Ozair
Posts: 1656
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 8:38 am

Re: Canada may cancel F18 deal

Wed Sep 20, 2017 9:34 pm

Some more commentary from Canadian press. While F models would fetch a higher price the FMS order covered only 8 F variants of the 18 requested airframes.

If Canada ever buys Boeing Super Hornet jet fighters, it would be better off with the two-seat variant because they would fetch a better price on the resale market, military planners told the commander of the air force earlier this year.

An internal defence department analysis, obtained by CBC News, also spells out clearly that the 18 warplanes Canada hoped to buy would not be kept once a permanent replacement is purchased for the existing fleet of CF-18s.

The Liberal government has been decidedly opaque on that point since announcing last year it was exploring a sole-source deal.

But the documents, dated Jan. 26, 2017, leave no doubt what would happen to the jets.

"Canada would be required to dispose of the Super Hornets once the permanent fighter replacement fleet was acquired for the RCAF," said the analysis. "Initial information suggest that the resale value of the two-seat FA-18F aircraft would be higher than that of the single-seat FA-18E model."

Past attempts to pin down Defence Minister Harjit Sajjan on the question of how long the air force would fly the Super Hornets was met with a vague response: "The interim fleet is there for the interim period."

Even though they would be more expensive to purchase, dual-seat Super Hornets would provide the air force "with greater flexibility," particularly in complex bombing missions, the documents said.



The entire Super Hornet plan is on shaky political ground because of the trade dispute between Boeing and Bombardier.

The documents, however, cast more doubt on the wisdom of the stopgap purchase, especially in light of last week's recommendation by the U.S. State Department.

Canada won't do business with Boeing while it's 'busy trying to sue us,' Trudeau says
Super Hornet deal still up in the air despite green light in Washington
The agency that oversees foreign military sales in Washington gave Canada the green light to buy both single and dual-seat Super Hornets and estimated the price tag for 18 fighters at $6.3 billion.

Critics have argued it is a lot of money to spend on jets that would be sold off after being flown for perhaps as little as a decade.

US Navy Flight Line crew on Super Hornets
A U.S. navy flight line technician prepares a Super Hornet for flight at the U.S. Naval Air Station Oceana, Virginia Beach, Va., in January.
Defence analyst Dave Perry said he was surprised that resale value would be a consideration.

"We're not collecting used cars," he said. "This is just adding to the silliness of the enterprise."

http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/politics/super-hornet-jet-fighters-sales-1.4297528
 
cumulushumilis
Posts: 116
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2016 8:49 pm

Re: Canada may cancel F18 deal

Wed Sep 20, 2017 10:10 pm

If the government and RCAF were smart they would do what the Australians did and prewire some of their early build airframes for future upgrade to the EA--18G Growler standard. Something tells me that 10 year old airframes are not going to command much of a price on the open market. Having a future electronic warfare capability could make the F models attractive to allied nations seeking that capability.
 
johns624
Posts: 1535
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:09 pm

Re: Canada may cancel F18 deal

Wed Sep 20, 2017 10:42 pm

Once again, Canada appears to be kicking the can down the road in defense procurement. First, the destroyers, then the replenishment ships, then the Arctic patrol ships, now the F35...what next?
 
bmacleod
Posts: 2828
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2001 3:10 am

Re: Canada may cancel F18 deal

Tue Oct 17, 2017 12:33 pm

In light of the Bombardier/Airbus deal how will this affect the stalled F/A-18 Super Hornet negotiations?

More likely will we see Canada buying the jets from Boeing or the U.S. government? (Import/Export Bank?)
"What good are wings without the courage to fly?" - Atticus
 
ExMilitaryEng
Posts: 55
Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 7:12 pm

Re: Canada may cancel F18 deal

Tue Oct 17, 2017 2:09 pm

bmacleod wrote:
In light of the Bombardier/Airbus deal how will this affect the stalled F/A-18 Super Hornet negotiations?


This procurement of new SH was just a total / monumental waste of money to begin with. A few weeks ago, "ThePointBlank" explained extremely well that this capability gap was a just a political invention by the liberals.

I just wish we just don't buy any interim fighters, and concentrate our legacy F18 flying on strict minimum NORAD/Homeland security duties (up to when wings start to come off...), and stop using them for NATO duties. Anyways, our NATO contribution would be way more appreciated/useful via an increase of land forces in the Baltic region

With the heavy bully / protectionist twist of current US administration (those 300% CSeries duties, NAFTA negotiations insane demands, softwood lumber continuous bullying etc), I see a possible strategic shift of Canadian trade toward Europe - were we have a free trade agreement in place.

Furthermore, with Airbus 50.01% equity in the CSeries (and its commitment to expand the Montreal area aerospace cluster), I now see the Canadian government siding / partnering way more with Airbus than Boeing.

IMHO, we just witnessed, overnight, a monumental shift of aerospace allegiance of one of the US closest ally. What a disastrous industrial turn of events (from a US point of view).

So, I believe a SH procurement in even more remote now than before. (The liberals will definitely use Boeing's predatory behavior as a pretext to escape that stupid political commitment of interim fighters).

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

YOU HAVE NO IDEA of the monumental perception damage Boeing created to itself, north of the border. By example, Quebec, which used to be the most US friendly province in Canada (we kind of forced the original US free trade agreement onto Ontario) seems now on a mission to cause the most damage possible to Boeing. (That's what I'm hearing, even in Ottawa, where I work) Just look look at Quebec gvt push to get the CSeries in Airbus's hand.
 
bmacleod
Posts: 2828
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2001 3:10 am

Re: Canada may cancel F18 deal

Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:53 pm

bmacleod wrote:
In light of the Bombardier/Airbus deal how will this affect the stalled F/A-18 Super Hornet negotiations?

More likely will we see Canada buying the jets from Boeing or the U.S. government? (Import/Export Bank?)


There are also used Australian F-18s but I don't think they 'd have enough years left to meet Canada's NATO/operational needs...

https://globalnews.ca/news/3796770/australian-jets-for-canada-experts-say-it-could-work/

And it's not like we haven't been down this road before.

10-12 years ago Canada was against the US-led Iraq war but still ordered US-built Boeing C-17s for needed strategic lift capability.
"What good are wings without the courage to fly?" - Atticus
 
WIederling
Posts: 4022
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:15 pm

Re: Canada may cancel F18 deal

Wed Oct 18, 2017 4:03 pm

ThePointblank wrote:
And remember, the F-22 has about 1.7 million lines of code to do what it can do. The F-35 has 8 million lines of code. The F-35's simulator requires 10 million lines of code.


Lines of code are on occasion more indicative of bloat than anything else.
Look at Microsofts OS offering : what do you get : faster waiting, more bugs.

If you need your hardware to be criss crossed with excessive bandwidth you have not
understood the data reduction task that has been set.
( you see one aspect of that in NSA snooping. their solution to any new problem
invariably is : "store more info". That does not work all that well. They lack the brains
to understand what they store. Mana is in data reduction! )
Murphy is an optimist

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