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bikerthai
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Re: Report: USAF to buy Transaero NTU 747-8s for Air Force One

Tue Aug 08, 2017 1:35 pm

Stitch wrote:
And they're probably going to have to rip that interior out to the airframe itself (so not just the panels, but also the insulation blankets) in order to run all the wiring and such.

Not sure about AF1 but typically the insulation only gets removed if there are skin penetrations or skin/frame modifications to be done. All wiring are routed inside the blankets (keep them from freezing.)

The 747 would be a dream for wiring routing teams as there is much more space to route wiring. But you may be right with most of the interior blankets as they will be pretty much shot once the mod team finish with the aircraft that they might as well order a replacement set of blanket for the mod. At least Boeing still have their blanket shop in Everett, so getting replacement would not be too much of a headache.

USAF336TFS wrote:
I always wondered why the USAF just didn't buy a couple of white tails a few years ago,


It was not up to the Air Force as congress held the purse. And as we all know, Congress can not think that far ahead.

bt
Intelligent seeks knowledge. Enlightened seeks wisdom.
 
Noshow
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Re: Report: USAF to buy Transaero NTU 747-8s for Air Force One

Tue Aug 08, 2017 1:49 pm

The almost new laser 747 (-400F) that had parked in the desert has been cut to pieces violently. Why is that? Wouldn't this make for some great spare parts supplier for it's sister 747s?
 
LMP737
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Re: Report: USAF to buy Transaero NTU 747-8s for Air Force One

Tue Aug 08, 2017 5:38 pm

Noshow wrote:
The almost new laser 747 (-400F) that had parked in the desert has been cut to pieces violently. Why is that? Wouldn't this make for some great spare parts supplier for it's sister 747s?


Typically any rotable part is removed from an aircraft that is about to be scraped. My guess for it being scrapped is that it's a one of a kind aircraft whose program was cancelled.
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
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bikerthai
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Re: Report: USAF to buy Transaero NTU 747-8s for Air Force One

Tue Aug 08, 2017 6:29 pm

I understand that the laser was a chemical laser and spits out mass quantities of yucky chemicals. Not sure if anyone would want any structure spare parts from this plane.

bt
Intelligent seeks knowledge. Enlightened seeks wisdom.
 
Noshow
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Re: Report: USAF to buy Transaero NTU 747-8s for Air Force One

Wed Aug 09, 2017 11:36 am

What would be wrong with a new tail or new wings? Is there any political issue like a non destroyed laser plane could be violating any treaty or something?
 
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kanban
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Re: Report: USAF to buy Transaero NTU 747-8s for Air Force One

Wed Aug 09, 2017 4:02 pm

Let's hope the interior will be as utilitarian as the current planes and not a "trumped" up cross between a bordello and a gold plated Renaissance ballroom.
 
bmacleod
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Re: Report: USAF to buy Transaero NTU 747-8s for Air Force One

Wed Aug 09, 2017 4:28 pm

Dutchy wrote:
747classic wrote:
A rare picture of the two future AF 1 aircraft stored at Victorville (VCV)

Image
Original uploaded by Captain Dave's twitter, see : http://twitter.com/DaveWallsworth/statu ... 4882733056


Are they guarded in any way, since they now become destined as AF1 birds? Or will they be flown to an Air Force base?


Edwards AFB is just a 10 minute hop from VCV if the USAF wants to be on the "safe side".
"What good are wings without the courage to fly?" - Atticus
 
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Devilfish
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Re: Report: USAF to buy Transaero NTU 747-8s for Air Force One

Wed Aug 09, 2017 4:35 pm

I wonder if that satcom dome on top would remain as is, or get modified to Military Specifications should there be differences. I'm assuming the current VC-25s will have served the maximum length of time the Air Force is willing to use them when the new pair arrives in 2024. Also, that they may be too big and a bit technically behind for future battlespace management requirements that both could just be relegated to mundane transport duties (after removal of sensitive gear) or quietly decommissioned instead of taking on other specialized missions.
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
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Stitch
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Re: Report: USAF to buy Transaero NTU 747-8s for Air Force One

Wed Aug 09, 2017 5:26 pm

Noshow wrote:
What would be wrong with a new tail or new wings?


It may just be that reconditioning the airframe into an airworthy condition is not worth the effort and expense.


kanban wrote:
Let's hope the interior will be as utilitarian as the current planes and not a "trumped" up cross between a bordello and a gold plated Renaissance ballroom.


I doubt the sitting President has much input into the interior configuration beyond suggestions about what does and does not work on the current VC-25 configuration (beds too hard/short | not enough conference space | too noisy). By design, a new Presidential Transport is designed to not enter service until the sitting President's Term of Office has expired in part to prevent such meddling. :)


Devilfish wrote:
I wonder if that satcom dome on top would remain as is, or get modified to Military Specifications should there be differences.


I'm sure it will resemble the ones on the VC-25 and E-4B fleets, though with modernization it may be possible to fit it in the current blister.

Devilfish wrote:
I'm assuming the current VC-25s will have served the maximum length of time the Air Force is willing to use them when the new pair arrives in 2024. Also, that they may be too big and a bit technically behind for future battlespace management requirements that both could just be relegated to mundane transport duties (after removal of sensitive gear) or quietly decommissioned instead of taking on other specialized missions.


I expect the airframe with the least hours on it will be kept as a backup for a time (just as SAM 27000 was when SAM 28000 and 29000 entered service) while the other will go to the USAF Museum in Dayton to join the other Presidential Transports on display there. The other will eventually go to a museum, as well (my hope is the Museum of Flight here in Seattle to join SAM 970 - the first VC-137 to serve as a Presidential Transport).
 
rj777
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Re: Report: USAF to buy Transaero NTU 747-8s for Air Force One

Wed Aug 09, 2017 11:24 pm

Isn't one of the 747s going to the Reagan Museum?
 
Confuscius
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Re: Report: USAF to buy Transaero NTU 747-8s for Air Force One

Wed Aug 09, 2017 11:46 pm

727200 wrote:
What would be the cost of retrofit on these 2 birds? Knowing how government works, and the fact that what program saves money in the history of this country, these will not be cheap by any stretch. I would think to re-work the planes alone with the modifications is gonna be one serious cost; about the size of a phone book.


It'll be cheaper to outsource the retrofit overseas. Heck, the Chinese might include some extra things free of charge.
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Stitch
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Re: Report: USAF to buy Transaero NTU 747-8s for Air Force One

Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:11 am

rj777 wrote:
Isn't one of the 747s going to the Reagan Museum?


Where would they put it? Plus they already have SAM 27000 and she barely fits.

It's pretty much a given the USAF Museum will get either 28000 or 29000 as they have every other Presidential Transport. So I expect the two most-likely places for the other will be the Udvar-Hazy Annex of the Smithsonian at IAD or the Museum of Flight here in Seattle (since she was built in Everett).
 
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USAF336TFS
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Re: Report: USAF to buy Transaero NTU 747-8s for Air Force One

Thu Aug 10, 2017 1:43 pm

I always wondered why the USAF just didn't buy a couple of white tails a few years ago,


bikerthai wrote:
It was not up to the Air Force as congress held the purse. And as we all know, Congress can not think that far ahead.




So true about Congress, Senator McConnell making excuses is a perfect example, but perhaps out of the initial funding for R&D. Can't imagine why it would cost upwards of $100M to plan requirements and capabilities.

But then again, what do I know? I'm just an ignorant U.S. taxpayer. :roll:
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AirlineCritic
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Re: Report: USAF to buy Transaero NTU 747-8s for Air Force One

Thu Aug 10, 2017 5:21 pm

kanban wrote:
Let's hope the interior will be as utilitarian as the current planes and not a "trumped" up cross between a bordello and a gold plated Renaissance ballroom.


Sir, you win the Internet today!
 
PITingres
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Re: Report: USAF to buy Transaero NTU 747-8s for Air Force One

Fri Aug 11, 2017 12:34 am

DfwRevolution wrote:
... Plus, it's not like anyone knew these frames would go to the USAF while they were being built for Transaero. I find it impossible that someone slipped listening devices or something onto a frame destined for a commercial airline on the off chance they might go bankrupt and re-purpose the frames for VIP use.


Actually, the thought has occurred to me that this is exactly how I'd do it. If I wanted to bug a potential AF1, I'd try to cook up something that would end up in every single 748i, and hope for the best.

Now mind, I don't really think this happened. But if you figure that a bug-on-a-chip can be made for a fraction of a penny these days, and if you imagine some small outfit being subverted to (say) stick one in every LED driver or fluorescent ballast they make, you don't have to worry about hitting a specific target. It's the fish approach instead of the mammal way. :-)

I'll now forget that I ever suggested such a thing, and let the professionally paranoid take it from here...
Fly, you fools! Fly!
 
Oroka
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Re: Report: USAF to buy Transaero NTU 747-8s for Air Force One

Fri Aug 11, 2017 2:13 am

It wouldnt be unreasonable to have an airline that is on shakey financial ground order a few planes that will most likely be the next AF1, with a model that is on its way out, then go out of business leaving 2 airframes sitting there... just ripe for the picking by some politician trying to be frugal.
 
ZaphodHarkonnen
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Re: Report: USAF to buy Transaero NTU 747-8s for Air Force One

Fri Aug 11, 2017 12:44 pm

Eh, I think you're really reaching for conspiracy theories if you're going that far.

The airframes will be stripped of any customer stuff anyways. So nothing installed for Transaero will remain. Everything else will be standard Boeing stuff and will likely be inspected with a fine tooth comb by the USAF and SS. On top of all that there will probably be rooms within the plane taht are shielded as it often carries press anyways. So yeah, any chances of a bug surviving long enough to be useful is pretty slim. Assuming someone managed to get lucky and put a bug on the planes as is.
 
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bikerthai
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Re: Report: USAF to buy Transaero NTU 747-8s for Air Force One

Fri Aug 11, 2017 1:17 pm

PITingres wrote:
But if you figure that a bug-on-a-chip can be made for a fraction of a penny these days, and if you imagine some small outfit being subverted to (say) stick one in every LED driver or fluorescent ballast they make, you don't have to worry about hitting a specific target.


Simple transmitting chips will not work. The airplane's EMI shielding protection will prevent signal from any chip from exiting the fuselage. You would need an insider to have a chance to read any information from any chip/bug. After modification, the airplane will also be "scanned" for EMI signals to verify shielding. This test should pick up any signal strong enough to exit the fuselage.

bt
Intelligent seeks knowledge. Enlightened seeks wisdom.
 
LMP737
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Re: Report: USAF to buy Transaero NTU 747-8s for Air Force One

Fri Aug 11, 2017 5:52 pm

bikerthai wrote:

The 747 would be a dream for wiring routing teams as there is much more space to route wiring. But you may be right with most of the interior blankets as they will be pretty much shot once the mod team finish with the aircraft that they might as well order a replacement set of blanket for the mod.


With all the electrical and structural work that needs to be done I'm willing to bet all the insulation blankets will be taken out.
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
starrion
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Re: Report: USAF to buy Transaero NTU 747-8s for Air Force One

Mon Aug 14, 2017 11:26 pm

kanban wrote:
Let's hope the interior will be as utilitarian as the current planes and not a "trumped" up cross between a bordello and a gold plated Renaissance ballroom.


It won't be THAT difficult to unmount the stripper pole when the new POTUS takes over.
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