WIederling
Posts: 3539
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:15 pm

Re: Nuclear weapons prohibited

Sun Jul 30, 2017 1:09 pm

Planeflyer wrote:
W, you are certainly a reminder that it will take a lot more than the UN or the EU to keep the peace.


More of a subtractive process. Most current conflicts are due US interventionism
leveraging regional tensions potential for their interests.
Never has any national entity been so subversive in their global acting.

Removing the US would not lead to a world of Lotus Eaters.
But still, it would help a lot towards a more peaceful world.
Murphy is an optimist
 
Planeflyer
Posts: 584
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2014 3:49 am

Re: Nuclear weapons prohibited

Sun Jul 30, 2017 10:13 pm

Oh I'm sure your fellow Europeans would just love to have guys like you running the security detail.

It's guys w your mind set that have plagued the world and gotten us to where we are today requiring nukes.

You'd have fit right in w an ss division or the Bushido boys who treated the Chinese and Koreans as you would the Poles.

And keep posting; we need to be reminded of what the dark side looks like.
 
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Dutchy
Topic Author
Posts: 2829
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: Nuclear weapons prohibited

Mon Jul 31, 2017 7:55 am

Plane, com'on SS and Bushido? America has been a force of good and a force for evil, just like with everything else. I have more faith in the EU and the UN to do the right thing. As for the EU, you have to remember that citizens in the EU only have to talk to their grand parents to have first accounts of what war is like. I believe that has a real effect on the physics of EU citizens. America has fought all his wars on foreign soil.

We need more international cooperation, not less. Under President Obama, we saw US policy leaning towards more cooperation and relaxing tentions, under the current President we see more tensions and isolationism.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
Planeflyer
Posts: 584
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2014 3:49 am

Re: Nuclear weapons prohibited

Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:39 am

Did u read W's views on Poland? I guess his grandparents have short memories.

How is this any different from those of the Fascits last century?

For that matter how is this different from the islamists we are now at war?

Evil is almost always justified on the basis that the other guy is somehow so inferior that violence is ok.

And when this mentality exists diplomacy almost never works.

A great example of this the Balkans. Diplomatic efforts spearheaded by the EU and UN led to genocide.

Only military action lead by you know who settled the situation.

Cooperation and soft power are vital but we have to understand when neither will work.

Is there any doubt that Russia's actions in both the Crimea and the Ukraine were carried out in the face of Obana's weakness?
 
tommy1808
Posts: 5996
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Nuclear weapons prohibited

Tue Aug 01, 2017 6:35 am

Planeflyer wrote:
A great example of this the Balkans. Diplomatic efforts spearheaded by the EU and UN led to genocide.


You may want to fresh up your knowledge about recent history...

Some nations torpedoing the EU and UN efforts by secretly providing weapons to extremists on both sides may have a LOT to do with what happened on the Balkans.

How about the US involvement in Iran breaking the weapons embargo. The Croatians, law abiding as they where, even asked the US ambassador directly if buying weapons from Iran would violate the weapons embargo.....

http://www.nytimes.com/1996/05/29/world ... ml?mcubz=0

Or the US having AWACS turn a blind eye towards weapons shipments, applying pressure on UNPROFOR to keep that out of reports, silencing Norwegian officials that did eventually speak up
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/ ... es.comment

That story is interessting because the Pentagon was arming Muslim "fighters", while the CIA tried to work against them. That is a pretty good way to get a war going.

Not that other Intelligence Service didn´t know what was going on, and did nothing though....

best regards
Thomas
Times are changing: 70 years ago the USA went to war to defeat the Nazis, now they elect them to run their country.
 
WIederling
Posts: 3539
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:15 pm

Re: Nuclear weapons prohibited

Tue Aug 01, 2017 8:38 am

NLCFFX wrote:
Great, if only he world was that simple, only when Iran, North Korea, Pakistan, India, and ISIS all sign it, it may be worth something. The greatest risk comes not from the USA, Russia, or China but from countries either seeking wider conflict or with dictatorial leadership that will preserve their position at ANY cost.


It is only the US were you find small minds that think they could do a nuclear attack and survive the resultant blowback.
( apparently regularly reborn small minds from the 50ties. )

For all other nations having nuclear capability, even the bigger ones like the RF and China, it is
more or less an insurance against imperial vandalism. ( I am not sure about Israel. )
Murphy is an optimist
 
WIederling
Posts: 3539
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:15 pm

Re: Nuclear weapons prohibited

Tue Aug 01, 2017 8:50 am

Planeflyer wrote:
......................


Looks like you are a perfect specimen of the Dunning Kruger effect.
Additionally your views portray why this is eminently dangerous for a global peaceful coexistence
as judging by your posts you would go to war happily
with a song on your lips, sent by those leading from behind,
to fix the worlds injustices that exist in your perception only.
Murphy is an optimist
 
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Dutchy
Topic Author
Posts: 2829
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: Nuclear weapons prohibited

Tue Aug 01, 2017 8:50 am

For Israel is it a matter of survival. All more or less hostile nations in the region.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
WIederling
Posts: 3539
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:15 pm

Re: Nuclear weapons prohibited

Tue Aug 01, 2017 9:01 am

Dutchy wrote:
For Israel is it a matter of survival. All more or less hostile nations in the region.


MY issue is that they never did anything to take the steam out this conflict.

After WWII they got gifted the area without consent ( or ever being asked )
of the regional population. This gift carries an obligation.
( and don't tell me it is theirs after having gone away for 2000 years.
nowhere else is this accepted to allow repossession.
US, Amerind natives taking back their nations anyone? :-)

Attaining nuclear capabilities was defensive in the beginning.
But in the last 2+ decades Israel has turned into an Apartheid Regime
that is busily keeping the surrounding regions in turmoil.
Little bully on the block backed up by a big global bully.
Murphy is an optimist
 
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Dutchy
Topic Author
Posts: 2829
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: Nuclear weapons prohibited

Tue Aug 01, 2017 9:05 am

tommy1808 wrote:
Planeflyer wrote:
A great example of this the Balkans. Diplomatic efforts spearheaded by the EU and UN led to genocide.


You may want to fresh up your knowledge about recent history...

Some nations torpedoing the EU and UN efforts by secretly providing weapons to extremists on both sides may have a LOT to do with what happened on the Balkans.

How about the US involvement in Iran breaking the weapons embargo. The Croatians, law abiding as they where, even asked the US ambassador directly if buying weapons from Iran would violate the weapons embargo.....

http://www.nytimes.com/1996/05/29/world ... ml?mcubz=0

Or the US having AWACS turn a blind eye towards weapons shipments, applying pressure on UNPROFOR to keep that out of reports, silencing Norwegian officials that did eventually speak up
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/ ... es.comment

That story is interessting because the Pentagon was arming Muslim "fighters", while the CIA tried to work against them. That is a pretty good way to get a war going.

Not that other Intelligence Service didn´t know what was going on, and did nothing though....

best regards
Thomas


One of the reasons Russia feels threatened - doesn't matter if it is just a projection or real - is the way the west dealt with the former Yugoslavia or more precisely Kosovo.

War should be the real last resort and should be for a just cause. Iraq wasn't and everyone whom was half informed knew it at the time, Afghanistan was for instance. If you want to intervene in a sovereign country there needs an iron class case and preferably world would be unanimously in the action taken and a good plan to deal with the aftermath and the political will to say there for the next 20 years. That's how long it takes or sometimes even longer than that. One just have to look at the Iraq, Afghanistan or Libyan example to access what can go wrong.

The UN isn't perfect, but it is the best we have.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
WIederling
Posts: 3539
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:15 pm

Re: Nuclear weapons prohibited

Tue Aug 01, 2017 9:27 am

"Afghanistan was for instance."

Not in this timeline.
The ISI ( under guidance from the CIA ) created Taliban ( talib ~= pupil, war orphans from the earlier Afghan conflict ) bit their masters hand and denied pipeline rights to "interested parties". ( obviously not the only reason, but one in a set of .. )

All about having access/control over resources and the transport passages for same.
Having control is a much stronger motivator than freely accessing them.
Murphy is an optimist
 
Flighty
Posts: 8613
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:07 am

Re: Nuclear weapons prohibited

Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:54 pm

I guess this is a sign that the UN supports strong military campaigns to immediately invade Iran, Israel, North Korea and destroy all leaders of those countries. Is that correct? Or what is their point exactly?
 
tommy1808
Posts: 5996
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Nuclear weapons prohibited

Wed Aug 02, 2017 9:41 am

Flighty wrote:
I guess this is a sign that the UN supports strong military campaigns to immediately invade Iran, Israel, North Korea and destroy all leaders of those countries. Is that correct? Or what is their point exactly?


i would recommend reading the UN Charta ... .waging wars of aggression isn´t exactly in their job description

Nuclear disarmament ist already a stated goal of the NNTP, only that the nuclear power don´t do much to fulfill their treaty obligations... yet no one has been invaded.

best regards
Thomas
Times are changing: 70 years ago the USA went to war to defeat the Nazis, now they elect them to run their country.

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