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alberchico
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Chinese stealth bomber design unoficially leaked ?

Sun Apr 08, 2018 11:34 pm

http://china-defense.blogspot.com/2018/ ... on-of.html

It would be a gorgeous aircraft if this is the final version but it seems way too advanced for China to design and build:

Image
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Ozair
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Re: Chinese stealth bomber design unoficially leaked ?

Mon Apr 09, 2018 12:01 am

alberchico wrote:
http://china-defense.blogspot.com/2018/04/here-it-is-first-artists-impression-of.html

It would be a gorgeous aircraft if this is the final version but it seems way too advanced for China to design and build:

While a nice looking graphic there are some obvious planform issues with the design (acknowledging it’s a rough graphic...) and the design appears more orientated towards a large fighter concept than a long range bomber. It also depends on where a new Chinese bomber fits in, as a B-6 replacement or filling a larger strategic role in the vein of a B-2 or B-52? I’d expect a new bomber coming out of China to be closer to a flying wing. I see little reason today to go supersonic on a new bomber concept given the impending advent of hypersonic missiles, which moves the speed to the weapon away from the platform. Using a flying wing derivative will maximise fuel and ordnance while minimising overall RCS.

I also don’t see either as being beyond the capability of the Chinese to build though, at least from an airframe perspective. A wholly domestic engine remains the sticking point but a subsonic bomber airframe has fewer requirements for engine performance against a fighter jet.
 
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JackMeahoff
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Re: Chinese stealth bomber design unoficially leaked ?

Mon Apr 09, 2018 2:42 am

Ozair wrote:
alberchico wrote:
http://china-defense.blogspot.com/2018/04/here-it-is-first-artists-impression-of.html

It would be a gorgeous aircraft if this is the final version but it seems way too advanced for China to design and build:

While a nice looking graphic there are some obvious planform issues with the design (acknowledging it’s a rough graphic...) and the design appears more orientated towards a large fighter concept than a long range bomber. It also depends on where a new Chinese bomber fits in, as a B-6 replacement or filling a larger strategic role in the vein of a B-2 or B-52? I’d expect a new bomber coming out of China to be closer to a flying wing. I see little reason today to go supersonic on a new bomber concept given the impending advent of hypersonic missiles, which moves the speed to the weapon away from the platform. Using a flying wing derivative will maximise fuel and ordnance while minimising overall RCS.

I also don’t see either as being beyond the capability of the Chinese to build though, at least from an airframe perspective. A wholly domestic engine remains the sticking point but a subsonic bomber airframe has fewer requirements for engine performance against a fighter jet.


When will the Chinese create their own indigenous technology for once instead of stealing it from the West?
 
VSMUT
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Re: Chinese stealth bomber design unoficially leaked ?

Mon Apr 09, 2018 11:05 am

I really don't think the Chinese are likely to unveil their new bomber in a magazine...

JackMeahoff wrote:
When will the Chinese create their own indigenous technology for once instead of stealing it from the West?


They have been creating their own indigenous technology since the 40s. Stealing or buying from other nations (and primarily the USSR/Russia BTW, not the west) was a deliberate decision in order to catch up with everyone else. If they didn't do it like that, they would still have been stuck with generations old technology today. In most cases, competing home-grown designs were put up, but it was decided that the meager resources were better spent on tried and tested designs. One such design was the Nanchang J-12, which lost out to cheaper and tested MiG-21 derivatives:

Image

The Q-5 Fantan is another great example on how they spent a minimal amount of resources to build a cheap ground attack jet. In this case they mated a MiG-19 rear fuselage and wings with a new nose section. This wasn't because they lacked the ability to do their own jet, but because they didn't have the resources to do a new project from scratch:

Image

Another point is that many designs differ quite a bit from the lack of design drawings. They only received about half the design drawings for many jets such as the MiG-21, so internally they differ quite a lot.
 
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cpd
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Re: Chinese stealth bomber design unoficially leaked ?

Mon Apr 09, 2018 11:46 am

alberchico wrote:
http://china-defense.blogspot.com/2018/04/here-it-is-first-artists-impression-of.html

It would be a gorgeous aircraft if this is the final version but it seems way too advanced for China to design and build:

Image


Where have I seen great elements of this design from before... hmmm.
 
Nicoeddf
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Re: Chinese stealth bomber design unoficially leaked ?

Tue Apr 10, 2018 9:34 am

JackMeahoff wrote:

When will the Chinese create their own indigenous technology for once instead of stealing it from the West?


What do you expect them to do? Put the Cockpit at the rear-end of the craft and the gear on top of the fuselage, just so it doesn't look similar? Physics don't change when you reach China, you know?
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BartSimpson
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Re: Chinese stealth bomber design unoficially leaked ?

Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:16 am

Nicoeddf wrote:
JackMeahoff wrote:

When will the Chinese create their own indigenous technology for once instead of stealing it from the West?


What do you expect them to do? Put the Cockpit at the rear-end of the craft and the gear on top of the fuselage, just so it doesn't look similar? Physics don't change when you reach China, you know?


Why not? The only thing they have to learn then is to fly in reverse and to land upside-down. But then again, people would accuse them to steal flying techniques from other nations.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Chinese stealth bomber design unoficially leaked ?

Tue Apr 10, 2018 11:31 am

JackMeahoff wrote:
When will the Chinese create their own indigenous technology for once instead of stealing it from the West?


While i think that cover is simply cover-art with no basis in reality, but you may want to check out how many engineers they have, and how many engineering students they have in programs.

Whatever head-start we can currently maintain, they can throw enough man-years at it to overtake in the not so distant future. Huawai has about as many engineers as Broadcom and Qualcomm combined have employees from Janitor to CEO. They don´t wait around for those R&D dwarfs coming up with something new to copy.

You´d be well advised other areas of technology they are interested in won´t look much different.

Best possible outcome is that the PRC turns democratic and fills the role of the USA without being too self-centered. They will out-GDP, out-Engineer and Out-Spend anyone that doesn´t have a billion+ labor force at its disposal within all our lifetimes. .

best regards
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mham001
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Re: Chinese stealth bomber design unoficially leaked ?

Tue Apr 10, 2018 5:37 pm

VSMUT wrote:
This wasn't because they lacked the ability to do their own jet, but because they didn't have the resources to do a new project from scratch:


Just as a point of order, wouldn't lack of resources mean they lacked the ability?


VSMUT wrote:
Another point is that many designs differ quite a bit from the lack of design drawings. They only received about half the design drawings for many jets such as the MiG-21, so internally they differ quite a lot.



Thanks for the interesting pictures but all that is child's play to the reality today.

March 24, 2016 By Pierluigi Paganini
Chinese hackers have allegedly stolen as much as 50 terabytes of data from the US Defense contractors, including the details of the fighter’s radar systems, engine schematics, “aft deck heating contour maps,” designs to cool exhaust gasses and the method the jet uses to track targets.

The purpose of the Chinese Government is to acquire intellectual property on advanced technologies, benefiting Chinese companies on the market and narrowed the gap in the research of advanced technological solution. Military experts speculated that the stolen blueprints could help the country to develop a new generation of advanced aircraft fighter, so-called “fifth-generation” fighters.

https://securityaffairs.co/wordpress/45 ... ctors.html
 
VSMUT
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Re: Chinese stealth bomber design unoficially leaked ?

Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:10 pm

mham001 wrote:
VSMUT wrote:
This wasn't because they lacked the ability to do their own jet, but because they didn't have the resources to do a new project from scratch:


Just as a point of order, wouldn't lack of resources mean they lacked the ability?


Or maybe the finite resources were needed in other areas, rather than just pouring them all into the military-industrial complex in true American style? Roads, railways, dams, ports, airports, factories, housing, powerplants etc. doesn't build itself, and in a communist country, the state is responsible for building those. They came out of WWII and the civil war with a completely devastated country, and pre-WWII China was much less industrialized than any of the other major players. They had much more ground to cover in all areas. They didn't get marshall aid either, and faced a constant threat of US-Taiwanese aggression at the same time. From 1960 they even had to fight the Soviets.
 
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Tugger
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Re: Chinese stealth bomber design unoficially leaked ?

Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:36 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
They will out-GDP, out-Engineer and Out-Spend anyone that doesn´t have a billion+ labor force at its disposal within all our lifetimes. .

Unlikely.

The biggest problem the Chinese have is that success must be "Chinese", leaders must be Chinese, corporations must be Chinese, products must often be Chinese (or they drive to develop Chinese variants to replace). This is a major failure point for any nation if they disallow the best and brightest from achieving the top echelons in society. Yes prejudice of all types are at play in most any country but in China it is extreme.

Tugg
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Sooner787
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Re: Chinese stealth bomber design unoficially leaked ?

Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:15 pm

cpd wrote:
alberchico wrote:
http://china-defense.blogspot.com/2018/04/here-it-is-first-artists-impression-of.html

It would be a gorgeous aircraft if this is the final version but it seems way too advanced for China to design and build:

Image


Where have I seen great elements of this design from before... hmmm.


If imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, the Northrop Grumman YF-23 team
must be purple with praise :)
 
Ozair
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Re: Chinese stealth bomber design unoficially leaked ?

Wed Apr 11, 2018 10:17 pm

A couple of new articles have surfaced on the Chinese bomber concept; apparently some are alleging it looks similar to an aircraft from the Ace Combat 3 game...

China's New Stealth Bombers to Carry More Deterrent Power

Chinese military magazine Aerospace Knowledge recently sighted the H-20, the new generation of Chinese bomber aircraft, which was confirmed by experts to be a stealth aircraft and also more powerful as it could be equipped with nuclear and conventional weapons.

China's new generation H-20 has been under development by the Shanghai Aircraft Design and Research Institute since 2008, reported Russian media rg.ru on Monday, saying the research is highly confidential in China and no details had previously been leaked.

China needs long-range advanced bombers that can carry up to 10 tons of weapons without aerial refueling, an unnamed military expert was quoted by the report as saying.

"The new generation of bombers can carry more bombs than the H-6K bombers, has the advantage of stealth features, and is able to strike targets from standoff ranges," Song Zhongping, a military expert and TV commentator, told the Global Times on Tuesday.

Song said that China has made technological breakthroughs in its new generation of aircraft and also possesses proprietary technology, while stressing that "the new generation of bombers should be high-tech aircraft."

"The new generation will be released in two years and enlist in the army within four to five years," Song said.

"The exposure indicated that the technology has entered its mature stage," Song noted.

The expert believed that the bomber is now even able to conduct test flights.

The H-20 could improve the air force in both defensive and offensive capabilities, which will "enable the army to possess stronger nuclear and conventional deterrence," Song said.

http://www.defense-aerospace.com/articl ... power.html


Popular mechanics also has some info including a better render of the concept. https://www.popularmechanics.com/milita ... er-render/
 
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Faro
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Re: Chinese stealth bomber design unoficially leaked ?

Fri Apr 13, 2018 7:31 am

Funny how popular the general YF-23 has become...


Faro
The chalice not my son
 
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neutrino
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Re: Chinese stealth bomber design unoficially leaked ?

Tue Apr 17, 2018 3:25 pm

JackMeahoff wrote:
When will the Chinese create their own indigenous technology for once instead of stealing it from the West?

Been there done that, multiple times over.
Paper making, printing, gunpowder, magnetic compass and lots more. Who do you think are the originators?
The Middle Kingdom was the leading force in science & technology till the west's Industrial Revolution.
Let Joseph Needham educate you.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_and_Civilisation_in_China
Also; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Chinese_inventions

Then the Dragon fell into a deep slumber from which it has recently reawakened.
It has started to catch up, and in some areas have already surpassed the rest of the world.
Just one example:
https://sputniknews.com/science/201803101062401247-china-anounces-6g-network/
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-03-13/how-china-s-huawei-killed-117-billion-broadcom-deal-quicktake
And for your info, from the latter article, "With 2017 sales of about 600 billion yuan ($95 billion), Huawei generates more revenue than Home Depot or Boeing --"
Potestatem obscuri lateris nescitis
 
LightningZ71
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Re: Chinese stealth bomber design unoficially leaked ?

Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:36 pm

China is quickly growing their economy into a juggernaut on the scale of the US in the final years of the cold war. They are very well vertically integrated across the board, having to import very little, and what they do need to import, they are rapidly taking ownership of every link in the chain. It won't be long before their ability to take unilateral action on a global basis is unhindered by their own capabilities. The West has allowed this to happen through their own desire to earn as much margin as possible on every manufactured good, effectively spending the money to rapidly industrialize China in the process. Now it faces the fact that China will soon be able to dictate terms on all of their deals and will be able to choose not to involve themselves in any foreign market that is not favorable to them.

The only way that this doesn't end in China doing to the world what the US has been accused of doing to the world over the last few decades is if the rest of the world realizes what's happening and figures out a way to work together for their own common interests.
 
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keesje
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Re: Chinese stealth bomber design unoficially leaked ?

Wed Apr 18, 2018 12:56 pm

JackMeahoff wrote:

When will the Chinese create their own indigenous technology for once instead of stealing it from the West?


Yes, it's all exact copies of a .. well it is anyway!

Image

Image

I think the OP configuartion has been swarming around for some time.

Image
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