N867DA
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Re: How Trump treats other heads of state...

Fri Feb 03, 2017 12:55 am

The plan must be to anger and disrupt enough allies so that they get suspicious of America. With Bannon running the country, the goal is to create countries that tend to be extremely isolationist and nationalist. Free trade and immigration run against this plan, and it is easier to curtail both by speaking like a horse's ass to world leaders. These people want the EU to collapse and for international trade to level off or decline.

Trump is leading America to isolationism and then war.
A nation turns its lonely eyes to you
 
Sydscott
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Re: How Trump treats other heads of state...

Fri Feb 03, 2017 1:55 am

N867DA wrote:
The plan must be to anger and disrupt enough allies so that they get suspicious of America. With Bannon running the country, the goal is to create countries that tend to be extremely isolationist and nationalist. Free trade and immigration run against this plan, and it is easier to curtail both by speaking like a horse's ass to world leaders. These people want the EU to collapse and for international trade to level off or decline.

Trump is leading America to isolationism and then war.


The problem for them is that Free Trade will continue its March without the US. From the Asian side the RCEP will probably move quicker and the inclusion of both China and India into it will make it one of the most important multi-lateral trade treaties for the Asian region. https://bluenotes.anz.com/posts/2017/02 ... ive-trade/

The other thing to remember is that a significant number of countries have bilateral Free Trade Agreements with the United States. If Trump is going to back out of those as well he will have to re-negotiate them. If he fails to renegotiate them then that means a return to tariffs on a bilateral basis and if he does this enough he'll effectively withdraw America from world markets while other countries, especially in the Asian region, continue to open up and expand. That means less exports, less income and less jobs for the US.
 
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KruegerFlaps
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Re: How Trump treats other heads of state...

Fri Feb 03, 2017 2:31 am

DLFREEBIRD wrote:
if they pass the U.S. screening process.

If, being the operative word. There was not, and is not, a clear commitment to take a single person. Theorectocally, Trump could "invite" people who have been assessed as refugees to apply and then deny the application on the basis of a different security assessment. He would still be honoring the agreement.

Dreadnought wrote:
that is hardly a ringing endorsement.

Australia's decision is not based on any endorsement of the people concerned. It is a political consideration that is completely unrelated to any individual's status. They made a commitment to "stop the boat", following up with "not one maritime arrival will step foot in Australia." That left the problem of where to send them.

Initially Papua New Guinea said they would take some, until the PNG Supreme Court ruled that continued detention was unlawful. Hence the desperate scramble to find somewhere else.
Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves. - William Pitt Speech, 1783
 
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cpd
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Re: How Trump treats other heads of state...

Fri Feb 03, 2017 2:45 am

N867DA wrote:
The plan must be to anger and disrupt enough allies so that they get suspicious of America. With Bannon running the country, the goal is to create countries that tend to be extremely isolationist and nationalist. Free trade and immigration run against this plan, and it is easier to curtail both by speaking like a horse's ass to world leaders. These people want the EU to collapse and for international trade to level off or decline.

Trump is leading America to isolationism and then war.


Everyone else can just join together, trade together and work together and isolate Trump in his own little play-pen. Don't trade with them, don't deal with them. Don't fly there, etc. Just completely isolate them. That's the way to address this problem.
 
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Dreadnought
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Re: How Trump treats other heads of state...

Fri Feb 03, 2017 3:12 am

KruegerFlaps wrote:
Australia's decision is not based on any endorsement of the people concerned. It is a political consideration that is completely unrelated to any individual's status. They made a commitment to "stop the boat", following up with "not one maritime arrival will step foot in Australia." That left the problem of where to send them.


And the US is not allowed to say the same, even temporarily?
Democrats haven't been this angry since we took away their slaves.
 
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KruegerFlaps
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Re: How Trump treats other heads of state...

Fri Feb 03, 2017 3:22 am

Dreadnought wrote:
And the US is not allowed to say the same, even temporarily?

Have I suggested that? I have merely provided background information on the issues surrounding the original deal. Had Australia not insisted on off-shore processing, a decision as to whether an "agreement" is honoured would not have arisen.
Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves. - William Pitt Speech, 1783
 
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mariner
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Re: How Trump treats other heads of state...

Fri Feb 03, 2017 3:41 am

You'd think (or I would) that after all the hoo-has the White House Press Secretary would at least learn the Australian Prime Minister's name.

Think again:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/ar ... d=11794162

"The White House can't even get Aussie Prime Minister's name right

The administration's press secretary Sean Spicer repeatedly mispronounced the name of Australian Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull while addressing the media overnight.

Speaking at a White House briefing about the contested refugee deal, Mr Spicer made numerous references to a mysterious "Mr Trumble" as he confirmed it would be going ahead


The important takeaway is the he was confirming the deal would go ahead, despite the President's vociferous dislike of it. The media takeaway was, of course, all abut the mysterious "Mr. Trumble" to whom he kept referring.

I like a laugh, even if it is at the maladroit Mr. Spicer's expense. Image

mariner
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stratosphere
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Re: How Trump treats other heads of state...

Fri Feb 03, 2017 4:02 am

tommy1808 wrote:
alberchico wrote:
These stories can't possibly be true can they ???


Anyone still thinking he is mentally fit?

Best regards
Thomas


Like Angela Merkel is? You better stop worrying what is happening here and worry about your own backyard and stop these migrants before they ruin Germany like they are on there way to ruining Sweden the current rape capital of the EU thanks to your open door policy on refugees.
 
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Re: How Trump treats other heads of state...

Fri Feb 03, 2017 4:53 am

VSMUT wrote:
There is nothing "inhumane" about placing a refugee in a camp on a far-flung island.


If your understanding of human rights got stuck in the 19th century, you are right.
In the 20th century this concept of human dignity was invented and since then pretty much all locking away incampment is inhuman treatment.

Best regards
Thomas
Times are changing: 70 years ago the USA went to war to defeat the Nazis, now they elect them to run their country.
 
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cpd
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Re: How Trump treats other heads of state...

Fri Feb 03, 2017 5:01 am

There was a study on this incident from a psychology point of view.

Pointed out that the lack of response or muted comment from Turnbull was straight out of a psychology book.

I don't like Turnbull much, but he dealt with the situation in a very clever way.
 
VSMUT
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Re: How Trump treats other heads of state...

Fri Feb 03, 2017 9:56 am

tommy1808 wrote:
VSMUT wrote:
There is nothing "inhumane" about placing a refugee in a camp on a far-flung island.


If your understanding of human rights got stuck in the 19th century, you are right.
In the 20th century this concept of human dignity was invented and since then pretty much all locking away incampment is inhuman treatment.

Best regards
Thomas


Your understanding of immigration and how it affects society is stuck in the naive 90s and early 00s.

Fact is, economic migrants abuse the refugee system to force entry into whatever country they fancy milking the social benefits system of. That results in mistrust and hatred towards the true refugees, along with increased voting and support for far-right political parties. All of that ultimately results in conditions where actual refugees aren't accepted at all.

So either you tighten up the policy so that economic migrants stay away, or you go full-on Merkel style and end up with Marine le Pen as president because the population is fed up with immigrants and only the far-right offers a "solution".
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: How Trump treats other heads of state...

Fri Feb 03, 2017 10:48 am

mariner wrote:
You'd think (or I would) that after all the hoo-has the White House Press Secretary would at least learn the Australian Prime Minister's name.

Think again:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/ar ... d=11794162

"The White House can't even get Aussie Prime Minister's name right

The administration's press secretary Sean Spicer repeatedly mispronounced the name of Australian Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull while addressing the media overnight.

Speaking at a White House briefing about the contested refugee deal, Mr Spicer made numerous references to a mysterious "Mr Trumble" as he confirmed it would be going ahead


The important takeaway is the he was confirming the deal would go ahead, despite the President's vociferous dislike of it. The media takeaway was, of course, all abut the mysterious "Mr. Trumble" to whom he kept referring.

I like a laugh, even if it is at the maladroit Mr. Spicer's expense. Image

mariner


Tried to google but I couldn't find any information on the folks Australia was taking as part of quid-pro-quo deal. All I can find is there is pending court order and Australia is looking for friends to help them out. Can you give a link or search words.
 
tommy1808
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Re: How Trump treats other heads of state...

Fri Feb 03, 2017 10:58 am

VSMUT wrote:
Your understanding of immigration and how it affects society is stuck in the naive 90s and early 00s.


If we don´t stand up for what we supposedly stand for, why care at all....

Fact is, economic migrants abuse the refugee system to force entry into whatever country they fancy milking the social benefits system of.


Fact is, at least for Germany, that is bullcrap. The asylum denial rate for people from the Balkans is basically 100%. People from Iraq or Afghanistan have only marginally lower rates... so much for "Fact is".

That results in mistrust and hatred towards the true refugees, along with increased voting and support for far-right political parties. All of that ultimately results in conditions where actual refugees aren't accepted at all.


Even at the hight of the refugee crisis ~75% of all Germans agreed with the policy, only a minority below 10%, a very loud one though, disagrees.

So either you tighten up the policy so that economic migrants stay away, or you go full-on Merkel style and end up with Marine le Pen as president because the population is fed up with immigrants and only the far-right offers a "solution".


The AfD is stagnant around 10%, and that just happens to be pretty exactly what the combined neo-nazi parties happened to have before the "rise" of the AfD ....
The new leader of the social democratic party, even more liberal than Merkel, is just giving her a run for her money in polls....

Somewhere around 70 to 80% of the people here would set their signature under this video. And do, hence the millions of Views
Image

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMQkV5cTuoY

best regards
Thomas
Times are changing: 70 years ago the USA went to war to defeat the Nazis, now they elect them to run their country.
 
ltbewr
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Re: How Trump treats other heads of state...

Fri Feb 03, 2017 11:42 am

President Trump* believes he has a mandate from a sufficient number of voters to 'talk tough' to other heads of state as to issues of trade, immigration/migration, keeping out 'terrorists' and those of the Islamic faith. He believes that past administrations, in particular President Obama's, were wrong as to those issues, and needs to correct.
 
VSMUT
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Re: How Trump treats other heads of state...

Fri Feb 03, 2017 1:30 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
Fact is, at least for Germany, that is bullcrap. The asylum denial rate for people from the Balkans is basically 100%. People from Iraq or Afghanistan have only marginally lower rates... so much for "Fact is".


And how many years do you spend trying to figure out if they are to be rejected or allowed to stay? For Denmark we are talking about a process that takes several years.



tommy1808 wrote:
Even at the hight of the refugee crisis ~75% of all Germans agreed with the policy, only a minority below 10%, a very loud one though, disagrees.

The AfD is stagnant around 10%, and that just happens to be pretty exactly what the combined neo-nazi parties happened to have before the "rise" of the AfD


Yeah sure, they said that in Denmark too. You Germans are about 15 years behind us when it comes to far right-wing nationalists.

One day the established parties will find themselves in a position where they don't agree with each other. Then the government will be forced to either write out a new election, or to accept support from the right-wing neo-nazis in exchange for giving in to the wishes of that group. It's the only reason why the current incompetent Danish government is still at power - they are being propped up by the nationalist DPP.

And those nationalist parties - they will grow unless appropriate measures are taken in order to satisfy their voters.
 
bmacleod
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Re: How Trump treats other heads of state...

Fri Feb 03, 2017 2:02 pm

A few have made comparisons between Trump and Nixon. The Monday Night Massacre seems to correlates to the 1973 Saturday Night Massacre but unlike that event - only the acting AG Sally Yates was fired.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturday_Night_Massacre

Nixon seemed to treat other heads of state with dignity and respect - though in private it seemed otherwise.

Nixon seemed to have a good relationship with former Canadian PM Pierre Trudeau - however in private Oval Office recordings he referred to Trudeau in another less friendly term.

https://www.thestar.com/news/world/2008/12/08/nixon_tapes_include_testy_trudeau_chat.html

Around the same time Governor Reagan and President Nixon seemed to get along well - Reagan and Nixon would appear smiling and joking together at an event in Bel Air - a few hours later Nixon can be hear on tape "What are we going to do about Reagan?"

Source:

https://books.google.ca/books/about/The_Presidents_Club.html?id=AaJQJ1BLQ2MC&source=kp_cover&redir_esc=y&hl=en

Hopefully Trump will think carefully before making split second opinions on Governors and World Leaders.
Last edited by bmacleod on Fri Feb 03, 2017 2:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.
"What good are wings without the courage to fly?" - Atticus
 
tommy1808
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Re: How Trump treats other heads of state...

Fri Feb 03, 2017 2:11 pm

VSMUT wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
Fact is, at least for Germany, that is bullcrap. The asylum denial rate for people from the Balkans is basically 100%. People from Iraq or Afghanistan have only marginally lower rates... so much for "Fact is".


And how many years do you spend trying to figure out if they are to be rejected or allowed to stay? For Denmark we are talking about a process that takes several years.


Depends on the country of origin..... from the Balkan that is pretty much an instant return ticket, other stay well over a year. Departments are a little overworked.

Yeah sure, they said that in Denmark too. You Germans are about 15 years behind us when it comes to far right-wing nationalists


Yawn. Right. We had right wing parties on the rise in the 50, 60 and 90. And every time with the same reasons..... refugees.May it be people from the east after WKII, Boat People from Vietnam, Muslims from the Balkan .... always the same shit, the same lies.....
The moment right wing parties drop their disguise, just as the AfD just did with some Holocaust denial, their ratings drop like stones, even if they have good economic and other ideas.

And those nationalist parties - they will grow unless appropriate measures are taken in order to satisfy their voters.


Yeah, we heard that before. Long before the AfD gets any shot at government participation, "Die Linke" will. They are kept out of federal government for 26 years already, and there have been several occasions where a leftwing coalition was possible, but no one wanted to....
There are no appropriate measures to take when the voters demands are based on bullshit.As i pointed out, support for Ms. Merkels refugee policies are rising, while her "Co-Worker" from the CSU loses popularity since he sings the AfD Party line. And the new SPD leader, even more liberal on immigration than Merkel, is more popular that she is.....

best regards
Thomas
Times are changing: 70 years ago the USA went to war to defeat the Nazis, now they elect them to run their country.
 
ElPistolero
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Re: How Trump treats other heads of state...

Fri Feb 03, 2017 3:26 pm

stratosphere wrote:

Like Angela Merkel is? You better stop worrying what is happening here and worry about your own backyard and stop these migrants before they ruin Germany like they are on there way to ruining Sweden the current rape capital of the EU thanks to your open door policy on refugees.


This is getting silly. Merkel is one of the most respected leaders in the world. She's also widely respected in Germany - certainly nowhere near as polarizing as other leaders. Yes, she's suffering a bit of a dip in popularity, but even that can attributed in large part to incumbent fatigue/anti-incumbent factor/desire for change that tends to surface when someone's been in power for 12 years.

The Brexit crowd and Trump supporters find a convenient scapegoat in her due to their similar positions (regardless of rationale) on immigration. The rest of the world isn't as afflicted with that narrow-minded worldview.

For what it's worth, Germany is not, in fact, on the verge of anarchy. It's still much, much safer and better policed than the US. Not as safe as the police state that was GDR, but not much worse off than 10 or 20 years ago. For example you can still send your kids to school without worrying that they might be shot dead there.

The reality is that the US can't go it alone. Trying to browbeat an ally to appease populist tendencies isn't going to be beneficial in the long run. Even allies have other options.
 
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Re: How Trump treats other heads of state...

Fri Feb 03, 2017 3:35 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:

Tried to google but I couldn't find any information on the folks Australia was taking as part of quid-pro-quo deal. All I can find is there is pending court order and Australia is looking for friends to help them out. Can you give a link or search words.


"Washington agreed a deal late last year to resettle refugees, mainly from Afghanistan, Iran and Iraq, held in Australia's processing centers on remote Pacific islands in Papua New Guinea and Nauru.

Under the deal, Australia will in return resettle refugees from El Salvador, Guatemala and Honduras."

https://www.google.ca/amp/www.cnbc.com/ ... ralia.html

I don't know how you missed it, unless you were expressing an opinion when you said you tried to google.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: How Trump treats other heads of state...

Fri Feb 03, 2017 3:35 pm

Merkel is a saint there is no question about it and deserves everyone's respect. But, is taking unlimited refugees the solution? Can other countries replicate German model.

VSMUT touched upon a sensitive topic about refugees. Do we want refugees really being persecuted by bad regimes in their home countries, or someone already has a smartphone with international data roaming plan, and looking for nearest Apple store in Berlin to buy iPhone 7. Don't flame me, just asking the question.
 
tommy1808
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Re: How Trump treats other heads of state...

Fri Feb 03, 2017 3:56 pm

stratosphere wrote:
You better stop worrying what is happening here and worry about your own backyard and stop these migrants before they ruin Germany


blablabla... repetition doesn´t make it true. We are just as fine with the refugees as we have been without. It is not our first rodeo with lots of them.

Last year we spend 0.35% of our GDP on refugees, while the IWF estimates between 0.5 and 1.1% additional GDP growth due to the refugees. Seems like their presence is pretty much paying for itself. Did i mention our budget surplus?

As a side effect taking those able bodied man out of ISIS´s grasp pretty much killed the organisation, it has lost 75% of its territory since Merkels decision, while they where still gaining territory despite air attacks before it. Killed with kindness.

best regards
Thomas
Times are changing: 70 years ago the USA went to war to defeat the Nazis, now they elect them to run their country.
 
tommy1808
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Re: How Trump treats other heads of state...

Fri Feb 03, 2017 4:09 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
Merkel is a saint there is no question about it and deserves everyone's respect. But, is taking unlimited refugees the solution? Can other countries replicate German model.


Experience tells us most will come back when the situations becomes reasonable safe. And two million are not that much in a 80 Million country. And the Syrian refugees are actually good guests, their crime rate is below that of native Germans.
Germany took in 12 Million after WWII and effective 17 Million in 1990, and then close to a million during the rest of the 90´s. We know our limitations, and the communities at the pointy end, that had to actually handle the inflow, vastly confirmed that they are not overly taxed by the additional work and expenses. And that is from communities that are traditionally very low on cash.

She is, unusual for a high ranking official, a real scientist. A physicist to be precise. There is no reason to assume she didn´t use her scientific training to figure out what we can and can´t do.

Do we want refugees really being persecuted by bad regimes in their home countries, or someone already has a smartphone with international data roaming plan, and looking for nearest Apple store in Berlin to buy iPhone 7. Don't flame me, just asking the question.


Why can´t refugees flee from bad regimes and still have some money.....? In fact why wouldn´t you expect them to bring as much money as they can? My Ex gf family had to flee from the Chinese Communists, most of her family did in fact get killed, but they converted as much of their belongings into gold as possible ... and ended up being wealthy refugees.But still refugees....

best regards
Thomas
Times are changing: 70 years ago the USA went to war to defeat the Nazis, now they elect them to run their country.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: How Trump treats other heads of state...

Fri Feb 03, 2017 4:32 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
Why can´t refugees flee from bad regimes and still have some money.....? In fact why wouldn´t you expect them to bring as much money as they can? My Ex gf family had to flee from the Chinese Communists, most of her family did in fact get killed, but they converted as much of their belongings into gold as possible ... and ended up being wealthy refugees.But still refugees....

best regards
Thomas


Thanks for the clarification.
 
olle
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Re: How Trump treats other heads of state...

Fri Feb 03, 2017 5:08 pm

Things will soon come back to mr Trump.

Bibi suddenly got a no go on new settlements yesterday. WHY? Something happened...

EU parlament will not let the new ambassador into their offices..

EU is discussing what shall happen after NATO in public

South america and asis wants china to replace usa in ttp.

Etc etc.

Is this a smart game to play? 2020 usa role in the world will be different of 2016 usa in the world.

And by the way brexit and uk just put their future in the hands of mr Trump
 
WIederling
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Re: How Trump treats other heads of state...

Fri Feb 03, 2017 5:24 pm

mariner wrote:
You'd think (or I would) that after all the hoo-has the White House Press Secretary would at least learn the Australian Prime Minister's name.

.... the mysterious "Mr. Trumble" to whom he kept referring.

I like a laugh, even if it is at the maladroit Mr. Spicer's expense. Image


This is the same kind of disrespect you could find on A.net: Airbust, Scareliner, ...

it is intentional.

( did I munge the quoting?)
Murphy is an optimist
 
bmacleod
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Re: How Trump treats other heads of state...

Fri Feb 03, 2017 6:12 pm

Wow...an ironic moment in history..... :eek:

The US President, Australian PM and Canadian PM all have surnames begging with TRU - (Australian TUR).

CAN - Justin Trudeau

AUS - Malcolm Turnbull

US - Donald Trump
"What good are wings without the courage to fly?" - Atticus
 
tommy1808
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Re: How Trump treats other heads of state...

Fri Feb 03, 2017 6:15 pm

stratosphere wrote:
to ruining Sweden the current rape capital of the EU thanks to your open door policy on refugees.


Are they?
Image

Best regards
Thomas
Times are changing: 70 years ago the USA went to war to defeat the Nazis, now they elect them to run their country.
 
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cpd
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Re: How Trump treats other heads of state...

Fri Feb 03, 2017 6:45 pm

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/ ... u4yqa.html

Oh gawd.... Trump is stupid. :( Take his Twitter away. He should have said nothing rather than try to spin a bad situation.
 
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mariner
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Re: How Trump treats other heads of state...

Fri Feb 03, 2017 7:05 pm

Having previously described the phone call as "tough." President Trump has now tweeted his "thanks" to Prime Minster Turnbull for the way he has described the phone call - unlike the "fake news" version:

http://www.news.com.au/world/north-amer ... b3adfb0d44

"Thank you to Prime Minister of Australia for telling the truth about our very civil conversation that FAKE NEWS media lied about. Very nice!"

But Turnbull hasn't called it "civil" - Turnbull has refused to discuss the call except to say that it was "very frank" (diplomat speak for "very rough"), that clearly Trump has "a very big personality", but also that it ended courteously.

Clearly, it was as fake news described it - brutal - else why the rush to appease Australia, with the Oz Ambassador called to a meeting with Trump seniors to tell him how highly they regarded Australia and assurances that the deal will happen - although the unfortunate Mr. Spicer was at it again:

"White House press secretary Sean Spicer slipped up in his news briefing, saying that Reince Pribus and Steve Bannon had met with the “prime minister”, before correcting himself and saying “the Australian ambassador to the US” Joe Hockey.

However, he then continued to call Malcolm Turnbull, Mr Trumble, as he had a day earlier."


My guess is that it's all been pantomime - that the deal will likely go ahead, but that Trump had to appease his base about it, he has to be seen to be sticking up for America - and dumping all the blame for it on Obama.

Assuming it does go ahead, my concern would be that even though Australian vetting has recognized that the majority, if not all, of the refugees on Manus and Nauru are genuine, at least some will be rejected by the US to show how extreme the US vetting is.

mariner
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NIKV69
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Re: How Trump treats other heads of state...

Fri Feb 03, 2017 7:05 pm

Hillis wrote:
Anything you don't like is propoganda. Josef Goebbles would have hired you in a heartbeat.


He already would have had CNN and MSNBC. He wouldn't need more.
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
Ken777
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Re: How Trump treats other heads of state...

Fri Feb 03, 2017 9:40 pm

PanHAM wrote:

No, but the correct answer on the Aussie Immigration officers question "Do you have a criminal record" is:

"No, does one still need one?"


I had forgotten that one, and it is still great!

PanHAM wrote:
Trump will find out rather sooner than later that no one among his peers will take him serious. This will lead ti Isolation in a rather short time Interesting will be the G20 Meeting in Hamburg in June. He is invited but I really think that they should relocate the Meeting to Hamburg NJ.


Maybe the civilized world will start holding a G19 Meeting and keep the schedule a secret from Trump.
 
incitatus
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Re: How Trump treats other heads of state...

Sat Feb 04, 2017 2:49 am

seahawk wrote:
It is nice to see a politician speak the truth and get down to the points and be open about it.


Wow, wouldn't that be **AMAZING**? If Trump, KC, the press secretary spoke the truth? Heck, if Trump did that I'd even consider voting for him next time around. We got two weeks of information diarrhea coming out of the White House.
Conservatives against Trump
 
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BawliBooch
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Re: How Trump treats other heads of state...

Sun Feb 05, 2017 3:13 am

One has to talk tough if one has to be respected.

Especially if one is compensating for having tiny hands.
L' Esprit de Mai 68
 
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Francoflier
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Re: How Trump treats other heads of state...

Sun Feb 05, 2017 5:08 am

BawliBooch wrote:
Especially if one is compensating for having tiny hands.


Oh, his acute superiority complex overcompensates for a lot more than his tiny hands...
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
salttee
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Re: How Trump treats other heads of state...

Sun Feb 05, 2017 7:52 am

NIKV69 wrote:
Hillis wrote:
Anything you don't like is propoganda. Josef Goebbles would have hired you in a heartbeat.


He already would have had CNN and MSNBC. He wouldn't need more.

You would compare CNN and MSNBC to Goebbles.

That's quite an ethical lapse on your part.
You should always remember that you said that and remember that nothing you do in the future will ever remove the fact that you said that.

Possibly you should consider asking the site for permission to change your handle to "The Lowlife".
 
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Francoflier
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Re: How Trump treats other heads of state...

Mon Feb 06, 2017 2:07 am

In a move that surprises no one anymore, Trump is once again bending over backwards to protect his buddy Putin's reputation. In fact, he'd rather criticize the US itself and bring its image down to Russia's level to justify the political assassinations of the Putin regime.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38872328

Trump is systematically destroying the diplomatic ties the US has with its major trade and military partners, but will resort to amazing contortions to praise the despotic leader of a country that opposes the US on almost every affair in the international scene and with which the US does little trade...

...Gee, I wonder why.
:scratchchin:
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cpd
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Re: How Trump treats other heads of state...

Mon Feb 06, 2017 2:18 am

Francoflier wrote:
In a move that surprises no one anymore, Trump is once again bending over backwards to protect his buddy Putin's reputation. In fact, he'd rather criticize the US itself and bring its image down to Russia's level to justify the political assassinations of the Putin regime.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38872328

Trump is systematically destroying the diplomatic ties the US has with its major trade and military partners, but will resort to amazing contortions to praise the despotic leader of a country that opposes the US on almost every affair in the international scene and with which the US does little trade...

...Gee, I wonder why.
:scratchchin:


It does look very, very suspicious. Sure, one little note saying he wants to improve relations with Russia. But this looks really odd, it's like he is trying to repay some sort of favour.
 
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zkojq
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Re: How Trump treats other heads of state...

Mon Feb 06, 2017 5:48 am

In Mr Trump's defence, Mr Turnbull has proven to be more than a little bit of a jerk. I suppose the same is true of Trump though.

KruegerFlaps wrote:
There is no logical reason that the detainees should go to the US, other than the Government's trumpeting that not a single one will come to Australia, even if they are genuine refugees. Trump's out-trumpeting Turnbull might cause temporary embarrassment but that is self-created by the Government's wish to out-Hanson Hanson.

"We stopped the boats" and "they won't set foot in Australia" make wonderful soundbites, but now what are you going to do with them? Australia should not be seeking to avoid its responsibilities by exporting the problem.


Very true. If you ask a lot of people from the North (the ones who are susceptible to voting for Hansen and who would love to have someone like Rodrigo Duterte as their leader) the answer is to shoot them. For the rest of us, that's not an appropriate outcome.

dtw2hyd wrote:
With recent changes at least Australia and UK will stop supporting every war effort without any thought process. There wouldn't be any fake "coalitions of willing" to justify fake wars. Good for everyone.

:checkmark: Too true!

wingman wrote:
Shitting on one of 4-5 Tier 1 allies, and the only one likely to spill blood with you in a regional conflict, no questions asked, is probably the the most short-sighted and idiotic thing Trump has done yet in the foreign policy arena. Probably a dead heat with encouraging the breakup of the EU.

wingman wrote:
It simply boggles the mind how unprepared, unknowledgeable and uncouth the man is. I'm starting to think he might really be suffering from some mental disease.


Sadly, I suspect there's plenty more where that one came from. I'm looking forward to him poking the various participants in the South China Sea tensions and seeing what that results in. It probably won't be pretty. Same with the Persian Gulf; a truly massive opportunity for him to really screw things up.

mariner wrote:
And Australia doesn't actually need all those US Marines based at Darwin, but Mr. Bannon might need them there for his predicted war with China.

Lets not pretend that Trump's even aware of that. Why would america send troops to some liberal philosopher anyway?


mariner wrote:
"Sen. McCain Makes Nice With Australia After Trump’s ‘Blunt’ Talk With PM

One of the last few respectable men in Washington.


mariner wrote:
One good thing to come out of it is that other world leaders will be ready for the potential bullying when they make their phone calls with Trump - New Zealand is next up, so at least Mr. English will be prepared.


Why even bother having the call? Nothing meaningful is going to come from it; what's the best that could possibly happen? Personally, I'd be more comfortable if the status quo remained and Number 44 wasn't made aware of our existence.

mariner wrote:
By all accounts, Turnbull refused to be cowed by the bullying but stood up to the man. Give Mr. Turnbull a medal, I say.

Quite possibly the first time in his life that he's acted as if he's got a backbone...

Francoflier wrote:
The few left with an ounce of grey matter and who dare speak out against the madness, like McCain (never ever thought I'd think so highly of him!) are mostly eschewed and ignored.

I don't by any means agree with all his policy positions, but McCain has always been a man of integrity. America needs more leaders like him.

VSMUT wrote:
So either you tighten up the policy so that economic migrants stay away, or you go full-on Merkel style and end up with Marine le Pen as president because the population is fed up with immigrants and only the far-right offers a "solution".

Good point. An approach that is too welcoming invites people like Hansen/LePen into power which is far, far worse in the long term. Not that this makes the current situation on Christmas Island/Nauru etc any more acceptable.

mariner wrote:
"White House press secretary Sean Spicer slipped up in his news briefing, saying that Reince Pribus and Steve Bannon had met with the “prime minister”, before correcting himself and saying “the Australian ambassador to the US” Joe Hockey.

However, he then continued to call Malcolm Turnbull, Mr Trumble, as he had a day earlier."

The incompetence is genuinely impressive!

Francoflier wrote:
In a move that surprises no one anymore, Trump is once again bending over backwards to protect his buddy Putin's reputation. In fact, he'd rather criticize the US itself and bring its image down to Russia's level to justify the political assassinations of the Putin regime.

It's hilarious to see all the right-wingers tow the line on this one, criticising america to justify Russian BS!

Francoflier wrote:
Trump is systematically destroying the diplomatic ties the US has with its major trade and military partners, but will resort to amazing contortions to praise the despotic leader of a country that opposes the US on almost every affair in the international scene and with which the US does little trade...

...Gee, I wonder why.
:scratchchin:


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seahawk
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Re: How Trump treats other heads of state...

Mon Feb 06, 2017 5:59 am

Nice to see that Trump has a realistic view of Russia and Putin.
 
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mariner
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Re: How Trump treats other heads of state...

Mon Feb 06, 2017 7:34 am

zkojq wrote:
In Mr Trump's defence, Mr Turnbull has proven to be more than a little bit of a jerk. I suppose the same is true of Trump though.


i don't think Turnbull is a jerk, certainly compared with his predecessor, but that shouldn't affect doing business.

zkojq wrote:
mariner wrote:
And Australia doesn't actually need all those US Marines based at Darwin, but Mr. Bannon might need them there for his predicted war with China.

Lets not pretend that Trump's even aware of that. Why would america send troops to some liberal philosopher anyway?


I'd be pretty sure he's aware of it now, but I don't understand your "liberal philosopher" comment. The US marines are already in Darwin and the deal was set up between (then Australian PM) Julia Gillard and President Obama. I've seldom heard Miss Gillard described as a "liberal philosopher."

zkojq wrote:
Why even bother having the call? Nothing meaningful is going to come from it; what's the best that could possibly happen? Personally, I'd be more comfortable if the status quo remained and Number 44 wasn't made aware of our existence.


I don't think it serves any purpose for NZ to snub the President of the US, whatever my personal opinion of that president.

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
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KruegerFlaps
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Re: How Trump treats other heads of state...

Mon Feb 06, 2017 8:33 am

mariner wrote:
I'd be pretty sure he's aware of it now, but I don't understand your "liberal philosopher" comment.

I could be wrong but I think it is a play on words: Darwin the man as opposed to Darwin the city. It assumes that Trump is unfamiliar with the world outside the US. An attempt at humour, possibly?
Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves. - William Pitt Speech, 1783
 
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mariner
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Re: How Trump treats other heads of state...

Mon Feb 06, 2017 10:25 am

KruegerFlaps wrote:
mariner wrote:
I'd be pretty sure he's aware of it now, but I don't understand your "liberal philosopher" comment.

I could be wrong but I think it is a play on words: Darwin the man as opposed to Darwin the city. It assumes that Trump is unfamiliar with the world outside the US. An attempt at humour, possibly?


Maybe you're right. I think it's a bit of a stretch to describe the scientist Charles Darwin as a liberal philosopher, but each to their own, always.

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
Scorpio
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Re: How Trump treats other heads of state...

Mon Feb 06, 2017 10:45 am

stratosphere wrote:

Like Angela Merkel is? You better stop worrying what is happening here and worry about your own backyard and stop these migrants before they ruin Germany like they are on there way to ruining Sweden the current rape capital of the EU thanks to your open door policy on refugees.

You need to stop reading nonsensical right-wing blogs and simply repeating the message of fear they spread. The Swedish rape stats have been a gigantic present for those trying to mislead the ignorant for years. Sweden's rape statistics have always been higher than the rest of Europe, and that hasn't changed. The question that needs to be asked is whether the higher statistics are because the number of actual rapes is higher, or simply because a larger percentage of rapes get reported. An awful lot of rapes go unreported, because rape is still a taboo subject in many places, and many women don't dare to report them for fear of what 'society' might think of them. Research has shown a correlation between gender equality in a society, and the chances that a woman will report a rape if it happens to her. Quite logical when you think about it. An independent, strong woman is more likely to stand up for herself. Sweden is near the very top when it comes to gender equality. MUCH higher (4th place worldwide) than say the US (45th place). On top of that, there have been extensive government efforts for many years in Sweden to break the taboo on rape, and to encourage victims to report a rape if it happens. The result is that the rape stats are higher than in other countries. But it doesn't mean the actual number of rapes is...
 
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zkojq
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Re: How Trump treats other heads of state...

Mon Feb 06, 2017 10:49 am

mariner wrote:
i don't think Turnbull is a jerk, certainly compared with his predecessor

That's....not a very high standard.

mariner wrote:
The US marines are already in Darwin and the deal was set up between (then Australian PM) Julia Gillard and President Obama.

Yes, but would Trump be aware of this? We know already that he doesn't enjoy reading intelligence briefings....

KruegerFlaps wrote:
I could be wrong but I think it is a play on words: Darwin the man as opposed to Darwin the city. It assumes that Trump is unfamiliar with the world outside the US. An attempt at humour, possibly?

:checkmark: That's the one.

mariner wrote:
I've seldom heard Miss Gillard described as a "liberal philosopher."

:scratchchin: There's got to be a suppository-of-all-wisdom joke in here, somewhere.

mariner wrote:
zkojq wrote:
Why even bother having the call? Nothing meaningful is going to come from it; what's the best that could possibly happen? Personally, I'd be more comfortable if the status quo remained and Number 44 wasn't made aware of our existence.


I don't think it serves any purpose for NZ to snub the President of the US, whatever my personal opinion of that president.


I certainly wouldn't be intending to snub Trump, but I just don't see what the point of the call is. The two countries aren't going to be working together at a high level towards any common goals in the immediate future. I doubt that neither Trump, nor americans (in general) care for our nation's input regarding the various happenings around the globe. Infact, recently we cosponsored a UNSC resolution that Trump wasn't very happy with, so if anything the call is going to go badly. If nothing else, I'm sure Trump has a very busy schedule filled with far more important things to do, rather than talk to Mr English.



mariner wrote:
Maybe you're right. I think it's a bit of a stretch to describe the scientist Charles Darwin as a liberal philosopher, but each to their own, always.

Trump's (presumed) opinion of Mr Darwin's occupation/legacy, rather than my own.
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cpd
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Re: How Trump treats other heads of state...

Mon Feb 06, 2017 11:17 am

zkojq wrote:
In Mr Trump's defence, Mr Turnbull has proven to be more than a little bit of a jerk. I suppose the same is true of Trump though.

mariner wrote:
And Australia doesn't actually need all those US Marines based at Darwin, but Mr. Bannon might need them there for his predicted war with China.

Lets not pretend that Trump's even aware of that. Why would america send troops to some liberal philosopher anyway?

mariner wrote:
By all accounts, Turnbull refused to be cowed by the bullying but stood up to the man. Give Mr. Turnbull a medal, I say.

Quite possibly the first time in his life that he's acted as if he's got a backbone...
[/quote]

Turnbull acted quite appropriately and in a professional manner. The Trump camp were the unprofessional childish spoiled brats who couldn't get their own way. So he threw his toys out of the pram. Whatever Turnbull said, it must have been very persuasive...

And if Gillard is a liberal philosopher I'll be damned. She is a lovely lady, very warm and engaging, but make no mistake she is incredibly tough and determined. I wouldn't say she is left wing either. Nor right wing, but somewhere between those extremes.

Trump should be thankful he is dealing with Turnbull. Bob Carr, Julia Gillard would have roasted Trump. And old Paul Keating, that would have been fun.... ;) (a firestorm of vitriol)
 
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mariner
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Re: How Trump treats other heads of state...

Mon Feb 06, 2017 12:27 pm

zkojq wrote:
I certainly wouldn't be intending to snub Trump, but I just don't see what the point of the call is. The two countries aren't going to be working together at a high level towards any common goals in the immediate future. I doubt that neither Trump, nor americans (in general) care for our nation's input regarding the various happenings around the globe. Infact, recently we cosponsored a UNSC resolution that Trump wasn't very happy with, so if anything the call is going to go badly. If nothing else, I'm sure Trump has a very busy schedule filled with far more important things to do, rather than talk to Mr English.


The reports are that Trump made the call, English took it and that it went well.

Such calls are usually regarded as ground-work stuff, common courtesy between leaders, getting to know each other. The two nations work together all the time (Five Eyes and the Antarctic as the most obvious examples) and In view of the cancellation of TPP and Trump's stated intention to replace it with a bilateral, I'd say they had things to talk about:

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zea ... de-deal-us

"Trump signals NZ could be offered bilateral free trade deal with the US"

Why not take the call?

mariner wrote:
Maybe you're right. I think it's a bit of a stretch to describe the scientist Charles Darwin as a liberal philosopher, but each to their own, always.

Trump's (presumed) opinion of Mr Darwin's occupation/legacy, rather than my own.


I shrug.

mariner
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zkojq
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Re: How Trump treats other heads of state...

Mon Feb 06, 2017 12:50 pm

cpd wrote:
And if Gillard is a liberal philosopher I'll be damned.

Lets forget I made the 'liberal philosopher' comment. I was supposed to be a bit of humor about geographic knowledge and what the hard-right thinks of scientists. Clearly it fell flat.

cpd wrote:
She is a lovely lady, very warm and engaging, but make no mistake she is incredibly tough and determined. I wouldn't say she is left wing either. Nor right wing, but somewhere between those extremes.

:checkmark: I miss her.

cpd wrote:
Trump should be thankful he is dealing with Turnbull. Bob Carr, Julia Gillard would have roasted Trump. And old Paul Keating, that would have been fun.... ;) (a firestorm of vitriol)

Indeed. Oh to listen in on that hypothetical conversation!


mariner wrote:
The reports are that Trump made the call, English took it and that it went well.

The call was planned in advance:

Prime Minister Bill English wasn't mistaken when he said New Zealand was low among US President Donald Trump's priorities. More than two weeks after Trump took office, English has finally lined up his own phone call with the so-called leader of the free world - placing well down the calling list behind a dozen or so other world leaders. The call was expected to take place at 10.45am on Monday, with English spending Waitangi Day in Auckland.


http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politic ... first-time

I''m glad it went well.

mariner wrote:
The two nations work together all the time (Five Eyes and the Antarctic as the most obvious examples) and In view of the cancellation of TPP and Trump's stated intention to replace it with a bilateral, I'd say they had things to talk about:

Nothing that couldn't be handled by lower-level staff. I wonder if Trump will cancel Operation Deep Freeze. The program's facilitates far too much climate science which we know he isn't a fan of. Maybe he'll abolish this bits he doesn't agree with, like what Abbot did with the Climate Commission.


mariner wrote:
"Trump signals NZ could be offered bilateral free trade deal with the US"

:rotfl:
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vfw614
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Re: How Trump treats other heads of state...

Mon Feb 06, 2017 7:10 pm

It's called a sense of humor. Not surprisingly CNN.com has the headline "Trump at Prayer Breakfast: 'Pray for Arnold'. I don't remember them having the headline though "Hillary Clinton endorses SnapChat for self-disappearing emails". The only difference is Trump is joking about polls and ratings, whereas Hillary was joking about national security.


Did I miss something - when exactly was Hillary POTUS like Trump and made a fool of herself as head of state?
 
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mariner
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Re: How Trump treats other heads of state...

Mon Feb 06, 2017 10:32 pm

cpd wrote:
Trump should be thankful he is dealing with Turnbull. Bob Carr, Julia Gillard would have roasted Trump. And old Paul Keating, that would have been fun.... ;) (a firestorm of vitriol)


Indeed. But while roasting Mr. Trump may have been entertaining - and a salve to thin-skinned Australian egos - it may also have been destructive.

There is a bizarre article in the Herald-Sun by Andrew Bolt (wouldn't you know) praising the UK's Theresa May for making nice with Mr. Trump and dumping, yet again, on Turnbull for daring to raise the matter of the refugee deal with the President.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/blogs/andre ... 1a0f9ca624

"Out-Trumping Trump with insults helps no one

Yet - apparently - Mr. Turnbull got what he wanted. Along the way, in the crush of American politicians rushing to tell Australia how much it is loved, he may have done a heap of good to the alliance. Finally, he even earned the tweeted gratitude of Mr. Trump himself, for being discreet.

So again I say - give Mr. Turnbull a medal.
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Hillis
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Re: How Trump treats other heads of state...

Mon Feb 06, 2017 10:39 pm

seahawk wrote:
Nice to see that Trump has a realistic view of Russia and Putin.


I don't call giving him a cyber blowjob 24/7 a realistic view. That, in essence, is what he does to Putin. He clearly loves Putin more than most of his fellow Americans.
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