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alberchico
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Chinese stealth bomber design unoficially leaked ?

Sun Apr 08, 2018 11:34 pm

http://china-defense.blogspot.com/2018/ ... on-of.html

It would be a gorgeous aircraft if this is the final version but it seems way too advanced for China to design and build:

Image
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Ozair
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Re: Chinese stealth bomber design unoficially leaked ?

Mon Apr 09, 2018 12:01 am

alberchico wrote:
http://china-defense.blogspot.com/2018/04/here-it-is-first-artists-impression-of.html

It would be a gorgeous aircraft if this is the final version but it seems way too advanced for China to design and build:

While a nice looking graphic there are some obvious planform issues with the design (acknowledging it’s a rough graphic...) and the design appears more orientated towards a large fighter concept than a long range bomber. It also depends on where a new Chinese bomber fits in, as a B-6 replacement or filling a larger strategic role in the vein of a B-2 or B-52? I’d expect a new bomber coming out of China to be closer to a flying wing. I see little reason today to go supersonic on a new bomber concept given the impending advent of hypersonic missiles, which moves the speed to the weapon away from the platform. Using a flying wing derivative will maximise fuel and ordnance while minimising overall RCS.

I also don’t see either as being beyond the capability of the Chinese to build though, at least from an airframe perspective. A wholly domestic engine remains the sticking point but a subsonic bomber airframe has fewer requirements for engine performance against a fighter jet.
 
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JackMeahoff
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Re: Chinese stealth bomber design unoficially leaked ?

Mon Apr 09, 2018 2:42 am

Ozair wrote:
alberchico wrote:
http://china-defense.blogspot.com/2018/04/here-it-is-first-artists-impression-of.html

It would be a gorgeous aircraft if this is the final version but it seems way too advanced for China to design and build:

While a nice looking graphic there are some obvious planform issues with the design (acknowledging it’s a rough graphic...) and the design appears more orientated towards a large fighter concept than a long range bomber. It also depends on where a new Chinese bomber fits in, as a B-6 replacement or filling a larger strategic role in the vein of a B-2 or B-52? I’d expect a new bomber coming out of China to be closer to a flying wing. I see little reason today to go supersonic on a new bomber concept given the impending advent of hypersonic missiles, which moves the speed to the weapon away from the platform. Using a flying wing derivative will maximise fuel and ordnance while minimising overall RCS.

I also don’t see either as being beyond the capability of the Chinese to build though, at least from an airframe perspective. A wholly domestic engine remains the sticking point but a subsonic bomber airframe has fewer requirements for engine performance against a fighter jet.


When will the Chinese create their own indigenous technology for once instead of stealing it from the West?
 
VSMUT
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Re: Chinese stealth bomber design unoficially leaked ?

Mon Apr 09, 2018 11:05 am

I really don't think the Chinese are likely to unveil their new bomber in a magazine...

JackMeahoff wrote:
When will the Chinese create their own indigenous technology for once instead of stealing it from the West?


They have been creating their own indigenous technology since the 40s. Stealing or buying from other nations (and primarily the USSR/Russia BTW, not the west) was a deliberate decision in order to catch up with everyone else. If they didn't do it like that, they would still have been stuck with generations old technology today. In most cases, competing home-grown designs were put up, but it was decided that the meager resources were better spent on tried and tested designs. One such design was the Nanchang J-12, which lost out to cheaper and tested MiG-21 derivatives:

Image

The Q-5 Fantan is another great example on how they spent a minimal amount of resources to build a cheap ground attack jet. In this case they mated a MiG-19 rear fuselage and wings with a new nose section. This wasn't because they lacked the ability to do their own jet, but because they didn't have the resources to do a new project from scratch:

Image

Another point is that many designs differ quite a bit from the lack of design drawings. They only received about half the design drawings for many jets such as the MiG-21, so internally they differ quite a lot.
 
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Re: Chinese stealth bomber design unoficially leaked ?

Mon Apr 09, 2018 11:46 am

alberchico wrote:
http://china-defense.blogspot.com/2018/04/here-it-is-first-artists-impression-of.html

It would be a gorgeous aircraft if this is the final version but it seems way too advanced for China to design and build:

Image


Where have I seen great elements of this design from before... hmmm.
 
Nicoeddf
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Re: Chinese stealth bomber design unoficially leaked ?

Tue Apr 10, 2018 9:34 am

JackMeahoff wrote:

When will the Chinese create their own indigenous technology for once instead of stealing it from the West?


What do you expect them to do? Put the Cockpit at the rear-end of the craft and the gear on top of the fuselage, just so it doesn't look similar? Physics don't change when you reach China, you know?
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Re: Chinese stealth bomber design unoficially leaked ?

Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:16 am

Nicoeddf wrote:
JackMeahoff wrote:

When will the Chinese create their own indigenous technology for once instead of stealing it from the West?


What do you expect them to do? Put the Cockpit at the rear-end of the craft and the gear on top of the fuselage, just so it doesn't look similar? Physics don't change when you reach China, you know?


Why not? The only thing they have to learn then is to fly in reverse and to land upside-down. But then again, people would accuse them to steal flying techniques from other nations.
 
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Re: Chinese stealth bomber design unoficially leaked ?

Tue Apr 10, 2018 11:31 am

JackMeahoff wrote:
When will the Chinese create their own indigenous technology for once instead of stealing it from the West?


While i think that cover is simply cover-art with no basis in reality, but you may want to check out how many engineers they have, and how many engineering students they have in programs.

Whatever head-start we can currently maintain, they can throw enough man-years at it to overtake in the not so distant future. Huawai has about as many engineers as Broadcom and Qualcomm combined have employees from Janitor to CEO. They don´t wait around for those R&D dwarfs coming up with something new to copy.

You´d be well advised other areas of technology they are interested in won´t look much different.

Best possible outcome is that the PRC turns democratic and fills the role of the USA without being too self-centered. They will out-GDP, out-Engineer and Out-Spend anyone that doesn´t have a billion+ labor force at its disposal within all our lifetimes. .

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mham001
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Re: Chinese stealth bomber design unoficially leaked ?

Tue Apr 10, 2018 5:37 pm

VSMUT wrote:
This wasn't because they lacked the ability to do their own jet, but because they didn't have the resources to do a new project from scratch:


Just as a point of order, wouldn't lack of resources mean they lacked the ability?


VSMUT wrote:
Another point is that many designs differ quite a bit from the lack of design drawings. They only received about half the design drawings for many jets such as the MiG-21, so internally they differ quite a lot.



Thanks for the interesting pictures but all that is child's play to the reality today.

March 24, 2016 By Pierluigi Paganini
Chinese hackers have allegedly stolen as much as 50 terabytes of data from the US Defense contractors, including the details of the fighter’s radar systems, engine schematics, “aft deck heating contour maps,” designs to cool exhaust gasses and the method the jet uses to track targets.

The purpose of the Chinese Government is to acquire intellectual property on advanced technologies, benefiting Chinese companies on the market and narrowed the gap in the research of advanced technological solution. Military experts speculated that the stolen blueprints could help the country to develop a new generation of advanced aircraft fighter, so-called “fifth-generation” fighters.

https://securityaffairs.co/wordpress/45 ... ctors.html
 
VSMUT
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Re: Chinese stealth bomber design unoficially leaked ?

Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:10 pm

mham001 wrote:
VSMUT wrote:
This wasn't because they lacked the ability to do their own jet, but because they didn't have the resources to do a new project from scratch:


Just as a point of order, wouldn't lack of resources mean they lacked the ability?


Or maybe the finite resources were needed in other areas, rather than just pouring them all into the military-industrial complex in true American style? Roads, railways, dams, ports, airports, factories, housing, powerplants etc. doesn't build itself, and in a communist country, the state is responsible for building those. They came out of WWII and the civil war with a completely devastated country, and pre-WWII China was much less industrialized than any of the other major players. They had much more ground to cover in all areas. They didn't get marshall aid either, and faced a constant threat of US-Taiwanese aggression at the same time. From 1960 they even had to fight the Soviets.
 
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Re: Chinese stealth bomber design unoficially leaked ?

Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:36 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
They will out-GDP, out-Engineer and Out-Spend anyone that doesn´t have a billion+ labor force at its disposal within all our lifetimes. .

Unlikely.

The biggest problem the Chinese have is that success must be "Chinese", leaders must be Chinese, corporations must be Chinese, products must often be Chinese (or they drive to develop Chinese variants to replace). This is a major failure point for any nation if they disallow the best and brightest from achieving the top echelons in society. Yes prejudice of all types are at play in most any country but in China it is extreme.

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Sooner787
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Re: Chinese stealth bomber design unoficially leaked ?

Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:15 pm

cpd wrote:
alberchico wrote:
http://china-defense.blogspot.com/2018/04/here-it-is-first-artists-impression-of.html

It would be a gorgeous aircraft if this is the final version but it seems way too advanced for China to design and build:

Image


Where have I seen great elements of this design from before... hmmm.


If imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, the Northrop Grumman YF-23 team
must be purple with praise :)
 
Ozair
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Re: Chinese stealth bomber design unoficially leaked ?

Wed Apr 11, 2018 10:17 pm

A couple of new articles have surfaced on the Chinese bomber concept; apparently some are alleging it looks similar to an aircraft from the Ace Combat 3 game...

China's New Stealth Bombers to Carry More Deterrent Power

Chinese military magazine Aerospace Knowledge recently sighted the H-20, the new generation of Chinese bomber aircraft, which was confirmed by experts to be a stealth aircraft and also more powerful as it could be equipped with nuclear and conventional weapons.

China's new generation H-20 has been under development by the Shanghai Aircraft Design and Research Institute since 2008, reported Russian media rg.ru on Monday, saying the research is highly confidential in China and no details had previously been leaked.

China needs long-range advanced bombers that can carry up to 10 tons of weapons without aerial refueling, an unnamed military expert was quoted by the report as saying.

"The new generation of bombers can carry more bombs than the H-6K bombers, has the advantage of stealth features, and is able to strike targets from standoff ranges," Song Zhongping, a military expert and TV commentator, told the Global Times on Tuesday.

Song said that China has made technological breakthroughs in its new generation of aircraft and also possesses proprietary technology, while stressing that "the new generation of bombers should be high-tech aircraft."

"The new generation will be released in two years and enlist in the army within four to five years," Song said.

"The exposure indicated that the technology has entered its mature stage," Song noted.

The expert believed that the bomber is now even able to conduct test flights.

The H-20 could improve the air force in both defensive and offensive capabilities, which will "enable the army to possess stronger nuclear and conventional deterrence," Song said.

http://www.defense-aerospace.com/articl ... power.html


Popular mechanics also has some info including a better render of the concept. https://www.popularmechanics.com/milita ... er-render/
 
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Faro
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Re: Chinese stealth bomber design unoficially leaked ?

Fri Apr 13, 2018 7:31 am

Funny how popular the general YF-23 has become...


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neutrino
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Re: Chinese stealth bomber design unoficially leaked ?

Tue Apr 17, 2018 3:25 pm

JackMeahoff wrote:
When will the Chinese create their own indigenous technology for once instead of stealing it from the West?

Been there done that, multiple times over.
Paper making, printing, gunpowder, magnetic compass and lots more. Who do you think are the originators?
The Middle Kingdom was the leading force in science & technology till the west's Industrial Revolution.
Let Joseph Needham educate you.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_and_Civilisation_in_China
Also; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Chinese_inventions

Then the Dragon fell into a deep slumber from which it has recently reawakened.
It has started to catch up, and in some areas have already surpassed the rest of the world.
Just one example:
https://sputniknews.com/science/201803101062401247-china-anounces-6g-network/
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-03-13/how-china-s-huawei-killed-117-billion-broadcom-deal-quicktake
And for your info, from the latter article, "With 2017 sales of about 600 billion yuan ($95 billion), Huawei generates more revenue than Home Depot or Boeing --"
Potestatem obscuri lateris nescitis
 
LightningZ71
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Re: Chinese stealth bomber design unoficially leaked ?

Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:36 pm

China is quickly growing their economy into a juggernaut on the scale of the US in the final years of the cold war. They are very well vertically integrated across the board, having to import very little, and what they do need to import, they are rapidly taking ownership of every link in the chain. It won't be long before their ability to take unilateral action on a global basis is unhindered by their own capabilities. The West has allowed this to happen through their own desire to earn as much margin as possible on every manufactured good, effectively spending the money to rapidly industrialize China in the process. Now it faces the fact that China will soon be able to dictate terms on all of their deals and will be able to choose not to involve themselves in any foreign market that is not favorable to them.

The only way that this doesn't end in China doing to the world what the US has been accused of doing to the world over the last few decades is if the rest of the world realizes what's happening and figures out a way to work together for their own common interests.
 
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keesje
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Re: Chinese stealth bomber design unoficially leaked ?

Wed Apr 18, 2018 12:56 pm

JackMeahoff wrote:

When will the Chinese create their own indigenous technology for once instead of stealing it from the West?


Yes, it's all exact copies of a .. well it is anyway!

Image

Image

I think the OP configuartion has been swarming around for some time.

Image
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Raptormodeller
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Re: Chinese stealth bomber design unoficially leaked ?

Tue Apr 24, 2018 10:01 am

Looks like they took the YF-23 and F-111 and let them mate. Nice result.
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RJMAZ
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Re: Chinese stealth bomber design unoficially leaked ?

Tue Apr 24, 2018 12:02 pm

This design makes no sense. The intakes above the chines means this aircraft will have severely limited agility. The tail, wings and chines point to high agility. They are both incompatible design features so this is definitely fake.
 
meecrob
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Re: Chinese stealth bomber design unoficially leaked ?

Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:59 pm

RJMAZ wrote:
This design makes no sense. The intakes above the chines means this aircraft will have severely limited agility. The tail, wings and chines point to high agility. They are both incompatible design features so this is definitely fake.


My thoughts exactly. The Chinese might be a few years behind the west in aircraft design, but clearly they are not inept enough to design a plane with "shoulder" intakes. I think these pics are just media pieces to create discussion about how their industrial capacity has been improving. I bet my life savings the real plane will look nothing like this.

Edited to add: anyone remember the Revell F-19 kits?
 
Arniepie
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Re: Chinese stealth bomber design unoficially leaked ?

Fri Apr 27, 2018 8:29 am

keesje wrote:
JackMeahoff wrote:

When will the Chinese create their own indigenous technology for once instead of stealing it from the West?


Yes, it's all exact copies of a .. well it is anyway!

Image


Well the J20 is nothing more than the Russian designed Mig39 project with a blended body and some stealthifying changes, most notably the engine
inlets.

As for the other Planes you mentioned ,not a single one isn't a clear rip off of some existing design.
I won't put it past them to come up with a homegrown Chinese designed and manufactured aircraft (and most important subsystems like engines , avionics, etc...) somewhere in the future, but for now they are not there just yet.
[edit post]
 
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keesje
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Re: Chinese stealth bomber design unoficially leaked ?

Fri Apr 27, 2018 11:19 am

Arniepie wrote:
keesje wrote:
JackMeahoff wrote:

When will the Chinese create their own indigenous technology for once instead of stealing it from the West?


Yes, it's all exact copies of a .. well it is anyway!

Image


Well the J20 is nothing more than the Russian designed Mig39 project with a blended body and some stealthifying changes, most notably the engine inlets.


And you think developing an aircraft works like that? :eyebrow: Then you are probably one of the school feeling the tu-144 was a Concorde copy and the F15 a MIG25 copy..

..FGS not the F15.. :scared:
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
PC12Fan
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Re: Chinese stealth bomber design unoficially leaked ?

Sun Apr 29, 2018 3:05 am

For all we know, they just gained access to old pics of what eventually evolved into the ya-23 since it’s initial development was to be a bomber platform anyways.

God I’d love to see the 23 fly again
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VSMUT
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Re: Chinese stealth bomber design unoficially leaked ?

Sun Apr 29, 2018 4:14 am

RJMAZ wrote:
This design makes no sense. The intakes above the chines means this aircraft will have severely limited agility. The tail, wings and chines point to high agility. They are both incompatible design features so this is definitely fake.


meecrob wrote:
RJMAZ wrote:
This design makes no sense. The intakes above the chines means this aircraft will have severely limited agility. The tail, wings and chines point to high agility. They are both incompatible design features so this is definitely fake.


My thoughts exactly. The Chinese might be a few years behind the west in aircraft design, but clearly they are not inept enough to design a plane with "shoulder" intakes. I think these pics are just media pieces to create discussion about how their industrial capacity has been improving. I bet my life savings the real plane will look nothing like this.


It's a bomber, agility would probably not be high on the list of requirements. The B-2 and F-117 both feature shoulder intakes for stealth reasons (and the B-21 too). It's not horribly far fetched that a Chinese design team would reach the same conclusion, considering that the roles would probably be very similar.

But I would personally join the bet that this isn't anywhere near what the real thing will look like. I'm guessing a flying wing design.

Arniepie wrote:
Well the J20 is nothing more than the Russian designed Mig39 project with a blended body and some stealthifying changes, most notably the engine
inlets.


Because as we all know, blending a body, stealthifying an aircraft and fitting an entirely new air intake is just a "quick and easy thing to do"... :lol:

keesje wrote:
Then you are probably one of the school feeling the tu-144 was a Concorde copy and the F15 a MIG25 copy..


And the J-10 is a copy of the F-16 because the fin root is vaguely similar, and also a copy of the Lavi because they share the same basic configuration but are otherwise completely different aircraft in every way... :duck:
 
WIederling
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Re: Chinese stealth bomber design unoficially leaked ?

Sun Apr 29, 2018 8:53 am

Anybody thought about the Chinese posting these pictures to get
the "global know it all force" to point out all the errors and providing fixes?
:-)
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Ozair
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Re: Chinese stealth bomber design unoficially leaked ?

Thu May 10, 2018 9:51 pm

I'm not sure whether this qualifies as trolling or imitation...

China might have teased its H-20 stealth bomber by trolling the US — here's what we know about it

China may have released a video teaser of its H-20 stealth bomber and trolled the US's stealth bombers in the process, according to The Drive.

China's state-run aviation and defense company, Aviation Industry Corporation of China, recently posted a video celebrating the 60th anniversary of the founding of Xi'an Aircraft Industrial Corporation, a subsidiary of AVIC, The Drive reported.

The video, which China Daily tweeted, ends with a shadowy wide shot of bomber-looking aircraft covered in a sheet with text reading "The Next" appearing on the screen.

The shot looks eerily similar to a Northrop Grumman advertisement of the B-21 Raider, which ran during the 2015 Super Bowl, The Drive reported, adding that China Defense Online may have also added the ending itself. As such, it's unclear if it's legit.

Still, China has been in search of a long-range bomber.

In 2015, Chinese defense experts said China needed to develop a long-range bomber that could strike targets far from its coast, AFP reported at the time.

Then in 2016, General Ma Xiaotian, a PLA Air Force commander, said China was researching the development of such a bomber, according to Popular Science.

The Drive also reported that conception of the H-20 may have even come before that, citing Airforce Monthly as saying that XAC had built small models of it, but in 2011, the program came to a halt.

In any event, the Pentagon confirmed in 2017 report that China was "developing a strategic bomber that officials expect to have a nuclear mission," also noting that "[past] PLA writings expressed the need to develop a 'stealth strategic bomber,' suggesting aspirations to field a strategic bomber with a nuclear delivery capability."

To that end, the H-20 needs to be capable of carrying a 10 ton payload and have a range of 5,000 miles, The Drive reported.

Popular Science reported that the H-20, in order to strike different continents, needs a 6,200 mile range and carry a 10-20 ton payload, which would most likely require four WS-10 turbofan engines.

Whatever the specifications would be, a researcher working with the US Air Force told Business Insider that the H-20 is a four engine stealth bomber and that the details have not been "revealed except it is to have a dual [nuclear and conventional] role."

The researcher also said that China has built three static H-20 airframes without electronics and engines.

The Drive reported that the H-20's main weapon would probably be KD-20 cruise missiles, and Popular Science reported that it would carry the KD-20s in its internal weapons bays.

The H-20 might eventually even carry "GB-6A stealth cruise missiles and hypersonic scramjet missiles," and act as a command and control aircraft, Popular Science reported.

The "deployment and integration" of a nuclear bomber "would provide China with its first credible nuclear 'triad' of delivery systems dispersed across land, sea, and air," the 2017 Pentagon report on China's military said.

http://nordic.businessinsider.com/china ... ?r=US&IR=T


Image

Obviously different to the design at the start of the thread and appears, if real, to be a flying wing as I suggested in reply #1.
 
wingman
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Re: Chinese stealth bomber design unoficially leaked ?

Thu May 10, 2018 11:32 pm

Well, I guess I'd opt for 21 actual stealth bombers already nearing their replacement cycle and being replaced by a next generation stealth bomber over a troll photo. One of them is bound to produce better results if ever required.
 
Alfons
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Re: Chinese stealth bomber design unoficially leaked ?

Fri May 11, 2018 10:02 am

Funny. In the picture above, the sides are mirrored. You just see the half.
 
Ozair
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Re: Chinese stealth bomber design unoficially leaked ?

Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:55 pm

Some additional info has been published on the much hyped and expected new Chinese Bomber. It is probably a bit early for an actual graphic of the aircraft being released but going by the time it has taken to test the J-20 we'd be looking at somewhere between 6-8 years for the aircraft to enter service.

China's Hong-20 stealth bomber trial flight expected very soon

The trial flight of China's new-generation stealth bomber Hong-20 may take place soon, military experts said on Tuesday after China's official television station confirmed the name of the bomber. Disclosing the new bomber is a potential deterrence, Song Zhongping, a military expert and TV commentator, told the Global Times on Tuesday.

"Usually the development of equipment and weaponry of the People's Liberation Army is highly confidential," he said.

Revealing the bomber name before trials shows the Chinese aviation industry is gaining more confidence, said Shanghai-based news site thepaper.cn.

China Central Television confirmed in a documentary in August that "the development of new long-distance strategic bomber, Hong-20, has made great progress."

It was the first time "Hong-20" appeared officially. "Hong" is the first character of hongzhaji, "bomber aircraft" in Chinese.

Song said the public unveiling of the bomber suggested that it might have finished testing the hydraulic pressure, electricity supply and avionics systems.

"The trial flight will come soon," he said.

China's Hong-20 bomber has been under development at the Shanghai Aircraft Design and Research Institute since 2008, Russian newspaper Rossiyskaya Gazeta previously reported.

"The new generation of bombers can carry more bombs than previous H-6K bombers, have the advantage of stealth features and are able to strike targets from standoff ranges," Song said in a previous interview in April.

The Hong-20 could improve both defensive and offensive air force capabilities and "enable the army to possess stronger nuclear and conventional deterrence," Song said.

http://www.airrecognition.com/index.php ... -soon.html

A concept aircraft looking strikingly like US concepts.

Image
 
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Re: Chinese stealth bomber design unoficially leaked ?

Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:41 pm

I wonder if China's push to publicly field hypersonic weapons and stealth aircraft would motivate the US to take the cloak off of some of their non-ISR black projects.
 
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Re: Chinese stealth bomber design unoficially leaked ?

Thu Oct 11, 2018 3:32 am

Ozair wrote:
A concept aircraft looking strikingly like US concepts.

Image

Oz, I expect better! The pic is a "concept" it is not the actual design or aircraft. Concepts in the media follow the "most believable" which means "what everyone expects/accepts". The reality... well we have no idea what the reality is. And that is the question.

Tugg
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Re: Chinese stealth bomber design unoficially leaked ?

Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:33 pm

I would like to note, designs can converge when you have similar requirements.

Ben Rich told a story in his book, "Skunk Works"

I'm paraphrasing a little bit, but basically it goes like this: He had a meeting with a high level DOD/Pentagon official (Possibly secretary of defense?) at his Lockheed Skunk Works office. Upon entering the office the official immediately exclaimed, "Wait how did you get Northrop drawings???" Pointing at the drawings on Rich's desk. He immediately realized the mistake he had made as he saw the puzzled look on Ben's face. Ben Rich goes on to explain in his book, again paraphrasing, that it was at that point that he knew that stealth designs more or less all converged. That the requirements presented meant there was really only one way to achieve it.

The rest is history, Northrop won the contract for the B-2 and it's what we see flying today. The designs both companies produced weren't much different it turns out.

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Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos