capitalflyer
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POTUS uses "AF2" to Huntington

Sat Aug 05, 2017 12:18 pm

Any idea why POTUS would be using "AF2"? See image in article
https://www.google.com/amp/www.nydailyn ... -1.3381957
 
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maortega15
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Re: POTUS uses "AF2" to Huntington

Sat Aug 05, 2017 12:33 pm

It seems like they'll be using Tri-State Airport which can't handle an aircraft the size of a 747.
 
Tan Flyr
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Re: POTUS uses "AF2" to Huntington

Sat Aug 05, 2017 12:49 pm

AF 2 would have had the Vice President on board. If the President is on ANY AF aircraft it is AF 1...this time he just used the 757 to Huntington due to airport runway capabilities.

The 757 can handle a runway like that under almost any conditions.

so, to clarify..the 747's are ONLY AF 1 when POTUS is on board.or any other Af aircraft is the same. It is a call sign, not a specific aircraft.
 
capitalflyer
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Re: POTUS uses "AF2" to Huntington

Sat Aug 05, 2017 1:25 pm

Tan Flyr wrote:
AF 2 would have had the Vice President on board. If the President is on ANY AF aircraft it is AF 1...this time he just used the 757 to Huntington due to airport runway capabilities.

The 757 can handle a runway like that under almost any conditions.

so, to clarify..the 747's are ONLY AF 1 when POTUS is on board.or any other Af aircraft is the same. It is a call sign, not a specific aircraft.


Yes, I realize this. Hence the quotes.

How often does the 757 substitute? I would think this would be a risk without the same space available for comms, command and control, etc. Maybe length of flight mitigated risk.
 
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flyingturtle
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Re: POTUS uses "AF2" to Huntington

Sat Aug 05, 2017 1:47 pm

capitalflyer wrote:
I would think this would be a risk without the same space available for comms, command and control


It's a negligible risk, given that the POTATUS stays in the U.S., and the USAF can pick him up quickly should there be any crisis. In 2001, Bush visited Booker Elementary School when 9/11 happened. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-sept ... O920110911 says that he was quickly flown to Barksdale AFB on the VC-25.

Does the President ever hand over all responsibility to the Veep when he leaves the United States? I know it's different, but in many organizations each commander selects a fully responsible substitute the moment he leaves the command post.

David
Keeping calm is terrorism against those who want to live in fear.
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: POTUS uses "AF2" to Huntington

Sat Aug 05, 2017 3:16 pm

capitalflyer wrote:
Any idea why POTUS would be using "AF2"? See image in article
https://www.google.com/amp/www.nydailyn ... -1.3381957

AF1 isn't always operated by SAM 28000 or SAM 29000 (the VC-25s/B742s). When Clinton was in office, he actually used a DC-9 to fly up to BUF. Those aircraft were usually used for cabinet or Congressional transport, but it was deemed the most appropriate aircraft at the time. Many airfields can't handle the VC-25, so logistically it's sometimes easier to use one of the smaller aircraft in the SAM fleet. President Obama used the C-32 (B752) as well on several locations, as does the Secretary of State on longer intl trips (although they'll usually take the C-40/B73G).

AF1/AF2 or those with the "Foxtrot" designator have no bearing on the type aircraft they're flying, it's simply an indication that the individual is on board.

flyingturtle wrote:
Does the President ever hand over all responsibility to the Veep when he leaves the United States? I know it's different, but in many organizations each commander selects a fully responsible substitute the moment he leaves the command post.

David

If you're referring to the 25th Amendment, it only plays a factor when the president is incapacitated. The VC-25 is what it is because it's networked to the entire defense apparatus. The president is never out of contact, so there would be no reason for a temporary shifting of rules. If you mean a shift in terms of "running the office", that would usually be taken care of by the Chief of Staff. The VP will fill in for some capacities or ceremonial duties, but the Chief of Staff is the point of contact for cabinet members.
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Moose135
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Re: POTUS uses "AF2" to Huntington

Sat Aug 05, 2017 4:19 pm

capitalflyer wrote:
How often does the 757 substitute?

Trump flew to Long Island last week in the C-32. It all depends on where they are going.
KC-135 - Passing gas and taking names!
 
KICT
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Re: POTUS uses "AF2" to Huntington

Sat Aug 05, 2017 6:39 pm

This is really getting old. (1) It's a military aircraft, (2) *any* Air Force aircraft the POTUS is on becomes AF1. I don't understand why this concept is so difficult for people to understand.
 
SPREE34
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Re: POTUS uses "AF2" to Huntington

Sat Aug 05, 2017 7:52 pm

KICT wrote:
This is really getting old. (1) It's a military aircraft, (2) *any* Air Force aircraft the POTUS is on becomes AF1. I don't understand why this concept is so difficult for people to understand.


It's because there's only been about 30 threads addressing the subject in the last 15 years.

Add, Marine 1, Navy 1, Coast Guard 1, Army 1, and (Gasp) Executive 1. But not N1.

Next, we revisit what constiutes "Heavy", followed by "Future of _________."
I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
 
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flyingturtle
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Re: POTUS uses "AF2" to Huntington

Sun Aug 06, 2017 3:56 pm

atcsundevil wrote:
If you're referring to the 25th Amendment, it only plays a factor when the president is incapacitated.


Oh, okay - so the President stays the President with all his presidential duties, functions and responsibilities until he's declared medically unfit, and then the VP takes over. So it's much different to the Swiss system, where we have seven equal heads of state, all of which can (and will) take over each other's functions when there's any need. So, several of them can hole up at an international conference (or in the holidays), stay incommunicado, and the rest of them runs the government.


David
Keeping calm is terrorism against those who want to live in fear.
 
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neutrino
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Re: POTUS uses "AF2" to Huntington

Sun Aug 06, 2017 4:01 pm

KICT wrote:
This is really getting old. (1) It's a military aircraft, (2) *any* Air Force aircraft the POTUS is on becomes AF1. I don't understand why this concept is so difficult for people to understand.

Be cool about it. You know, I know, and plenty of other guys know, but there are still some who don't.
Not everybody, or a.netter newbie for that matter, is as knowledgeable as you.
Potestatem obscuri lateris nescitis
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: POTUS uses "AF2" to Huntington

Sun Aug 06, 2017 5:04 pm

flyingturtle wrote:
atcsundevil wrote:
If you're referring to the 25th Amendment, it only plays a factor when the president is incapacitated.


Oh, okay - so the President stays the President with all his presidential duties, functions and responsibilities until he's declared medically unfit, and then the VP takes over. So it's much different to the Swiss system, where we have seven equal heads of state, all of which can (and will) take over each other's functions when there's any need. So, several of them can hole up at an international conference (or in the holidays), stay incommunicado, and the rest of them runs the government.


David

Correct. The transfer of power is something rarely used — George W. Bush used it once while he was under anesthesia for a colonoscopy, for example. Because of the equipment available on all of the president's means of transport, he's never out of communication, so there'd be no reason for a temporary transfer of power. Transferring responsibilities of running things "back at the office" is a different matter, but considering how connected the world is today, it's more or less a formality. I would imagine all of this would be less of an issue for most counties, but the reluctance to transfer power away from the president for any length of time is obviously due to the existence of the US nuclear arsenal.
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ZaphodHarkonnen
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Re: POTUS uses "AF2" to Huntington

Sun Aug 06, 2017 9:00 pm

atcsundevil wrote:
flyingturtle wrote:
atcsundevil wrote:
If you're referring to the 25th Amendment, it only plays a factor when the president is incapacitated.


Oh, okay - so the President stays the President with all his presidential duties, functions and responsibilities until he's declared medically unfit, and then the VP takes over. So it's much different to the Swiss system, where we have seven equal heads of state, all of which can (and will) take over each other's functions when there's any need. So, several of them can hole up at an international conference (or in the holidays), stay incommunicado, and the rest of them runs the government.


David

Correct. The transfer of power is something rarely used — George W. Bush used it once while he was under anesthesia for a colonoscopy, for example. Because of the equipment available on all of the president's means of transport, he's never out of communication, so there'd be no reason for a temporary transfer of power. Transferring responsibilities of running things "back at the office" is a different matter, but considering how connected the world is today, it's more or less a formality. I would imagine all of this would be less of an issue for most counties, but the reluctance to transfer power away from the president for any length of time is obviously due to the existence of the US nuclear arsenal.


Nah, it's just a US specific thing as far as I can tell. UK, China, France, etc. all seem to be happy to leave the nuclear keys back home when the leader travels. Of course if one could contact the leader you would but in a pinch the option can be made by whoever is the acting leader.
 
capitalflyer
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Re: POTUS uses "AF2" to Huntington

Mon Aug 07, 2017 1:37 pm

atcsundevil wrote:
capitalflyer wrote:
Any idea why POTUS would be using "AF2"? See image in article
https://www.google.com/amp/www.nydailyn ... -1.3381957

AF1 isn't always operated by SAM 28000 or SAM 29000 (the VC-25s/B742s). When Clinton was in office, he actually used a DC-9 to fly up to BUF. Those aircraft were usually used for cabinet or Congressional transport, but it was deemed the most appropriate aircraft at the time. Many airfields can't handle the VC-25, so logistically it's sometimes easier to use one of the smaller aircraft in the SAM fleet. President Obama used the C-32 (B752) as well on several locations, as does the Secretary of State on longer intl trips (although they'll usually take the C-40/B73G).

AF1/AF2 or those with the "Foxtrot" designator have no bearing on the type aircraft they're flying, it's simply an indication that the individual is on board.

flyingturtle wrote:
Does the President ever hand over all responsibility to the Veep when he leaves the United States? I know it's different, but in many organizations each commander selects a fully responsible substitute the moment he leaves the command post.

David

If you're referring to the 25th Amendment, it only plays a factor when the president is incapacitated. The VC-25 is what it is because it's networked to the entire defense apparatus. The president is never out of contact, so there would be no reason for a temporary shifting of rules. If you mean a shift in terms of "running the office", that would usually be taken care of by the Chief of Staff. The VP will fill in for some capacities or ceremonial duties, but the Chief of Staff is the point of contact for cabinet members.


Thank you for the informative reply and paying attention to the fact I was using AF1 and AF2 as lazy shorthand.

Feel free to close thread ask question asked as been answered. Thanks!
 
ChrisKen
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Re: POTUS uses "AF2" to Huntington

Thu Aug 24, 2017 9:02 pm

ZaphodHarkonnen wrote:
Nah, it's just a US specific thing as far as I can tell. UK, China, France, etc. all seem to be happy to leave the nuclear keys back home when the leader travels.


Can't speak for France and China but the UK has several systems in place to cover all sorts of scenarios.
 
bluejuice
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Re: POTUS uses "AF2" to Huntington

Thu Aug 24, 2017 9:14 pm

SPREE34 wrote:
KICT wrote:
This is really getting old. (1) It's a military aircraft, (2) *any* Air Force aircraft the POTUS is on becomes AF1. I don't understand why this concept is so difficult for people to understand.


It's because there's only been about 30 threads addressing the subject in the last 15 years.

Add, Marine 1, Navy 1, Coast Guard 1, Army 1, and (Gasp) Executive 1. But not N1.

Next, we revisit what constiutes "Heavy", followed by "Future of _________."


I hear that President Trump is going to sign an executive order requiring Boeing to reopen 757 production.
:duck:
 
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Dutchy
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Re: POTUS uses "AF2" to Huntington

Thu Aug 24, 2017 9:48 pm

bluejuice wrote:
SPREE34 wrote:
KICT wrote:
This is really getting old. (1) It's a military aircraft, (2) *any* Air Force aircraft the POTUS is on becomes AF1. I don't understand why this concept is so difficult for people to understand.


It's because there's only been about 30 threads addressing the subject in the last 15 years.

Add, Marine 1, Navy 1, Coast Guard 1, Army 1, and (Gasp) Executive 1. But not N1.

Next, we revisit what constiutes "Heavy", followed by "Future of _________."


I hear that President Trump is going to sign an executive order requiring Boeing to reopen 757 production.
:duck:


That will gain a giant leap in support on this forum :bouncy:
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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maortega15
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Re: POTUS uses "AF2" to Huntington

Fri Aug 25, 2017 11:05 am

Dutchy wrote:
bluejuice wrote:
SPREE34 wrote:

It's because there's only been about 30 threads addressing the subject in the last 15 years.

Add, Marine 1, Navy 1, Coast Guard 1, Army 1, and (Gasp) Executive 1. But not N1.

Next, we revisit what constiutes "Heavy", followed by "Future of _________."


I hear that President Trump is going to sign an executive order requiring Boeing to reopen 757 production.
:duck:


That will gain a giant leap in support on this forum :bouncy:

Not if he uses taxpayer dollars to replace his own jet. :stirthepot:

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