parapente
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New Hubble refurb' mission possible?

Wed Oct 10, 2018 12:08 pm

As no doubt most have read they have put Hubble in a passive mode whilst they work out a revised (and final?) strategy on how best to use the remaining gyroscopes.
The Hubble telescope is one of mankids greatest engineering achievements and continues to do important science.The Shuttle refurb' missions were also an incredible achievement.
Of course we know that the James Webb telescope is finally due to be launched 'soonish'.But whilst more powerful it does specialise in a slightly different area with different optimum spectra.
Obviously now and over the last decade no mission was remotely possible to Hubble.But in a couple of years things will start to change dramatically.
Could it be possible with /LS and the Lockheed Orion system to take up new gyro's etc.Also (of course) the BFS starts to come on stream a little later.
Ok neither have the Canadian grapple arm but perhaps it could be done without that.
Anyway just a thought.
 
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trpmb6
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Re: New Hubble refurb' mission possible?

Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:30 pm

I believe the main engineering concern would be docking/tethering etc without causing damage to Hubble or the capsule. I don't believe getting to Hubble's orbit would be a major issue. SpaceX could easily undertake such a mission at this point, might even have enough fuel left over to land the first stages (assuming Falcon Heavy launch).

The question is.. Do we really want to extend Hubble's mission again? You're right that James Webb will have slightly different mission statements. But are they really that far off that we want to spend millions of dollars? Perhaps this could be a good demonstrator for parking things in orbit for lunar/mars transfers for spacex/other launch systems. Then you can kind of kill two birds with one rocket.
 
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Erebus
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Re: New Hubble refurb' mission possible?

Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:34 pm

Hubble's death is inevitable. I don't believe in spending more on overhauling it but rather use the funds on coming up with a replacement that works in the same spectrum.

I hope they come up with a fix that keeps it operational until at least the JWST comes online. It is one of the best eyes in the sky for unique cosmic events (hope no nearby stars go supernova boom till then!).

While on the topic of space observatories, I always wondered if it was possible to build a powerful space telescope module attached to the ISS, that would be easily serviceable and upgraded.
 
zanl188
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Re: New Hubble refurb' mission possible?

Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:25 pm

My understanding is that ground based telescope technology has advanced considerably since Hubble was launched 28 years ago. To the point where Hubble would not make sense to build today.

If we spend the money to fix Hubble it has to do something that cannot be done cheaper another way.
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DigitalSea
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Re: New Hubble refurb' mission possible?

Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:46 pm

I wonder if they'd ever consider putting a planetary defense radar or telescope on the surface of the moon. Hopefully SPACEX's BFR turns out to be successful.
 
tommy1808
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Re: New Hubble refurb' mission possible?

Thu Oct 11, 2018 3:15 pm

zanl188 wrote:
My understanding is that ground based telescope technology has advanced considerably since Hubble was launched 28 years ago. To the point where Hubble would not make sense to build today..


Hubble can point at the same spot of the sky much longer than earth based telescopes and is effective for wavelength that don't make it even through the thin atmosphere above the Atacama dessert or Mauna Kea.
That being said, another repair mission may not be cost effective.

Best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
WIederling
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Re: New Hubble refurb' mission possible?

Sun Oct 14, 2018 12:27 pm

zanl188 wrote:
My understanding is that ground based telescope technology has advanced considerably since Hubble was launched 28 years ago. To the point where Hubble would not make sense to build today.


Most of those improvements can also be applied to a space based telescope system.
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texl1649
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Re: New Hubble refurb' mission possible?

Sun Oct 14, 2018 12:40 pm

Yes with the laser based focusing available to ground telescopes it’s basically pointless now to fix (or rather to refuel and make usable again) the main optical lenses on the Hubble. It would sorta be like refitting an Iowa class battleship again to launch cruise missiles. Not quite worth the effort.
 
brindabella
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Re: New Hubble refurb' mission possible?

Sun Oct 14, 2018 1:23 pm

texl1649 wrote:
Yes with the laser based focusing available to ground telescopes it’s basically pointless now to fix (or rather to refuel and make usable again) the main optical lenses on the Hubble. It would sorta be like refitting an Iowa class battleship again to launch cruise missiles. Not quite worth the effort.


Not really Thomas' point, IMO.

He seems to outline a permanent requirement for non-atmospheric platforms.

cheers
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checksixx
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Re: New Hubble refurb' mission possible?

Sun Oct 14, 2018 4:01 pm

Not possible. A shuttle was required for the repairs. There is nothing that exists right now that could make it happen. Especially since we went from being number 1 in space accessibility to dead last.
 
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flyingturtle
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Re: New Hubble refurb' mission possible?

Sun Oct 14, 2018 6:30 pm

The National Reconnaissance Office (NRO) donated two telescopes, which are similar to the Hubble, to NASA a few years ago.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Nati ... on_to_NASA

Purrhaps they could use them, but at the moment, there is neither planning nor funding to use them.


David
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WIederling
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Re: New Hubble refurb' mission possible?

Sun Oct 14, 2018 8:38 pm

flyingturtle wrote:
Purrhaps they could use them, but at the moment, there is neither planning nor funding to use them.


The Trumpists are working towards "space superiority". no room for science there. This is MIL.
( I don't think they will succeed. the "like air superiority" paradigm standing in the shadows here
is fake. Air superiority is achievable but a space superiority drive can lead to general access denial
via an exponential growth of space junk ( from trying to achieve superiority via destructive conflict ).
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tommy1808
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Re: New Hubble refurb' mission possible?

Sun Oct 21, 2018 5:53 am

brindabella wrote:
texl1649 wrote:
Yes with the laser based focusing available to ground telescopes it’s basically pointless now to fix (or rather to refuel and make usable again) the main optical lenses on the Hubble. It would sorta be like refitting an Iowa class battleship again to launch cruise missiles. Not quite worth the effort.


Not really Thomas' point, IMO.

He seems to outline a permanent requirement for non-atmospheric platforms.

cheers


Yup. Why it may not need to be permanent, it would be nice to be able to cover sudden events at all wavelengths.

Now that SpaceX has made launching cheaper, and I guess prices will continue to drop, being able to maintain them can be less coat efficient than say build and launch two per year with a 3 to 5 year lifespan. Plenty of telescope time to distribute.

Best regards
Thomas
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TWA772LR
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Re: New Hubble refurb' mission possible?

Sun Oct 21, 2018 6:19 am

checksixx wrote:
Not possible. A shuttle was required for the repairs. There is nothing that exists right now that could make it happen. Especially since we went from being number 1 in space accessibility to dead last.

Its gonna be a long time before someone else plays golf on the moon.
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parapente
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Re: New Hubble refurb' mission possible?

Sun Oct 21, 2018 9:32 am

Thx for all the good answers to the question (never knew about the two ex military telescopes/hardwear!).Perhaps without the 'Canadarm' device the shuttle had it really would be too dangerous.I guess we have to cross fingers and hope the 'Webb' does not get delayed further and the launch/deployment is successful-my God it is a complicated beast which worries me -loads to go wrong.
The point about the next generation of super sized ground telescopes is well made.They are still a few years from completion,but not too many.If they further refine the atmospheric distortion issue (lasers etc) then perhaps this is the way forward.Hubble has been and is a fantastic investment either way.I for one will be very sorry when it goes.
 
DarkKnight5
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Re: New Hubble refurb' mission possible?

Sun Oct 21, 2018 12:56 pm

checksixx wrote:
Not possible. A shuttle was required for the repairs. There is nothing that exists right now that could make it happen. Especially since we went from being number 1 in space accessibility to dead last.


Dead last being second, or maybe third... for the next six months...
 
salttee
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Re: New Hubble refurb' mission possible?

Wed Oct 24, 2018 4:47 pm

It looks like the Hubble is fixed and all three of the newer Gyroscopes are working.

https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/279 ... off-and-on
 
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Erebus
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Re: New Hubble refurb' mission possible?

Thu Oct 25, 2018 10:28 pm

salttee wrote:
It looks like the Hubble is fixed and all three of the newer Gyroscopes are working.

https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/279 ... off-and-on


Well, that's a good sign. Shaking it, turning it off and then on is kind of like how I fix most things too. Hope it sticks... not literally of course. :crossfingers:
 
parapente
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Re: New Hubble refurb' mission possible?

Fri Oct 26, 2018 5:07 am

That's great news.I hope it lasts way beyond Webb.Perhaps when the new gen' of super ground based 'scopes come on line.
Either way 'what a machine'!
I only asked the origonal question because it was built in a modular fashion with repairs and updates in mind ( Yup with the shuttle) and as such 'might' have got a third lease of life.I note many reports suggesting that it remains an irreplaceable scientific instrument.

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