VSMUT wrote:

It looks like the Netherlands is the latest country to find itself in a crunch with the constantly increasing price tag of the F-35. A decision is to be made in 2019:

https://nltimes.nl/2017/11/30/dutch-gov ... ghter-jets

Due to the high dollar rate, the Ministry of Defense may not have enough money to buy the last three of the 37 Joint Strike Fighter jets the government plans to purchase, State Secretary Barbara Visser of Defense wrote in a letter to the Tweede Kamer, the lower house of Dutch parliament

Ozair wrote:

VSMUT did you read the article you quoted? It clearly says the reason for any potential inability to afford the F-35 is because of currency fluctuations.

Dutchy wrote:

suppose to be because of the exchange rate with the Dollar, even though much of the Euro F-35's are made in the Euro zone.

Ozair wrote:

VSMUT wrote:

It looks like the Netherlands is the latest country to find itself in a crunch with the constantly increasing price tag of the F-35. A decision is to be made in 2019:

https://nltimes.nl/2017/11/30/dutch-gov ... ghter-jets

VSMUT did you read the article you quoted? It clearly says the reason for any potential inability to afford the F-35 is because of currency fluctuations.

Due to the high dollar rate, the Ministry of Defense may not have enough money to buy the last three of the 37 Joint Strike Fighter jets the government plans to purchase, State Secretary Barbara Visser of Defense wrote in a letter to the Tweede Kamer, the lower house of Dutch parliament

As for the price increases to the F-35, the facts present a different story.

Slug71 wrote:

Isn't that the cost without engines or support costs though?
At least that's what i remember hearing.

Ozair wrote:

As for the price increases to the F-35, the facts present a different story.
https://www.ainonline.com/sites/default ... ts-web.jpg

WIederling wrote:

prototypes to serial only 60% ? ROFLMAO

787 prototypes were somewhere from $.6b .. $1b. serial frames would cost $360m each. (your 60% :: sold for $83m

kanban wrote:

They could be looking at total program costs to field the plane instead of merely aircraft/engine procurement costs... next year we will know for sure until then it's all guessing

Dutchy wrote:

kanban wrote:

They could be looking at total program costs to field the plane instead of merely aircraft/engine procurement costs... next year we will know for sure until then it's all guessing

I don't understand what you are saying and what good it will do, could you elaborate on this a bit more?

virage wrote:

The Dutch would be wise canceling the F-35 in favor of the latest Gripen variant.

virage wrote:

The Dutch would be wise canceling the F-35 in favor of the latest Gripen variant.

Ozair wrote:

virage wrote:

The Dutch would be wise canceling the F-35 in favor of the latest Gripen variant.

In what way would a Gripen E be better suited to the Dutch over the F-35?

Dutchy wrote:

Ozair wrote:

virage wrote:

The Dutch would be wise canceling the F-35 in favor of the latest Gripen variant.

In what way would a Gripen E be better suited to the Dutch over the F-35?

price

VSMUT wrote:

It looks like the Netherlands is the latest country to find itself in a crunch with the constantly increasing price tag of the F-35. A decision is to be made in 2019:

https://nltimes.nl/2017/11/30/dutch-gov ... ghter-jets

The Netherlands buys the remaining 3 F-35 fighter aircraft. With this, the Netherlands confirms the purchase of at least 37 aircraft. That is what Secretary of State Barbara Visser announced today in a letter to the House of Representatives.

The full operational deployment of the Dutch F-35 fleet is scheduled for 2024. In order to guarantee this, the order must be confirmed at the latest this month.

Delays in the so-called full operational capability have operational and financial consequences. The Netherlands will have to fly longer with the F-16

Overview of orders and deliveries since 2013

** Ordered and delivered: 2 test aircraft delivered in 2013 (Lot 3 and 4)

** Ordered:
-- 8 aircraft to be delivered in 2019 (Lot 11) *
-- 24 aircraft to be delivered in 2020-2022 (Lots 12-14) *

** To be ordered October 2018:
-- 3 aircraft to be delivered in 2023 (lot 15) *

* the different lot numbers represent the successive production series.

Due to the lower unit price for Lot 11, the new plan exchange rates and the risk reserve of € 120.8 million, the purchase of the F-35s is now financially feasible.

Lower prices

As is well known, the F-35 Joint Program Office aims for lower prices. This happens in 3 ways. In the first place, costs decrease due to higher numbers and the increased production experience. Secondly, production costs decrease thanks to investments. Thirdly, a multi-year purchase has a positive influence on the unit price.

In the coming years, it will be clear against which dollar exchange rate the commitments still to be entered into will be concluded.

Financial coincidences or setbacks in the project (including currency fluctuations) are absorbed through the risk reserve, the foreign exchange reserve and the investment program of the Defense organization.

Dutchy wrote:

Ozair wrote:

virage wrote:

The Dutch would be wise canceling the F-35 in favor of the latest Gripen variant.

In what way would a Gripen E be better suited to the Dutch over the F-35?

price

cpd wrote:

Dutchy wrote:

Ozair wrote:

In what way would a Gripen E be better suited to the Dutch over the F-35?

price

The F35 is at another level compared to the latest Gripen. I was suspicious of the F35 for a while, but I'm not any more.

he Netherlands pledged Friday to boost its defense spending in the coming year to buy more F-35 fighter jets and strengthen its special forces and cyber capabilities, officials said.

"Extra investment in defense is a necessity because our surrounding safety zone has become a more instable place," the Defense Ministry said.

"There are more threats to contend with and threats have become more complex," it added in a statement, issued after a weekly cabinet meeting in The Hague.

This included looking at purchasing 15 more advanced F-35A fighter jets made by U.S. manufacturer Lockheed Martin, Defense Minister Ank Bijleveld told the ANP news agency.

The Dutch have already purchased 37 of the pricey stealth fighters, which are expected to become operational next year.

The number is enough for two squadrons, but NATO has insisted on a third, the ANP added.

The F-35A comes with a current price tag of $89.2 million (78.9 million euros), according to Lockheed Martin.

Both U.S. President Donald Trump and NATO chief Jens Stoltenberg have called on allies in the defense bloc to increase their defense spending, and member states in 2014 agreed on the goal of spending two percent of GDP on their militaries.

"This plan shows that cabinet is serious about the current threats. The Netherlands must take steps to show it will remain a reliable partner," Bijleveld added.

The plan also consists of improving "land and sea-based firepower" and beefing up special forces and cyber warfare capabilities.

Details of the plan and budget will be released in the spring of 2019, the Defence Ministry said.

Ozair wrote:

I thought it was worth posting this article in this thread, to complete the cycle as it were... Not quite 2019 and the decision is being made to increase the order quantity.

mxaxai wrote:

Ozair wrote:

I thought it was worth posting this article in this thread, to complete the cycle as it were... Not quite 2019 and the decision is being made to increase the order quantity.

The article does raise the question if this is merely to spend money and appease their US allies, instead of a real operational need.

The Netherlands’ first operational F-35 has been rolled out in front of government and aerospace industry officials at Lockheed Martin’s facility in Fort Worth, Texas.

After being rolled out, the aircraft was ferried to Luke Air Force Base, Arizona, where the F-35A pilot training takes place.

“Receiving this F-35 at Leeuwarden Air Base later this year is going to be a huge driver for change for our air force and will have tremendous impact on the relevance of our Air Force as part of the coalition,” said Lieutenant General Dennis Luyt, Commander, Royal Netherlands Air Force (RNLAF).

“We want to be among the best air forces of the world, and the platform of F-35 allows us to do that.”

It’s the third Netherlands F-35 delivered to date, with the first two jets based at Edwards Air Force Base, California, as part of operational testing.

The Netherlands was one of the original nine partner nations for the F-35 and was the second international partner to receive the jet.

“From the very beginning of the F-35 program, the Netherlands has been a key partner in developing, testing, improving and maintaining this remarkable aircraft,” said Marillyn Hewson, chairman, president and chief executive officer of Lockheed Martin Corporation.

“Dutch suppliers have provided high-volume production, structural-design support and advanced technologies, and Dutch aircraft and personnel continue to support ongoing testing and operations for the worldwide F-35 fleet. As we look to the future, the Netherlands will serve as a sustainment hub in the European region for maintenance, repair, overhaul and upgrade projects.”

The current order from the Netherlands is for 37 F-35 aircraft, with the Dutch Ministry of Economic Affairs estimating that the program has generated more than $1 billion in contracts for the Netherlands industry.

Dutch industry is also heavily involved with the production of F-35 parts, with over 3,000 aircraft expected to feature parts from the Netherlands over the next three decades.

It’s been nearly three years since the F-35 touched down for the first time on Dutch soil, when the aircraft was showed off to the nation through a series of “experience flights”, which let the public evaluate the difference between the fifth generation fighter and the F-16, especially in noise levels.

The roll-out of the Netherlands’ first operational F-35 was livestreamed on YouTube.

The Dutch government on Tuesday announced plans to purchase nine more of Lockheed Martin's F-35 jets, a move that would bring the country's inventory to 46.

The envisioned €1 billion acquisition will “lay the foundation” for a third F-35 squadron in the Dutch air force, a plan that government officials first floated in late 2018, according to a statement posted on the defense ministry website.

The additional aircraft are expected contribute to the air force's objective of having four jets available for NATO missions while also performing homeland defense operations and accounting for training requirements and maintenance downtime.

Fully rounding out a third squadron would require 15 extra planes, however, alliance officials have previously told the Dutch, prompting talk in the Netherlands last year of a potentially higher number eventually.

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