering how those mainstream media news outlet so much like to call any source with different views "fake news", I think they got exactly the treatment they deserved. For past years it's the western mainstream media which is constantly delivering the most biased news out there, there are no journalistic standards whatsoever left.

This is a very clever idea from them. China would be proud.

Remember, now that this is happening, it will be the future normal procedure.

Hopefully Trump will takeover US medua outlets who are critical of his administration. Conservatives here will surely agree with that?

(silence, crickets chirping...)

So Trump is at war with some of the media. When will it be enough for the American people. The presidency of Trump has been a disaster, he has shown to be undemocratic, attacking the judges and media. In the end it will be at a cost, either with other countries and/or with Americans. At least Trump isn't loosing: trips of his and his sons cost the American taxpayers a fortune (10m / 5 weeks --> Obama nearly 100m for 8 years) and let his wife and son live in NYC is costing NY a fortune (200m / year) and funfact, some of the money American taxpayers pay ends up in the pocket of Trump, interesting isn't it.

pvjin wrote:

Considering how those mainstream media news outlet so much like to call any source with different views "fake news", I think they got exactly the treatment they deserved. For past years it's the western mainstream media which is constantly delivering the most biased news out there, there are no journalistic standards whatsoever left.

Putin will be proud for such a comment, well done.

Scorpio wrote:

Which he didn't.

Except that he apparently did, if you trust fake news sources that is. The box fits you well.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/04/us/p ... d=tw-share

The "outrage" is more fake news. Wake up America.The mainstream media is indeed your enemy.

MSPNWA wrote:

Wake up America.The mainstream media is indeed your enemy.

Because of their integrity I guess?

In recent years, Times beat reporters have generally declined invitations to private sessions with the president

Best regards
Thomas

tommy1808 wrote:

Because of their integrity I guess?

Since when has "integrity" meant spreading news that are heavily biased in favour of neoliberal world view? What I expect the media to deliver is a balanced world view that lets different viewpoints to be heard, and usually I'm not getting that.

It's all black and white in the mainstream media:

- Putin, Russia and Assad are evil, those who oppose them are good freedom fighters
- White Christian/Atheist heterosexual men are evil privileged creatures while blacks, sexual minorities, women and Muslims are good, peaceful and tolerant people who are oppressed by the earlier mentioned group
- Multiculturalism is always good, ethnically homogeneous societies are bad even though most of the world's most successful societies are homogeneous ones.
-The EU is good, nation states are bad. Those who oppose the EU are stupid racist nationalists who hate democracy because they aren't willing to move even more of the power to Brussels, further away from ordinary people.
-Free trade is always a good thing

MSPNWA wrote:

Scorpio wrote:

Which he didn't.

Except that he apparently did, if you trust fake news sources that is. The box fits you well.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/04/us/p ... d=tw-share

The "outrage" is more fake news. Wake up America.The mainstream media is indeed your enemy.

Funny, that's the exact same link some other Trumpie posted on another board, more than likely because it's what right-wing sites are feeding you guys as 'evidence'. I'll copy-paste my reply:

You're comparing apples and oranges. What Obama, and pretty much every president before him, did was use certain press to his advantage to 'leak' info to by giving them little exclusives. That's always happened.

What happened here was that very specific news outlets were deliberately excluded from a press gaggle, an off camera, on the record replacement for the daily press briefings, accessible for all WH journalists. Fox News even came out and condemned this move by Trump/Spicer on the air in several programs, and joined the official complaint by the White House Correspondents' Association. They would not be doing that if what happened here was normal WH behavior. Your beloved Fox News has even repeatedly condemned Trump calling CNN, nytimes etc. 'fake news', a meaningless term he simply uses to try and damage anyone critical of him.

I think Mr Trump is on a slippery slope. Eventually he will go too far and we will wake up to the news of a JFK style bumping off

Donald is really losing it now, in respect to UK media, I can understand his not wanting to brief the BBC, their stance is not as he would wish, but also banning the Daily Mail ? This is a newspaper that has generally been the most supportive in the UK to him, and has a huge on line presence. if however you look further into the matter, the Mail is presently being chased by Melania Trump over previous reporting

MSPNWA wrote:

The mainstream media is indeed your enemy.

The "mainstream media" is a free press in action.
One can only wonder if you are aware of the betrayal of the experiment launched by George Washington et al that you are engaging in.

MSPNWA wrote:

Scorpio wrote:

Which he didn't.

Except that he apparently did, if you trust fake news sources that is. The box fits you well.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/04/us/p ... d=tw-share

The "outrage" is more fake news. Wake up America.

You are comparing apples to oranges here. The case in point was a press briefing which is the official channel for how our government communicates with the people. Selectively releasing information to chosen outlets is press manipulation plain and simple. The case you bring up was not a press event, it was specifically not for publication. Instead it was a conversation by the President to receptive members of the press given to provide background for ongoing stories. The President has the right to have these kinds of conversations, the link you provided described them as "a White House tradition".

The answer is simple - ALL media should boycott the briefings until the ban is lifted. If Fox is criticising it, you know it's a bad move.

As with everything else in this administration, they said/did the opposite recently:

"In December, Spicer said barring media access is what a ‘dictatorship’ does. Today, he barred media access."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/pol ... a667ee6948

MSPNWA wrote:

Except that he apparently did, if you trust fake news sources that is.

You, and apparently many people on this thread, have a couple things confused.

1) Off the record background briefings - as described in your link. All presidents, administrations, congressmen, senators, etc - hold occasional off the record briefings for the press. They can be as simple as going over the logistics details for an upcoming event - including press security requirements. Or floating trial balloons of possible policy ideas, or giving a favorite reporter/ news source a heads up on a potential story. The Trump administration has been holding some of those informally from the first day in the White House. It is nothing new nor what the 'concern' is about.

2) The Daily Press Briefing - a hallowed event in the White House Press Corps. The bread and butter event of the reporters assigned full-time to the White House. Spicer held a limited briefing in his office, which excluded several of the most senior media members, but included some new media members.

Seniority is everything to the White House Press Corps. It determines who gets approx. 35 of the 40 media seats on AF-1, who gets the first interview with a new president, etc. The initial invitation list did not follow the seniority rules.

Spicer revised the invitation list under pressure from the press corps to include the Press Pool.

The reason given for a small group daily press briefing in Spicer's office was that with the President attending an out of town even covered by part of the White House Press Corps there was no need for a full presentation in the briefing room.

This was a NEW concept from the White House (one question on many forums/ discussions related to new media operations - is this a signal that Spicer is on his way out? Because traditionally the person in his job accompanies the Presidential group to the event being held - not staying back at the White House while the big news is at the speech.)

-------------------

For those who do not know - the White House Press Corps Press Pool is a group selected by the members of the press corps. It includes one print media reporter, one photographer, one broadcast media team - reporter, camera operator, sound tech, one wire service reporter. There has been talk about including one on-line media member but I don't know if that change has gone into effect.

Whenever the White House determines an event or coverage of the day's events has to be limited due to logistics or security reasons - the Press Pool is the media which covers the event.

Every single thing the members of the pool write, prepare, record, etc - is first distributed to the rest of the White House Press Corps - only then can it be broadcast/ printed/ posted. The coverage of Trump at the club in Palm Beach and on the golf course with the Japanese PM was provided by the coverage we saw.

In order to be on the press pool - the person must be a full-time member of the White House Press Corps - they cannot be covering any 'beat' except the White House. They have to pass an FBI background check and a DOD/NSA security check. The active pool is rotated - and the members of the White House Press Corps decide who is in the pool and how the rotation occurs.

The Press Pool may have more than one pool group active. When President George W Bush flew to Iraq several Thanksgivings ago - the Press Pool was activated under previously agreed upon security arrangements. When the reporters arrived at the White House for their daily work - they quickly realized that the security pool members were not present. They knew that something was up, but could not even inform their editors that the pool had been activated. Under the rules agreement - the press cannot report/ disclose that the pool has been activated. Those still in the White House just have to wait for the story to be released by the White House Press Office and the pool members.

The White House Press Pool is separate from the DOD operational press pool. Those members must be US citizens who have passed security investigations and have been given clearance for Secret Level classified material. That pool is really composed of two to five teams made up of the identical composition of the White House Press Pool - but have 'day' jobs covering various news sources in the DC area. Some are actually based outside DC.

When DOD activates their pool - previously cleared senior editors of the news organization are notified that their reporters will be gone for approximately X number of days. The reporters are gathered at Andrews and flown to the area of DOD operations for coverage.

That DOD pool is activated at least quarterly for DOD exercises, but has been activated for actual events a few times. Just like the military they will be covering, they have to practice the rapid deployment procedures.

OA260 wrote:

I think Mr Trump is on a slippery slope. Eventually he will go too far and we will wake up to the news of a JFK style bumping off

after seeing Bannon in action at CPAC. Good Gawd. There is no need for anyone to take out Trump. The problem is Steve Bannon
He is why fascism is coming to America.

It is quite interesting that the Great Divide is going here at A.Net.
Can we open a conservative thread and respectfully ask liberals not to post there?
Nationality/ethnicity/race would be irrelevant.

pylon101 wrote:

It is quite interesting that the Great Divide is going here at A.Net.
Can we open a conservative thread and respectfully ask liberals not to post there?
Nationality/ethnicity/race would be irrelevant.

So you're asking for a safe space...?

What I find funny, sad, and seemingly disingenuous is the people that in the recent past decried what the government and administration said and did would always called for investigation and counter information to be presented. Clearly wanting more and saying it was needed to validate what was being said. Yet now apparently these same people are trusting everything the government and administration is putting out and saying. And in fact are now complaining about counter and investigative information being presented.

That screams "fake" to me, it means those people don't actually believe what they were touting before. Government, and every administration, MUST have counter force investigating and looking into things. That is why the press and confidential sources and "leaks" etc. are good and important overall. There may be times when things can be detrimental on specific things but otherwise it is critical and important.

The free press, and the freedom to pursue and extract information is vitally important and when that is attack it deserves to be defended.

Tugg

I am just tired to argue with libies. There are so many issues to discuss. We are witnessing the dramatic end of an epoch started after WW2.
It is going to be a new world.
But libies got stuck in their loop - and keep running around.

Press gets banned from briefings all the time. There is limited space in the White House press briefing room, so the number of journalists actually able to attend is always a lot smaller than that of those wanting to attend. Traditionally the White House has solved that issue by letting the journalists themselves decide who gets in and who does not, but there is no reason why that should be the case.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-vs-t ... 1480279305

Dutchy wrote:

So Trump is at war with some of the media. When will it be enough for the American people.

For a majority of us, it is enough. 60-65% of us do not approve of the job that #45 is doing. But there's not much we can do until 2020. In 2018 it will be difficult for the DNC to gain seats in the Senate and the House is still gerrymandered so that the GOP will almost certainly retain control regardless of the vote.

This isn't how it's supposed to work.

DocLightning wrote:

Dutchy wrote:

So Trump is at war with some of the media. When will it be enough for the American people.

For a majority of us, it is enough. 60-65% of us do not approve of the job that #45 is doing. But there's not much we can do until 2020. In 2018 it will be difficult for the DNC to gain seats in the Senate and the House is still gerrymandered so that the GOP will almost certainly retain control regardless of the vote.

This isn't how it's supposed to work.

Well, don't you think that if Trump continues the way he does, Republicans in congress will fear for their seats, regardless of the gerrymandering? Don't you think that the Republicans will impeach Trump in a years time? I think they will, but I am an outsider

Pyrex wrote:

Traditionally the White House has solved that issue by letting the journalists themselves decide who gets in and who does not, but there is no reason why that should be the case.

There is a very good strong reason that the White House should not get involved in the decisions about who attends the open briefings.

When the press itself decides the attendance there is no room for them to criticize the President for playing favorites or trying to manipulate the press.

When the White House chooses the attendees, the President plays right into the hands of people crying censorship and coverups.

Yes, traditional media outlets have most of the permanent seats. Mainly because they are willing to devote the money and other resources necessary to provide daily coverage.

That in no way limits or prevents the President/ White House from exclusive interviews and briefings with certain journalists/ media outlets.

Even Richard Nixon was smart enough to leave the daily press briefings attendance to the press.

Spicer had turned the briefings into a daily shouting match, and a hostile environment. That is exactly why he was fired by the US Navy Chief of Information. He could not stay on topic, he wanted to argue not deliver information and he refused to follow the orders of his commanding officers.

As someone who spent many years in that USN environment and still knows personally and professionally many of those in that job today, we've all been watching Spicer, and even the strongest Trump supporters have said what was he thinking putting Spicer in that role.

MSPNWA wrote:

Scorpio wrote:

Which he didn't.

Except that he apparently did, if you trust fake news sources that is. The box fits you well.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/04/us/p ... d=tw-share

The "outrage" is more fake news. Wake up America.The mainstream media is indeed your enemy.

ZERO integrity meets ZERO integrity. Horray!

With Obama and Killary the agendas were better aligned. so what you now see is depravity fighting depravitiy.
And the way they appear to "tick" all parties involved will prefer a nice boom to getting to grips with their
disorders.

pvjin wrote:

Considering how those mainstream media news outlet so much like to call any source with different views "fake news", I think they got exactly the treatment they deserved. For past years it's the western mainstream media which is constantly delivering the most biased news out there, there are no journalistic standards whatsoever left.

I thought the rallying cry was that Trump is everybody's president?!?

Instead he himself shows why he's not my president -- he picked his press and kicked out the rest.

flipdewaf wrote:

It seems that they want to ban people who they disagree with from the press briefings.

No, this is actually more specific than that.

Who got kicked out of the press gaggle? Buzzfeed, the NY Times, the Washington Post, Politico, and CNN.

Buzzfeed put out the Steele dossier. The NY Times has reported on how Trump's lawyer has been doing behind-the-scenes deals with Russia relating to lifting of sanctions. The Washington Post has reported on how Michael Flynn was talking to Russian intelligence officials and lying about it (actions which eventually led to him leaving the National Security Advisor post). CNN reported on the Steele dossier and also reported that intelligence officials have been slowly confirming a lot of what is on it. Politico has done reporting on how Paul Manafort, Trump's former campaign manager with ties to Russia, faced blackmail attempts.

Plenty of other news outlets had coverage critical of Trump, but were not excluded. There's a common theme running through those who were: they're digging into ties with Russia. More smoke billows.

Why is Trump afraid of the press? It is nothing that any other President and administration has faced. It just seems like he has an issue and can't deal with it. It is sad because it really just exacerbates the situation and makes the press dig more. I also think it unifies more elements of the press to support and help the others.

Tugg

Not only is Trump banning some media outlets, Trump won't be attending the correspondents dinner either. Not much of a surprise really, since he is too thin skinned to handle what would certainly be one straight hour of jokes directed at him.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/art ... 2f11c39bef

Dutchy wrote:

DocLightning wrote:

Dutchy wrote:

So Trump is at war with some of the media. When will it be enough for the American people.

For a majority of us, it is enough. 60-65% of us do not approve of the job that #45 is doing. But there's not much we can do until 2020. In 2018 it will be difficult for the DNC to gain seats in the Senate and the House is still gerrymandered so that the GOP will almost certainly retain control regardless of the vote.

This isn't how it's supposed to work.

Well, don't you think that if Trump continues the way he does, Republicans in congress will fear for their seats, regardless of the gerrymandering? Don't you think that the Republicans will impeach Trump in a years time? I think they will, but I am an outsider

Many Republicans put party ahead of country. It would take moderates like John McCain and Lindsey Graham to break with the far right to do this. When/if they do, those two will be drummed out of the party.

And, the way the administration is going now, 2018 will probably flip both chambers of Congress just to have a check against absolute power.

never mind.

Is the press required anymore? Especially since Supreme Leader is tweeting the real news himself while the pseudo-sickular Presstitutes are sticking to lies & fakenews?

Very good step! Heil Trump!

seb146 wrote:

Many Republicans put party ahead of country. It would take moderates like John McCain and Lindsey Graham to break with the far right to do this. When/if they do, those two will be drummed out of the party.

1.) Just because they are criticizing Trump a bit doesn't make Graham and "Bomb Bomb Bomb Iran" McCain "moderate." Just because their desire to go to war with Russia is as great as their desire to go to war everywhere else doesn't mean they are moderate on foreign policy. Responsible people should be careful of falling into the trap of using the "useful tools" or "enemy of my enemy" situation to stop scrutinizing the people they are cozying up to.

2.) McCain talks but he has never actually ever voted to actually stop any right-wing agenda or nominee. What use is his talking till he puts his money where his mouth is?

What's funny (in a tragic sort of way) is how aides have to handle Trump.

They apparently have to feed him a constant stream of praise and compliments. They use his vanity to obtain what they need from him.
They have to pick the channels he watches so that he doesn't watch anything that would be critical of him and ruin his mood. Which is getting increasingly harder... especially for a man who spends an inordinate amount of time watching TV.

Essentially, the president is fed a constant stream of mostly FOX news - since it is the channel that approves of him the most - which seems to be his only source for information...

The man is moody and only responds to being complimented. He is literally handled the way zookeepers would handle a mentally unstable gorilla.
I've rarely witnessed such a massive and fragile ego in a World leader aside from a few African dictators. This is quite amazing... and scary.

n229nw wrote:

Just because their desire to go to war with Russia is as great as their desire to go to war everywhere else doesn't mean they are moderate on forign policy.

War with Russia? Don't be ridiculous.

There are several things any dictator needs to succeed. One is to silence than destroy the free press.

Hillis wrote:

There are several things anoy dictator needs to succeed. One is to silence than destroy the free press.

Lern from the best...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gleichschaltung

Best regards
Thomas

He called off the White house correspondant dinner, only 2 Presidents have done that before, Jimmy Carter and that had to do with the Iranian crisis IIRC and Richard Nixon for obvious reasons.
Trump is intellectually so flat that he could never deliver the expected speech, with self irony, he'd probably make it another campaign speech. Frightening to have someone with that state of mind as the leader of the western world, including a top advisor who wants to destroy that Status quo. Never thought that a mix of communism and fascism could prevail in the USA.
Hope that checks and balanced will work as a corrective and that the democratic minded in the Judiciary and the house will blow the whistle when the Breitfarts go ahead with the "Gleichschaltung".

To me the massive failure of many of the mainstream media to see before the election or accept the win by Trump as President and takeover of the Senate by the Republican party, hurt their credibility to many Americans and a shift by the Trump Administration to be friendly to those in the media that were more accepting of him. Problem is allowing those from the radical right wing biased and unprofessional media in and keeping out major newspapers and other mainstream media. Just wanting to have friendly media is nothing new, but Trump and his administration is bringing it to new levels that are unacceptable. For the Mainstream media, there are the economic pressures of not having access to the President and his staff that means they lose early leads on big stories and from that, consumer attention, ratings and revenues.

I don't understand why decades old WH traditions are now major issues??? From who sits in the front row to who gets the first question is biased unwritten rules. Obama didn't didn't treat every media outlet equally.

It was not an official press briefing, Spicy could have just invited the pool but extended to few more.

CNN should cover the news, not become news. They are doing lot more harm to already divided nation. Jake Tapper should take a chill pill.

Democrats turned into party of NO, which is a shame. They should remember Republicans didn't win by being party of NO, they won because Democrats didn't vote.

So now not participating in a round of circle-jerk with the press (i.e., the White House correspondents dinner) is somehow a bad thing? Do you even recall what happened the last time he attended? He was so pissed at the way they treated him there that he decided to run for President (and won). Are you sure you want him in attendance again?

And are you serious? People are pissed off that he left Buzzfeed out? Buzzfeed? Why is Buzzfeed in the White House Press Corps to begin with? They are just a bunch of clickbaiting garbage.

Pyrex wrote:

So now not participating in a round of circle-jerk with the press (i.e., the White House correspondents dinner) is somehow a bad thing?

It is when the only reason is "the press lies about everything all the time" and they have banned major legitimate news outlets from the WH press room. If there were a war on or he were very sick or something legitimate, we can forgive that. But, this is a whiny little orange baby who can not take criticism and would rather be on vacation than doing any work.

dtw2hyd wrote:

I don't understand why decades old WH traditions are now major issues??? From who sits in the front row to who gets the first question is biased unwritten rules. Obama didn't didn't treat every media outlet equally.

No. But he also never said "the media is the enemy of the people." Obama and presidents before him understood that media is there for We The People and not to stroke the president's ego.

flipdewaf wrote:

It seems that they want to ban people who they disagree with from the press briefings. What seems to be the case is that trump and his administration and the whole puppet master are basically scared of a different viewpoint and so need a safe space, they are essentially snowflakes.

snowflakes ?
This is much more sinister.
marginalize those that do not boost your position.
Make blatant partisan decissions even more socially acceptable.
Same for creating pariah groups.

At the end of this road is a fully fledged fascist Society. Everything subservient to corporate interests.

did anyone read RAHeinleins "Revolt in 2100" / "If this goes on"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolt_in_2100
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/If_This_Goes_On%E2%80%94

dtw2hyd wrote:

I don't understand why decades old WH traditions are now major issues??? From who sits in the front row to who gets the first question is biased unwritten rules. Obama didn't didn't treat every media outlet equally.

It was not an official press briefing, Spicy could have just invited the pool but extended to few more.

CNN should cover the news, not become news. They are doing lot more harm to already divided nation. Jake Tapper should take a chill pill.

Democrats turned into party of NO, which is a shame. They should remember Republicans didn't win by being party of NO, they won because Democrats didn't vote.

Obama didn't throw out any press.

And CNN didn't create this story. The current president did by trying to censor legitimate news sources, simply because they're doing their jobs.

Trump is coming across as bit thin skinned...

I posted this in another subject. but very apt for this topic


Spot the odd one out:

John F. Kennedy, 1961 – after he had been slated by the press over Bay of Pigs, and was asked as to whether he still read newspapers.

Oh, yes. No, no, I think it is invaluable, even though it may cause you—it is never pleasant to be reading things that are not agreeable news, but I would say that it is an invaluable arm of the presidency, as a check really on what is going on in the administration, and more things come to my attention that cause me concern or give me information. So I would think that Mr. Khrushchev operating a totalitarian system, which has many advantages as far as being able to move in secret, and all the rest—there is a terrific disadvantage not having the abrasive quality of the press applied to you daily, to an administration, even though we never like it, and even though we wish they didn't write it, and even though we disapprove, there isn't any doubt that we could not do the job at all in a free society without a very, very active press.

Thomas Jefferson, to Congress, 1787

The basis of our governments being the opinion of the people, the very first object should be to keep that right; and were it left to me to decide whether we should have a government without newspapers or newspapers without a government, I should not hesitate a moment to prefer the latter. But I should mean that every man should receive those papers and be capable of reading them.

Richard M. Nixon, to Henry Kissinger, December 1972.

The press is the enemy, the establishment is the enemy, the professors are the enemy.

seb146 wrote:

No. But he also never said "the media is the enemy of the people."

No but he said if he watches Fox News, he wouldn't vote for himself, with smooth jazz playing in the background.

seb146 wrote:

Obama and presidents before him understood that media is there for We The People and not to stroke the president's ego.

LOL, Press was doing exactly that for preferential treatment. I know know you will asking where is the evidence.

Not a single American media outlet questioned Bush about Iraq war, even though media from rest of world raising significant doubts about it. Whenever Obama had a major foobar, media buried the story.

Now CNN realized they are the torch bearers of free press in worlds oldest democracy.

Hillis wrote:

Obama didn't throw out any press.

Neither did Trump. It is not a press briefing, just an informal chat. Pool has just 13 reporters, should 100 others complain why they were not included in the pool.

If WH revokes CNN's press credentials and throw them out of premises, it is a ban. CNN by using the word ban created the story for themselves.