MEMFLY
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C130 crash in MS Delta

Mon Jul 10, 2017 11:22 pm

http://www.fox13memphis.com/news/trendi ... /555745112 C-130 Crash near greenwood 6 dead flight left out of Memphis.
responders said the military C-130 left Memphis on Monday with eight people on the plane.

The plane crashed in Leflore County just off Highway 82 on Monday afternoon.

The plane is believed to have exploded in mid-air. Investigators said they found debris on both sides of the highway, leading them to believe an explosion happened prior to the crash.
 
dragon6172
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Re: C130 crash in MS Delta

Tue Jul 11, 2017 12:36 am

Five mile radius debris field according to another article. Another says aircraft originally departed from Cherry Point, NC, so possible Marine Corps aircraft.

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ltbewr
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Re: C130 crash in MS Delta

Tue Jul 11, 2017 1:57 am

Latest news (about 9:50 PM EDT) suggests that 11 bodies recovered. This looks bad and it is disturbing if per some reports, it partially broke up in mid air (possibly at 20,000 ft). RIP to all.
 
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Zkpilot
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Re: C130 crash in MS Delta

Tue Jul 11, 2017 3:36 am

RIP to all onboard.
Was a MC refuelling C-130. I guess if the fuel tank onboard blew then that would completely destroy the aircraft mid-air
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7BOEING7
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Re: C130 crash in MS Delta

Tue Jul 11, 2017 4:34 am

Even though there is a wide debris field, the overhead shot looks like most of the airplane "crashed" in one piece.
 
Oykie
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Re: C130 crash in MS Delta

Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:09 am

So sad to hear about this crash. Thoughts and prayers to the families who lost their loved ones.
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LoganTheBogan
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Re: C130 crash in MS Delta

Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:25 am

I also read in another article that the aircraft was full of ammo which is currently making it hard for fire fighters to put out the blaze due to the explosions. Not sure what other sources say about it though.
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flyingturtle
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Re: C130 crash in MS Delta

Tue Jul 11, 2017 9:09 am

7BOEING7 wrote:
Even though there is a wide debris field, the overhead shot looks like most of the airplane "crashed" in one piece.


BBC News quotes a "five miles long" debris field. An attempted emergency landing?


David
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Boeingphan
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Re: C130 crash in MS Delta

Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:24 am

LoganTheBogan wrote:
I also read in another article that the aircraft was full of ammo which is currently making it hard for fire fighters to put out the blaze due to the explosions. Not sure what other sources say about it though.


My suspicion would be it was probably fuel on board rather than ammo but just speculation on my part. It was a refueling version so obviously this would contribute to the fire if indeed there was additional fuel onboard.
 
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KarelXWB
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Re: C130 crash in MS Delta

Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:26 am

I've just read that one engine was found burning 1 mile north of the crash site.
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zanl188
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Re: C130 crash in MS Delta

Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:32 am

Zkpilot wrote:
RIP to all onboard.
Was a MC refuelling C-130. I guess if the fuel tank onboard blew then that would completely destroy the aircraft mid-air


Fuselage tank was removed as an option on Air Force J model 130s. Not sure if Marines did the same on the KC-130J. Was this a legacy KC-130?
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ZeBrAmEaT
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Re: C130 crash in MS Delta

Tue Jul 11, 2017 12:19 pm

You have the option to remove or install the fuselage tank. The Marines have them available but install them as mission capability dictates. They are usually flown without them to provide mission capability options. It is still unlclear whether it was a legacy or a J. The blanket of condolences needs to stop, sympathy means nothing to the families. Also, names have yet to be released so it means less than nothing. We're here to discuss aircraft, let's stick to that.
Semper Fi to my fellow devil's on here.
 
memphiX
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Re: C130 crash in MS Delta

Tue Jul 11, 2017 1:21 pm

one report says it stopped in Memphis. Can it be fuel contamination?
 
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AirlineCritic
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Re: C130 crash in MS Delta

Tue Jul 11, 2017 2:21 pm

ZeBrAmEaT: I don't think this site should be only about condolences, we should discuss technical issues and facts and reasoned speculation about what has happened. But, I also don't think it is appropriate to pay no attention to the human side. Real people died, and they had real friends and family who are left to mourn. My condolences to everyone affected.

MemphiX: Why would you think so? at this point the issue could many things, from structural problems to fire onboard engine issues to crew mistakes, or even malicious acts. And fuel contamination. But at this point, we have very little evidence supporting any of these theories. The aircraft may have come apart (depending on who you believe) at least to some extent before reaching ground, but that doesn't mean that e.g., engines coming off were the initial cause of this accident. Airplanes tend to disintegrate in the air if they are completely out of control. And that out of control situation could have been caused by many things, from control surface issues to cargo moving and so on.
 
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TheNikonJones
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Re: C130 crash in MS Delta

Tue Jul 11, 2017 2:49 pm

Anyone know the call sign? I am listening to Memphis Center archive.
 
ZeBrAmEaT
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Re: C130 crash in MS Delta

Tue Jul 11, 2017 2:55 pm

Bevause you don't know who was affected, it's a blanket of comfort that does not comfort anyone. It's insulting. It just says, yes it's unfortunate what has happened, but don't forget about me today. This is supposed to be technical information, if you have never had experience on a C-130 or even KC-130 for that matter then speculation is a joke. Jp5 and Jp8 take a lot to ignite. We had open flames near refueling components because the risk minimal. This is not gasoline and the Herc's have a jettison system in place that deplete all the fuel from anywhere in the aircraft with the assistance of boost pumps. It's a military aircraft made by a reputable company. To imply the system does not have redundant fail safes and contingency plans for emergency situations shows these threads are started and created by people that have only obtained knowledge on Wikipedia.
 
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tenHangar
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Re: C130 crash in MS Delta

Tue Jul 11, 2017 3:02 pm

In the aerial video it appears to have hit intact (I see wings - on fire, fuselage and tail) but looking at the tail it seem upside down with the rear cargo door on top?
 
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TheNikonJones
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Re: C130 crash in MS Delta

Tue Jul 11, 2017 3:14 pm

I crewed Herks and C-141s in the USAF. When I first heard the talk about a structural failure, the first thing that came to mind was that this was a KC-130T not a J model. Wing cracks have been an issue on C-130s for years, so I was thinking that this was an older airframe. Steps have been taken to fix these issues with new wing boxes. I've been out of the game for a long time (I got out in 1995), so I am not up to speed on any issues with the J models. A structural failure seems very odd to me if this was a J model. An explosion from ammunition would seem more plausible to me.
 
ZeBrAmEaT
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Re: C130 crash in MS Delta

Tue Jul 11, 2017 3:28 pm

You're right "TheNikonJones", I would find structural failure in the wing box extremely odd for a J. They do still conduct the center wing box beam for those failures in ISO phases. I'm also out of it now but at minimum they are completed on 420 days. Considering you only really need rudder and elevator (fixed stab) to control flight I would also suggest this was a failure of a different type. Give the Marines the benefit of the doubt here. They are trained and trained well conduct operations. The pilots are extremely knowledgeable unlike many civilian pilots because it's mandatory. The crew chiefs and load masters take precautions to ensure strict adherence is made when transporting hazardous materials. A lot of red tape goes into these operations. However, they are Marines. It's possible they were combat deprived and decided to attack an Amazon drone.
 
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TheNikonJones
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Re: C130 crash in MS Delta

Tue Jul 11, 2017 3:51 pm

The USMC as confirmed that it was a KC-130T from VMGR-452 out of Steward Air National Guard base in New York. So, since this was basically an H model, I am curious about wing cracks. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VMGR-452
 
ZeBrAmEaT
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Re: C130 crash in MS Delta

Tue Jul 11, 2017 4:17 pm

The only one I can remember was that old firefighter one that the wings came off. Aircraft structural degradation is nothing new to the aviation community. Having a wing crack that caused a catastrophic failure wouldn't be because it's old, it would be because it was missed. The Corps is well aware of their maintenance and really do everything they can to keep the aircraft flying. If there was a known issue, I promise you they wouldn't fly it. They always think 10 steps ahead, they'll cannibalize whatever necessary to fly a different one. I may be shooting myself in the foot but I'm against a wing crack. Any other theories though? Keep in mind you don't even need 4 engines turning to fly.
 
tp1040
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Re: C130 crash in MS Delta

Tue Jul 11, 2017 5:02 pm

Photos that I saw, it looks like the fuselage is inverted, but basically intact. 5 mile wide debris field, some bodies found pretty far away from the main wreckage.

Doesn't look like complete inflight breakup, but some other type of catastrophic failure.
 
zanl188
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Re: C130 crash in MS Delta

Tue Jul 11, 2017 5:41 pm

ZeBrAmEaT wrote:
You have the option to remove or install the fuselage tank. The Marines have them available but install them as mission capability dictates. They are usually flown without them to provide mission capability options. It is still unlclear whether it was a legacy or a J. The blanket of condolences needs to stop, sympathy means nothing to the families. Also, names have yet to be released so it means less than nothing. We're here to discuss aircraft, let's stick to that.
Semper Fi to my fellow devil's on here.


Option to remove or install tank exists on legacy aircraft, not necessarily so on the Js. Air Force MC & HC J models have no provision for the tank plumbing.
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TheNikonJones
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Re: C130 crash in MS Delta

Tue Jul 11, 2017 5:44 pm

I am not questioning the work the Corps does on their aircraft. And, the reason I mention the age is that I know that they had some issues back in the 80's. The KC-130T came on board with the USMC in 1983. Structural failures have happened. When was this airframe delievered?

Here is an example of a structural failure that happened not far from where I live here in Arkansas:

May 13, 1982 : C-130E 64-0543, c/n 4033, of the 314th Tactical Airlift Wing, crashed when wing broke during formation flight near Judsonia, Arkansas.

If there was a structural failure, was it a stressed based failure? Just because an airframe has been modified to fix known issues (wing box) doesn't mean that it is invincible. All I am saying is that if this particular model was one of the older airframes, what kind of stress has it been under during it's flying career? Is it possible that a major structural issue happened after the most recent ISO inspection? Was weather a factor? I listened to the replay from 2030z - 2100z yesterday for Memphis center and I didn't hear any reports of turbulence.
 
petertenthije
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Re: C130 crash in MS Delta

Tue Jul 11, 2017 5:57 pm

The USMC unit VMGR-152 have confirmed the plane is one of theirs. They also confirm it's a KC-130T model.
There were 16 people on board, 15 USMC and one person from the Navy.

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SAAFNAV
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Re: C130 crash in MS Delta

Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:19 pm

As someone with a wee bit of time on Hercs, and air accident investigation qualified, this would be my opinion just based on the photos posted above:

In-flight break-up seems like a low probability. The airframe is fairly 'intact' considering. The wings aren't broken off (which would seem to rule out center wing box) or major fuel tank explosion. We had one aircraft where the 'bow-beam' was discovered cracked during a service. Unknown how long she has flown like that, but Hercs are pretty robust.

The intact upside-down wreck, together with the cleared earth on the nose-side suggest (to me at least) that she came in straight and level, and flipped over. I am not sure of the dynamics involved to make a C-130 behave like a tail-dragger biting into the ground but it would have been severe. Can't see if the landing gear is still attached to the frame.
Just speculation on my part since I can't establish in which direction the aircraft traveled before impact.

Fin stall and/or Vmca is possible after take-off and engine loss, but still seems remarkably too neat for that.

I would suggest maybe a four-engine roll back. Massive bleed-air failure, syncrophaser problems or Essential AC bus failure might result in that. As long as you have one engine turning you'd have some flight control.

Ammunition explosion is certainly a possibility, but it does tend to be rare.
L-382 Loadmaster; ex C-130B Navigator
 
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TheNikonJones
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Re: C130 crash in MS Delta

Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:55 pm

Good analysis SAAFNAV. It is certainly mysterious that is for sure. An eye witness stated that one of the engines was on fire as it spiralled to the ground. What bothers me is that whatever happened either disabled the control surface wiring or incapacitated the crew? Thoughts?
 
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casinterest
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Re: C130 crash in MS Delta

Tue Jul 11, 2017 7:29 pm

TheNikonJones wrote:
Good analysis SAAFNAV. It is certainly mysterious that is for sure. An eye witness stated that one of the engines was on fire as it spiralled to the ground. What bothers me is that whatever happened either disabled the control surface wiring or incapacitated the crew? Thoughts?


It will be interesting to see the final writeup. The below may be that witness.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/10/us/missis ... index.html

"A witness to Monday's crash, Andy Jones, said he heard a loud bang while working in a field near his catfish farm.
The plane spiraled, nose down, to the ground, Jones said. One of the engines appeared to be trailing white smoke, he said.
He called 911 after the crash. Jones said he didn't see the impact because trees blocked his view.
"
If it was just one engine, I would have a hard time seeing how the plane would have crashed, unless their was something much more destructive under way.
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ZeBrAmEaT
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Re: C130 crash in MS Delta

Tue Jul 11, 2017 7:36 pm

Disabled the control surface wiring and massive bleed air failure? You guys win lol, I'm out. I'm not sure what air accident investigation qualified means but it must be as far from NTSB and aircraft fleet/type as the radome is from the rudder. This is not an intelligent conversation. When someone that does know about these aircraft reads this, they laugh. I'm not sure how you believe turbo props or the flight controls work on a C-130 but I would stay off the internet and hit the books. This is ridiculous. Trying to sound the smartest on a forum is not difficult. When a site like this exists so many people can benefit from it, when people try to spread incorrect information to feel like they matter, it becomes harmful. Knowledge is something to be cherished through experience.
 
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TheNikonJones
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Re: C130 crash in MS Delta

Tue Jul 11, 2017 7:45 pm

ZeBrAmEaT wrote:
Disabled the control surface wiring and massive bleed air failure? You guys win lol, I'm out. I'm not sure what air accident investigation qualified means but it must be as far from NTSB and aircraft fleet/type as the radome is from the rudder. This is not an intelligent conversation. When someone that does know about these aircraft reads this, they laugh. I'm not sure how you believe turbo props or the flight controls work on a C-130 but I would stay off the internet and hit the books. This is ridiculous. Trying to sound the smartest on a forum is not difficult. When a site like this exists so many people can benefit from it, when people try to spread incorrect information to feel like they matter, it becomes harmful. Knowledge is something to be cherished through experience.

Ah, so the smartest man in the room has spoken. Please sir, enlighten us with your vast knowledge of the C-130. You are the expert here. Please do tell us exactly why this aircraft crashed. And, no fluff...we want the facts since you obviously have all the answers.
 
SAAFNAV
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Re: C130 crash in MS Delta

Tue Jul 11, 2017 7:49 pm

The eyewitness account will then blow my thoughts out of the water.

I'm finding it hard to come up with a good explanation as to why a fire would send the plane in an uncontrollable spiral. Below Vmca it is of course possible, but is just about the most practiced thing in the sim. A prop that went into reverse could cause that, but normally that is associated with valve-housing or maybe FCU failure and not engine fire.

A fire that is localized to the wing/engine shouldn't be able to disrupt control surface rigging, as the cables run inside the cabin to the booster package, with a massive push-rod out to the wing. A cargo fire could bring that about.

Smoke from a burning engine shouldn't be able to enter the bleed air system normally, but once it is compromised it raises the possibility of crew incap.
L-382 Loadmaster; ex C-130B Navigator
 
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TheNikonJones
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Re: C130 crash in MS Delta

Tue Jul 11, 2017 7:58 pm

My line of questions was regarding a structural failure or on-board mishap that rendered the booster system / control linkage inoperable. I was a crew chief and not a AR guy; it's been a few years since I turned wrenches. So, I am by no means an expert on the C-130. That is why I asked questions there Mr. Zebraeater.
 
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TheNikonJones
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Re: C130 crash in MS Delta

Tue Jul 11, 2017 7:59 pm

Here is the C-130T flight manual for anyone that would like to read about the systems. https://info.publicintelligence.net/USNavy-C130T.pdf
 
F9Animal
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Re: C130 crash in MS Delta

Tue Jul 11, 2017 8:15 pm

I think the word "mishap" may be a clue here. Could the aircraft been in a refueling situation? Maybe a collision with another plane it was fueling? Based on the photos of the wreck, I don't see the actual cockpit section. This may explain why they found them 5 miles from the main wreckage? Also, do they have parachutes for the crew members on this particular plane?
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SAAFNAV
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Re: C130 crash in MS Delta

Tue Jul 11, 2017 8:17 pm

ZeBrAmEaT wrote:
Disabled the control surface wiring and massive bleed air failure? You guys win lol, I'm out. I'm not sure what air accident investigation qualified means but it must be as far from NTSB and aircraft fleet/type as the radome is from the rudder. This is not an intelligent conversation. When someone that does know about these aircraft reads this, they laugh. I'm not sure how you believe turbo props or the flight controls work on a C-130 but I would stay off the internet and hit the books. This is ridiculous. Trying to sound the smartest on a forum is not difficult. When a site like this exists so many people can benefit from it, when people try to spread incorrect information to feel like they matter, it becomes harmful. Knowledge is something to be cherished through experience.



You would've noticed that I started my sentence with 'this is what I would pick up just from seeing the photos to my disposal'. I didn't claim to solve this.

I never claimed to work for the NTSB. I was in the military for a very different country, and did my share of investigations. I'm a bit familiar with the difference between the preliminary investigation and the actual scientific investigation.
A preliminary investigator would have a look at the accident site and note everything to the best of his ability, especially items that might not be easily recreated later on. The lead investigator would only consider the viability of it, and does not have to lead his investigation in that direction if the facts don't support it.

Since I don't know you, I won't make any claim to what you might or might not know about C-130's. I can only talk for myself, and I have had a couple of emergencies in a Herc before and I am familiar with the systems of the plane too.

Reading my Dash 2, symptoms of bleed air failure state among others "Loss in engine torque". I agree, that is not the most severe on the list of possible things to happen, but in a compounding emergency it will definitely not help you.

As to the absurdity of the claim of a fire disrupting flight controls, I would suggest having a scan of the accident report of the Canadian Forces CC-130 in Florida. A rupture and spark in the aux pump area created a torching effect and burned through the control lines to the elevator. The committee investigating was of the opinion that had the crew not landed back immediately on the runway in front of them, they probably would not have made it back onto the ground once the cable burned through completely.
L-382 Loadmaster; ex C-130B Navigator
 
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Moose135
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Re: C130 crash in MS Delta

Tue Jul 11, 2017 8:53 pm

F9Animal wrote:
I think the word "mishap" may be a clue here

No, that's fairly standard terminology in a military crash.
KC-135 - Passing gas and taking names!
 
Stubfin
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Re: C130 crash in MS Delta

Tue Jul 11, 2017 8:57 pm

ZeBrAmEaT > Just so you know, this forum as with any other forum isn't reserved for experts in any field. Anyone, ANYONE, is free to post whatever they like according to the 1st amendment of the US Constitution and whatever rules said forum establishes. It's for that reason I take nothing stated on any forum as gospel truth, including this forum. To do otherwise puts one on very shaky ground. Posts on any forum are just points to ponder. For how long is up to the reader.
 
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7BOEING7
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Re: C130 crash in MS Delta

Tue Jul 11, 2017 11:04 pm

I'm a P-3 type, not C-130 but the engines are similar -- just upside down. I'd be interested to know if all the props/blades are at the crash site. The props sometimes have a mind of their own leading to:

1)A ditching in the North Pacific (AF586) due to a prop malfunction causing an engine fire eventually forcing a ditching and

2) A ditching in the Gulf of Oman (VP-47 3/25/95) due to multiple prop issues followed by a loss of control when a prop blade went though the fuselage -- no engine, no flap, boost out ditching
 
iamlucky13
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Re: C130 crash in MS Delta

Tue Jul 11, 2017 11:14 pm

SAAFNAV wrote:
The eyewitness account will then blow my thoughts out of the water.

I'm finding it hard to come up with a good explanation as to why a fire would send the plane in an uncontrollable spiral. Below Vmca it is of course possible, but is just about the most practiced thing in the sim. A prop that went into reverse could cause that, but normally that is associated with valve-housing or maybe FCU failure and not engine fire.

A fire that is localized to the wing/engine shouldn't be able to disrupt control surface rigging, as the cables run inside the cabin to the booster package, with a massive push-rod out to the wing. A cargo fire could bring that about.

Smoke from a burning engine shouldn't be able to enter the bleed air system normally, but once it is compromised it raises the possibility of crew incap.


I would not discount any theories based on eyewitness accounts at this stage. Eyewitness accounts of many events, especially aircraft crashes, vary widely in their accuracy. I remember reading an account of a helicopter that crashed in the water near Pearl Harbor visitor's center a couple years ago. There was cell phone video of the helicopter approaching the shore while auto-rotating, looking to the casual observer like absolutely nothing was wrong with it. Hence, most casual observers reported nothing was wrong with it, yet several others claimed it came in trailing smoke, which the video proved was incorrect.

Something was said about an engine found some distance from the main wreckage, although I don't know if that's been confirmed. Engine separation might cause loss of control due to hydraulic system damage.
 
Andre3K
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Re: C130 crash in MS Delta

Tue Jul 11, 2017 11:48 pm

If one set of propellers and no others were to suddenly go into maximum beta pitch could that cause a near instant spin/stall?
 
gnommit
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Re: C130 crash in MS Delta

Wed Jul 12, 2017 12:05 am

In the aerial photos it looks like the plane is inverted and the right hand horizontal stabilizer is missing. If Engine 3 or 4 departed in flight maybe due to some catastrophic failure, it might have taken out the horizontal stabilizer. Losing control of this flight surface will cause it to go into a spin.
 
LightningZ71
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Re: C130 crash in MS Delta

Wed Jul 12, 2017 1:28 am

I would suspect that a single prop failure like that, while being a "really bad situation", wouldn't induce an immediate stall and spin in a well managed aircraft operating within its normal envelope. However, as unlikely as it may be, having both props on the same side do it, while at a relatively low airspeed, would most certainly be a very difficult situation on the best of days.

This is my guess based on the witness account and the disposition of the crash site: it appears to be the result of a single uncontained turbine failure which resulted in the ejection of debris from the engine at high velocity. The resulting damage to the wing and fuselage likely caused multiple control systems to fail, resulting in the terrible situation that we currently find ourselves in. I don't support any theory of an on board explosion as it appears that the fuselage is largely in one piece, unless the explosion was highly localized in a critical location. If we disregard witness testimony, it looks a lot like a CFIT by an incapacitated crew as, so far, I haven't heard or read anything about any emergency declaration by the crew. A localized explosion could possibly have resulted in a rapid depressurization, however, loss of consciousness isn't instant, and O2 should be ready at hand enough for at least one pilot to make a mayday call, unless he/she had their hands very full with the first rule of accident avoidance: Aviate.

I'm no expert, just a casual observer that happens to work with ANG pilots on a regular basis and grew up and worked around the airlines my whole life.
 
Akflyin2
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Re: C130 crash in MS Delta

Wed Jul 12, 2017 4:53 am

I would like to express my heartfelt sorrow for all aboard and may they rest in peace. I don't usually post in forums, but in this case I have made an exception to give everyone here a perspective from someone who was involved in a C-130 "Mishap". I am a retired Coast Guard C-130 Flight engineer with 4000 hours.

In 1992, during a logistics mission over the Bering sea in Alaska, my crew suffered a catastrophic gearbox failure of the #3 Engine at 21000 ft.. The prop departed and folded in between the nacelle and the fuselage. One of the blades struck to the air-frame causing a 4x8 foot hole just forward of the booster hydration system. From the engineers seat, the rapid decompression sounded and felt like a clap of thunder next to you. Instant fog developed and I couldn't see below the windscreen. The left wing dropped slightly with heavy vibration in the airframe and I honestly thought she was going to roll over on her back and fall. We had no idea up front that the prop separated. As the fog cleared, we first noticed a "throttle control failure " of the # 3 engine. The throttle was moving back and forth from stop to stop so fast you could not even see it. We initiated the emergency engine shutdown checklist as this was one of the conditions listed in the AFM. The Pilot in the left seat concentrated on flying the plane in interior "IFR" conditions and the right seater was working the "mayday" call on the HF and VHF radios. We went on O2 as fast as we could and had the ELT signal going off in our headset as it was activated by the prop striking the ELT antenna. The prop had gone over the right wing at the root and cut the hydraulic lines that kept the MLG charged in the up position. This depleted the hydraulics in the utility Hydraulic system. The condition of the hydraulic systems on the aircraft at this point was that we only had hydraulic pressure for a portion of the primary flight controls. everything else would now be a manual mode of operation. We slowly descended, taking care not to descend in IFR conditions over the Alaska peninsula and run right into a mountain. As I did a damage assessment, it was noted that the #3 engine nacelle looked like it had been run through a meat grinder and I wasn't sure if the wing was going to be there much longer, especially not know what the extent of total aircraft damage was. The external fuel tank had a large dent in it..

We were in the air for another 1.5 hours working through challenges as they came up ( Had a problem verifying right gear as down and locked. Hydraulic fluid had smeared the inspection window and the flight deck indicator didn't work) We made a no flap approach to a no flap landing in marginal VFR conditions at Cold Bay Alaska. Visual walk around showed where the prop slid across the top of the aircraft and sliced a 3 foot cut up the vertical stab. Inside the vertical, you could see where the blade had gotten in there and was cutting the stringers. We had a crew of 9 and 7 passengers and I give full credit to everyone on board..crew and pax alike that worked together for the positive outcome. I will not attempt to surmise what happened to this crew..but I can bet the crew did everything they could do to reach for a positive outcome....

( The video link below will show the aircraft damage from my flight)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cDXXZf022s
 
SAAFNAV
Posts: 435
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2010 5:41 pm

Re: C130 crash in MS Delta

Wed Jul 12, 2017 7:35 am

LightningZ71 wrote:


'CFIT' and 'incapacitated crew' does not go together. CFIT is when you fly a plane into the ground thinking you are fine. Incapacitated crew cannot do anything to control the plane and hence it would be uncontrolled flight.
L-382 Loadmaster; ex C-130B Navigator
 
LightningZ71
Posts: 332
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2016 10:59 pm

Re: C130 crash in MS Delta

Wed Jul 12, 2017 3:59 pm

My apologies. I was rushing and threw out an acronym that I thought would help people visualize what I was saying instead of clarifying what I was trying to say. I intended to say that the way that it appears to have contacted the ground indicated that there was still some measure of "flight control" happening on the plane, be it a conscious crew member, an autopilot attempting to keep the plane straight and level, or just a measure of inherent stability. I am not a C-130 pilot and don't know how stable it is naturally (meaning its tendency to want to remain level in flight). I also don't know the behavior of its autopilot in that, if there were major technical problems or attitude disruptions, would it disengage and sound an alarm, or would it continue to attempt to return the aircraft to straight and level flight continuously.
 
flyXJT
Posts: 128
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2004 8:52 am

Re: C130 crash in MS Delta

Wed Jul 12, 2017 4:28 pm

[quote="Akflyin2"][/quote]

One of my good friends who was a crew chief on the -130 for the USAF had a somewhat similar story while based in Japan, while on a training mission where (bear with me here as I may recall the incorrect terminology) the propeller shaft failed on one of the engines, sent the entire propeller assembly, spinner and all through the fuselage and into the first inboard engine on the opposite side. This left the Herc with two inoperative engines and a significant gash through the fuselage. But, attesting to the Herc's strength, they made it back safely to base, and after some temporary patches and new engines, the aircraft was ferried back to the US for full repairs.

One wonders if maybe something similar happened here, but the angle the propeller departed the aircraft resulted in the it going through more important structures leading to the front area being separated from the aircraft (somewhat like TWA800). A terrible tragedy no matter what actually happened.
 
hercppmx
Posts: 159
Joined: Mon May 26, 2008 8:25 am

Re: C130 crash in MS Delta

Wed Jul 12, 2017 4:53 pm

From a press conference with the CG of 4th MAW this morning. (I watched a live stream from FOX 10 Phoenix.)

- KC-130T from VMGR-452.
-Yankee 7/2 was the call sign.
-2 large impact sites (1/2 mile north of the highway and 1/2 south of the highway).
-Indications are something went wrong at cruise altitude.
-Planned route of flight MCAS Cherry Point -> NAF El Centro -> MCAS Yuma.
C-130; it's a love-hate relationship
 
DaveFly
Posts: 200
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2016 9:35 pm

Re: C130 crash in MS Delta

Wed Jul 12, 2017 9:49 pm

This is my first post in the Military Section. I live very close to SWF, which is both an international passenger airport and an ANG center. This is where the aircraft was based, and there have been some local tributes.

Here is an article from the local newspaper, The Times Herald Record:

http://www.recordonline.com/zz/news/201 ... lems-crash
717,727,737,747,757,767,777,
L1011,DC8,DC9,DC10,MD80/90
A300,A319,320,321,330,340,
CRJ,E135/45/190,
DH8,Avro85,DHBeaver,AstarHelo,F100,ATR42
 
hercppmx
Posts: 159
Joined: Mon May 26, 2008 8:25 am

Re: C130 crash in MS Delta

Thu Jul 13, 2017 3:09 am

I've waited until I've seen it news articles to say anything, the aircraft involved was BuNo 165000 or its common nickname of 'triple nuts'.
C-130; it's a love-hate relationship
 
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JetBuddy
Posts: 1624
Joined: Wed Dec 25, 2013 1:04 am

Re: C130 crash in MS Delta

Fri Jul 14, 2017 3:57 pm

Thanks for the input from new posters and also quite a few C-130 veterans on here. It's very interesting to read your contributions and stories. My father was a C-130H captain back in the 80s, and I've flown on the type many times as a passenger myself. The aircraft type has a lot of nostalgia for me. I don't have much input regarding the crash, other than condolences to the families and friends of the crew that perished. It will be interesting to follow the development of this investigation onward.

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