I'm surprised no one has brought this up but the USA is already turning away VISA holders based on yesterday's Presidential directive on extreme vetting of Muslim Refugees and VISA holders from entering or transiting the USA.

Iran, Iraq, Syria, Yemen, Somalia, Libya and Sudan

DON'T LEAVE THE USA IF YOU HAVE A STUDENT VISA, GREEN CARD, MULTIPLE ENTRY BIZ VISA or H1-B AND YOU ARE A NATIONAL OF ONE OF THE ABOVE. YOU CANNOT GET BACK IN IF YOU DO. This mostly affects you IRANIANS as the other states don't get that many Visas by comparison.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01 ... e-program/

US PASSPORT HOLDERS DO NOT GO TO IRAN OR TRANSIT. YOU WILL NOT BE SENT BACK, YOU WILL BE JAILED.

It has yet to be reported in the Western Media but Iran has already banned all Americans and dual-nationals holding that passports.

This doesn't apply to Iranian Americans holding a valid Iranian passport. Tell your ethnic friends!

I've seen that Iran has reciprocated about one hour ago on a French TV news channel.

It's the beginning of the end...

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-t ... SKBN15C0KX

I have a big problem with this. Haven't people with valid visas already been through a thorough vetting process ?

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politic ... -1.2957956

BTW for anyone who supports this why the hell is Saudi Arabia not on the list ? I would love for any politician to have the balls to come out and publicly ask that question...

solarflyer22 wrote:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01 ... e-program/

US PASSPORT HOLDERS DO NOT GO TO IRAN OR TRANSIT. YOU WILL NOT BE SENT BACK, YOU WILL BE JAILED.

Yea, that's bullsh-t.

I always get my US visa news from UK newspapers based upon vague "reports". Fake news much?

On the other hand, it should have been extended to more countries.

alberchico wrote:

BTW for anyone who supports this why the hell is Saudi Arabia not on the list ? I would love for any politician to have the balls to come out and publicly ask that question...

Yeah, the overall effort seems a bit heavy-handed... not quite the way I would've gone about it, but it's pretty much what Trump promised during the campaign. As for Saudi Arabia, I agree 100%. That's a glaring omission from the list of countries on the banned list.

NoTime wrote:

alberchico wrote:

BTW for anyone who supports this why the hell is Saudi Arabia not on the list ? I would love for any politician to have the balls to come out and publicly ask that question...

Yeah, the overall effort seems a bit heavy-handed... not quite the way I would've gone about it, but it's pretty much what Trump promised during the campaign. As for Saudi Arabia, I agree 100%. That's a glaring omission from the list of countries on the banned list.

Hmmmm.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politic ... -1.2957956

Odious twerp...

There is a guy on my cruise right now who I happen to know is a green card holder and he is from Iran, but lives in the Bay Area. He's openly gay. If he gets sent back to Iran he will be killed. I am really worried about him right now.

I hope those of you who voted for Trump are happy with yourselves right now.

DocLightning wrote:

There is a guy on my cruise right now who I happen to know is a green card holder and he is from Iran, but lives in the Bay Area. He's openly gay. If he gets sent back to Iran he will be killed. I am really worried about him right now.

I hope those of you who voted for Trump are happy with yourselves right now.

Course they are.. Iranian and Gay? Double whammy for them.

Crazy that even green card and visa holders are denied entry. Scary times.

Let's see how this one lasts and what the ramifications are. For instance, EU legislation requires reciprocity for visa free access and if EU-Iran dual nationals are denied entry to the US on a routine basis, then that criterion is no longer fulfilled. I am not suggesting that leaders on this side of the Atlantic might also make such extreme decisions but there probably will be some sort of response.

AirPacific747 wrote:

Crazy that even green card and visa holders are denied entry. Scary times.

Presumably also anyone transiting through the US who has dual nationality will be barred?

vrbarreto wrote:

AirPacific747 wrote:

Crazy that even green card and visa holders are denied entry. Scary times.

Presumably also anyone transiting through the US who has dual nationality will be barred?

Yes. There is no airside transit in the US.

Any US nationals who voted Trump should be denied entry into any foreign country. Simple as that. I certainly don't want any of you pricks in my country. I am utterly embarrassed that years ago I was so excited about traveling to America. Not any more.

DocLightning wrote:

There is a guy on my cruise right now who I happen to know is a green card holder and he is from Iran, but lives in the Bay Area. He's openly gay. If he gets sent back to Iran he will be killed. I am really worried about him right now.

I hope those of you who voted for Trump are happy with yourselves right now.

I am very happy with trumps first week. I would like to have seen Saudi Arabia and Pakistan on the ban list as well but its a good start so far.

I also hope we can see the US withdraw from that silly paris treaty.

How long before an IS member/sympathiser already in the US goes on a killing spree in support of their "brothers and sisters"? Seems the hidden hand may have already found a way of prolonging the "War on Terror" through Trump.

Double down Trump, played by those that wish to diminish the USA. And he does just what they want because he is easily manipulated by those that know how to play the "bully" game. He just can't not respond and then double down on anything he says.

Just watch how Putin and Xi (and "terrorists") push him so that he says something and then he'll double down to the detriment of the USA. (Oh internally it'll be viewed by fools as wonderful and "making America great again" but there are only ~350 million here and 7 billion in the rest of the world and we are great because we are the greatest nation in the world. Some people just have no clue about that.).

Tugg

Ballsy move for someone who has many, many high-visbility properties overseas.

And those Iraqi translators who helped US troops? See, this your reward! A big F U there. I'm sure this won't affect troop safety at all.

Oh well, as long as Cletus in East Bumfucke is happy that no one with a vagina got to be POTUS. *files nails*

wstakl wrote:

Any US nationals who voted Trump should be denied entry into any foreign country. .

Problem with that is most of the oafs who are jumping with joy for this move don't even own a passport. They are perfectly fine in flyover country waiting for America to be ''great again''.

alberchico wrote:

Haven't people with valid visas already been through a thorough vetting process ?

Exactly! Uncle Sam probably knows the results of your latest prostate exam if you have successfully applied for a visa.

DocLightning wrote:

There is a guy on my cruise right now who I happen to know is a green card holder and he is from Iran, but lives in the Bay Area. He's openly gay. If he gets sent back to Iran he will be killed. I am really worried about him right now.

I feel sad, angry and helpless. Right now, I was looking up how foreigners can get Swiss residence permits.


David

DocLightning wrote:

There is a guy on my cruise right now who I happen to know is a green card holder and he is from Iran, but lives in the Bay Area. He's openly gay. If he gets sent back to Iran he will be killed. I am really worried about him right now.

I hope those of you who voted for Trump are happy with yourselves right now.

If it's any consolation your friend *might* be OK.

the BBC is reporting that individuals like your friend would be treated on a case-by-case basis, if he's a Green Card holder. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38783512 (abt half way down)

If it comes to the worst, tell him that I'm sure Canada or the UK would give him some status as a refugee. Cold comfort but better than nothing

winterlight wrote:

How long before an IS member/sympathiser already in the US goes on a killing spree in support of their "brothers and sisters"? Seems the hidden hand may have already found a way of prolonging the "War on Terror" through Trump.

And what, pray tell, have they been waiting for? They haven't waited for Trump up until now around the world. They are more like the person who is just looking for any excuse to punch you in the face.

Hopefully reason prevails and there are expediencies to getting back in the country for those who are abroad. However, if the idea is to more thoroughly vet these folks, it probably won't be quick enough for most.

For the example that DocLightning used of the guy on the cruise, I'm going to "assume" that he'll be allowed back in since he's on a closed-loop tour versus having left the country to return at a later date. I'm probably more glass-half-full on that one, though. I do understand the problem, though. I work with a woman from Iran who fled four years ago - via Turkey - to the US due to religious persecution. She knows she will never be able to return to her country so wouldn't be traveling there regardless, but the thought of being forced to return there would obviously be borderline tragic for her at this stage.

alberchico wrote:

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-immigration-greencard-idUSKBN15C0KX

I have a big problem with this. Haven't people with valid visas already been through a thorough vetting process ?

According to Trump, what process? He has cast doubts over the vetting process the entire time.

As somebody who has gone through the entire process, I can assure you that any concerns he has about the vetting process are very warranted.

DocLightning wrote:

I hope those of you who voted for Trump are happy with yourselves right now.

I'm happy that he is doing what he said he would do.

You people are going to whinge no matter what so it doesn't really matter; If he keeps his tough promises, he is bad. If he doesn't keep a promise, he is bad. Enjoy the next 4-8 years! How could such a bad man win the election and become POTUS???

Channex757 wrote:

the BBC is reporting that individuals like your friend would be treated on a case-by-case basis, if he's a Green Card holder.

Isn't all immigration on a case by case basis?

This is nothing more than a clusterfuck.

Is anyone really surprised by this? This is what the modern Republican Party is all about. Fear, hate and ignorance.

johnboy wrote:

Ballsy move for someone who has many, many high-visbility properties overseas.

*

Ah yes. But not in any of the countries he named. Noticed in countries where he has properties none of those countries made the list.

777Jet wrote:

alberchico wrote:

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-immigration-greencard-idUSKBN15C0KX

I have a big problem with this. Haven't people with valid visas already been through a thorough vetting process ?

According to Trump, what process? He has cast doubts over the vetting process the entire time.

As somebody who has gone through the entire process, I can assure you that any concerns he has about the vetting process are very warranted.

DocLightning wrote:

I hope those of you who voted for Trump are happy with yourselves right now.

I'm happy that he is doing what he said he would do.

You people are going to whinge no matter what so it doesn't really matter; If he keeps his tough promises, he is bad. If he doesn't keep a promise, he is bad. Enjoy the next 4-8 years! How could such a bad man win the election and become POTUS???

What concerns about the vetting process should we have?

Thank all those rednecks who voted for that ginger bastard.

I can't wait for the southern wall construction to begin. Then we will have 1lbs of tomatoes for around $80. But Wayne from Ozarks ain't care about it.

I really don't see how this ban will help fight terror he in the US. The 9-11 attacks, Orlando, San Bernardino, Fort Hood ect. Not one terror attack in the US has been done by a immigrant.

dragon-wings wrote:

I really don't see how this ban will help fight terror he in the US. The 9-11 attacks, Orlando, San Bernardino, Fort Hood ect. Not one terror attack in the US has been done by a immigrant.

Not that they haven't been trying...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_u ... _post-9/11

CaliAtenza wrote:

777Jet wrote:

alberchico wrote:

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-immigration-greencard-idUSKBN15C0KX

I have a big problem with this. Haven't people with valid visas already been through a thorough vetting process ?

According to Trump, what process? He has cast doubts over the vetting process the entire time.

As somebody who has gone through the entire process, I can assure you that any concerns he has about the vetting process are very warranted.

DocLightning wrote:

I hope those of you who voted for Trump are happy with yourselves right now.

I'm happy that he is doing what he said he would do.

You people are going to whinge no matter what so it doesn't really matter; If he keeps his tough promises, he is bad. If he doesn't keep a promise, he is bad. Enjoy the next 4-8 years! How could such a bad man win the election and become POTUS???

What concerns about the vetting process should we have?

How easy it is to get a green card to begin with.

I got my green card that led to my US citizenship like this:

I was in the US on a 90 day visa waiver stamp. I decided that I wanted to live in the US for a while. A family friend who I informed told me that she knew a guy that works at the INS (called INS at that time) that happened to be across the street from where she worked. My family friend told me that she set up an appointment for an interview. I attended the interview and dropped of the paperwork. The interview guy (the friend of the family friend) told me that I would get the green card and not to worry, the interview was just a formality. Anyway, it was that easy. No proper process or vetting at all if you ask me. I think it cost between $200-$250 USD back then.

So, when I said ""As somebody who has gone through the entire process, I can assure you that any concerns he has about the vetting process are very warranted."" I was referring to my 'dodgy' experience. Way too easy...

777Jet wrote:

[
How easy it is to get a green card to begin with.

I got my green card that led to my US citizenship like this:

I was in the US on a 90 day visa waiver stamp. I decided that I wanted to live in the US for a while. A family friend who I informed told me that she knew a guy that works at the INS (called INS at that time) that happened to be across the street from where she worked. My family friend told me that she set up an appointment for an interview. I attended the interview and dropped of the paperwork. The interview guy (the friend of the family friend) told me that I would get the green card and not to worry, the interview was just a formality. Anyway, it was that easy. No proper process or vetting at all if you ask me. I think it cost between $200-$250 USD back then.

So, when I said ""As somebody who has gone through the entire process, I can assure you that any concerns he has about the vetting process are very warranted."" I was referring to my 'dodgy' experience. Way too easy...

I'm guessing you have the right skin tone and pray to the correct imaginary friend.

One huge factor in vetting for visas has always been country of origin. It is no secret that visas are much, much more difficult to get based on nationality, this is nothing new. If your country has a high rate of over-stays, you are going to have a hard time.

mham001 wrote:

dragon-wings wrote:

I really don't see how this ban will help fight terror he in the US. The 9-11 attacks, Orlando, San Bernardino, Fort Hood ect. Not one terror attack in the US has been done by a immigrant.

Not that they haven't been trying...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_u ... _post-9/11

What was thee point of that link? That link did not say anything about any of those people being immigrants.

777Jet wrote:

CaliAtenza wrote:

777Jet wrote:

According to Trump, what process? He has cast doubts over the vetting process the entire time.

As somebody who has gone through the entire process, I can assure you that any concerns he has about the vetting process are very warranted.



I'm happy that he is doing what he said he would do.

You people are going to whinge no matter what so it doesn't really matter; If he keeps his tough promises, he is bad. If he doesn't keep a promise, he is bad. Enjoy the next 4-8 years! How could such a bad man win the election and become POTUS???

What concerns about the vetting process should we have?

How easy it is to get a green card to begin with.

I got my green card that led to my US citizenship like this:

I was in the US on a 90 day visa waiver stamp. I decided that I wanted to live in the US for a while. A family friend who I informed told me that she knew a guy that works at the INS (called INS at that time) that happened to be across the street from where she worked. My family friend told me that she set up an appointment for an interview. I attended the interview and dropped of the paperwork. The interview guy (the friend of the family friend) told me that I would get the green card and not to worry, the interview was just a formality. Anyway, it was that easy. No proper process or vetting at all if you ask me. I think it cost between $200-$250 USD back then.

So, when I said ""As somebody who has gone through the entire process, I can assure you that any concerns he has about the vetting process are very warranted."" I was referring to my 'dodgy' experience. Way too easy...

You're from Australia right? That's probably why it was so easy.

dragon-wings wrote:

mham001 wrote:

dragon-wings wrote:

I really don't see how this ban will help fight terror he in the US. The 9-11 attacks, Orlando, San Bernardino, Fort Hood ect. Not one terror attack in the US has been done by a immigrant.

Not that they haven't been trying...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_u ... _post-9/11

What was thee point of that link? That link did not say anything about any of those people being immigrants.

Gee, I don't know. Maybe a more inquisitive person would click on some of the links contained within and learn something. If they were inclined.

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink.

dragon-wings wrote:

Not one terror attack in the US has been done by a immigrant.

Whilst the Boston Marathon bombers were US citizens, they were born outside of the USA (Russia & Kyrgyzstan) and are therefore immigrants.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dzhokhar_ ... background

""The Tsarnaev family were forcibly moved from Chechnya to the Soviet republic of Kyrgyzstan in the years following World War II.[22] His father, Anzor Tsarnaev, is a Chechen, and his mother, Zubeidat Tsarnaeva, is an Avar.[23][24][25] The couple had two sons, Tamerlan, born in the Kalmyk Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic[26] in 1986, and Dzhokhar, born in Kyrgyzstan in 1993.[27] The parents also have two daughters.[28][29][30] Anzor is a traditional Muslim who shuns religious extremism[31] and raised his children as Muslims.[32][33][34] According to some, other Chechen Americans in the area apparently did not consider the American branch of the family to be "fully" Chechen because they had never lived in Chechnya.[27]

As children, Tamerlan and Dzhokhar lived in Tokmok, Kyrgyzstan. In 2001, the family moved to Makhachkala, Dagestan, in the Russian Federation.[35][36][37] In April 2002, the Tsarnaev parents and Dzhokhar went to the United States on a 90-day tourist visa.[38][39][40] Anzor Tsarnaev applied for asylum, citing fears of deadly persecution due to his ties to Chechnya.[41]

Tamerlan was left in the care of his uncle Ruslan in Kyrgyzstan,[22] and arrived in the U.S. around two years later.[42] In the U.S. the parents received asylum and then filed for their four children, who received "derivative asylum status".[43] They settled on Norfolk Street in Cambridge, Massachusetts. Tamerlan lived in Cambridge on Norfolk Street until his death.[44]

The family "was in constant transition" for the next decade.[22] Anzor and Zubeidat Tsarnaev both received welfare benefits.[45] The father worked as a backyard mechanic and the mother worked as a cosmetologist[46] until she lost her job for refusing to work in a business that served men. In March 2007, the family was granted legal permanent residence.[42]""

mham001 wrote:

dragon-wings wrote:

mham001 wrote:

Not that they haven't been trying...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_u ... _post-9/11

What was thee point of that link? That link did not say anything about any of those people being immigrants.

Gee, I don't know. Maybe a more inquisitive person would click on some of the links contained within and learn something. If they were inclined.

I did click on about 7 or 8 of the names in that wiki link and so far none said they were a immigrant. I will continue looking but so far none said they were a immigrant to the US.

dragon-wings wrote:

mham001 wrote:

dragon-wings wrote:

What was thee point of that link? That link did not say anything about any of those people being immigrants.

Gee, I don't know. Maybe a more inquisitive person would click on some of the links contained within and learn something. If they were inclined.

I did click on about 7 or 8 of the names in that wiki link and so far none said they were a immigrant. I will continue looking but so far none said they were a immigrant to the US.

Interesting. First two I clicked were both Pakistani.

In fact, just about every Arabic name on that list is an immigrant, and most(?) of the names appear to be Arabic.

dragon-wings wrote:

I really don't see how this ban will help fight terror he in the US. The 9-11 attacks, Orlando, San Bernardino, Fort Hood ect. Not one terror attack in the US has been done by a immigrant.

Boston Bombing and Times Square attempted Bombing were.

CaliAtenza wrote:

777Jet wrote:

CaliAtenza wrote:

What concerns about the vetting process should we have?

How easy it is to get a green card to begin with.

I got my green card that led to my US citizenship like this:

I was in the US on a 90 day visa waiver stamp. I decided that I wanted to live in the US for a while. A family friend who I informed told me that she knew a guy that works at the INS (called INS at that time) that happened to be across the street from where she worked. My family friend told me that she set up an appointment for an interview. I attended the interview and dropped of the paperwork. The interview guy (the friend of the family friend) told me that I would get the green card and not to worry, the interview was just a formality. Anyway, it was that easy. No proper process or vetting at all if you ask me. I think it cost between $200-$250 USD back then.

So, when I said ""As somebody who has gone through the entire process, I can assure you that any concerns he has about the vetting process are very warranted."" I was referring to my 'dodgy' experience. Way too easy...

You're from Australia right? That's probably why it was so easy.

Yes.

It was actually harder to get a green card if you were from a developed country similar to the US back then and in the 90's. You had to prove how you would benefit from living in the US over where you lived. Back then, you could get a green card much easier if you were from Mexico or another developing country than from a similar first world country like Australia. My parents had to go through hell to get their green cards.

Perhaps the friend of a family friend owed a favor? I don't know and I really didn't care. I just jumped at the opportunity. Nonetheless, the experience evidenced to me just how easy a green card can be obtained. I'm sure bad people have connections in the system.

LMP737 wrote:

777Jet wrote:

[
How easy it is to get a green card to begin with.

I got my green card that led to my US citizenship like this:

I was in the US on a 90 day visa waiver stamp. I decided that I wanted to live in the US for a while. A family friend who I informed told me that she knew a guy that works at the INS (called INS at that time) that happened to be across the street from where she worked. My family friend told me that she set up an appointment for an interview. I attended the interview and dropped of the paperwork. The interview guy (the friend of the family friend) told me that I would get the green card and not to worry, the interview was just a formality. Anyway, it was that easy. No proper process or vetting at all if you ask me. I think it cost between $200-$250 USD back then.

So, when I said ""As somebody who has gone through the entire process, I can assure you that any concerns he has about the vetting process are very warranted."" I was referring to my 'dodgy' experience. Way too easy...

I'm guessing you have the right skin tone and pray to the correct imaginary friend.

I don't pray at all. I'm not a religious person. I can't stand very religious people. But thanks for asking...

dragon-wings wrote:

I really don't see how this ban will help fight terror he in the US. The 9-11 attacks, Orlando, San Bernardino, Fort Hood ect. Not one terror attack in the US has been done by a immigrant.

Maybe I should of been more clear. I ment Refugee, not immigrant.

dragon-wings wrote:

dragon-wings wrote:

I really don't see how this ban will help fight terror he in the US. The 9-11 attacks, Orlando, San Bernardino, Fort Hood ect. Not one terror attack in the US has been done by a immigrant.

Maybe I should of been more clear. I ment Refugee, not immigrant.

I doubt that is accurate too, if you were to really look at some of the cases. Easy to spot, some of them, for example, this fine fellow from Afghanistan was most likely a "refugee"...

Zazi was born in a village in Paktia Province, Afghanistan.[10] He has two sisters and two brothers.[10] At the age of 7 in 1992, he and his family moved to the city of Peshawar in Pakistan where they settled as Afghan refugees.[11][12]

In 1999, he and the family left Pakistan and immigrated to New York City. They moved into a two-bedroom apartment in the Flushing, Queens section of the city.[5][10][13] Mohammed Wali Zazi, Najibullah's father and now a naturalized U.S. citizen, found work as a New York City taxi driver.

Zazi underwent weapons and explosives training at an al-Qaeda training camp in Pakistan in 2008. On September 9, 2009, he drove from his home in Aurora, Colorado, to New York City, intending to detonate explosives on the New York City subway during rush hour as one of three coordinated suicide "martyrdom" bombings.[2][7] Spooked, however, by surveillance by U.S. intelligence, and warned by a local imam that the authorities were inquiring about him, he abruptly flew back to Colorado. He was arrested days later.

777Jet : Kyrgyzstan and Russia aren't on Trump's list either.

Besides, if someone has invented a way to detect potential terrorists, maybe they could share the info ?

Mohammed Merah, who shot and killed seven people and wounded five, including children, was well known to French authorities, to the point both the homeland and abroad secret services envisioned (or did) use him to infiltrate terrorist cells. They didn't see him as a potential terrorist.

mham001 wrote:

dragon-wings wrote:

dragon-wings wrote:

I really don't see how this ban will help fight terror he in the US. The 9-11 attacks, Orlando, San Bernardino, Fort Hood ect. Not one terror attack in the US has been done by a immigrant.

Maybe I should of been more clear. I ment Refugee, not immigrant.

I doubt that is accurate too, if you were to really look at some of the cases. Easy to spot, some of them, for example, this fine fellow from Afghanistan was most likely a "refugee"...

Zazi was born in a village in Paktia Province, Afghanistan.[10] He has two sisters and two brothers.[10] At the age of 7 in 1992, he and his family moved to the city of Peshawar in Pakistan where they settled as Afghan refugees.[11][12]

In 1999, he and the family left Pakistan and immigrated to New York City. They moved into a two-bedroom apartment in the Flushing, Queens section of the city.[5][10][13] Mohammed Wali Zazi, Najibullah's father and now a naturalized U.S. citizen, found work as a New York City taxi driver.

Zazi underwent weapons and explosives training at an al-Qaeda training camp in Pakistan in 2008. On September 9, 2009, he drove from his home in Aurora, Colorado, to New York City, intending to detonate explosives on the New York City subway during rush hour as one of three coordinated suicide "martyrdom" bombings.[2][7] Spooked, however, by surveillance by U.S. intelligence, and warned by a local imam that the authorities were inquiring about him, he abruptly flew back to Colorado. He was arrested days later.

How would what is happening today stop someone like Zazi? According to what you posted he was only 14 when he came to the US. He didn't join al-Qaeda until 2008.

A ban on immigrants and refugees, while I wouldn't necessarily agree with it on a moral level, wouldn't be outside of what Trump promised during his campaign and also wouldn't be very far removed from the US' very, very strict policies on people from those countries since 9/11. However, it has ABSOLUTELY crossed the line by

1) Revoking Green Cards and visas for those who already had them. A lot of those people have been fully vetted and approved, and many have been living and working in the US for years. I can't imagine being barred from going back to your house, family, car, pets, friends, after a visit home. Not only is it repugnant for anyone with a modicum of empathy, but also totally unnecessary.
2) Not giving any kind of notice whatsoever. I mean, seriously. I could understand if there was some sort of massive coordinated attack, but shutting everyone out immediately is unnecessarily disruptive.

Thankfully, I see a lot of people, even Conservatives and Trump voters, pissed off about the Green Card/Visa aspect, if not the immigration/refugee aspect. It simply goes to far, and there's already an army of lawyers trying to fight it. I wonder if the order will be rescinded, or maybe just amended, in the next few days.

Starting to see via Facebook from places like Mother Jones and HuffPo that a judge has issued a stay against Trump's immigration ban. About someone steps in and puts a break on this would-be Emporer.

777Jet wrote:

I don't pray at all. I'm not a religious person. I can't stand very religious people. But thanks for asking...

I think you get the point I was trying to make.