estorilm
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Elmendorf Air Force Base F-22 mishap @ NAS Fallon, gear-up landing after engine failure.

Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:37 pm

http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/20129/f-22-raptor-came-to-a-rest-on-its-belly-during-major-mishap-friday-at-nas-fallon

Looks really ouchy to all the exotic materials and RAM involved.. yikes. Apparently engine failure at takeoff. Brought in to assist in VSF training at "Top Gun" too (which is a cool concept, I wasn't aware of joint training much less with the F-22s, got to be a cool aircraft to train with/against!)

Quick question though - can't an aircraft with such an immense thrust-to-weight ratio (I think it's like 1.16:1 or something) EASILY climb out (probably at a decent rate as well) on a single engine? I'm sure they'll actually provide some information so everyone doesn't start thinking the F-22 has some sort of single-engine vulnerability.

I wonder if it was a software problem? You'd certainly think they've seen just about everything imaginable at this point, being so long after testing.
 
angad84
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Re: Elmendorf Air Force Base F-22 mishap @ NAS Fallon, gear-up landing after engine failure.

Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:19 pm

Maybe control authority issues? I remember reading somewhere that F110-powered F-14s didn't do cat shots at full afterburner because the new engines had so much more thrust than the original TF30s, that if one failed at max reheat the other would overcome the available rudder authority.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Elmendorf Air Force Base F-22 mishap @ NAS Fallon, gear-up landing after engine failure.

Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:22 am

And I would expect it to have some sort of automatic system to increase thrust if necessary, and even deflect the rudders on its own.
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estorilm
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Re: Elmendorf Air Force Base F-22 mishap @ NAS Fallon, gear-up landing after engine failure.

Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:45 pm

Aesma wrote:
And I would expect it to have some sort of automatic system to increase thrust if necessary, and even deflect the rudders on its own.

Exactly - considering the incredible complexity and ingenuity involved with the control surface deflections (fascinating to watch) something like that would almost seem trivial.

Something must have been *damaged* I would think? I can't run too many scenarios through my head where an engine failure results in... that.
 
RetiredWeasel
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Re: Elmendorf Air Force Base F-22 mishap @ NAS Fallon, gear-up landing after engine failure.

Tue Apr 17, 2018 3:07 pm

Each engine on a Tomcat is offset from the center approx 5 ' so there could be a noticeable asymmetric thrust situation at high thrust and high angles of attacks when one fails. Even then, I doubt the pilots used a reduced setting during T/O as mentioned by a previous poster.

An F-22's engines are offset maybe 2 feet and really wouldn't present much of an asymmetrical thrust problem if one failed. In the case of this accident, I won't speculate on what happened, but they do occasionally due mil power takeoffs and if one failed just after raising the gear, not getting the good engine into AB might present a problem
 
zanl188
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Re: Elmendorf Air Force Base F-22 mishap @ NAS Fallon, gear-up landing after engine failure.

Tue Apr 17, 2018 4:01 pm

estorilm wrote:
Aesma wrote:
And I would expect it to have some sort of automatic system to increase thrust if necessary, and even deflect the rudders on its own.

Exactly - considering the incredible complexity and ingenuity involved with the control surface deflections (fascinating to watch) something like that would almost seem trivial.


Good idea for commercial aircraft. Maybe not so much for a fighter.

Do we know the gear failure wasn’t systems related? If the hydraulic pump powering the gear at the time was on the failed eng, gear may have lost pressure with no time to recover.
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Moose135
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Re: Elmendorf Air Force Base F-22 mishap @ NAS Fallon, gear-up landing after engine failure.

Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:56 pm

RetiredWeasel wrote:
Each engine on a Tomcat is offset from the center approx 5 ' so there could be a noticeable asymmetric thrust situation at high thrust and high angles of attacks when one fails. Even then, I doubt the pilots used a reduced setting during T/O as mentioned by a previous poster.

On the D-model, they did.

http://www.topedge.com/alley/text/f14d/f14d.htm

The extra thrust of the F110 allows almost all carrier take offs to be made in dry power. While this does result in fuel savings, the main reason why F-14D's do not tend to use afterburner during carrier launches is that if an engine failed the huge thrust of an F110 in full afterburner would produce an unrecoverable yawing motion in too short a time for the pilot to react. Thus for an F-14D an afterburner launch is rare, whereas the F-14A requires full afterburner unless very lightly loaded.
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RetiredWeasel
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Re: Elmendorf Air Force Base F-22 mishap @ NAS Fallon, gear-up landing after engine failure.

Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:41 pm

Moose135 wrote:


You would be correct. I looked it up in the D model NATOPS. There are youtube video's, however, that show D's lighting their burners right after liftoff, but they are mainly demo flights and I assume they have a dispensation.
 
LMP737
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Re: Elmendorf Air Force Base F-22 mishap @ NAS Fallon, gear-up landing after engine failure.

Wed Apr 18, 2018 12:39 am

Speaking of NAS Fallon and the F-14D there was a D that belly landed there back in the early 90's. The pilot throew the gear handle up too soon and belly flopped back on the runway. Ground down the TCS/IRST pod down about halfway. There are pictures out there, I just have to find them.
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