nitepilot79
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Tubman To Replace Jackson On $20 (US) Bill

Wed Apr 20, 2016 4:55 pm

Good news today. He was a bastard:

http://www.nbcnews.com/business/busi...ent-andrew-jackson-20-bill-n559251

Article quote:

"Treasury Secretary Jack Lew will announce Wednesday that abolitionist Harriet Tubman will replace former President Andrew Jackson on the $20 bill."

 
sccutler
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RE: Tubman To Replace Jackson On $20 (US) Bill

Wed Apr 20, 2016 8:18 pm

Harriet Tubman is a worthy person to commemorate.
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LittleFokker
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RE: Tubman To Replace Jackson On $20 (US) Bill

Wed Apr 20, 2016 8:30 pm

Some reports I'm reading are stating that the new bill may not be ready until 2030. Why the hell does it take so long? You draw a new template, incorporate all the known currency security technology features (and any new ones that are ready to implement), and start printing. Banks turn in older bills to get new bills. Why should that take more than a year to accomplish?

Quoting sccutler (Reply 1):
Harriet Tubman is a worthy person to commemorate.

   Although I should say that compared to Andrew Jackson, 99% of all Americans who have ever lived would be worthy of commemoration. Tubman is a good, smart choice (at least, if you are in favor of the idea of putting any humans on the currency).
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N776AU
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RE: Tubman To Replace Jackson On $20 (US) Bill

Wed Apr 20, 2016 9:27 pm

Worthy and all that, yes, but at its root this all just political correctness.
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Acheron
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RE: Tubman To Replace Jackson On $20 (US) Bill

Wed Apr 20, 2016 9:50 pm

Quoting N776AU (Reply 3):

Worthy and all that, yes, but at its root this all just political correctness.

And?. You said that like it is a bad thing.

Maybe you want George Custer in the bill instead. Less "PC" and all...
 
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RE: Tubman To Replace Jackson On $20 (US) Bill

Wed Apr 20, 2016 10:03 pm

Quoting N776AU (Reply 3):
Worthy and all that, yes, but at its root this all just political correctness.

If by political correctness you mean correcting a mistake, then yes.

Otherwise your two points are so at odds as to make your post laughable.
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RE: Tubman To Replace Jackson On $20 (US) Bill

Wed Apr 20, 2016 10:09 pm

Quoting N776AU (Reply 3):
Worthy and all that, yes, but at its root this all just political correctness.

Are you angry that Jackson is being replaced, or that he's being replaced by a woman?
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flyingturtle
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RE: Tubman To Replace Jackson On $20 (US) Bill

Wed Apr 20, 2016 10:13 pm

Somebody please tell me... why was Jackson put on the bill in the first place?  Wow!


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zckls04
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RE: Tubman To Replace Jackson On $20 (US) Bill

Wed Apr 20, 2016 11:15 pm

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 7):
Somebody please tell me... why was Jackson put on the bill in the first place?

Oddly, it seems that nobody knows. Even the Treasury.
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Tugger
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RE: Tubman To Replace Jackson On $20 (US) Bill

Wed Apr 20, 2016 11:18 pm

Quoting N776AU (Reply 3):
Worthy and all that, yes, but at its root this all just political correctness.

And...? When you get right down to it, it is fine and a perfectly good idea to make the change. It is for certain not a "bad idea". And the honor is truly appropriate to be made/given.

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 7):
Somebody please tell me... why was Jackson put on the bill in the first place? Wow!

No one officially knows other than he was probably seen a a perfectly acceptable person to give the honor back in 1928.

Quote:
Historians have some ideas as to why putting Jackson on the $20 seemed like a good idea in 1928, when his face was selected to replace Grover Cleveland's. But as it turns out, nobody seems to know for sure why a Treasury Department committee assigned Old Hickory's portrait to the bill.

No really, we checked. The Treasury Department, which has the authority to determine who appears on what bills (so long as that individual is already dead), says on its Web site that its own historical records "do not suggest" why certain presidents ended up on certain bills during a blitz of portrait selections in 1928.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/03/06/why-is-andrew-jackson-on-the-20-bill-the-answer-may-be-lost-to-history/

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fr8mech
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RE: Tubman To Replace Jackson On $20 (US) Bill

Wed Apr 20, 2016 11:58 pm

Quoting N776AU (Reply 3):
Worthy and all that, yes, but at its root this all just political correctness.

I disagree. This is the most non-political choice and a worthy historical figure in American history.

Quoting Acheron (Reply 4):
And?. You said that like it is a bad thing.

Yes, it would be a bad thing if the decision were made to in deference to political correctness. Political correctness has been, is and always will be, a cancer on free speech.
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seb146
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RE: Tubman To Replace Jackson On $20 (US) Bill

Thu Apr 21, 2016 12:30 am

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 10):
Political correctness has been, is and always will be, a cancer on free speech.

Making people feel human is a cancer on free speech? Including others and equality is a cancer on free speech? Yes, sometimes, PC does go to far, but it does have it's place and is a good thing.

As far as currency, I think it is a good idea. This country needs to know more about it's history than just "A bunch of rich white guys did stuff." There were women and people of all nationalities who built this country. It is past time that we recognize them with more than just a footnote.
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L-188
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RE: Tubman To Replace Jackson On $20 (US) Bill

Thu Apr 21, 2016 12:34 am

Complete waste of time.

There is no need to replace Jackson.

Sad part it is the racists and bigots in the democrat party that want this change, which is ironic considering Jackson was a democrat.
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RE: Tubman To Replace Jackson On $20 (US) Bill

Thu Apr 21, 2016 12:38 am

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 10):
Political correctness has been, is and always will be, a cancer on free speech.

No, political correctness isn't a cancer. Loss of freedom of speech is, as it's the car in padres like China and Russia, and they are two different things.

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RE: Tubman To Replace Jackson On $20 (US) Bill

Thu Apr 21, 2016 12:49 am

Quoting L-188 (Reply 12):

Complete waste of time.

There is no need to replace Jackson.

Sad part it is the racists and bigots in the democrat party that want this change, which is ironic considering Jackson was a democrat.

Okay your elaborate practical joke just jumped the shark.
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RE: Tubman To Replace Jackson On $20 (US) Bill

Thu Apr 21, 2016 12:49 am

Quoting L-188 (Reply 12):
There is no need to replace Jackson.

The guy led a thousand mile death march and didn't like the concept of a Federal Reserve in the first place. If anything, he shouldn't have been on it in the first place.
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fr8mech
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RE: Tubman To Replace Jackson On $20 (US) Bill

Thu Apr 21, 2016 12:50 am

Quoting seb146 (Reply 11):
Making people feel human is a cancer on free speech?

I can not make someone feel any more or less human with my speech; that power lies strictly with the person being spoken about.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 11):
Including others and equality

All for that, so long as the process of inclusion doesn't exclude. You know, those tolerant people that are tolerant only to those that agree with them.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 11):
PC does go to far, but it does have it's place and is a good thing.

Nope, it usually goes too far and is not a good thing.

Quoting L-188 (Reply 12):
There is no need to replace Jackson.

There may not have been a need to replace Jackson, but there seemed to be a desire to. It's a good thing. We need to periodically update some of our currency and it should help with counterfeiting...though I imagine the scam artists will come out of the woodwork trying to convince holders of the current bills that they are worthless. But, for pennies on the dollar, they'll gladly take that worthless piece of cotton and linen off their hands.
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RE: Tubman To Replace Jackson On $20 (US) Bill

Thu Apr 21, 2016 12:57 am

Quoting LittleFokker (Reply 2):
Some reports I'm reading are stating that the new bill may not be ready until 2030. Why the hell does it take so long? You draw a new template, incorporate all the known currency security technology features (and any new ones that are ready to implement), and start printing. Banks turn in older bills to get new bills. Why should that take more than a year to accomplish?

This is the government we're talking about. Nothing happens fast.

Quoting L-188 (Reply 12):
There is no need to replace Jackson.

Need, no, not technically. However, Jackson has had an 88+ year run and most ironically, he was entirely against the concept of a national bank.

The Bank of England will have Winston Churchill (statesman), Jane Austen (author), Adam Smith (economist), and Matthew Boulton & James Watt (industrialists & inventors) on its latest series of banknotes. I think that is worthwhile to represent the breadth of contributions people make across all aspects of society, not only those of political leaders.
 
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RE: Tubman To Replace Jackson On $20 (US) Bill

Thu Apr 21, 2016 1:23 am

Quoting threeifbyair (Reply 17):
The Bank of England will have Winston Churchill (statesman), Jane Austen (author), Adam Smith (economist), and Matthew Boulton & James Watt (industrialists & inventors) on its latest series of banknotes. I think that is worthwhile to represent the breadth of contributions people make across all aspects of society, not only those of political leaders.

Weird, I thought it always had to be the reigning monarch on the currency & postage stamps.

Mmmmmmmm, post offices...   

Hey I am all in favor of making Harriet Tubman as visible as she will be as the face on the $20 bill. Her story is incredible and it will bring great inspiration to the young folks who will now be asking about her.

Even if were true that "there's no need to replace Jackson"   , I don't see how burning a need there has to be to replace something - let alone an old racist fart - in order to do something new. Moreover, this isn't something new for newness's sake; this is giving some respect to our nation's diversity. There wasn't any "need" at all to replace Benjamin Franklin on the 50¢ piece, but I don't hear a lot of opposition to Kennedy being there in his place.

[Edited 2016-04-20 18:25:51]
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RE: Tubman To Replace Jackson On $20 (US) Bill

Thu Apr 21, 2016 1:29 am

Quoting nitepilot79 (Thread starter):
Tubman To Replace Jackson On $20 (US) Bill

Fine by me but I'm really glad Alexander Hamilton will remain on the $10. Frankly he should have his picture on every bill.
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Mir
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RE: Tubman To Replace Jackson On $20 (US) Bill

Thu Apr 21, 2016 1:52 am

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 10):
This is the most non-political choice and a worthy historical figure in American history.

I'd have gone with Eleanor Roosevelt, but Tubman is a good choice as well.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 10):
it would be a bad thing if the decision were made to in deference to political correctness.

Is a desire to put a woman on a banknote really in deference to political correctness? There have been a lot of influential women in this country's history, and they deserve recognition. And Jackson is the most worthy candidate to come off a banknote. So the decision seems like a very sensible one.

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RE: Tubman To Replace Jackson On $20 (US) Bill

Thu Apr 21, 2016 2:02 am

Quoting L-188 (Reply 12):
There is no need to replace Jackson.

Sad part it is the racists and bigots in the democrat party that want this change, which is ironic considering Jackson was a democrat.

Nobody cares what party he was in. He signed the Indian Removal Bill - which is pretty much our only instance of federally-sanctioned ethnic cleansing. And if you're going to claim the outcome since 1830 has been positive for the country, you're on the wrong side of history. End of story, chapter and verse.
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fr8mech
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RE: Tubman To Replace Jackson On $20 (US) Bill

Thu Apr 21, 2016 2:10 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 20):
I'd have gone with Eleanor Roosevelt, but Tubman is a good choice as well.

It's a toss-up. We've decided that we want a woman on our currency. Either woman is acceptable. Both are historical figures and advanced American society. Both are easily recognizable as such.

Quoting Mir (Reply 20):
Is a desire to put a woman on a banknote really in deference to political correctness?

I never said it was in deference to to political correctness, I said it would have been a bad thing if it was in deference to political correctness.
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Acheron
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RE: Tubman To Replace Jackson On $20 (US) Bill

Thu Apr 21, 2016 2:19 am

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 10):
deference to political correctness

From personal experience, those who complain the most about PC, are people who are pissed about not being able to be assholes and bigots towards others without being called out on their shit.
 
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RE: Tubman To Replace Jackson On $20 (US) Bill

Thu Apr 21, 2016 2:33 am

Quoting Acheron (Reply 23):
From personal experience, those who complain the most about PC, are people who are pissed about not being able to be assholes and bigots towards others without being called out on their shit.

You can call me out on anything I say; it doesn't bug me one bit. PC is the attempt to stifle free speech in some misguided effort to "equalize" everyone's outcomes and feelings. Once again, you do not have a right to not be offended. If you want a "safe space", that is free from challenging, uncomfortable thoughts and ideas, stay home.

If you think I'm an asshole or bigot when I say something, let's debate it; don't call me a bigot or a racist or an asshole or x-ophobe/ist and try to shut down the conversation by dismissing me. Or, even worse, trying to get the government to silence me...debate me, engage me. That is the essence of free speech...not that PC bullshit being peddled out there.
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coolian2
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RE: Tubman To Replace Jackson On $20 (US) Bill

Thu Apr 21, 2016 2:35 am

Quoting Acheron (Reply 23):
From personal experience, those who complain the most about PC, are people who are pissed about not being able to be assholes and bigots towards others without being called out on their shit.

Yep. They can say something (usually misinformed, or outright wrong) and the second you try to reply rationally you're shouted down.

People in a discussion who start complaining about political correctness are a huge red warning sign for me to get out and stop wasting my time.

I'd like to point out in this case I'm not referring to fr8mech, and I'm aware I'm painting with a very broad brush. But it's a trend I've noticed.
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RE: Tubman To Replace Jackson On $20 (US) Bill

Thu Apr 21, 2016 2:47 am

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 24):
If you think I'm an asshole or bigot when I say something, let's debate it; don't call me a bigot or a racist or an asshole or x-ophobe/ist and try to shut down the conversation by dismissing me. Or, even worse, trying to get the government to silence me...debate me, engage me. That is the essence of free speech...not that PC bullshit being peddled out there.

That's all well and good, but has nothing to do with revisionist right-wing interpretations of Andrew Jackson's legacy. It is not PC to say that he was a terrible human being, and the Indian Removal Act would never pass Constitutional muster today.
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Airstud
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RE: Tubman To Replace Jackson On $20 (US) Bill

Thu Apr 21, 2016 2:53 am

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 26):
That's all well and good, but has nothing to do with revisionist right-wing interpretations of Andrew Jackson's legacy. It is not PC to say that he was a terrible human being, and the Indian Removal Act would never pass Constitutional muster today.

Yeah I agree with fr8mech that "political correctness" often goes too far and that no one has "the right to not be offended" but I think he has subjected the thread to just a teensy bit of scope-creep.  

Then again, there is such a consensus here that Jackson was a racist, genocidal jagoff that there might not be much on this thread to discuss.   
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fr8mech
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RE: Tubman To Replace Jackson On $20 (US) Bill

Thu Apr 21, 2016 2:54 am

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 26):
That's all well and good, but has nothing to do with revisionist right-wing interpretations of Andrew Jackson's legacy. It is not PC to say that he was a terrible human being, and the Indian Removal Act would never pass Constitutional muster toda

Ok...where have I disagreed with you on any of those points? I guess you can say that

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 26):
he was a terrible human being

is an opinion and not fact, but I don't think I have or would disagree with you, based on my limited reading of him.

Not sure what your point is here.

Quoting Airstud (Reply 27):
but I think he has subjected the thread to just a teensy bit of scope-creep

True, but I'm just responding to others. I did not start the PC argument. In fact, I made the claim that I did not feel this was a PC-based decision. Then made a broad statement about PC'dness in general.

[Edited 2016-04-20 19:55:38]

[Edited 2016-04-20 19:56:36]
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RE: Tubman To Replace Jackson On $20 (US) Bill

Thu Apr 21, 2016 3:01 am

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 16):
I can not make someone feel any more or less human with my speech; that power lies strictly with the person being spoken about.

That statement is at best psychologically naive and at worst nasty and callous. Take for example, an emotionally/verbally abused wife. While, on some academic level you could argue that she is letting herself be degraded if she stays in the marriage, to say her husband is doing nothing wrong seems ridiculous to me. He is still being abusive. And if she sticks around because she has low self esteem, maybe she has low self esteem because of words she heard as a child. Which brings us to a more central example: pretty much every psych experiment shows that words and even body language/assumptions etc (from parents, peers, teachers) have massive effects on childhood development, self-esteem, and identity (from school performance issues to eating disorders to all kinds of other areas).

If PC addresses and raises these issues it is a good thing.

Quoting Acheron (Reply 23):
From personal experience, those who complain the most about PC, are people who are pissed about not being able to be assholes and bigots towards others without being called out on their shit.

        
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RE: Tubman To Replace Jackson On $20 (US) Bill

Thu Apr 21, 2016 3:10 am

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 28):
Not sure what your point is here

The point is impact of PC on society is not germane to a discussion of disgracing Andrew Jackson by removing him from our currency.
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RE: Tubman To Replace Jackson On $20 (US) Bill

Thu Apr 21, 2016 3:28 am

Good for Harriet. First of all, Jackson isn't going away completely (he'll be on the back), and it's about time we stopped making the Dollar a presidents-only club. There's so many other people who did great things for this country to restrict it like that. I'm wholeheartedly against affirmative action because I believe in choosing people based on merit alone, but this is a different situation, I think. Also, I think people on both sides are making a much bigger deal of this than they need to. Seriously... it's still the same $20 bill that will buy you the same lapdance or crappy dinner at Applebees no matter who's printed on the front.

[Edited 2016-04-20 20:37:24]
 
Airstud
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RE: Tubman To Replace Jackson On $20 (US) Bill

Thu Apr 21, 2016 3:43 am

Quoting N415XJ (Reply 31):
it's about time we stopped making the Dollar a presidents-only club

Er, it never has been. Neither Alexander Hamilton (sawbuck) nor Benjamin Franklin (C-note, 50¢ piece) were ever President.

(Neither were Susan B. Anthony or Sacagawea  )
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RE: Tubman To Replace Jackson On $20 (US) Bill

Thu Apr 21, 2016 4:08 am

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 16):
There may not have been a need to replace Jackson, but there seemed to be a desire to.

Thing is, unless I'm completely off-base, it certainly appears that this desire only seemed to develop around the time there were demands for a woman to appear on U.S. paper currency.

Quoting Mir (Reply 20):
Is a desire to put a woman on a banknote really in deference to political correctness?

Isn't it, though? While Jackson is certainly convenient (and a reasonable choice) given his background, regardless there was a movement to get a woman - any woman - on a U.S. banknote. Period. It was just a matter of who would be replaced, and what woman would replace that individual.

When you're making a point of specifically recognizing someone on a banknote due to their gender - that being the primary reason for the change - then yes, it's definitely in deference to political correctness.
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RE: Tubman To Replace Jackson On $20 (US) Bill

Thu Apr 21, 2016 4:12 am

Quoting n229nw (Reply 29):
While, on some academic level you could argue that she is letting herself be degraded if she stays in the marriage,

She is. And, agreed, that can be a function of a lot of things, but in the end, she is responsible for her actions. How many times have we heard from the domestic abuse advocates, of which I am one, that it is up to the woman to take the first step and leave?

Quoting n229nw (Reply 29):
to say her husband is doing nothing wrong seems ridiculous to me.

I never said that what the husband, in your example, is doing is wrong...nor, have I claimed that someone can not be hurtful with their words and/or actions. My claim is that WE are responsible for OUR reactions TO what people say and do TO us.

We can not control what others do to us, we can only control our reaction to those things.

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 30):
The point is impact of PC on society is not germane to a discussion of disgracing Andrew Jackson by removing him from our currency.

So, you think he's being disgraced? He's being replaced, or actually, moved. Was Franklin disgraced when he was replaced by Kennedy?

Quoting N415XJ (Reply 31):
Dollar a presidents-only club.

It's not and hasn't been, unless Benjamin Franklin and Alexander Hamilton were once presidents and I missed it.
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RE: Tubman To Replace Jackson On $20 (US) Bill

Thu Apr 21, 2016 4:47 am

Quoting Acheron (Reply 23):
From personal experience, those who complain the most about PC, are people who are pissed about not being able to be assholes and bigots towards others without being called out on their shit.

Is painting with a broad brush considered PC?

Quoting coolian2 (Reply 25):
I'd like to point out in this case I'm not referring to fr8mech, and I'm aware I'm painting with a very broad brush. But it's a trend I've noticed.

I'm quite sure that what you stated does indeed happen.

Let me point out that I also see a trend when people start accusing the "anti-PC" person of being a racist and a bigot, when, in general, he or she hasn't espoused anything remotely close to those views.

Contrary to frequently-stated belief (as evidenced in this thread), being critical of the full extent of political correctness does not automatically make one racist or bigoted.
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seb146
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RE: Tubman To Replace Jackson On $20 (US) Bill

Thu Apr 21, 2016 4:59 am

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 24):
PC is the attempt to stifle free speech in some misguided effort to "equalize" everyone's outcomes and feelings

oh, for the love of....

You can say whatever you want. No one is stopping you. However, when you complain that someone else gets offended by what you say, that is just nuts.

It seems to me that the anti-PC crowd really goes nuts when someone says "that word you called me is offensive and here is why....." So we don't know our place and we want equality and for narrow minded people to know we are demanding equality. Don't like it? Get over it.

Again, you can say whatever you want. No one is stopping you. Just don't start whining when people give you a history lesson.

What any of that has to do with what a bad person Jackson was, I have no idea....
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Airstud
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RE: Tubman To Replace Jackson On $20 (US) Bill

Thu Apr 21, 2016 5:03 am

Quoting seb146 (Reply 36):
What any of that has to do with what a bad person Jackson was, I have no idea....

Scope. Creep...



(See.)
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RE: Tubman To Replace Jackson On $20 (US) Bill

Thu Apr 21, 2016 5:57 am

It's good and nobody should object in the slightest - He was complete scum but he was President because he represented exactly how the people of the time thought. You'd have to be a complete redneck idiot to deny that it is certainly overdue (for gender and ethnic reasons), but let's not make it more than what it is.
It's a feel good token gesture during voting season designed for the guilty white liberals to use as a distraction in an attempt about themselves rather than actually deal with the real issues still happening on a daily basis in the USA. They would be better to focus their energy by trying to ensure legislature matches societal progress (which of course it doesn't currently). Revisionist history if ever I saw it . Just because we hide our horrible histories from public display doesn't mean than they never happened or that we have changed anything in our societies that greatly changes the status quo. This does nothing to change the inherent injustices that Black Americans still face.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 36):
However, when you complain that someone else gets

People on both sides of the equation need to develop thicker skin rather than feign offence about unimportant distractions and try to ban everything that isn't specifically to their own liking. The more the so-called PC brigade harp on about stuff that doesn't matter the more they are responsible when the dumbasses unite against them in retaliation.
'PC' Extremism breeds 'Anti PC' Extremists. What some redneck dumb-fuck thinks is irrelevant if it does not influence laws and policies to discriminate. The moment that it crosses into politics is the moment we should all object - until then it is just opinion and words. Words mean nothing in and of themselves.
.
Flown to 128 Airports in 48 Countries on 81 Operators. Visited 56 Countries and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
seb146
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RE: Tubman To Replace Jackson On $20 (US) Bill

Thu Apr 21, 2016 6:04 am

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 38):
Words mean nothing in and of themselves.

Better to be though of a fool than open your mouth and remove all doubt. Isn't that how the saying goes?
You say Merry Christmas, I say All Holidays Matter
 
fr8mech
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RE: Tubman To Replace Jackson On $20 (US) Bill

Thu Apr 21, 2016 6:20 am

Quoting Airstud (Reply 37):
Scope. Creep...

Agreed, and I'll accept some responsibility for the creeping, and will no longer participate in the discussion as it pertains to PC.

Now, if you think Andrew Jackson was dumped because of his past and reputation, I think you're wrong. The bill was changed because it was time to change it. As you'll recall (and, I can't find the damn thing), we had a thread concerning this when it popped up last year. The general consensus on A-Net was that the Hamilton should remain on the $10, due to his connection to The Treasury, while Jackson was a strange choice for any currency.

According to what I've read, this appears to be a general trend in the redesign of our currency. Tubman will be on the front of the 20, Jackson on the back, along with The White House.

Apparently, the 10 will retain Hamilton on the front and the reverse will feature the Treasury with prominent figures in the suffrage movement.

The 5 will retain Lincoln on the front, with the reverse being redesigned, centered on the Memorial, but adding people that had some connection to the Memorial. One person I object being added to the currency is Marian Anderson. I had to look her up. I'm opposed to entertainers, regardless of their prominence in history, being placed on currency.


Quoting Mir (Reply 20):
I'd have gone with Eleanor Roosevelt,

Seems that she will be featured on the reverse of the 5. Of course, she's there because of Marian Anderson, or correctly, Marian Anderson is there because of Roosevelt. So, in context, I can live with Anderson.

[Edited 2016-04-20 23:22:45]
When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
 
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Aesma
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RE: Tubman To Replace Jackson On $20 (US) Bill

Thu Apr 21, 2016 7:02 am

2030 should be the year when 99,99% of the bills will have been replaced or something like that.

It doesn't take long to make a new bill, the Euro has been getting new bills since a couple years ago, merely 10 years after the original ones. I already see more new 5 and 10 notes than old ones.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
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flyingturtle
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RE: Tubman To Replace Jackson On $20 (US) Bill

Thu Apr 21, 2016 10:49 am

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 8):
Quoting Tugger (Reply 9):

That's crazy. Let's start a little conspiracy theory around this fact.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 10):
Political correctness has been, is and always will be, a cancer on free speech.

Thou shalt always be polite in your discourse, and wisely decide of you want to offend someone. I really like the words I've read somewhere - it really nails it: "You have the right to free speech. But you do not have the right to consequence-free speech."


David
Keeping calm is terrorism against those who want to live in fear.
 
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Adipasquale
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RE: Tubman To Replace Jackson On $20 (US) Bill

Thu Apr 21, 2016 1:54 pm

I hate the term PC because nobody can seem to understand what it means. The way I look at it is "don't say stupid s**t." That doesn't mean "don't say something that might make someone mad because it doesn't conform perfectly to their worldview."

With that said, it is much better IMHO to see Jackson being replaced (moved to the back, really) than Hamilton. Jackson was a more nuanced man than many paint him as, but that still does not discount the fact that he did some pretty horrendous things. I find it kind of ironic that Tubman, a black abolitionist will be on the front, while Jackson, a slaveholder will be on the back. I don't view the move to incorporate women in US currency on PCness, but on a recognition that women have been excluded, and treated as second class citizens (they couldn't even vote until less than 100 years ago!) in the past. Becoming more enlightened and accepting is not PC, it's just the right thing to do.

What I am seeing says the designs will be unveiled by 2020 (100th anniversary of women's suffrage), with entry into circulation within the next couple of years after that. Don't see why it takes so long, but I'm guessing its in part because this is the government we're talking about, and in part because they are still designing new security measures.

I wonder if the new bills will be made of plastic, as Canadian, some denominations of Mexican, and many other countries currency now is. I understand it is much more durable than paper, but am not sure about the security advantages or drawbacks.
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flyingturtle
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RE: Tubman To Replace Jackson On $20 (US) Bill

Thu Apr 21, 2016 2:46 pm

We Swiss had Auguste Forel on the 1000 CHF note until 2000. As a director of the psychiatric clinic of ZRH, he undertook the first castrations and sterilizations for social reasons in Europe. He was heavily sympathizing with the German racists that were on the rise there.

Yay, political correctness. If you want to prevent people leaving a discourse, one better has to tone down his frank and heartfelt expressions. I agree that PC is a term that is often mis-applied.

The famous nipple flash at the Superb Owl event was overdriven PC because the media themselves were more offended by the female sexual body part than the actual consumers of said media. Until now, I have not heard anybody complain about seeing a naked body here or there.


And now for something completely different - the Pythons on prejudices:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19fcN3VaXs4

...and, of course: Never be rude to an Arab, a Spik, or a Wop, or a Kraut...

David
Keeping calm is terrorism against those who want to live in fear.
 
Flighty
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RE: Tubman To Replace Jackson On $20 (US) Bill

Thu Apr 21, 2016 2:48 pm

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 21):
And if you're going to claim the outcome since 1830 has been positive for the country, you're on the wrong side of history.

Not sure what you are talking about. Should California not be a part of the USA? How about Texas? Which history are we really idealizing?



In terms of Tubman, IIRC great person, but also someone who was in poverty, and a criminal in her time.

Will the future bills include people in poverty today, who are targeted by law enforcement as criminals?

I saw bills not as heroes of today, but men who were doing well and had appealing portraits. Jackson may be considered a bad person today but he had a dashing portrait.

It is reasonably likely that President Obama will be considered a bad person in time. Merely because tastes change. The contemporary moral system of 2016 will, in 2046, be seen as quaint and irrelevant. We should not pretend that morality is absolute because it almost never is. Today's belief system can easily be tomorrow's theocratic revolutionary dictatorship. It's happened before and can happen almost without warning.
 
Ken777
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RE: Tubman To Replace Jackson On $20 (US) Bill

Thu Apr 21, 2016 2:55 pm

Although I'm not too concerned about the change (even though I felt she would be better on the $2 Bill) I do believe that there will be a lot of photoshopping work needed - just like with Jackson. Pictures I have seen were not very complimentary, but then Jackson was pretty ugly as well.
 
Mir
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RE: Tubman To Replace Jackson On $20 (US) Bill

Thu Apr 21, 2016 3:12 pm

Quoting Flighty (Reply 45):
In terms of Tubman, IIRC great person, but also someone who was in poverty, and a criminal in her time.

Will the future bills include people in poverty today, who are targeted by law enforcement as criminals?

She's a criminal because she stole people's property: their slaves. If you're going to view slavery as morally wrong, I don't see how you can hold her actions against her. Washington was a criminal in his day too - the British were really after that guy. Should we take him off our currency as well?

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 46):
I do believe that there will be a lot of photoshopping work needed - just like with Jackson. Pictures I have seen were not very complimentary, but then Jackson was pretty ugly as well.

Really? We're caring about how people whose accomplishments shaped the course of the nation's history looked now?

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
Flighty
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RE: Tubman To Replace Jackson On $20 (US) Bill

Thu Apr 21, 2016 3:23 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 47):
Washington was a criminal in his day too - the British were really after that guy. Should we take him off our currency as well?

Haha too right. Tubman was a great person I think, but a totally different category -- not of race or gender but of place in society. Consider Edward Snowden. He's a white man but we would not expect him to be on a $20 bill. At least there would be a tone of real irony and rebellion in such an act. That's what is interesting to me here. It is a rebuke to the country really. Can we start to view her purely as a hero, and to take pride in that? Hope so.

George Washington, (and a. LIncoln), without a doubt, were violent men who killed their countrymen by the tens of thousands. Worthwhile to keep it in mind, especially in the present day. Is that how we view such people today?
 
N415XJ
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RE: Tubman To Replace Jackson On $20 (US) Bill

Thu Apr 21, 2016 3:34 pm

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 34):
It's not and hasn't been, unless Benjamin Franklin and Alexander Hamilton were once presidents and I missed it.
Quoting Airstud (Reply 32):

Er, it never has been. Neither Alexander Hamilton (sawbuck) nor Benjamin Franklin (C-note, 50¢ piece) were ever President.

Oops, you two are right. My mistake! Forgot all about Hamilton, and I guess I don't handle Benjamins too often so I forgot about him as well  

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