FlyingLaw1
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C-130 Crash Near SAV

Wed May 02, 2018 4:20 pm

Hi Everyone,

Didn't see this posted anywhere. Hoping for good news regarding the crew and anyone on the road at the time.

https://twitter.com/IAFF574/status/991707731143872512
 
estorilm
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Re: C-130 Crash Near SAV

Wed May 02, 2018 4:30 pm

Zero additional information anywhere at the moment, but that certainly doesn't look good. Does anyone know where that is relative to a runway? Tweet gives road intersection but i'm at work.
 
FlyingLaw1
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Re: C-130 Crash Near SAV

Wed May 02, 2018 4:35 pm

estorilm wrote:
Zero additional information anywhere at the moment, but that certainly doesn't look good. Does anyone know where that is relative to a runway? Tweet gives road intersection but i'm at work.


From what I remember that intersection is just north east of the field. Runways are 10/28 and 1/19. So the intersection mentioned is approximately 45 degrees off 28 and 19. I'd say less than a mile from airport property. Wind is light and variable as of 1553 UTC so that doesn't really give a good indication of which run way it may have been coming from/going to.
Last edited by FlyingLaw1 on Wed May 02, 2018 4:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
estorilm
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Re: C-130 Crash Near SAV

Wed May 02, 2018 4:35 pm

Air National Guard confirms 5 people on-board, no word on status.
 
D L X
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Re: C-130 Crash Near SAV

Wed May 02, 2018 4:36 pm

That photo does not look good.
 
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JetBuddy
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Re: C-130 Crash Near SAV

Wed May 02, 2018 4:49 pm

Hoping for the best. But it certainly doesn't look good.
 
KSAVFBO
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Re: C-130 Crash Near SAV

Wed May 02, 2018 5:06 pm

2 fatalities have been found so far. Still searching wreckage. I'm currently at KSAV and will try to relay what I hear as it comes in.
 
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KPDX
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Re: C-130 Crash Near SAV

Wed May 02, 2018 5:45 pm

Scramble is reporting it was headed to Davis Monthan AFB for storage and was the last flight of the aircraft... If true, that is quite scary.
 
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Moose135
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Re: C-130 Crash Near SAV

Wed May 02, 2018 5:57 pm

Per an Air Force / ANG Tweet, it belonged to the Puerto Rico Air National Guard.
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zakuivcustom
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Re: C-130 Crash Near SAV

Wed May 02, 2018 6:00 pm

Two confirmed dead so far :cry2:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/mi ... ia-n870786

Doesn't look good for the rest of the crew, either. :tombstone:
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: C-130 Crash Near SAV

Wed May 02, 2018 6:06 pm

I’ve delivered 2 F-100s and a C-5 to the Boneyard. Both were in far better shape mechanically and appearance than when AD delivered them to us. The C-5 had zero write-ups.

GF
 
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SAS A340
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Re: C-130 Crash Near SAV

Wed May 02, 2018 6:28 pm

:pray: And hope for the best!
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Seabear
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Re: C-130 Crash Near SAV

Wed May 02, 2018 7:08 pm

USA TODAY: At least 5 die in Air National Guard plane crash in Georgia

https://usat.ly/2I96ril

Very tragic day for the crew and families and colleagues.
 
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casinterest
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Re: C-130 Crash Near SAV

Wed May 02, 2018 7:31 pm

There is a video on the linked twitter account. looks like a stall, but I can't tell if the engines failed .

https://twitter.com/scottoftroy/status/ ... 64/video/1
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Runway28L
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Re: C-130 Crash Near SAV

Wed May 02, 2018 7:48 pm

casinterest wrote:
There is a video on the linked twitter account. looks like a stall, but I can't tell if the engines failed .

https://twitter.com/scottoftroy/status/ ... 64/video/1

Reminds me a lot of the National 744F crash in Afghanistan.

2018 hasn't been very kind to aviation so far. :shakehead:
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casinterest
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Re: C-130 Crash Near SAV

Wed May 02, 2018 8:13 pm

N14AZ wrote:
casinterest wrote:
There is a video on the linked twitter account. looks like a stall, but I can't tell if the engines failed .

https://twitter.com/scottoftroy/status/ ... 64/video/1

Just read this reply in that Twitter link:

Good afternoon. CBS News would like permission to use your video on all news platforms with credit to you? Usage - web, int'l and Newspath (affiliates). Cool?

Can’t believe what I am reading here... is CBS really suggesting it would be „cool“ if they use his video mentioning his name everywhere?



I think they want the actual security camera video if they can get it. Then give him credit for it.
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N14AZ
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Re: C-130 Crash Near SAV

Wed May 02, 2018 8:16 pm

casinterest wrote:
There is a video on the linked twitter account. looks like a stall, but I can't tell if the engines failed .

https://twitter.com/scottoftroy/status/ ... 64/video/1

Just read this reply in that Twitter link:

Good afternoon. CBS News would like permission to use your video on all news platforms with credit to you? Usage - web, int'l and Newspath (affiliates). Cool?

Can’t believe what I am reading here... is CBS really suggesting it would be „cool“ if they use his video mentioning his name everywhere?
 
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Aesma
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Re: C-130 Crash Near SAV

Wed May 02, 2018 8:27 pm

Cool as in "OK". Poor choice of words for sure.
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wjcandee
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Re: C-130 Crash Near SAV

Wed May 02, 2018 8:30 pm

The CBS thing is disrespectful as heck, but it's some 20-year-old in their social media department who can't be expected to have any appreciation of how stupid that tweet is.

I saw something that conflicted with the "last flight" info; indicated that it had just done some maint at CHS. But certainly possible...

Doesn't look anything like the National 747 accident. Not even remotely.
 
aumaverick
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Re: C-130 Crash Near SAV

Wed May 02, 2018 8:32 pm

From the video, and from the post-crash photos, is there anything to the idea the rudder breaking loose being a factor?

http://www.islandpacket.com/news/local/ ... 85864.html
It's an entirely different kind of flying, altogether.
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: C-130 Crash Near SAV

Wed May 02, 2018 9:45 pm

Runway28L wrote:
casinterest wrote:
There is a video on the linked twitter account. looks like a stall, but I can't tell if the engines failed .

https://twitter.com/scottoftroy/status/ ... 64/video/1

Reminds me a lot of the National 744F crash in Afghanistan.

2018 hasn't been very kind to aviation so far. :shakehead:


It's a WC-130 (Weather Recon Plane, aka "Hurricane Hunter"), not a regular (cargo) C-130, so I don't think there's any shifting cargo involved here.
 
wjcandee
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Re: C-130 Crash Near SAV

Wed May 02, 2018 10:02 pm

Zak: This appears to be an H model. The ones actively used for weather are all j model and flown by a different unit. If I understand correctly, this was retired from weather use and assigned to the Puerto Rico Air National Guard. But I could be completely wrong.
 
kraz911
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Re: C-130 Crash Near SAV

Wed May 02, 2018 10:51 pm

Hello all,
A Flightglobal alert I received indicates it was a C-130H bu no. 65-0968. Looking at the video, they came in hard. I hope that they had some control that they aimed for the road. It was chance that they missed populated areas and vehicles on the road. It’s truly sad that a milk run and loaded with fuel to Arizona ended in tragedy. Condolences to their family, friends and colleagues...
 
kraz911
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Re: C-130 Crash Near SAV

Wed May 02, 2018 10:58 pm

Hello all,
I may be mistaken with the number I posted. It might be the aircraft serial number. My apologies...
 
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cjg225
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Re: C-130 Crash Near SAV

Thu May 03, 2018 12:58 am

casinterest wrote:
There is a video on the linked twitter account. looks like a stall, but I can't tell if the engines failed .

https://twitter.com/scottoftroy/status/ ... 64/video/1

Holy jeez. That is awful.
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F9Animal
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Re: C-130 Crash Near SAV

Thu May 03, 2018 1:47 am

It seriously looks like a cargo shift to me! I just cant think of anything that could cause the plane to dive like that! Unless the controls in the tail locked up? Does the C-130 have a gust lock?
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mxaxai
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Re: C-130 Crash Near SAV

Thu May 03, 2018 2:18 am

A plane should not just enter a dive like that. Kinda reminds me of a spin. Doesn't look like a cargo shift at all especially since they seem to be in horizontal flight initially. Some control surfaces failing could also have similar results.
 
bunumuring
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Re: C-130 Crash Near SAV

Thu May 03, 2018 2:19 am

Hey guys,
RIP to all involved.
The Twitter video reminds me of a video of a B-52 that crashed in the 80s/early 90s. I can't remember any details beyond that it was a B-52 and that it final moments looked very similar to this Herc's final moments.
Thanks,
Bunumuring
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salttee
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Re: C-130 Crash Near SAV

Thu May 03, 2018 2:19 am

It doesn't look like the classic stall spin to me. When the video begins, it looks like the plane was banked to the left but still under control. The stall doesn't seem to occur until about three seconds into the video. Does a C-130 have some peculiar stall characteristics?
 
Pontius
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Re: C-130 Crash Near SAV

Thu May 03, 2018 3:38 am

bunumuring wrote:
Hey guys,
RIP to all involved.
The Twitter video reminds me of a video of a B-52 that crashed in the 80s/early 90s. I can't remember any details beyond that it was a B-52 and that it final moments looked very similar to this Herc's final moments.
Thanks,
Bunumuring


CZAR 52:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994_Fairchild_Air_Force_Base_B-52_crash
 
wjcandee
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Re: C-130 Crash Near SAV

Thu May 03, 2018 3:50 am

Not like CZAR52, which was precipitated by too steep a bank at too low a speed. Went in totally-differently.
 
zanl188
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Re: C-130 Crash Near SAV

Thu May 03, 2018 6:12 am

salttee wrote:
It doesn't look like the classic stall spin to me. When the video begins, it looks like the plane was banked to the left but still under control. The stall doesn't seem to occur until about three seconds into the video. Does a C-130 have some peculiar stall characteristics?


If there’s a problem with an outboard engine or prop, it’s possible to stall the vertical stabilizer. Details escape me at the moment, but an outboard engine/prop failure needs to be handled correctly when low and slow.
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fsnuffer
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Re: C-130 Crash Near SAV

Thu May 03, 2018 11:09 am

Mods, if cross-posting to another forum violates a rule please delete:

http://www.c-130hercules.net/forums/top ... fin-stall/
 
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UAL747422
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Re: C-130 Crash Near SAV

Thu May 03, 2018 1:33 pm

estorilm wrote:
Air National Guard confirms 5 people on-board, no word on status.


Unfortunately, there were no survivors. :cry:
I just love the 747, as you already may have noticed.
 
estorilm
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Re: C-130 Crash Near SAV

Thu May 03, 2018 2:35 pm

fsnuffer wrote:
Mods, if cross-posting to another forum violates a rule please delete:

http://www.c-130hercules.net/forums/top ... fin-stall/

I came across this as well, and doesn't appear to be related. There's hardly any mention of a rapid nose-down pitch action, and the accident aircraft certainly didn't roll past 90+ degrees initially.

Interesting information though, for sure. I'm rather surprised that no one on those forums is discussing this! I was sure I'd find a lengthy thread with good info from Herc drivers.
 
kraz911
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Re: C-130 Crash Near SAV

Thu May 03, 2018 2:51 pm

Hello all,
Looking for pictures of the accident aircraft in her glory, I came across a picture of when the President and First Lady went to Puerto Rico to meet with the leaders in a press conference after the hurricanes, they sat under the wing of 65-0968 in the hangar...
 
estorilm
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Re: C-130 Crash Near SAV

Thu May 03, 2018 2:54 pm

kraz911 wrote:
Hello all,
Looking for pictures of the accident aircraft in her glory, I came across a picture of when the President and First Lady went to Puerto Rico to meet with the leaders in a press conference after the hurricanes, they sat under the wing of 65-0968 in the hangar...

She had definitely been around the block once or twice.. that's for sure. I wasn't born for another 26 years after this thing first flew!
 
diverted
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Re: C-130 Crash Near SAV

Thu May 03, 2018 8:40 pm

Found on Reddit, so take it as you will...

Friend of mine watched the whole thing from liftoff. A few hundred feet off the deck, he saw the #1 prop feather and stop rotating. Pitch attitude remained the same until small roll started, then got exponentially worse until it rapidly departed to the left. He said it looked like a classic below Vmca event after engine failure.
 
trnswrld
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Re: C-130 Crash Near SAV

Thu May 03, 2018 9:44 pm

^^^ well looks like whoever posted it knew enough about aviation with some of those terms that it could be a very good clue into what happened.
Very sad event for all involved. Just so little time to manage things at a low and slow departing phase of flight.
 
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JackMeahoff
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Re: C-130 Crash Near SAV

Fri May 04, 2018 2:29 am

Asymmetrical thrust, low airspeed. Who knows what else. The reddit boards are on fire over this one.
 
Andre3K
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Re: C-130 Crash Near SAV

Fri May 04, 2018 3:12 am

Having put the elevator boost packs and pushrod's in a few C-130J's I wouldn't be surprised if the connections might be a good place to start looking. In other word's I always thought the tie rod end's looked a little "flimsy" from my non-engineering eye. And while it's not impossible to inspect them, it's something you wouldn't want to have to do all the time (there is hardly any room at all up there).
 
Ivorytower
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Re: C-130 Crash Near SAV

Fri May 04, 2018 2:35 pm

Pure speculation but in the start of the crash video it looks like the aircraft is crabbing. Asymmetrical trust due to loss of #1 would induce yaw. The rudder of a c-130 is huge for low speed and should have compensated, until the hard left bank for possible RTB. This may have been an error under the circumstances bleeding off too much airspeed. The pitch down looks commanded to regain airspeed and avoid stall, unfortunately the unknown conditions at an obviously low speed may have stalled the horizontal or vertical stab causing the loss of control. The navigator should have had time to call in an IFE to ATC with cause if it was engine loss on takeoff.
 
D L X
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Re: C-130 Crash Near SAV

Fri May 04, 2018 2:43 pm

Does this look like the Taiwanese ATR crash to you guys? As in, perhaps an engine failed, and the pilots feathered the wrong prop?
 
Navman101
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Re: C-130 Crash Near SAV

Fri May 04, 2018 10:04 pm

Looks like an outboard engine failure coupled with improper inputs from the pilot flying. The “Herc” has a hidden characteristic where a “finstall” can be induced by rapid opposite rudder kicks coupled with cross control of the ailerons. So if an outboard engine failed and the pilot put in too much rudder rapidly and then reversed his actions by going full in on the opposite rudder pedal. The results (under certain conditions) can be separation of laminar airflow from the vertical stabilizer causing the plane to behave like it doesn’t have a fin at all. That coupled with an outboard engine failure would result in rapid departure from controlled flight. Either that or the outboard engine when into reverse, in which case you are dead regardless.
 
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jetmechanicdave
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Re: C-130 Crash Near SAV

Fri May 04, 2018 10:18 pm

Navman101 wrote:
Looks like an outboard engine failure coupled with improper inputs from the pilot flying. The “Herc” has a hidden characteristic where a “finstall” can be induced by rapid opposite rudder kicks coupled with cross control of the ailerons. So if an outboard engine failed and the pilot put in too much rudder rapidly and then reversed his actions by going full in on the opposite rudder pedal. The results (under certain conditions) can be separation of laminar airflow from the vertical stabilizer causing the plane to behave like it doesn’t have a fin at all. That coupled with an outboard engine failure would result in rapid departure from controlled flight. Either that or the outboard engine when into reverse, in which case you are dead regardless.


Thanks for sharing that. Very interesting!
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777PHX
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Re: C-130 Crash Near SAV

Mon May 07, 2018 5:17 am

That's a classic VMC roll.
 
windy95
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Re: C-130 Crash Near SAV

Tue May 08, 2018 6:48 pm

Appears to have lost the #1 engine. The plane had long been a part of Puerto Rico’s Air National Guard fleet and It crashed during what was its final flight. The plane was being flown into retirement to Davis/Monthan, Arizona when it took off from Savannah.
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sovietjet
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Re: C-130 Crash Near SAV

Tue May 08, 2018 11:39 pm

So losing one engine on a Herc leads to a crash? I thought it can fly on 3?
 
meecrob
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Re: C-130 Crash Near SAV

Wed May 09, 2018 12:52 am

sovietjet wrote:
So losing one engine on a Herc leads to a crash? I thought it can fly on 3?


*This is speculation based on what I have read upthread* The C-130 most certainly can fly on 3 engines. Having said that, it seems this aircraft was below VMC for 3 engine flight, and/or incorrect rudder input was used in the recovery from the engine failure which lead to a fin stall. In addition, the aircraft was at very low altitude. They might have been able to recover had there been more height to trade for speed.
 
dfwjim1
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Re: C-130 Crash Near SAV

Fri May 11, 2018 7:01 pm

Slightly off course but I am curious as to why there were 9 people on the plane since it was going to Arizona to be retired. I was under the impression that the standard number of crew on a C-130 was 5.

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