Virtual737
Topic Author
Posts: 263
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2016 6:16 am

Algerian Military Il-76 Down Near Algiers

Wed Apr 11, 2018 10:06 am

https://news.sky.com/story/algerian-mil ... s-11326146

Reported ~100 deceased. Down shortly after takeoff. RIP to those involved and thoughts with their family and friends.
 
User avatar
SAS A340
Posts: 802
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 5:59 am

Re: Algerian Military Il-76 Down Near Algiers

Wed Apr 11, 2018 11:08 am

Reuters.seems to report according to a Swedish newspaper that 257 people are dead.....are there room for that many?? It seems to have went down in a agriculture area.
https://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/a/wE ... t-257-doda (Swedish only)
It's not what u do,it's how u do it!
 
User avatar
ro1960
Posts: 862
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 8:19 am

Re: Algerian Military Il-76 Down Near Algiers

Wed Apr 11, 2018 11:23 am

The high toll could be because it crashed on a motorway.
 
User avatar
Aesma
Posts: 10196
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: Algerian Military Il-76 Down Near Algiers

Wed Apr 11, 2018 11:25 am

If that's the case I doubt any number is really accurate.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
User avatar
ro1960
Posts: 862
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 8:19 am

Re: Algerian Military Il-76 Down Near Algiers

Wed Apr 11, 2018 12:12 pm

I saw on Le Monde that all victims were on board (247 10 crew).
 
User avatar
readytotaxi
Posts: 5366
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2006 2:09 am

Re: Algerian Military Il-76 Down Near Algiers

Wed Apr 11, 2018 12:44 pm

you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
Growing older, but not up.
 
BENAir01
Posts: 404
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2015 7:42 pm

Re: Algerian Military Il-76 Down Near Algiers

Wed Apr 11, 2018 12:51 pm

Holy shit this is awful. I hope they find the cause soon.
Why is flying so expensive? And why is flying well so much more?
 
sw733
Posts: 5650
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 6:19 am

Re: Algerian Military Il-76 Down Near Algiers

Wed Apr 11, 2018 1:01 pm

I know that IL-76s have been known to carry a LOT of people, but I can't imagine what it's like to have 257 people inside one of those things. RIP.
 
User avatar
casinterest
Posts: 6552
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: Algerian Military Il-76 Down Near Algiers

Wed Apr 11, 2018 1:05 pm

This is horrible. I offer my condolences to the family and friends of those lost on this plane.
Hopefully the cause will be known soon.
Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
 
User avatar
Tugger
Posts: 7856
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:38 am

Re: Algerian Military Il-76 Down Near Algiers

Wed Apr 11, 2018 2:11 pm

This is awful, so terrible for so many families and loved ones. My condolences.
The IL-76 is a reliable and true work horse of an aircraft. I will be watching to see what happened to cause such a tragedy.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
 
A388
Posts: 7662
Joined: Mon May 21, 2001 3:48 am

Re: Algerian Military Il-76 Down Near Algiers

Wed Apr 11, 2018 2:47 pm

An awful crash and as others have said, I also can't imagine how it would feel to have 257 inside an IL76, seems to me like it's too many but please correct me on this. My condolences to the families and friends of the people lost in this tragic crash :(

A388
 
User avatar
ptrjong
Posts: 4129
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 9:38 am

Re: Algerian Military Il-76 Down Near Algiers

Wed Apr 11, 2018 4:33 pm

It's a big aircraft but my first thought was also, wow, 250 pax in an Il-76?

Wikipedia gives no info about the number of seats that can be fitted. However, it says a cancelled version was a double-decked 250-passenger airliner. So, the single cargo deck must be packed with 250...
The only difference between me and a madman is that I am not mad (Salvador Dali)
 
marktci
Posts: 164
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2009 4:05 am

Re: Algerian Military Il-76 Down Near Algiers

Wed Apr 11, 2018 4:36 pm

A388 wrote:
An awful crash and as others have said, I also can't imagine how it would feel to have 257 inside an IL76, seems to me like it's too many but please correct me on this. My condolences to the families and friends of the people lost in this tragic crash :(

A388


In 2003, an Iranian IL-76 crashed with 275 on board.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_Iran ... l-76_crash
 
zrb2
Posts: 856
Joined: Sat May 20, 2000 10:07 am

Re: Algerian Military Il-76 Down Near Algiers

Wed Apr 11, 2018 4:52 pm

My first thought was also, wow that plane seemed overloaded. Especially if those people had any luggage/cargo to bring along. I just can’t imagine
 
User avatar
CrimsonNL
Posts: 2000
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2007 6:34 pm

Re: Algerian Military Il-76 Down Near Algiers

Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:58 pm

zrb2 wrote:
My first thought was also, wow that plane seemed overloaded. Especially if those people had any luggage/cargo to bring along. I just can’t imagine


Not necessarily. It's a crazy amount of people but their weight should be far below what the -76 can haul. Plus I doubt there is room for much baggage and cargo when you have to squeeze in so many people..

Martijn
Always comparing your flown types list with mine
 
User avatar
PW100
Posts: 3061
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 9:17 pm

Re: Algerian Military Il-76 Down Near Algiers

Wed Apr 11, 2018 6:14 pm

Probably totally urelated, but the (in)famous "Vodka Burner" video came to mind . . .
Immigration officer: "What's the purpose of your visit to the USA?" Spotter: "Shooting airliners with my Canon!"
 
Armaghman
Posts: 95
Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2016 8:34 pm

Re: Algerian Military Il-76 Down Near Algiers

Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:37 pm

RIP

We all take so much for granted. If this had have been an A or B Aircraft in developed world posts here would have been crazy numbers.

Let’s hope they get to bottom of it so can all continue to learn and have years like 2017 for aircraft safety
 
User avatar
glideslope
Posts: 1491
Joined: Sun May 30, 2004 8:06 pm

Re: Algerian Military Il-76 Down Near Algiers

Wed Apr 11, 2018 10:57 pm

PW100 wrote:
Probably totally urelated, but the (in)famous "Vodka Burner" video came to mind . . .


Sadly, that was the first image that came to me. RIP.
To know your Enemy, you must become your Enemy.” Sun Tzu
 
cat3appr50
Posts: 120
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:44 pm

Re: Algerian Military Il-76 Down Near Algiers

Wed Apr 11, 2018 11:02 pm

May God comfort the families and loved ones of those who sadly lost their lives.
Based on the reported 257 passengers, typical passenger and baggage weights (and rough adjustments for military packs etc.), the reported route (DAAK to DAOF) to be flown and estimated cruise altitude, available online IL76 specification max. weight data, and calculated approximate total fuel required (no fuel tankering), IMO the takeoff weight should have been much below maximum takeoff weight.
 
Chaostheory
Posts: 1065
Joined: Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:09 am

Re: Algerian Military Il-76 Down Near Algiers

Wed Apr 11, 2018 11:54 pm

cat3appr50 wrote:
May God comfort the families and loved ones of those who sadly lost their lives.
Based on the reported 257 passengers, typical passenger and baggage weights (and rough adjustments for military packs etc.), the reported route (DAAK to DAOF) to be flown and estimated cruise altitude, available online IL76 specification max. weight data, and calculated approximate total fuel required (no fuel tankering), IMO the takeoff weight should have been much below maximum takeoff weight.


Firstly, the destination airport is a remote and poorly equipped airfield so the aircraft was probably tankering fuel for the return. Secondly, I would be surprised if the IL-76 is certified to airworthiness standards comparable to the US or EU, which would lead me to suspect performance margins.
 
salttee
Posts: 2470
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2016 3:26 am

Re: Algerian Military Il-76 Down Near Algiers

Thu Apr 12, 2018 12:08 am

It looks like it lost an engine on takeoff.
Several witnesses told Algerian TV network Ennahar they saw flames coming out of one of the planes' four engines just before it took off.
"The plane started to rise before falling," an unidentified man lying on what appeared to be a hospital bed told Ennahar TV. "The plane crashed on its wing first and caught fire."
http://www.newser.com/article/5c585d852860450b8509c2266f6aa33d/crash-kills-257-in-algerias-deadliest-aviation-disaster.html
 
User avatar
AirlineCritic
Posts: 1330
Joined: Sat Mar 14, 2009 1:07 pm

Re: Algerian Military Il-76 Down Near Algiers

Thu Apr 12, 2018 6:59 am

First, unreliable witness statements warning! We often get reports of "was on fire" and similar statements in early stages, only to find out that they were completely wrong or even that no such statements were ever made.

That being said, losing an engine + overweight or losing an engine + piloting mistake are potential accident sequences in case like this.

And the man on the hospital bed might be describing the effects of stall.
 
wezgulf3
Posts: 93
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2007 6:52 am

Re: Algerian Military Il-76 Down Near Algiers

Thu Apr 12, 2018 7:26 am

AirlineCritic wrote:
First, unreliable witness statements warning! We often get reports of "was on fire" and similar statements in early stages, only to find out that they were completely wrong or even that no such statements were ever made.

That being said, losing an engine + overweight or losing an engine + piloting mistake are potential accident sequences in case like this.

And the man on the hospital bed might be describing the effects of stall.


The man in the hospital bed said yesterday, that he was hit by the wing as it came down on his farm!

I have been watching the news here in Morocco, it was expected to stop half way to its destination so maybe not as full with fuel as we expect?

Wes...
 
User avatar
SheikhDjibouti
Posts: 995
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:59 pm

Re: Algerian Military Il-76 Down Near Algiers

Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:11 am

cat3appr50 wrote:
May God comfort the families and loved ones of those who sadly lost their lives.
Based on the reported 257 passengers, typical passenger and baggage weights (and rough adjustments for military packs etc.), the reported route (DAAK to DAOF) to be flown and estimated cruise altitude, available online IL76 specification max. weight data, and calculated approximate total fuel required (no fuel tankering), IMO the takeoff weight should have been much below maximum takeoff weight.

Two people have cited over-loading as a possible contributing factor, seemingly ignoring cat3's comment above.

I look at the Il-76, and I am reminded of the original C-141A, and standard (short) bodied C-130's. These aircraft are built to military specs, expecting to carry dense military cargo. The RAF (with the C-130K) and USAF (C-141B) both discovered that the airframe could be stretched because outside of the battlefield, day-to-day operations were frequently constrained by capacity (volume) rather than weight. I have no doubt the Il-76 follows this concept.

But above all else, cat3 has gone through the actual numbers, so whilst 257 pax may seem outrageous, unless it was also carrying some cargo that is as yet undeclared, I don't believe take-off weight is an issue.
I promised myself I'd leave before the party turned ugly. I would quit at 1000 !
Here I am stuck at 994; each time I'm tempted to post, I find myself wondering who will even read it / what is the point?
Or maybe I've just got nothing left to say.
 
350Ops
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Dec 25, 2017 10:32 pm

Re: Algerian Military Il-76 Down Near Algiers

Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:57 pm

I don't know if this is a fake video or not, or if I'm breaking the posting rules, but this is worth debating: https://www.facebook.com/groups/cateeee ... 546485558/
 
Gatorman96
Posts: 826
Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2005 2:22 am

Re: Algerian Military Il-76 Down Near Algiers

Thu Apr 12, 2018 10:48 pm

350Ops wrote:
I don't know if this is a fake video or not, or if I'm breaking the posting rules, but this is worth debating: https://www.facebook.com/groups/cateeee ... 546485558/

No debate. This was a National Air Cargo 747-400 that crashed right after takeoff in Bagram, Afghanistan in 2015. Cargo broke free and shifted aft, greatly affected CoG, causing a stall and subsequent crash.
 
350Ops
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Dec 25, 2017 10:32 pm

Re: Algerian Military Il-76 Down Near Algiers

Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:44 pm

Thank you for the valuable input.

Gatorman96 wrote:
350Ops wrote:
I don't know if this is a fake video or not, or if I'm breaking the posting rules, but this is worth debating: https://www.facebook.com/groups/cateeee ... 546485558/

No debate. This was a National Air Cargo 747-400 that crashed right after takeoff in Bagram, Afghanistan in 2015. Cargo broke free and shifted aft, greatly affected CoG, causing a stall and subsequent crash.
 
tu204
Posts: 1650
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 12:36 am

Re: Algerian Military Il-76 Down Near Algiers

Fri Apr 13, 2018 6:54 am

You can fit 200+ people in an IL-76. Not fully equipped troops with gear, but it can be done.

Buddy of mine, ex-RuAF told me that each aircraft at its base had a container with a different cargo hold modification beside it. Wanna move wounded? No problem, open up the container and put the stretchers and what not into the hold.

Anyhow, he said there was some modification where a "second deck" would be put inside the cargo compartment. Basically divide it in two vertically.

Haven't seen it myself nor have I seen any photos.

Edit: He said it would fit 240 passengers in the "double decker option". So on the both levels you have people sitting sideways along the sides of the fusulage and also a central "bench" on both decks running the length of the fusulage.
I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
 
angad84
Posts: 1982
Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:04 pm

Re: Algerian Military Il-76 Down Near Algiers

Sat Apr 14, 2018 7:48 am

tu204 wrote:
You can fit 200+ people in an IL-76. Not fully equipped troops with gear, but it can be done.

Buddy of mine, ex-RuAF told me that each aircraft at its base had a container with a different cargo hold modification beside it. Wanna move wounded? No problem, open up the container and put the stretchers and what not into the hold.

Anyhow, he said there was some modification where a "second deck" would be put inside the cargo compartment. Basically divide it in two vertically.

Haven't seen it myself nor have I seen any photos.

Edit: He said it would fit 240 passengers in the "double decker option". So on the both levels you have people sitting sideways along the sides of the fusulage and also a central "bench" on both decks running the length of the fusulage.

Having sat on said second deck, I can confirm it exists and increased personnel carrying capacity. As you correctly point out, it's not intended for fully equipped troops. Plus, it's horribly uncomfortable!

Cheers
A
 
angad84
Posts: 1982
Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:04 pm

Re: Algerian Military Il-76 Down Near Algiers

Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:18 am

Here's the only picture I could easily find from my flight.

Image

The ladder leads up to the second deck, which is basically nothing more than two benches that run the length of the hold, with a floor between them. You sit facing each other, and the backrest is not much more than a low set plank that runs the length of the contraption. The padding you can see is entirely useless, might as well not be there.

In this aircraft the middle row of seats on the main deck was not used, but on another flight I took they were in place.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos