Biggest Sporting "chokes" In History

kiwiinoz · Wed Sep 25, 2013 3:03 am

So I went to San Fran to watch my beloved Team New Zealand challenge for the America's Cup. Was a great trip and I left very confident with the kiwis leading the series 8-1, needing only one more race to win the cup. They were actually about to win it in the very next race, leading by some margin, with the finish line in sight, only to have the race cancelled due to running over the time limit, (wasn't much wind)

Well, Oracle Team USA have reeled them in since then and the score is now 8 all. Thanks to some great boat development, and better sailing, the American's now have a significant speed advantage, and all of the momentum. It certainly looks as though they will go on to successfuly defend the cup tonight, (weather permitting)

It seemed like an unassailable position for the kiwis but is likely to go down as one of the greatest "chokes" in professional/international sporting history. I can think of a couple of others:

Jana Navotna in the Wimbledon final, (I think against Stefi Graf)
Greg Norman in the British Open when he blew a 6 shot lead on the final day, (I think Faldo got the win in the end)

Any other contenders?

NZ107 · Wed Sep 25, 2013 3:11 am

SMH had an article on this yesterday: http://www.smh.com.au/sport/eight-wi...st-chokes-20130924-2ub45.html#poll

kiwiinoz · Wed Sep 25, 2013 3:30 am

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 1):
SMH had an article on this yesterday: http://www.smh.com.au/sport/eight-wi...#poll

Nice list, I see my 2 were on there. For the All Blacks, I would only rate the 1999 loss as a choke on the same scale as some of those others

allrite · Wed Sep 25, 2013 3:36 am

Can't they just fight this one out in the courts?

Tugger · Wed Sep 25, 2013 3:54 am

Wait... no one is mentioning:
The 2004 Yanks

or the 2007 Patriots

Tugg

vikkyvik · Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:31 am

Quoting tugger (Reply 4):
The 2004 Yanks

Well, I was going to, but you beat me to it. As a Bostonian, that was quite sweet.

Of course, then there's....

Quoting tugger (Reply 4):
or the 2007 Patriots

B777LRF · Wed Sep 25, 2013 5:43 am

Felippe Massa crossing the line in Sao Paulo as world champion, only to loose the title a few seconds later when Hamilton did a fantastic overtake in the last corner and took the title.

Bongodog1964 · Wed Sep 25, 2013 9:02 am

Jean van de Velde at the 1999 Open Golf, took a 3 stroke lead into the final hole and blew it as he lost control of his senses, instead of two iron shots and two or even three putts, he launched a driver into the rough, then bounced off a stand into more rough, then a loose shot into the burn. At at one point he contemplated playing the ball from the burn to the extent of taking his shoes and socks off, thought better of it and finally scored a double bogey 6. This lead to a play off which he duly lost.

I'm not sure if the present America's cup could count as a NZ "choke" if they lose. Its not so much what they have done as the abysmal tactics used by team Oracle in the early stages. Since they sacked their tactician and replaced him with Ben Ainslie they have stepped up a few gears to the point where they look close to unbeatable.

[Edited 2013-09-25 02:06:25]

qfflyer · Wed Sep 25, 2013 10:39 am

Quoting kiwiinoz (Thread starter):
It seemed like an unassailable position for the kiwis but is likely to go down as one of the greatest "chokes" in professional/international sporting history

I know what you mean, and being a kiwi sailor, I am sad about this situation, but to say they are choking really takes away from the impressive effort and turnaround by Oracle - which I think should be more newsworthy...

wingman · Wed Sep 25, 2013 5:05 pm

It's been quite something to watch this unfold over the past three days. I guess downtown will go beserk if the Aussies pull it off. Or should we credit Ainsle,the Brit replacement, or the Kiwi traitor at the helm, the Aussie crew??...perhaps even the lone yank aboard! In the end I guess the yank with the moneybags will soak up most of the glory if Oracle does win today.

I'm pretty happy this event turned out for the best for the city of SF. The criticism throughout the past two years has been scathing but to be fair this is a special kind of thing to put on and difficult under the circumstances considering how busy the Bay is to maritime traffic. All I can say is that watching sail boats fly past speedboats at 50 mph is pretty friggin cool. I hope the design survives and this is how things will be going forward.

romeobravo · Wed Sep 25, 2013 5:17 pm

AC Milan losing the Champions League final in spite of being 3-0 up at half time must be up there.

The last Ryder Cup?

L-188 · Wed Sep 25, 2013 5:23 pm

EVen though it wasn't the choke that made it infamous, we need to put the HeidiBowl on this list.

Mir · Wed Sep 25, 2013 5:43 pm

Quoting B777LRF (Reply 6):
Felippe Massa crossing the line in Sao Paulo as world champion, only to loose the title a few seconds later when Hamilton did a fantastic overtake in the last corner and took the title.

I don't think you can consider that a choke. Massa won that race - he did exactly what he needed to do, he just got beat.

Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 5):
Of course, then there's....

Quoting tugger (Reply 4):
or the 2007 Patriots

And the 2011 Red Sox.

-Mir

FlyingSicilian · Wed Sep 25, 2013 6:15 pm

Well my Oilers had the biggest NFL one in 1992 being up 35-3 early in the third quarter, but Buffalo won 41-38 in overtime.

Though the Bills choked in four straight Superbowls....

airportugal310 · Wed Sep 25, 2013 6:17 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 12):
And the 2011 Red Sox.

It's a "choke" if you are on the verge of winning and then blow it...when you are losing the whole time, it doesn't really count.

But nice usual dig against the Sox

Mir · Wed Sep 25, 2013 6:26 pm

Quoting airportugal310 (Reply 14):
It's a "choke" if you are on the verge of winning and then blow it...when you are losing the whole time, it doesn't really count.

And the Red Sox were on the verge of making the playoffs - nine games up in September and with a 99.6% chance of making the playoffs. They didn't make the playoffs. They were on the verge of at least getting a one-game playoff with the Rays, leading with their closer on the mound in the 9th. They lost that game.

That's a choke, any way you cut it.

-Mir

B777LRF · Wed Sep 25, 2013 6:56 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 12):
I don't think you can consider that a choke. Massa won that race - he did exactly what he needed to do, he just got beat.

Fair enough, but these fellas sure look like they're choking on something

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vNHQtHkwe4

My I then suggest Bayern M losing to Man U in the 1999 Champions League final? Up 1-0 until overtime, they lost 1-2 by way of a football magic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-XsRJU-LGo

srbmod · Wed Sep 25, 2013 7:53 pm

Quoting FlyingSicilian (Reply 13):
Well my Oilers had the biggest NFL one in 1992 being up 35-3 early in the third quarter, but Buffalo won 41-38 in overtime.

That was the craziest NFL game ever.

Newcastle gifting the 1996 Premier League title to Man U for me is up there as a choke. Newcastle had a 10 point lead over Man U at Christmas and by early January had stretched it to a 12 point lead. Then Newcastle went through a run of 8 matches between late February and early April in which they lost 5, won 2 and drew 1. They finished the season in second place, four points behind Man U (They made a decent run the following season, but with Alan Shearer missing some matches due to injury, they couldn't seal the deal and had to settle for second place again.).

Revelation · Wed Sep 25, 2013 7:58 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 12):
And the 2011 Red Sox.

Beer and chicken, anyone?

We paid penance by having a year of Bobby Valentine as manager.

Quoting airportugal310 (Reply 14):
It's a "choke" if you are on the verge of winning and then blow it...when you are losing the whole time, it doesn't really count.

Huh? Wiki sez "it marked the first time in baseball history that a 9 game lead had been blown in September, becoming the worst collapse in baseball history."

It was an epic choke, and I say that as a Red Sox fan since the 70s.

Quoting airportugal310 (Reply 14):
But nice usual dig against the Sox

Failures only make your victories that much sweeter.

The Red Sox have had some historic chokes, but 2004 erased them all as far as I'm concerned.

The one that was the most painful to me was:

Quote:

In 1978, they squandered all of a nine-game lead they had on Aug. 13, then rebounded to win their last eight games and force a one-game playoff against the Yankees. Boston led that game, 2-0, but the light-hitting Dent hit a three-run homer in a four-run seventh and New York won 5-4.

Back then I listened to every game (I was in high school so had the time) and the way that season ended was brutal.

Some other Sox chokes:

Quote:

In 1986, the Red Sox were one strike away from a World Series championship after taking a 5-3 lead in the 10th inning of Game 6 against the Mets. But New York won 6-5 when Mookie Wilson’s grounder went through first baseman Buckner’s legs, allowing the winning run to score. Then, the Mets won Game 7.

Another crushing blow came in 2003 in Game 7 of the AL championship series when another Yankee infielder not known for his power, Aaron Boone, hit Tim Wakefield’s first pitch in the 11th inning for a series-winning homer.

All from the article: http://boston.cbslocal.com/2011/09/29/red-sox-worst-choke-ever/

GrahamHill · Wed Sep 25, 2013 8:39 pm

As a Habs fan, the 2008 game vs NYR was quite epic. The Rangers were leading 5-0 early in the 2nd period and lost the game 6-5.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zACGht3qfXA

Quoting RomeoBravo (Reply 10):

AC Milan losing the Champions League final in spite of being 3-0 up at half time must be up there.

That's my most memorable one. Also because I was surrounded by Liverpool supporters

jetblueguy22 · Wed Sep 25, 2013 8:48 pm

Quoting tugger (Reply 4):
Wait... no one is mentioning:
The 2004 Yanks

Quoting tugger (Reply 4):
or the 2007 Patriots

You're breaking my heart here. My two teams in the same post. I may have to go lay down

Quoting Mir (Reply 12):
And the 2011 Red Sox.

Now we're talking!

How about the Pittsburgh Penguins last year?. Swept by the Bruins in 4 games. They should have smoked them. I'm not a fan of either team. But my roommate is a huge Pens fan. A few things were broken in the apartment that night

.
Pat

ZKSUJ · Wed Sep 25, 2013 9:07 pm

Quoting kiwiinoz (Reply 2):
Nice list, I see my 2 were on there. For the All Blacks, I would only rate the 1999 loss as a choke on the same scale as some of those others

Agree, 1999 hurt the most. 03 and 07 was less of a surprise. Only a couple of players in 1999 NZ team kept level headed and played brilliantly, Mr Jonah Lomu was one of them

vikkyvik · Wed Sep 25, 2013 9:23 pm

Quoting airportugal310 (Reply 14):
It's a "choke" if you are on the verge of winning and then blow it...when you are losing the whole time, it doesn't really count.

Dude, where were you that season? The Red Sox were doing great, and then had a huge collapse at the end.

The only reason I wouldn't rate it as one of the greatest chokes is that it wasn't in the playoffs.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 18):
We paid penance by having a year of Bobby Valentine as manager.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 18):
Another crushing blow came in 2003 in Game 7 of the AL championship series when another Yankee infielder not known for his power, Aaron Boone, hit Tim Wakefield’s first pitch in the 11th inning for a series-winning homer.

Ouch. I remember that. That's why you don't have Tim Wakefield close a game.

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 20):
You're breaking my heart here. My two teams in the same post. I may have to go lay down

Wait. You're a Yankees and Patriots fan???!!!

GrahamHill · Wed Sep 25, 2013 9:30 pm

Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 22):
Wait. You're a Yankees and Patriots fan???!!!

And why not? Some are not bothered by the strong rivalry between the two cities. Look at me: as a Habs fan, I do religiously hate the Bruins, but I'm a fan of the Pats and the Celtics (whom I went to see last year).

[Edited 2013-09-25 14:33:09]

[Edited 2013-09-25 14:38:55]

rfields5421 · Wed Sep 25, 2013 11:00 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 18):
We paid penance by having a year of Bobby Valentine as manager.

There are still many people in Dallas who think he was the best manager the Rangers ever had.

-----------------------------------------

The one I always remember is the 1970 University of Arkansas at University of Texas.

After losing the national championship the year before by one point on a controversial refree call - in-front of the President and the national TV audience - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1969_Texas_vs._Arkansas_football_game

the Razorbacks went to Austin in 1970 with a 9-1 record looking for revenge.

Texas 42 - Arkansas 7

vikkyvik · Wed Sep 25, 2013 11:22 pm

Quoting GrahamHill (Reply 23):
And why not? Some are not bothered by the strong rivalry between the two cities.

Count me in as one of those who are not bothered by it.

But I can still joke about it....

kiwiinoz · Thu Sep 26, 2013 12:55 am

Well done Oracle Team USA, they completed the comeback. Hard to describe it as a choke but it certainly reads that way for Team NZ

QANTAS077 · Thu Sep 26, 2013 1:02 am

Team USA has only one American member onboard from what I understand...

kiwiinoz · Thu Sep 26, 2013 1:26 am

Quoting qantas077 (Reply 27):
Team USA has only one American member onboard from what I understand...

That's correct, and the boat was largely built in NZ. But the money was American.....and that counts for a lot!

Love the Australian papers today. Zero coverage over the 3 month event, up until last week, and reading them this morning, yuo could be forgiven for thinking that Australia had won tyhe America's Cup!!

luckyone · Thu Sep 26, 2013 1:56 am

Quoting kiwiinoz (Thread starter):
Jana Navotna in the Wimbledon final, (I think against Stefi Graf)

Steffi Graf it was. Novotna was up 4-1 and had points for a 5-1 lead in the final set--she barely won another point. I've seen that match and she indeed, fell apart as if at the flip of a switch. At 40-30 she hit a second serve that almost clipped the baseline.

Other massive tennis meltdowns:

1984 Roland Garros Final: McEnroe vs. Lendl. Mac won the first two sets, had the match on his racquet...and started to whine about a camera clicking. The Best Worst Headcase in tennis.

2002 Australian Open Women's Singles final: Jennifer Capriati vs. Martina Hingis. A very dramatic patch but a very poor match from a tennis quality standpoint, except for about ten minutes at the end of the second set. Hingis had four match points in the second set. She blew them all. Capriati was playing horribly and had a major temper tantrum before regaining her calm, and then just outlasted Hingis as she ran out of gas. Capriati herself went on to choke in the US Open semifinals, twice, in 2003 and 2004.

2004 Roland Garros Final Guillermo Coria vs. Gaston Gaudio: In what was a real snooze-fest of a match that seemed to last all friggin day (it went five sets between two guys who aren't exactly known for power) Coria had a match point, and let a two-set to love lead go by the wayside. He had lost two matches on clay that year and was everybody's favorite to win Roland Garros. We've barely seen him since.

kiwiinoz · Thu Sep 26, 2013 2:22 am

Quoting luckyone (Reply 29):
Steffi Graf it was. Novotna was up 4-1 and had points for a 5-1 lead in the final set--she barely won another point. I've seen that match and she indeed, fell apart as if at the flip of a switch. At 40-30 she hit a second serve that almost clipped the baseline.

I think the reason this game pretty much tops the list is that you could almost see her just collapse mentally, culminating in the shattered individual she was at the prize presentation. Even Graf seemed like she regretted winning.

jetblueguy22 · Thu Sep 26, 2013 4:44 am

Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 22):
Wait. You're a Yankees and Patriots fan???!!!

I'm from Connecticut so it at least makes a little sense. My brother is just the opposite. Sox and Giant fan.
Pat

casinterest · Thu Sep 26, 2013 4:58 am

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 31):
I'm from Connecticut so it at least makes a little sense. My brother is just the opposite. Sox and Giant fan.
Pat

Ahh we can add Buckner to the list from the 86 Sox

afterburner33 · Thu Sep 26, 2013 10:41 am

I feel incredibly disappointed for Team New Zealand, but despite some of the poorer aspects of the NZ media referring to this as a choke, I don't know if you can call it that. To me a choke implies that they threw it away or did something to cause the loss. However in this case the opposition just got better over a length of time - as was mentioned on commentary yesterday 'there's no substitute for raw boat speed'. Having two races abandoned when leading (one within sight of the finish line) also didn't help.

Quoting wingman (Reply 9):
I'm pretty happy this event turned out for the best for the city of SF. The criticism throughout the past two years has been scathing but to be fair this is a special kind of thing to put on and difficult under the circumstances considering how busy the Bay is to maritime traffic. All I can say is that watching sail boats fly past speedboats at 50 mph is pretty friggin cool. I hope the design survives and this is how things will be going forward.

I have to agree with this though - this series has been great. The boats were amazing, the backdrop scenery was awesome, and the racing was exciting. However I don't know if they can stick with the same boats - they're too expensive, and only having one viable challenger is not really acceptable. But then again Oracle are the holders, and can do as they see fit.

It's the same issue that Formula One has - should it be about the skills of the participants, or about technology and who has the resources to implement it best?

Revelation · Thu Sep 26, 2013 12:12 pm

Quoting afterburner33 (Reply 33):

It's the same issue that Formula One has - should it be about the skills of the participants, or about technology and who has the resources to implement it best?

I think over time most sports go towards favoring the human competition, not the machine competition.

One reason I don't watch NASCAR is so much talk is about tires. As important and useful as tires are, they're pretty bloody boring things to talk about.

rfields5421 · Thu Sep 26, 2013 2:10 pm

Humans have the ability to lose with even the best technology. Winners have to be able to master the technology, and to overcome their opponents mentally and physically.

Though of course if sent to the match with inferior technology, even the best cannot win.

Every sport has a technology component. It is part of every game. Just more impressive in some.

KBOS · Thu Sep 26, 2013 8:42 pm

Quoting casinterest (Reply 32):
Ahh we can add Buckner to the list from the 86 Sox

Yeah, thanks for that one.......

AM744 · Thu Sep 26, 2013 8:42 pm

Quoting airportugal310 (Reply 14):
It's a "choke" if you are on the verge of winning and then blow it...when you are losing the whole time, it doesn't really count.

Agreed. I have to put forward this one:

Denver Broncos vs Baltimore Ravens last season playoffs.

cargolex · Thu Sep 26, 2013 9:53 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 18):
In 1986, the Red Sox were one strike away from a World Series championship after taking a 5-3 lead in the 10th inning of Game 6 against the Mets. But New York won 6-5 when Mookie Wilson’s grounder went through first baseman Buckner’s legs, allowing the winning run to score. Then, the Mets won Game 7.

I am not a Red Sox fan. I am a Yankee fan. I am from the Bronx. I lived there for most of my life. The first baseball game I ever went to was at Yankee Stadium (the real Yankee stadium, not the current one), the first time I served on Jury duty it was at the county courthouse two blocks from Yankee Stadium. I remember when the Yankees were Don Mattingly's team and the World Series visits we see every few years from them were a pipe dream. I do not like the Red Sox.

So believe me when I say that poor old Bill Buckner deserves some slack. That one moment should not be the definition of his career. Miscues happen, and it's a shame that his career is overshadowed by that one moment.

KBOS · Fri Sep 27, 2013 12:01 am

Quoting Cargolex (Reply 38):
I am not a Red Sox fan. I am a Yankee fan. I am from the Bronx. I lived there for most of my life. The first baseball game I ever went to was at Yankee Stadium (the real Yankee stadium, not the current one), the first time I served on Jury duty it was at the county courthouse two blocks from Yankee Stadium. I remember when the Yankees were Don Mattingly's team and the World Series visits we see every few years from them were a pipe dream. I do not like the Red Sox.

So believe me when I say that poor old Bill Buckner deserves some slack. That one moment should not be the definition of his career. Miscues happen, and it's a shame that his career is overshadowed by that one moment.

It was not what cost them the game either, it only tied it. The wild pitch that was called a passed ball was far more a factor in the loss. Buckner has always gotten a bum rap

ltbewr · Fri Sep 27, 2013 12:49 am

One has to wonder how NZ could win the first 7 matches then blow it for all the rest and lost to the Americans. Clearly it was one of the biggest 'chokes' or collaspes in modern sports. One has to wonder if the American's cheated, or sabotage on the NZ team or just the wrong boat for the conditions while the Americans had the right one. I am quite sure the Kiwis will call for an investigation, then call for a challenge in a few years and make a huge comeback.

kiwiinoz · Fri Sep 27, 2013 2:57 am

[quote=ltbewr,reply=40]One has to wonder how NZ could win the first 7 matches then blow it for all the rest and lost to the Americans. Clearly it was one of the biggest 'chokes' or collaspes in modern sports. One has to wonder if the American's cheated, or sabotage on the NZ team or just the wrong boat for the conditions while the Americans had the right one. I am quite sure the Kiwis will call for an investigation, then call for a challenge in a few years and make a huge comeback.[/quote

It's not that hard to fathom. These boats were already on a very steep development curve, and Oracle were quite disrupted in their development just before the event. A lot of their development therefore happened during the event. Throw in some improved boat handling and tactical changes and it's possible to improve overall boat speed by 5-7%, (which is about what the improvementwas)

I doubt very much that NZ would challenge the result. There are inspectors that will already be conducting measurements on the boats to make sure they comply with the class rule. Unlikely to second guess their findings if they give the all-clear, (which they will)

NZ107 · Fri Sep 27, 2013 3:23 am

Quoting kiwiinoz (Reply 41):
I doubt very much that NZ would challenge the result.

There are currently rumours of something which may happen soon in San Francisco...

zkojq · Fri Sep 27, 2013 3:57 am

Horrible week for Team New Zealand, but they did make a lot of silly mistakes. On a couple of occasions it seemed they had forgotten the rules of match racing.

On the other hand a lot was going against Team New Zealand. I note that the only races that were cancelled/called off were ones that Team New Zealand were winning. And Team New Zealand were the only team that suffered gear breakages. All very frustrating - but I guess that's just how things are sometimes.

On the upside, although it dragged on a bit, this was the best cup in years. 2010 was a debacle and 2007 had an unfortunate lack of wind. SFO was a great host city - well done.

Quoting kiwiinoz (Reply 28):
That's correct, and the boat was largely built in NZ.

Yup, loads of kiwis working the Americas Cup. Even if you set aside the sailors, there are plenty of kiwis in the other teams who fill loads of different roles. From that perspective, I guess NZ actually has quite a bit of 'influence' over the regatta, though probably that is just professional sailing in general. Sortof like how nearly all Formula One teams are based in the UK and are run largely by brits. When they aren't busy overseas, my dad sails with a few of the shore-crew from Oracle at our yachtclub. There are a few Team New Zealanders there too.

Quoting afterburner33 (Reply 33):
However I don't know if they can stick with the same boats - they're too expensive, and only having one viable challenger is not really acceptable. But then again Oracle are the holders, and can do as they see fit.

In its current form I sadly can't see Team New Zealand competing in the next cup. This challenge costed them $120,000,000 and it is going to be very difficult to find that sort of money again. Particularly when the teams they compete against have seemingly limitless funds to draw on. They need to find a New Zealand billionaire who feels the need to fund them. IMO it wouldn't be at all surprising for Team New Zealand to switch their main sphere of activities to competing in the Volvo Ocean Race and similar events (LV Pacific Series etc) instead.

elbandgeek · Fri Sep 27, 2013 4:17 am

kiwiinoz · Fri Sep 27, 2013 5:38 am

Quoting zkojq (Reply 43):
In its current form I sadly can't see Team New Zealand competing in the next cup. This challenge costed them $120,000,000 and it is going to be very difficult to find that sort of money again.

Maybe not:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11131034

Ahh Kim Dotcom......and endless source of entertainment.....

4holer · Fri Sep 27, 2013 5:48 am

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 7):
Jean van de Velde at the 1999 Open Golf, took a 3 stroke lead into the final hole and blew it as he lost control of his senses

This defines "choke".
More than Greg Norman.
More than Novotna.
More than the 1993 Penguins. (or the 2012 version)
And more than the Bartman Cubs. (Yes, that was all Cubs and not Bartman)

Never has there been a more perfect choke.

kiwiinoz · Fri Sep 27, 2013 5:50 am

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 42):
There are currently rumours of something which may happen soon in San Francisco...

Really?? Care to share?

afterburner33 · Fri Sep 27, 2013 7:53 am

Well apparently the changes to USA 17 were verified by the America's Cup measuring committee as legal, and Team New Zealand have accepted their findings.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/yachting/n...cle.cfm?c_id=106&objectid=11130659

But then again they can do nothing else - even hinting at impropriety would be very damaging and be totally contrary to the dignity they have shown so far in what must have been a devastating defeat.

I think we just need to accept that Oracle did amazingly well in improving USA 17 over time, and we were beaten by a better boat.

Boeing717200 · Fri Sep 27, 2013 1:13 pm

Quoting afterburner33 (Reply 48):

Another thing missed in all this is the wind. It was clear in the first week that the winds were lighter and that Oracle was slower in light wind. They didn't accelerate. I sat back watching that going... What the heck? In the higher wind, it was a completely different story with that boat.

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