airnorth
Topic Author
Posts: 221
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 7:30 am

Avro Arrow model found in Lake Ontario

Fri Sep 08, 2017 4:14 pm

Hi folks,
I did not see a thread on this yet, but found the news to be pretty interesting.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/a ... -1.4280537
 
User avatar
Dutchy
Posts: 3201
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: Avro Arrow model found in Lake Ontario

Fri Sep 08, 2017 6:38 pm

Interesting, so there are some examples left. Restore one, the plane deserves it.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
airnorth
Topic Author
Posts: 221
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 7:30 am

Re: Avro Arrow model found in Lake Ontario

Fri Sep 08, 2017 7:33 pm

Sadly, I think it is a scale model only about 3 meters long.
 
User avatar
Tugger
Posts: 6775
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:38 am

Re: Avro Arrow model found in Lake Ontario

Fri Sep 08, 2017 7:46 pm

airnorth wrote:
Sadly, I think it is a scale model only about 3 meters long.

Yes, they found two of the "free flight" model. Not an actual or full size Avro Arrow.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
 
bigjku
Posts: 940
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2007 10:51 pm

Re: Avro Arrow model found in Lake Ontario

Fri Sep 08, 2017 8:09 pm

Dutchy wrote:
Interesting, so there are some examples left. Restore one, the plane deserves it.


If you take the mythology of it aside it wasn't that exceptional of a plane. I can't think of much reason to want one over an F-4 for example.
 
User avatar
ssteve
Posts: 1256
Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2011 8:32 am

Re: Avro Arrow model found in Lake Ontario

Fri Sep 08, 2017 8:26 pm

Flipping zebra mussels
 
ThePointblank
Posts: 2835
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:39 pm

Re: Avro Arrow model found in Lake Ontario

Sat Sep 09, 2017 2:22 am

bigjku wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Interesting, so there are some examples left. Restore one, the plane deserves it.


If you take the mythology of it aside it wasn't that exceptional of a plane. I can't think of much reason to want one over an F-4 for example.

It was cancelled for good reason, which is something that was glossed over in the lore and mythology. To have continued developing the Arrow, along with the other need bits of military modernization that was needed at the time (the Navy needed new ships, the Army needed new tanks and trucks, etc) would have been cost prohibitive at the time, for the available defence budget.

Had any government allowed the CF-105 project to continue, it would have disarmed Canada. The project was opposed by, inter alia, the Treasury, the Naval Staff, the General Staff and the majority of the Air Staff - for good reasons.

With the launch of Sputnik, governments around the world were re-assessing their fighter jet needs and requirements. Canada especially could not afford to continue with a project that may or may not be even useful in a few years. The entirety of the Avro Arrow imbroglio was financial: building and flying the Arrow would have destroyed the Canadian Forces unless unconscionably huge increases were made to the defence budget – in the teeth of a major recession!

It was a good airplane, probably even a very good airplane but not one that could be sold to anyone else. It would have been a HUGE white elephant. The government made the politically and militarily correct decision. Canada no longer needed the Arrow; Canada could not afford the Arrow; the Arrow met the fate it deserved: the scrap heap.

The funding that was supposed to go to the CF-105 was instead diverted to recapitalize the Army and Navy, as both services needed new equipment. The Navy got the new destroyers it needed. The Army got their new tanks and trucks.

Now was the government of the day a mite brutal in ending the project? Yes, but there was overriding concerns regarding the Soviets getting their grubby mittens on the plans (which proved in the end to be true; the Soviets had penetrated into the project, and both Canadian and American intelligence agencies knew there was a mole inside the program). Could the government have gone in a different direction and kept that expertise? Yes, but what?

Diefenbaker was the first PM to have to face up to declining Canadian support for military spending which coincided with huge increases in the rate of defence product related inflation – which meant that new/replacement weapon systems cost more and more and more, increasing faster than capabilities (and, consequently, lower quantities required). He cancelled the Arrow at the insistence of his senior bureaucrats, admirals, generals and the majority of his air marshals.

The aircraft was good but not great and there was no market, beyond Canada, for it – it was on track to destroy the military by sucking all the money away from all other projects. He introduced an 'austerity programme' across government which had the primary aim of finding money for the military's budget. The Pearson/Hellyer integration/unification debacle was initiated because they, too, wanted to find ways to give military what the admirals, generals and air marshals said they needed from within the current budget because Canadians would not support increased defence spending – new social programmes were top of the national priority list, a list created by those who survived the Great Depression and fought World War II.
 
LightningZ71
Posts: 312
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2016 10:59 pm

Re: Avro Arrow model found in Lake Ontario

Sat Sep 09, 2017 8:59 pm

Personally, I feel that if Canada and the US had chosen to cooperate on the F-108 Rapier project instead of going their own separate ways, it would have produced one of the most amazing high-speed interceptors ever deployed. Instead, the US Navy got the A-5 Vigilante and the USAF almost the YF-12 and the Canadians got nothing much useful for their work. Would have been a faster, longer legged, and probably more reliable than the Mig 25.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: AAvgeek744, par13del, zanl188 and 2 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos