DLFREEBIRD wrote:

I do remember Trump saying .during the election that he would call for a complete and total shutdown of Muslims entering the United States. Then after being elected he signed a executive order disallowing anyone from a number of predominately Muslim nations from entering the United States.

NIKV69 wrote:

DLFREEBIRD wrote:

I do remember Trump saying .during the election that he would call for a complete and total shutdown of Muslims entering the United States. Then after being elected he signed a executive order disallowing anyone from a number of predominately Muslim nations from entering the United States.

If you quoted everything he said "until our country's representatives can figure out what is going on"

His order doesn't disallow it just puts in place a stronger vetting process for anyone entering the US from these countries. Was it written poorly? Sure but the fact remains that our new president is making it a little tougher to come in here. I am not happy with existing Visa holders being detained and I would hope the order would only apply to people never here before or people here illegally but we need to let this play out and weed out the propaganda from the open border crowd before we judge.

Pellegrine wrote:

I've decided that I'm going on a trip to Iran and with the people I know, if I have one second of detention we will be suing the US Gov and Donal Dump himself. I've always wanted to go to Iran. I dig their food and UNESCO World Heritage sites.

cpd wrote:

The countries that are strangely absent from the list, has anyone thought to check Trump's business interests in those places?

wstakl wrote:

Chicago last year.......shot and killed 716, shot and wounded 3663, total shot 4379, total homicides 798.

Also last year, more Americans were killed by toddlers with guns than by Muslim terrorists.

Please Amercia, sort your OWN shit out first.

mham001 wrote:

solarflyer22 wrote:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01 ... e-program/

US PASSPORT HOLDERS DO NOT GO TO IRAN OR TRANSIT. YOU WILL NOT BE SENT BACK, YOU WILL BE JAILED.

Yea, that's bullsh-t.

I always get my US visa news from UK newspapers based upon vague "reports". Fake news much?

On the other hand, it should have been extended to more countries.

cpd wrote:

The countries that are strangely absent from the list, has anyone thought to check Trump's business interests in those places?

mham001 wrote:

cpd wrote:

The countries that are strangely absent from the list, has anyone thought to check Trump's business interests in those places?

I think this was a fair question. Why not Egypt, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia for example.

Turns out, this was Obama's list, derived under the Visa Waiver Program Improvement and Terrorist Travel Prevention Act and it's update copied below.


Release Date: February 18, 2016
For Immediate Release
DHS Press Office
Contact: 202-282-8010

WASHINGTON—The Department of Homeland Security today announced that it is continuing its implementation of the Visa Waiver Program Improvement and Terrorist Travel Prevention Act of 2015 with the addition of Libya, Somalia, and Yemen as three countries of concern, limiting Visa Waiver Program travel for certain individuals who have traveled to these countries.

Pursuant to the Act, the Secretary of Homeland Security had sixty days to determine whether additional countries or areas of concern should be subject to the travel or dual nationality restrictions under the Act. After careful consideration, and in consultation with the Director of National Intelligence and the Secretary of State, the Secretary of Homeland Security has determined that Libya, Somalia, and Yemen be included as countries of concern, specifically for individuals who have traveled to these countries since March 1, 2011. At this time, the restriction on Visa Waiver Program travel will not apply to dual nationals of these three countries. DHS continues to consult with the Department of State and the Office of the Director of National Intelligence to develop further criteria to determine whether other countries would be added to this list. https://www.dhs.gov/news/2016/02/18/dhs ... er-program

lugie wrote:

cpd wrote:

The countries that are strangely absent from the list, has anyone thought to check Trump's business interests in those places?

This map is interesting.

Red = Nations under the immigration ban
Green = Other muslim nations in the same area but also nations where the Trump Organization owns golf resorts or real estates.

solarflyer22 wrote:

That's true but citing something from the guy that called ISIS "JV League" isn't worth much. There is also no ISIS presence in Iran which is 90% Shiite anyway. If this were addressing ISIS, which is supposed to be the plan, you can't leave nearly all of the Arabs states and Pakistan out. Even worse, you can get a Pakistani passport for $50

DLFREEBIRD wrote:

Iran is already a sanctioned country, U.S. citizens already have to purchase a ticket on a non-Iranian carrier to travel into Iran,
If Pellegrine has a diplomatic visa, NATO VISAS, C-2 VISA G-1,G-2,G-3, and G-4 visas which are typically issued for international organizations traveling to work he can go to and from Libya, Iran, Iraq, Somalia, Sudan, Syria and Yemen. If not he will have to wait out the 90 day ban, which will end April 27, 2017

lugie wrote:

cpd wrote:

The countries that are strangely absent from the list, has anyone thought to check Trump's business interests in those places?

This map is interesting.

Red = Nations under the immigration ban
Green = Other muslim nations in the same area but also nations where the Trump Organization owns golf resorts or real estates.

777Jet wrote:

I'm not interested in ALL of the local murders - types of murders that happen in all countries - and that were not underpinned by Islamic terrorism. This is about preventing Islamic terrorism such as 9/11.

I hope Australia takes such a hard line stance on immigration one day:

http://www.news.com.au/national/crime/t ... 0eecce7d80

'Make Australia Great Again'

Hillis wrote:

He's acting like a Dictator, thinking his word should be law without question. That's not how America works.

Suspension of entry or imposition of restrictions by President
Whenever the President finds that the entry of any aliens or of any class of aliens into the United States would be detrimental to the interests of the United States, he may by proclamation, and for such period as he shall deem necessary, suspend the entry of all aliens or any class of aliens as immigrants or nonimmigrants, or impose on the entry of aliens any restrictions he may deem to be appropriate. Whenever the Attorney General finds that a commercial airline has failed to comply with regulations of the Attorney General relating to requirements of airlines for the detection of fraudulent documents used by passengers traveling to the United States (including the training of personnel in such detection), the Attorney General may suspend the entry of some or all aliens transported to the United States by such airline.

NoTime wrote:

So, by the law of the land, Trump didn't go nearly as far as he could've."

vc10 wrote:

I suppose none of you remember that during the 1970s the arab world would not let you enter thair country if you had an Israeli stamp in your passport, so what come around goes around. The exception to this was if I remember was Iran , but that was under the Shah.

Francoflier wrote:

Is Israel America's 51st state now?
What happened to America first?

wstakl wrote:

Chicago last year.......shot and killed 716, shot and wounded 3663, total shot 4379, total homicides 798.

Also last year, more Americans were killed by toddlers with guns than by Muslim terrorists.

Please Amercia, sort your OWN shit out first.

mham001 wrote:

If you want to feel important, tell your friends where the list really came from - the Obama Department of Homeland Security..

mham001 wrote:

If you want to feel important, tell your friends where the list really came from - the Obama Department of Homeland Security. Tell them they shouldn't read fake news.

Flaps wrote:

Pellegrine wrote:

I've decided that I'm going on a trip to Iran and with the people I know, if I have one second of detention we will be suing the US Gov and Donal Dump himself. I've always wanted to go to Iran. I dig their food and UNESCO World Heritage sites.

Hopefully you will like their prisons too. Will you be suing the Iranian government as well when you are detained due to reciprocity?

dragon-wings wrote:

mham001 wrote:

If you want to feel important, tell your friends where the list really came from - the Obama Department of Homeland Security. Tell them they shouldn't read fake news.

Maybe I am wrong, but when Obama made that list couldn't people from those countries still enter the US? I thought it was just extra screening and stuff like that.

Hillis wrote:

By the way, how does it feel to realize you're a Fascist? I'm really interested in that.

NIKV69 wrote:

Hillis wrote:

By the way, how does it feel to realize you're a Fascist? I'm really interested in that.

Will you stop with the melodrama and fearmongering?

You have to stop the propaganda. It's sinking the DNC and fast.

You want to hate Trump, go right ahead.

If you want to get control back then get people out to vote in 2018 but please can you grow up?

tommy1808 wrote:

[url][/url]

dragon-wings wrote:

mham001 wrote:

If you want to feel important, tell your friends where the list really came from - the Obama Department of Homeland Security. Tell them they shouldn't read fake news.

Maybe I am wrong, but when Obama made that list couldn't people from those countries still enter the US? I thought it was just extra screening and stuff like that.

Just like any other group of facists they like pointing fingers "see, they are evil to" to distract people from realizing how evil they are.
But it is good to see that many posters that supported traitor Trump before he took office are now awfully quite. The remaining supporters are just the hardcore Nazis, that would have tossed Zyklon B into gaschambers without remorse, if they had been born in another time and place.

Best regards
Thomas

LMP737 wrote:

Don't want any information that contradicts your world view.

DLFREEBIRD wrote:

Not Trump's voters i think they have already come to their sense.

mham001 wrote:

Well that was convincing...of, not sure what.

If you want to feel important, tell your friends where the list really came from - the Obama Department of Homeland Security. Tell them they shouldn't read fake news.

dragon-wings wrote:

mham001 wrote:

If you want to feel important, tell your friends where the list really came from - the Obama Department of Homeland Security. Tell them they shouldn't read fake news.

Maybe I am wrong, but when Obama made that list couldn't people from those countries still enter the US? I thought it was just extra screening and stuff like that.

PanHAM wrote:

In th real News was, that 4 career Diplomat department leaders in the State Department quit and took a good number experienced staff along. it is not only geographis, human rights, international law of nations, UN refugee convention and last but not least the US Constitution have been broken by that decret / executive order. Looks like Trump chases Erdogan.

incitatus wrote:

mham001 wrote:

Well that was convincing...of, not sure what.

If you want to feel important, tell your friends where the list really came from - the Obama Department of Homeland Security. Tell them they shouldn't read fake news.

Are you saying the Trump administration is so incompetent it cannot even draft a list of countries to ban travelers from? Obama is gone. Trump is responsible for his actions. As for fake news, it is irrelevant what the media says considering how many politicians, both Left and Right spoke against the ban.

Aesma wrote:

777Jet : Kyrgyzstan and Russia aren't on Trump's list either.

Besides, if someone has invented a way to detect potential terrorists, maybe they could share the info ?

Mohammed Merah, who shot and killed seven people and wounded five, including children, was well known to French authorities, to the point both the homeland and abroad secret services envisioned (or did) use him to infiltrate terrorist cells. They didn't see him as a potential terrorist.

(f) Suspension of entry or imposition of restrictions by President
Whenever the President finds that the entry of any aliens or of any class of aliens into the United States would be detrimental to the interests of the United States, he may by proclamation, and for such period as he shall deem necessary, suspend the entry of all aliens or any class of aliens as immigrants or nonimmigrants, or impose on the entry of aliens any restrictions he may deem to be appropriate.

Dreadnought wrote:

[

Obama's 2011 executive order — the administration did not publicize it — it involved slowing down the approval of new visas for Iraqi nationals, following investigative findings that two Iraqi refugees were implicated in making improvised bombs targeting U.S. troops in Iraq. The policy also included re-vetting 58,000 Iraqi refugees already settled in the U.S., as then-Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano explained to Congress in September 2011.

The slowdown in approving Iraqi visas did prompt negative news stories and complaints from civil liberties and refugee advocacy groups at the time, and did appear to result in many fewer Iraqi refugees arriving in the U.S. in 2011, though the numbers rebounded in 2012. It did not stop all visitors from Iraq from traveling to the U.S. or halt refugee or visa applications, and unlike Trump's order, it was tied to a specific threat.

Trump identified only Syria by name in his executive order, and the other six nations covered in the ban — Iran, Iraq, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, and Yemen — did come from a list of countries "of concern" identified by the Obama administration under a visa-related law enacted in December 2015, the Visa Waiver Program Improvement and Terrorist Travel Prevention Act. The list did not affect nationals of those seven countries, though; it meant that some citizens of the 38 allied (mostly Western) countries eligible for a special visa waiver program who had spent time in the seven "countries of concern" had to "obtain a visa for travel to the United States, which generally includes an in-person interview at a U.S. Embassy or Consulate," as U.S. Customs and Border Patrol explained.

Tugger wrote:

Dread, are you willing to step up and castigate Trump for anything? Why are you loathe to admit that it is not the same as "lefties" have done before. Your deference is so categorical seeming it undermines your relevance.

The orders are not the same, yes they are legal and yes something involving a ban/slowdown has been done before but:

Obama's 2011 executive order — the administration did not publicize it — it involved slowing down the approval of new visas for Iraqi nationals, following investigative findings that two Iraqi refugees were implicated in making improvised bombs targeting U.S. troops in Iraq. The policy also included re-vetting 58,000 Iraqi refugees already settled in the U.S., as then-Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano explained to Congress in September 2011.

PanHAM wrote:

In th real News was, that 4 career Diplomat department leaders in the State Department quit and took a good number experienced staff along. it is not only geographis, human rights, international law of nations, UN refugee convention and last but not least the US Constitution have been broken by that decret / executive order. Looks like Trump chases Erdogan.

windy95 wrote:

PanHAM wrote:

In th real News was, that 4 career Diplomat department leaders in the State Department quit and took a good number experienced staff along. it is not only geographis, human rights, international law of nations, UN refugee convention and last but not least the US Constitution have been broken by that decret / executive order. Looks like Trump chases Erdogan.

How was the constitution broken? He merely followed existing federal law.

Dreadnought wrote:

Aesma wrote:

777Jet : Kyrgyzstan and Russia aren't on Trump's list either.

Besides, if someone has invented a way to detect potential terrorists, maybe they could share the info ?

Mohammed Merah, who shot and killed seven people and wounded five, including children, was well known to French authorities, to the point both the homeland and abroad secret services envisioned (or did) use him to infiltrate terrorist cells. They didn't see him as a potential terrorist.

The list of countries in the ban was made a year or so ago by the Obama administration, and is based on whether there are resources in that country that can provide a reasonably trustworthy verification of a person's identity. Immigration services have to ask for police reports etc on the applicant to find out if the person has a criminal record, for what crimes etc. Saudi Arabia is not on the list because (apparently) their records are pretty reliable. Yemen is on the list because theirs are not.

Lefties are losing their shit over this - why did they not complain when Obama did it on all Iraqis? Or when Carter stopped all people from Iran. Federal law CLEARLY allows him to do this.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1182

(f) Suspension of entry or imposition of restrictions by President
Whenever the President finds that the entry of any aliens or of any class of aliens into the United States would be detrimental to the interests of the United States, he may by proclamation, and for such period as he shall deem necessary, suspend the entry of all aliens or any class of aliens as immigrants or nonimmigrants, or impose on the entry of aliens any restrictions he may deem to be appropriate.

It’s legal. It’s temporary. Obama did it. Carter did it. Get over it.

777Jet wrote:

LMP737 wrote:

Don't want any information that contradicts your world view.

The next 4-8 years are going to be so exciting.

tommy1808 wrote:

No amount of election rigging will keep Trump in office.

Best regards
Thomas

NIKV69 wrote:

tommy1808 wrote:

No amount of election rigging will keep Trump in office.

Best regards
Thomas

I know like the first time when you all said he should drop out. didn't have a chance, would get trounced by Hillary etc.

No need to rig anything. You need to respect the American voter and stop insulting them. Maybe then you and your party can take steps to begin to rebuild you failed party that is in shambles.

777Jet wrote:

cpd wrote:

Well, he's going to take refugees from Australia:

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/ ... u0t6f.html

I'm really, really surprised by this.

I thought, and was hoping, that Trump would tell Turnbull that the US would not be taking those refugees and that Australia now had to deal with them.

mariner wrote:

That may depend on where you were born.

I'm British, both parents, but because oil my father's overseas posting I was born in a country called Palestine.

That fact - my birthplace - caused my Green Card process to be much longer and more arduous than yours, with two interviews, even though I had a fairly high powered lawyer. It wasn't unpleasant it just took time, and it helped, I guess, that I'd been working in the US for ten years. Even after it was approved there was a problem because "Palestine" doesn't now exist in the INS computers and Israel didn't exist when I was born.

So there was another meeting to decide what birth country should be on my card.

I was born in Australia.

My parents, who were also born in Australia, had to wait 2 years when they applied for green cards in the 90's. They told me about that process. Basically they had several interviews and were kept in limbo for over a year after the last interview. One day they were told that their green cards were just approved and they had to be on US soil in 90 days or they would lose the green cards. They lost a lot of money have to rush a property sale through as a result of the short notice which was different to the time frames they were given. So, yeah, I am aware of how tough the process can be, as well as how dodgy / quick / questionable. I do worry that some of those with bad intentions have connections somewhere on the inside that can make getting to the US a piece of cake for them.

Hillis wrote:

More American voters voted against them than for him. So, I do trust the voters. I don't trust the system as we have it.