Ozair
Posts: 2362
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 8:38 am

Re: F-22s in Syria

Wed Dec 27, 2017 12:45 am

checksixx wrote:
Ozair wrote:
As for the Russians detecting it, we don't know how the USAF are running ops over there and whether they have equipped the F-22 for full stealth. The F-22, and the F-35, can be fitted with a Lundberg lens that amplifies its RCS significantly denying an accurate RCS measurement.


Don't be silly, of course we do...they're flying with luneberg lenses fitted. That's how you spell it btw...

Great, do you have some confirmation of that? Say an official statement or image showing?
 
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Balerit
Posts: 518
Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2015 9:14 am

Re: F-22s in Syria

Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:29 am

Ozair wrote:
checksixx wrote:
Ozair wrote:
No actually they don't. Neither the Su-27, the MiG-29 or the Su-30 in their initial variants had AAR probes fitted but many export Flankers and Fulcrums had AAR fitted. This has changed with new build Su-27/30/35 for the Russian Air Force, Su-27SKM upgrade, MiG-29SMT. MiG-31 had AAR from the start, MiG-25 didn't, Su-24 only had AAR added with the M version.

Russia also lack a decent sized fleet of AAR tankers and a tanker variant of the IL-476 is high on the priority list.


Yes, actually they do. You want to go back 20 years, by all means go ahead. They've had probes for many years now.

Happy to be corrected. As I indicated above all the new build flankers, 30/35 have such. Only the new MiG-29 SMT have AAR but none of the older fleet. I have my doubts on upgraded Su-27 though.


Not sure where you are getting your info from:

Since the late 1980s, in-flight refueling capabilities were built into all newly developed tactical aircraft, including the Su-24M, MiG-29, MiG-31, the Su-27 series, some MiG-25 models, and the heavy Tu-95MS, Tu-160, A-50, and Il-80 aircraft. New tankers were also developed, including fighter-tankers, as well as the new hope for Russian strategic aviation, a modified Il-78M.
Licensed Aircraft Maintenance Engineer (retired).
 
Ozair
Posts: 2362
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 8:38 am

Re: F-22s in Syria

Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:57 am

Balerit wrote:

Not sure where you are getting your info from:

Since the late 1980s, in-flight refueling capabilities were built into all newly developed tactical aircraft, including the Su-24M, MiG-29, MiG-31, the Su-27 series, some MiG-25 models, and the heavy Tu-95MS, Tu-160, A-50, and Il-80 aircraft. New tankers were also developed, including fighter-tankers, as well as the new hope for Russian strategic aviation, a modified Il-78M.


MiG-29SMT was the first standard MiG-29 to get AAR, tested in 1995. SMT only entered Russian service with the rejected Algerian models.
flight refuelling trials on standard MiG-29 test aircraft began 16 November 1995, completed January 1996

http://toad-design.com/migalley/index.p ... -variants/

Su-27 didn't get AAR until the SMK (or SKM) variant and wasn't even tested until 1995.
One prototype converted by KnAAPO in 1995 from Su-27SK fitting the IFR probe.

https://www.milavia.net/aircraft/su-27/ ... riants.htm

Wasn't put into Russian service until the mid 2000s.

I already stated MiG-31 had it from the start, as did the Su-24M upgrade. No MiG-25 has AAR as far as I am aware. Not sure why you are referencing bombers and transport aircraft.
 
WIederling
Posts: 5899
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:15 pm

Re: F-22s in Syria

Thu Dec 28, 2017 2:08 pm

Ozair wrote:
checksixx wrote:
Ozair wrote:
.... can be fitted with a Lundberg lens that amplifies its RCS significantly denying an accurate RCS measurement.

Don't be silly, of course we do...they're flying with Luneberg lenses fitted. That's how you spell it btw...

Great, do you have some confirmation of that? Say an official statement or image showing?


Luneburg
The guy who invented this gradient refractive-index type lens was one Rudolf Karl Lüneburg .
Obviously no worthy Anglo Saxon gets the Umlaut stuff right. :-)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luneburg_lens
Murphy is an optimist
 
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Balerit
Posts: 518
Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2015 9:14 am

Re: F-22s in Syria

Thu Dec 28, 2017 2:08 pm

My reference was from here:

http://rostec.ru/en/news/4514547
Licensed Aircraft Maintenance Engineer (retired).
 
virage
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2010 11:59 am

Re: F-22s in Syria

Sat Jan 06, 2018 1:14 am

duplicate.
 
salttee
Topic Author
Posts: 2121
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2016 3:26 am

Re: F-22s in Syria

Sat Jan 06, 2018 4:43 pm

I'm not the only person who thinks the idea of showing off F-22s was a foolish choice of action.

"The skies over Iraq and specifically Syria have really just been a treasure trove for them to see how we operate," Lt. Gen. VeraLinn "Dash" Jamieson said at an Air Force Association briefing

"Our adversaries are watching us — they're learning from us," said Jamieson, adding that Russia's air force cycled most forces through Syria to give them real-world combat experience.

http://www.businessinsider.com/russia-t ... -22-2018-1
 
estorilm
Posts: 223
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2009 3:07 am

Re: F-22s in Syria

Tue Jan 16, 2018 5:08 pm

salttee wrote:
I'm not the only person who thinks the idea of showing off F-22s was a foolish choice of action.

"The skies over Iraq and specifically Syria have really just been a treasure trove for them to see how we operate," Lt. Gen. VeraLinn "Dash" Jamieson said at an Air Force Association briefing

"Our adversaries are watching us — they're learning from us," said Jamieson, adding that Russia's air force cycled most forces through Syria to give them real-world combat experience.

http://www.businessinsider.com/russia-t ... -22-2018-1

I agree to a certain extent - but how valuable is this data, really? Even if they sell it to the Ruskies?

As it stands - these areas (on their own, with their current equipment) can only look up at the sky and scratch their heads. Any 4th generation fighter (along with similar advanced tactics and training, weapons, avionics/sensors, etc) will enjoy a huge advantage. I understand that's kinda exactly your point (that the 5th gen deployment is pointless) however an inability to even confront a 4th gen fighter begs the question of what's to loose exactly? It's not like they can modify their tactics or weapons systems to confidently engage the F-22, at least with whatever they MAY be learning as these things fly overhead.

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