NZ and Korea Choses P-8A

bikerthai · Mon Jun 25, 2018 2:24 pm

Since the old P-8A topic was closed, and I do not want to crash the A320 MMA topic . . .

Looks like NZ and Korea will go with the P-8A.

https://in.reuters.com/article/southkor ... NL4N1TR3IO

https://australianaviation.com.au/2018/ ... ion-nears/

bt

Mortyman · Mon Jun 25, 2018 6:15 pm

So the air forces that has or is about to get P-8's are so far the following:

* USA (122)
* UK (9)
* Australia (12-15)
* Norway (5)
* New Zealand (4)
* South Korea (na)
* India (12)

bikerthai · Mon Jun 25, 2018 6:52 pm

Mortyman wrote:
* South Korea (na)

Defense News suggest Korea is getting 6.

bt

bikerthai · Mon Jun 25, 2018 7:03 pm

Interesting insight on the pricing of the P-8A.

http://english.yonhapnews.co.kr/nationa ... 52315.html

Amid the prospect of a multiple-party contest, some observers said that the naval project should be put to an open bidder, which could help lower prices.

But a DAPA official said that the U.S. government proposed a reasonable price for the Boeing aircraft similar to that of Saab's Swordfish.

"Should we opt for an open contest, Poseidon's price could go up 10 to 28 percent per unit, which would limit the number of planes we could buy within the total budget," the official said on condition of anonymity.

Such pricing is probably because of the benefit of tagging on to the US Navy multi-year buy.

The DAPA plans to send the letter of request (LOR) for the procurement project to Washington this month. But sources said the project could be delayed should the U.S. government fail to offer the letter of offer and acceptance (LOA) through a congressional approval process by November.

Should not be a problem with the current rapprochement with the US President.

bt

Mortyman · Mon Jun 25, 2018 9:15 pm

bikerthai wrote:
Mortyman wrote:
* South Korea (na)

Defense News suggest Korea is getting 6.

bt

Not a large number for a country like South Korea ...

bikerthai · Mon Jun 25, 2018 10:19 pm

Mortyman wrote:
Not a large number for a country like South Korea ...

Sounds like they were constrained by budget.

bt

Ozair · Mon Jun 25, 2018 10:59 pm

Mortyman wrote:
bikerthai wrote:
Mortyman wrote:
* South Korea (na)

Defense News suggest Korea is getting 6.

bt

Not a large number for a country like South Korea ...

I believe the intent is the current eight P-3Cs are being upgraded and will continue to serve while the P-8 will replace the eight P-3CKs that are the oldest aircraft in the South Korean Navy ASW fleet.

wezgulf3 · Mon Jun 25, 2018 11:53 pm

Mortyman wrote:
So the air forces that has or is about to get P-8's are so far the following:

* USA (122)
* UK (9)
* Australia (12-15)
* Norway (5)
* New Zealand (4)
* South Korea (na)
* India (12)

Saudi have some in order too.

Wes...

bikerthai · Tue Jun 26, 2018 1:34 pm

wezgulf3 wrote:
Saudi have some in order too.

The Saudis told Trump they have intention to buy some P-8's. However there is nothing firm. Negotiation are on-going . . . :box:

bt

ZaphodHarkonnen · Tue Jun 26, 2018 3:52 pm

Expensive but likely a worthwile purchase for NZ. We have a hell of a lot of space to patrol and the P-8 does appear to be a very good option for large area maritime patrol. The P-3s seem to be out flying 2 of every 3 days looking for someone.

Kiwirob · Tue Jun 26, 2018 8:54 pm

But we need 5 at least, we have one of the largest SAR zones in the world, 4 won’t be enough.

Mortyman · Tue Jun 26, 2018 10:14 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
But we need 5 at least, we have one of the largest SAR zones in the world, 4 won’t be enough.

The Boeing P-8 isn't really primarely a SAR aircraft is it ?

Kiwirob · Wed Jun 27, 2018 8:16 am

That’s what the P3’s are mainly used for, along with fisheries protection.

The Aussies use there P8’s for SAR and developed the droppable inflatable life raft for them.

ZaphodHarkonnen · Wed Jun 27, 2018 8:27 am

Kiwirob wrote:
But we need 5 at least, we have one of the largest SAR zones in the world, 4 won’t be enough.

I'd agree going from 6 P-3s to 4 P-8s does worry me on availability in 10 to 20 years. One possible option will be getting some long endurance UAVs to do most of the work with the P-8 for specific things.

ZKNCI · Wed Jun 27, 2018 8:46 am

Mortyman wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
But we need 5 at least, we have one of the largest SAR zones in the world, 4 won’t be enough.

The Boeing P-8 isn't really primarely a SAR aircraft is it ?

The RNZAF's six P-3K2s are the main SAR asset in the South Pacific and SAR is their primary role alongside fisheries. So those P-8s are just going to have to get used to being thrashed in SAR ops!
Due to the lack of other SAR aircraft about, the P-3s also get used on short-range work, where the high utilisation bites, along with training. Something smaller and cheaper would be better for that, leaving the P-8s for the long-range work, but the RNZAF lacks such an aircraft. Four P-8s alone will be strained to handle the commitments 5sqn fulfills, simply because the number of tasks and their physical spread of ranges is too great.
At least the RNZAF is finally getting something, and something with the range necessary

Mortyman · Wed Jun 27, 2018 10:16 am

I thought the P-8 was primarely a ASW, ASUW and ESM Aircraft …

In Norway it's primarely the Westland Sea King / AgustaWestland AW101 that do the SAR work. Norway has the second largest coastline in the world and an Ocean area 7 times of Norway's landmass. I don't know how large the NZ ocean area is.

ZaphodHarkonnen · Wed Jun 27, 2018 10:52 am

Mortyman wrote:
I thought the P-8 was primarely a ASW, ASUW and ESM Aircraft …

In Norway it's primarely the Westland Sea King / AgustaWestland AW101 that do the SAR work. Norway has the second largest coastline in the world and an Ocean area 7 times of Norway's landmass. I don't know how large the NZ ocean area is.

The NZ SAR region is huge. Essentially imagine if the Norway had to cover all of Europe and a chunk of Africa, from Norway.

https://teara.govt.nz/en/map/13199/new- ... cue-region
https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/commen ... ransposed/

The upgraded radar and such will be very useful for SAR stuff.

Kiwirob · Wed Jun 27, 2018 12:46 pm

Mortyman wrote:
I thought the P-8 was primarely a ASW, ASUW and ESM Aircraft …

In Norway it's primarely the Westland Sea King / AgustaWestland AW101 that do the SAR work. Norway has the second largest coastline in the world and an Ocean area 7 times of Norway's landmass. I don't know how large the NZ ocean area is.

No helicopter has the range or speed to the search and rescue location that NZ needs to covers it's SAR zone. Norway has a tine SAR zone compared to NZ, plus Nprwegian choppers can also lillypad off all the platforms if necessary.

Kiwirob · Wed Jun 27, 2018 12:50 pm

ZKNCI wrote:
Mortyman wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
But we need 5 at least, we have one of the largest SAR zones in the world, 4 won’t be enough.

The Boeing P-8 isn't really primarely a SAR aircraft is it ?

The RNZAF's six P-3K2s are the main SAR asset in the South Pacific and SAR is their primary role alongside fisheries. So those P-8s are just going to have to get used to being thrashed in SAR ops!
Due to the lack of other SAR aircraft about, the P-3s also get used on short-range work, where the high utilisation bites, along with training. Something smaller and cheaper would be better for that, leaving the P-8s for the long-range work, but the RNZAF lacks such an aircraft. Four P-8s alone will be strained to handle the commitments 5sqn fulfills, simply because the number of tasks and their physical spread of ranges is too great.
At least the RNZAF is finally getting something, and something with the range necessary

Which is why I think we are buying the wrong aircraft, I think the P1 suits what we do much better than the P8, plus form what I have read they are cheaper and we could afford 5 of them for the price of 4 P8's. I also don't like the idea of being beholden to the US for anything...

Mortyman · Wed Jun 27, 2018 12:50 pm

ZaphodHarkonnen wrote:
Mortyman wrote:
I thought the P-8 was primarely a ASW, ASUW and ESM Aircraft …

In Norway it's primarely the Westland Sea King / AgustaWestland AW101 that do the SAR work. Norway has the second largest coastline in the world and an Ocean area 7 times of Norway's landmass. I don't know how large the NZ ocean area is.

The NZ SAR region is huge. Essentially imagine if the Norway had to cover all of Europe and a chunk of Africa, from Norway.

https://teara.govt.nz/en/map/13199/new- ... cue-region
https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/commen ... ransposed/

The upgraded radar and such will be very useful for SAR stuff.

Ah, OK you are looking beyond New Zealand waters. I was just comparing to Norwegian waters. If you are comparing more or less the entire South Pacific Ocean then that is obviously a much larger area.

ZaphodHarkonnen · Wed Jun 27, 2018 12:57 pm

Mortyman wrote:
ZaphodHarkonnen wrote:
Mortyman wrote:
I thought the P-8 was primarely a ASW, ASUW and ESM Aircraft …

In Norway it's primarely the Westland Sea King / AgustaWestland AW101 that do the SAR work. Norway has the second largest coastline in the world and an Ocean area 7 times of Norway's landmass. I don't know how large the NZ ocean area is.

The NZ SAR region is huge. Essentially imagine if the Norway had to cover all of Europe and a chunk of Africa, from Norway.

https://teara.govt.nz/en/map/13199/new- ... cue-region
https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/commen ... ransposed/

The upgraded radar and such will be very useful for SAR stuff.

Ah, OK you are looking beyond New Zealand waters. I was just comparing to Norwegian waters. If you are comparing more or less the entire South Pacific Ocean then that is obviously a much larger area.

By international agreements that's the space that NZ is responsible for for Search and Rescue. And the NZ EEZ is also pretty big.

Comparing to Norway again, ours is around 4.3 million km^2 compared to around 2.8 million km^2
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exclusive_economic_zone

Which is why I think we are buying the wrong aircraft, I think the P1 suits what we do much better than the P8, plus form what I have read they are cheaper and we could afford 5 of them for the price of 4 P8's. I also don't like the idea of being beholden to the US for anything...

Unfortunately a country the size of NZ will always be beholden to someone for defence stuff. Even if we went the P-1 we'd still likely have US sourced equipment on board.

Anyways, write to your MP to let them know as they have much more ability to change things than we do on a forum.

bikerthai · Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:44 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
I think the P1 suits what we do much better than the P8, plus form what I have read they are cheaper and we could afford 5 of them for the price of 4 P8's.

Is the P-1 pricing similar to the Swordfish? Korean sources say that with FMS of the P-8A in the same multiyear block buy that the US Navy is getting, the price of the P-8A is comparable to the Swordfish.

There is one benefit with the P-8A that the P-1 does not have is the HUGE product support/spares infrastructure. This infrastructure would allow the P-8A to have greater mission reliability/readiness than the current P-3's and even the P-1 (in the long run). Maybe that is why you can replace 6 P-3's with 4 P-8's. That and the speed advantage of the P-8 would allow you to cover more ground on SAR operations.

The P-8A has already proven itself in the SAR mode with the rescue of those fisherman just after 3 hrs of search.

http://www.navy.mil/submit/display.asp?story_id=104438.

bt

Ozair · Wed Jun 27, 2018 10:06 pm

ZKNCI wrote:
The RNZAF's six P-3K2s are the main SAR asset in the South Pacific and SAR is their primary role alongside fisheries. So those P-8s are just going to have to get used to being thrashed in SAR ops!
Due to the lack of other SAR aircraft about, the P-3s also get used on short-range work, where the high utilisation bites, along with training. Something smaller and cheaper would be better for that, leaving the P-8s for the long-range work, but the RNZAF lacks such an aircraft. Four P-8s alone will be strained to handle the commitments 5sqn fulfills, simply because the number of tasks and their physical spread of ranges is too great.
At least the RNZAF is finally getting something, and something with the range necessary

NZ almost needs a coast guard organisation (other than the voluntary one at present) that operate a smaller aircraft for littoral duties.

I do like the idea of supplementing the P-8s in the future with a UAV of some sort. Adding a couple of MQ4C Triton that would be operated/maintained out of NZ but controlled from Adelaide may be of benefit but probably unlikely to happen given Triton’s cost.

ThePointblank · Thu Jun 28, 2018 2:03 am

Ozair wrote:
ZKNCI wrote:
The RNZAF's six P-3K2s are the main SAR asset in the South Pacific and SAR is their primary role alongside fisheries. So those P-8s are just going to have to get used to being thrashed in SAR ops!
Due to the lack of other SAR aircraft about, the P-3s also get used on short-range work, where the high utilisation bites, along with training. Something smaller and cheaper would be better for that, leaving the P-8s for the long-range work, but the RNZAF lacks such an aircraft. Four P-8s alone will be strained to handle the commitments 5sqn fulfills, simply because the number of tasks and their physical spread of ranges is too great.
At least the RNZAF is finally getting something, and something with the range necessary

NZ almost needs a coast guard organisation (other than the voluntary one at present) that operate a smaller aircraft for littoral duties.

I do like the idea of supplementing the P-8s in the future with a UAV of some sort. Adding a couple of MQ4C Triton that would be operated/maintained out of NZ but controlled from Adelaide may be of benefit but probably unlikely to happen given Triton’s cost.

Or, get a number of C-130's and outfit them for SAR duties, like how a number of other users use the C-130.

bigbird · Thu Jun 28, 2018 1:14 pm

What is the current monthly production rate? And is there a possibility for an increase?

bikerthai · Thu Jun 28, 2018 1:40 pm

Boeing is putting out about 1 P-8A every three weeks. And yes, they do have the capacity to increase the rate. The one thing about buying the P-8A as a FMS trough the US Navy is that you can negotiate to take some of their frames (already planned under the multiyear buy), so you can get your planes earlier.

cumulushumilis · Thu Jun 28, 2018 11:39 pm

ThePointblank wrote:
Ozair wrote:
ZKNCI wrote:
The RNZAF's six P-3K2s are the main SAR asset in the South Pacific and SAR is their primary role alongside fisheries. So those P-8s are just going to have to get used to being thrashed in SAR ops!
Due to the lack of other SAR aircraft about, the P-3s also get used on short-range work, where the high utilisation bites, along with training. Something smaller and cheaper would be better for that, leaving the P-8s for the long-range work, but the RNZAF lacks such an aircraft. Four P-8s alone will be strained to handle the commitments 5sqn fulfills, simply because the number of tasks and their physical spread of ranges is too great.
At least the RNZAF is finally getting something, and something with the range necessary

NZ almost needs a coast guard organisation (other than the voluntary one at present) that operate a smaller aircraft for littoral duties.

I do like the idea of supplementing the P-8s in the future with a UAV of some sort. Adding a couple of MQ4C Triton that would be operated/maintained out of NZ but controlled from Adelaide may be of benefit but probably unlikely to happen given Triton’s cost.

Or, get a number of C-130's and outfit them for SAR duties, like how a number of other users use the C-130.

Or better yet, buy a lower cost platform like the C 295 or C-27J. C-130J are way too costly to be flying low and slow for dedicated SAR work.

Revelation · Fri Jun 29, 2018 2:25 pm

bikerthai wrote:
Interesting insight on the pricing of the P-8A.

http://english.yonhapnews.co.kr/nationa ... 52315.html

Amid the prospect of a multiple-party contest, some observers said that the naval project should be put to an open bidder, which could help lower prices.

But a DAPA official said that the U.S. government proposed a reasonable price for the Boeing aircraft similar to that of Saab's Swordfish.

"Should we opt for an open contest, Poseidon's price could go up 10 to 28 percent per unit, which would limit the number of planes we could buy within the total budget," the official said on condition of anonymity.

Such pricing is probably because of the benefit of tagging on to the US Navy multi-year buy.

http://aviationweek.com/combat-aircraft ... maybe-more agrees and suggests that the no-bid procedure allows the bypass of rules that require technology transfer and/or local partnership. The vendors usually charge more when those things are in the package so the no-bid procedure is thought to be providing a lower overall price albeit with no tech transfer or local jobs.

Mortyman wrote:
bikerthai wrote:
Mortyman wrote:
* South Korea (na)

Defense News suggest Korea is getting 6.

bt

Not a large number for a country like South Korea ...

Same article as above says "the (SK) navy can be expected to quickly seek more".

Revelation · Fri Jun 29, 2018 3:10 pm

cumulushumilis wrote:
Or better yet, buy a lower cost platform like the C 295 or C-27J. C-130J are way too costly to be flying low and slow for dedicated SAR work.

Reading the posts above about the big distances to traverse, it seems the turboprop is falling out of favor for the SAR role.

Seems the trend shown by these purchase is to favor the fast jet to get you to the scene quickest then use the big radar to help find the victim then kick out a raft and wait for helos or cutters to come to the scene.

Seems the other jet-based contenders do not have the critical mass needed to offer good value for money.

Seems like getting P8s for the same price the US government pays is a hard bargain to pass up.

Then you can tap in to the 737NG pool of resources of crews, maintainers, parts, MROs, etc.

Then consider it can also do ASW and launch Harpoons or torpedos at the bad guys, it's an impressive package.

bikerthai · Fri Jun 29, 2018 3:58 pm

Revelation wrote:
kick out a raft

For the P-8A I believe the SAR kit is loaded into the bomb bay.

Man handling the raft through the bail out door is not something you don't want to do as standard practice. :weightlifter:

bt

Revelation · Fri Jun 29, 2018 4:15 pm

bikerthai wrote:
Revelation wrote:
kick out a raft

For the P-8A I believe the SAR kit is loaded into the bomb bay.

Man handling the raft through the bail out door is not something you don't want to do as standard practice.

bt

Correct as always.

http://www.navy.mil/submit/display.asp?story_id=104438 tells us the "UNI-PAC II, Air-Drop Survival Kit" ( https://www.lifesupportintl.com/product ... -aircraft/ ) was deployed.

Some pretty pictures:

ZKNCI · Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:01 am

RNZAF P-8A purchase has been confirmed by cabinet today. 5sqn will receive four P-8s, commencing operations in 2023, replacing the six P-3Ks which were delivered from 1966. The squadron will move from Whenuapai to Ohakea due to runway restrictions. Also, it seems NZ will consider potentially adding a smaller platform for the short-range work.
http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/361421/govt-to-spend-2-point-3b-on-planes-to-replace-aging-fleet

Zkpilot · Tue Jul 10, 2018 6:46 am

Good call buying the P-8. As others have said just get some cheaper drones for coastal SAR and surveillance.

Kiwirob · Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:28 am

4 isn’t enough it should be 5 or 6.

ZaphodHarkonnen · Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:16 am

Kiwirob wrote:
4 isn’t enough it should be 5 or 6.

It looks like the government will be investing something a bit cheaper to operate for closer in. Leaving the P-8 for more long range stuff. So 4 should be enough.

seahawk · Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:40 am

4 P-8 + 4 CASA or ATR would make sense.

bunumuring · Tue Jul 10, 2018 1:30 pm

Hey guys,
I wonder how closely us Aussies will work with the Kiwis on joint training and maintenance etc on the Poseidons? Anyone know how 'similar' the Aussie and Kiwi P-8s will be?
Cheers,
Bunumuring

bigjku · Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:19 pm

bunumuring wrote:
Hey guys,
I wonder how closely us Aussies will work with the Kiwis on joint training and maintenance etc on the Poseidons? Anyone know how 'similar' the Aussie and Kiwi P-8s will be?
Cheers,
Bunumuring

My understand is that the US, UK, Australia and NZ variants will be very similar. The Indian variant is not. Unless NZ wants to substitute certain things they almost certainly will have huge commonality with the other 5 Eyes users.

ZaphodHarkonnen · Tue Jul 10, 2018 3:00 pm

Training and operations between the RAAF and RNZAF are almost guaranteed.
Major upgrades may also happen together depending on what they are and timing. Differences here are probably likely just as they were with the P-3s.
Maintenance? No idea. Probably will remain separate but who knows. I could see some sort of shared pool for more expensive components. But I would expect that to largely remain like it is now.

bikerthai · Tue Jul 17, 2018 4:02 pm

This is one of the benefit of buying a P-8A via FMS.

The RAF’s first of nine Boeing P-8A Poseidon maritime patrol aircraft will be delivered to the service in November 2019, with its second aircraft following in early 2020, the US Navy has revealed.

https://www.shephardmedia.com/news/defe ... elivery-c/

Just a little over 2 years from contract signing (2017) to delivery . . .

The article also state that Norway will get theirs in 2022 with delivery scheduled to accommodate crew training. UK personnel are already operating on US P-8A's, maybe that is one of the reason why they are able to accept their aircraft faster.

bt

ZaphodHarkonnen · Tue Jul 17, 2018 4:10 pm

My understanding is the the USN essentially gives up the earlier slots. After all they've already got a bunch and will be getting deliveries for a while to come. So passing up on a few doesn't make a huge difference and is beneficial for allies.

Caryjack · Mon Jul 30, 2018 10:32 am

bigjku wrote:
bunumuring wrote:
Hey guys,
I wonder how closely us Aussies will work with the Kiwis on joint training and maintenance etc on the Poseidons? Anyone know how 'similar' the Aussie and Kiwi P-8s will be?
Cheers,
Bunumuring

My understand is that the US, UK, Australia and NZ variants will be very similar. The Indian variant is not. Unless NZ wants to substitute certain things they almost certainly will have huge commonality with the other 5 Eyes users.

Thanks for the 5 Eyes referance: I was looking for it.

Canada is the 5th Eye and should have a similar variant. I think Norway would also have "huge commonality" with the others.
Thanks,
Cary

bikerthai · Mon Jul 30, 2018 1:54 pm

Caryjack wrote:
Canada is the 5th Eye and should have a similar variant.

Not with the current relation between Canada and Boeing.

If it's a FMS then they may be able to talk themselves around it . . . but I would be surprise it Canada will order the P-8A any time soon. And cynics will predict that Canada will finally order some P-8A but only after the line shut down and they would have to get them used from the US Navy. :white:

bt

bigjku · Mon Jul 30, 2018 2:23 pm

bikerthai wrote:
Caryjack wrote:
Canada is the 5th Eye and should have a similar variant.

Not with the current relation between Canada and Boeing.

If it's a FMS then they may be able to talk themselves around it . . . but I would be surprise it Canada will order the P-8A any time soon. And cynics will predict that Canada will finally order some P-8A but only after the line shut down and they would have to get them used from the US Navy.

bt

Canada just needs to pay it’s fair share and show it takes its NATO and NORAD responsibilities half seriously. Hasn’t don’t that for at least 30 years.

Slug71 · Tue Jul 31, 2018 12:36 am

bigjku wrote:
bikerthai wrote:
Caryjack wrote:
Canada is the 5th Eye and should have a similar variant.

Not with the current relation between Canada and Boeing.

If it's a FMS then they may be able to talk themselves around it . . . but I would be surprise it Canada will order the P-8A any time soon. And cynics will predict that Canada will finally order some P-8A but only after the line shut down and they would have to get them used from the US Navy.

bt

Canada just needs to pay it’s fair share and show it takes its NATO and NORAD responsibilities half seriously. Hasn’t don’t that for at least 30 years.

I think it's more likely that Canada becomes the launch customer for the A320 MPA.

bikerthai · Tue Jul 31, 2018 1:34 pm

Slug71 wrote:
I think it's more likely that Canada becomes the launch customer for the A320 MPA.

Only if someone else pay for the development cost? :banghead:

bt

bigjku · Tue Jul 31, 2018 2:41 pm

Slug71 wrote:
bigjku wrote:
bikerthai wrote:

Not with the current relation between Canada and Boeing.

If it's a FMS then they may be able to talk themselves around it . . . but I would be surprise it Canada will order the P-8A any time soon. And cynics will predict that Canada will finally order some P-8A but only after the line shut down and they would have to get them used from the US Navy.

bt

Canada just needs to pay it’s fair share and show it takes its NATO and NORAD responsibilities half seriously. Hasn’t don’t that for at least 30 years.

I think it's more likely that Canada becomes the launch customer for the A320 MPA.

Clearly. The US has been so cruel to Canada all these years.

bikerthai · Mon Aug 06, 2018 2:32 pm

While no longer part of the official ROKN inner circle, this article from a retired ROKN officer provides some insight on the ROKN decision on the P-8A.

https://thediplomat.com/2018/08/south-k ... -decision/

For Boeing’s P-8A Poseidon, sufficient references were provided for the DAPA to fully assess the aircraft and make a decision, whereas neither Saab’s Swordfish MPA nor Airbus’s C295 turbo-prop MPA provided the necessary references to meet DAPA’s requirements.

Does this means the P-8A is more mature and has more data available for the ROKN to access?

. and the P-8A Poseidon is already in use by at least five navies around the world, including the navies of Japan and India.

Did he mean Australia and not Japan? Or does he have information on the Japanese intention with the P-1? Slip of the tongue or just an honest mistake?

The ROKN’s procurement of P-8As provides a useful fillip to Trump’s “America First” policy, and will hopefully mitigate U.S. pressure on cost-sharing. Thus, the strategic implications of acquiring P-8As must take account of the utility of such a quid pro quo.

Give credit where credit is due. President Trump can be over the top with his rhetoric, but in some circles, it it effective. Needless to say that any other US President would do the same, it would just be more behind the scene.

Finally, the ROKN’s pilots have become familiar with the P-3C Orion since the mid-1990s, and many of them are reluctant to retrain for a substantially different kind of MPA. For a number of reasons, the pilots prefer the P-8A Poseidon to the Saab Swordfish MPA or the Airbus C295 MPA, and this preference was surely considered by DAPA when deciding which next-generation MPA to acquire to replace the aging P-3C.

This is more curious . . . The P-8A does not fly like the P-3C either. Perhaps these ROKN pilots are more familiar with a 737 than the two "business jets".

bt

DeltaMD90 · Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:39 pm

Glad to see more orders for the P-8A. Excellent aircraft.

I am a little surprised NZ ordered them. I do suppose the age of their P-3s go into the mix (they are well maintained but still... they aren't getting any younger) and I'm sure Australia ordering them might've gone into the calculus. The P-8A has a clear advantage of going out far (and getting their quickly) and its performance over large areas is excellent, but the P-3 does have an advantage when it comes to loiter time. Many of the missions they do involve loitering for long periods of time.

That's not to say the P-8A can't hang around an area for a while... its endurance is pretty impressive. And like I said, the fact that the P-8A can dash out quickly (and further) and still stay on station a while may counteract any loiter disadvantage it has.

That all being said, can't wait to see the Kiwi painted onto the P-8As

bikerthai · Thu Aug 09, 2018 1:52 pm

DeltaMD90 wrote:
but the P-3 does have an advantage when it comes to loiter time.

Ask any crew if they would rather loiter on a P-8 vs the P-3, the answer would be nearly unanimous. Feedback overwhelmingly favors the P-8A for flight comfort and environment which translate to improved human performance at the tail end of the mission.

bt

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