Official: Dutch government buys a 737BBJ as Fokker 70 replacement

MrGtheSheepA346 · Tue Apr 04, 2017 4:45 pm

News just came in that the Dutch government will buy a Boeing 737BBJ (version not specified yet) to replace the Fokker 70. The registration of the BBJ is going to be "PH-GOV", wit GOV referring to 'government'. The plane will accommodate 24 seats. http://www.nu.nl/binnenland/4594671/nederland-koopt-boeing-737-als-nieuw-regeringsvliegtuig.html.

Iemand91 · Tue Apr 04, 2017 5:09 pm

No surprise here. With the King already getting type-rated for the 737 everyone knew they would choose the 737.
Would make sense though. I can be flown by KLM crew and the only options in that case are the Embraer Lineage 1000 or 737 BBJ.
(I wouldn't make a lot of sense to get a full business A330/A350 or 777/787 BBJ would it. :lol:

)

AMS18C36C · Tue Apr 04, 2017 5:33 pm

Not surprising indeed. Will this be an NG-version of MAX-version? KLM operates the NG-variant of the 737, so my guess would be the former.

MrGtheSheepA346 · Tue Apr 04, 2017 5:40 pm

Iemand91 wrote:
No surprise here. With the King already getting type-rated for the 737 everyone knew they would choose the 737.
Would make sense though. I can be flown by KLM crew and the only options in that case are the Embraer Lineage 1000 or 737 BBJ.
(I wouldn't make a lot of sense to get a full business A330/A350 or 777/787 BBJ would it. )

What about a 747-8BBJ?

MrGtheSheepA346 · Tue Apr 04, 2017 5:42 pm

AMS18C36C wrote:
Not surprising indeed. Will this be an NG-version of MAX-version? KLM operates the NG-variant of the 737, so my guess would be the former.

AFAIK there is no MAX BBJ (yet)

Iemand91 · Tue Apr 04, 2017 5:57 pm

MrGtheSheepA346 wrote:
Iemand91 wrote:
No surprise here. With the King already getting type-rated for the 737 everyone knew they would choose the 737.
Would make sense though. I can be flown by KLM crew and the only options in that case are the Embraer Lineage 1000 or 737 BBJ.
(I wouldn't make a lot of sense to get a full business A330/A350 or 777/787 BBJ would it. )

What about a 747-8BBJ?

That would be amazing. And a dozen or so 747-8i on the side for KLM. :lol:

And to be clear; it's the government aircraft which (a small) part of the royal family can use. It's not their own plane/toy to play with as a lot of people/media like to put it al the time.
Only flown by the current King and Queen, and the former Queen Beatrix.

To give some numbers:

- In 2006 the Dutch Ministry of Infrastructure and the Environment have stated the Fokker F70 had flown an average of 466 hour per year the last years.

- Since our current King took the throne; the royal family uses the aircraft less than before and the Dutch government uses it more.
In the first year of his reign the cabinet used it twice as much as before (when we had the queen) totaling 40 flights, mostly by the Prime Minister Mark Rutte and Jeroen Dijsselbloem; the latter in his capacity as of president of the Eurogroup.

- In 2014 14% of flights where by the royal family, 86% by the government.

- In 2014 the royal family flew 56% on regular scheduled flights, 28% with the Fokker and 16% with Militairy aircraft or rental.

- In 2015, 88% of the flights where flown by cabinet members, 12% by the royal family.

- For the year 2016, they estimed 75 flying hours for the royal family at €5.590 per hour (totalling €419.250)

* Royal House and Royal family are not the same thing.

MrGtheSheepA346 · Tue Apr 04, 2017 6:37 pm

Iemand91 wrote:
MrGtheSheepA346 wrote:
Iemand91 wrote:
No surprise here. With the King already getting type-rated for the 737 everyone knew they would choose the 737.
Would make sense though. I can be flown by KLM crew and the only options in that case are the Embraer Lineage 1000 or 737 BBJ.
(I wouldn't make a lot of sense to get a full business A330/A350 or 777/787 BBJ would it. )

What about a 747-8BBJ?

And to be clear; it's the government aircraft which (a small) part of the royal family can use. It's not their own plane/toy to play with as a lot of people/media like to put it al the time.
Only flown by the current King and Queen, and the former Queen Beatrix.

To give some numbers:

- In 2006 the Dutch Ministry of Infrastructure and the Environment have stated the Fokker F70 had flown an average of 466 hour per year the last years.

- Since our current King took the throne; the royal family uses the aircraft less than before and the Dutch government uses it more.
In the first year of his reign the cabinet used it twice as much as before (when we had the queen) totaling 40 flights, mostly by the Prime Minister Mark Rutte and Jeroen Dijsselbloem; the latter in his capacity as of president of the Eurogroup.

- In 2014 14% of flights where by the royal family, 86% by the government.

- In 2014 the royal family flew 56% on regular scheduled flights, 28% with the Fokker and 16% with Militairy aircraft or rental.

- In 2015, 88% of the flights where flown by cabinet members, 12% by the royal family.

- For the year 2016, they estimed 75 flying hours for the royal family at €5.590 per hour (totalling €419.250)

* Royal House and Royal family are not the same thing.

I know, I'm dutch myself hehe

PatrickZ80 · Tue Apr 04, 2017 7:30 pm

airzona11 wrote:
Would love to see it painted in an orange livery, like that KLM 77W. Very cool the King is getting type rated to fly it. It is good to be king! What is the home airport for this plane?

Mostly Amsterdam I believe and occasionally Rotterdam, same as the current Fokker.

petertenthije · Tue Apr 04, 2017 7:55 pm

Sand0rf wrote:
Some rumours say the Fokker is already sold to Alliance Airlines in Australia

That would be a shame. In my opinion PH-KBX should go to the Aviodrome museum at Lelystad or the National Military Museum at Soesterberg.

LJ · Tue Apr 04, 2017 8:15 pm

airzona11 wrote:
Would love to see it painted in an orange livery, like that KLM 77W. Very cool the King is getting type rated to fly it. It is good to be king! What is the home airport for this plane?

It will be based at AMS just as the F70 but mostly flown out of Rotterdam as it's closer to The Hague (it flies regulary empty flights between AMS and RTM).

BTW the public can say goodbye on June 3rd at Woensdrecht. One can go into the PH-KBX (at least that's what I get out of the letter the Minister wrote to Parliament) and see how our King (and other governement employees) travels.

FrancisBegbie · Tue Apr 04, 2017 8:24 pm

airzona11 wrote:
Would love to see it painted in an orange livery, like that KLM 77W. Very cool the King is getting type rated to fly it. It is good to be king! What is the home airport for this plane?

The King used fly the F70 BBJ too and the story is that he kept himself current on the type by flying co-pilot for KLM Cityhopper once in a while. (I'd guess silently and only identifiable by a few broad-shouldered guys with suits and sunglasses on row 1 :lol:

)

A388 · Tue Apr 04, 2017 8:27 pm

I also agree this F70 plane should have gone to the museum in Lelystad or military museum in Soesterberg especially seeing that this aircraft type isn't build anymore and it's a piece of Dutch engineering flown by the Royal Family and government of the Netherlands.

A388

Dutchy · Tue Apr 04, 2017 8:35 pm

Willem has his new toy. Congrads to him. I had hope for an A319, but the 737 is fine. I guess they wanted more range to get them to Argentina with one stop to visit the Videla minister.

It will be delivered in 2019 in the meantime capacity is rented, the F70 will leave in may.

keesje · Tue Apr 04, 2017 11:00 pm

The F70 has been basically unsuitable for its government rol. It had to be ferried over to other parts of the world, with fuel stops. The BBJs/ ACJs are much more practical. Thats why many governments have them.

Devilfish · Wed Apr 05, 2017 3:07 am

Iemand91 wrote:
No surprise here.

It's a shock! :shock:

What becomes of the Fokker F130 now? :confused:

TOGA10 · Wed Apr 05, 2017 8:04 am

Dutchy wrote:
Willem has his new toy. Congrads to him. I had hope for an A319, but the 737 is fine. I guess they wanted more range to get them to Argentina with one stop to visit the Videla minister.

It will be delivered in 2019 in the meantime capacity is rented, the F70 will leave in may.

A319 would have made no sense at all. Or they would have start to crew it with easyJet pilots and let the king fly with them every now and then. Seeing how big they are getting at AMS, might have been a good idea ;-)

.
Congrats to the royal family, finally a decent aircraft.

Noshow · Wed Apr 05, 2017 9:06 am

It's the best that can happen: Some smart King with a love for aviation. Modern democracies plus monarchy seem to work quite well. I'd say they pay for themselves by providing live long service and some good and well respected image for their country. They are absolutely different from oligarch and internet billionaires lifestyles and closer tied to their countries compared to bureaucrats and elected politicians. I'd say keep them in any case. But I'm not Dutch.

And they don't use the Royal aircraft themselves that much if you look at the statistics posted above.

SXI899 · Wed Apr 05, 2017 9:56 am

TOGA10 wrote:
A319 would have made no sense at all.

The idea that I heard was that an A319 would have been crewed by the RNLAF. I'd assume that the crews would have been CCQ with the A330 tankers.

Luxair747SP · Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:59 pm

Dutchy wrote:
Willem has his new toy. Congrads to him. I had hope for an A319, but the 737 is fine. I guess they wanted more range to get them to Argentina with one stop to visit the Videla minister.

It will be delivered in 2019 in the meantime capacity is rented, the F70 will leave in may.

So that could be KL aircraft?
Another question, nowadays the members of the Kings family, are they also flying commercial?
If yes I bet, they try as much as possible not to rent in capacity until the BBJ arrives.

MrGtheSheepA346 · Wed Apr 05, 2017 3:15 pm

Luxair747SP wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Willem has his new toy. Congrads to him. I had hope for an A319, but the 737 is fine. I guess they wanted more range to get them to Argentina with one stop to visit the Videla minister.

It will be delivered in 2019 in the meantime capacity is rented, the F70 will leave in may.

So that could be KL aircraft?
Another question, nowadays the members of the Kings family, are they also flying commercial?
If yes I bet, they try as much as possible not to rent in capacity until the BBJ arrives.

When the royal family visited Australia last year, they flew on Emirates (so commercial). And for short-haul they could use the Gulfstream IV of the Dutch Air Force, it has enough range and capacity.

LJ · Wed Apr 05, 2017 8:14 pm

Luxair747SP wrote:
So that could be KL aircraft?

No, KL doesn't have any spare aircraft. They'll probably hire a Gulstream or something similar if the RNAF GIV is unavailable, or fly commercial.

Luxair747SP wrote:

Another question, nowadays the members of the Kings family, are they also flying commercial? [/quote]
Yes, all their trips to Argentina have been on commercial flights (usually KL or AF). Moreover, long haul is basically always on commercial flights. However, they use the F70 on their annual trip to Lech.

dcajet · Wed Apr 05, 2017 9:28 pm

Dutchy wrote:
Willem has his new toy. Congrads to him. I had hope for an A319, but the 737 is fine. I guess they wanted more range to get them to Argentina with one stop to visit the Videla minister.

I think that is a cheap shot. Maxima had no saying about what her father did during the Videla years (she was around 6 years old then). And for the record, Mr Zorreguieta was Secretary of Agriculture during those years (1976-1981), not that he was into anything related with the repression machinery. Lets make no mistake, the military junta in Argentina was despicable and committed unspeakable crimes, but not everyone involved with running the country during those years has blood in his hands.

King Willem only goes to Argentina once a year, and it is for Christmas; Queen Maxima does visit her country of birth more often, and they both fly on KLM's nonstop service between Schiphol and Ezeiza, and a private jet to fly south to Villa La Angostura, where Maxima's family has a ranch where they spend the Holidays.

Apologies for the off topic.

Dutchy · Thu Apr 06, 2017 7:00 am

In Dutch: https://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2017/04/05/de ... 3-a1553263

Some details:
- The PH-GOV will be outfitted in Woensdrecht by Fokker Services, like the BBJ for Thailand.
- The BBJ will be a new build
- It will arrive in The Netherlands in 2018
- The interieur will be 'standard'
- Cost: 89m

st21 · Thu Apr 06, 2017 7:49 pm

Will the BBJ be operated by the RNLAF on behalf of the Dutch government?

Dutchy · Thu Apr 06, 2017 10:11 pm

st21 wrote:
Will the BBJ be operated by the RNLAF on behalf of the Dutch government?

No, it will be civilian operated and registered. The Fokker F70 is operated by crew of KLM cityhopper, so I guess the 737 will be operated by regular KLM crew. The Gulfstream IVSP is operated by the Royal Netherlands Air Force and is military registered, V-11.

https://www.royal-house.nl/members-roya ... nts/flying

KLM City Hopper, which currently operates flights by members of the Dutch government, recently announced that it will no longer fly Fokker 70s (FK70) after 2017. This means it will no longer have the personnel capacity (including pilots and ground crew) to provide crews and maintenance for the government aeroplane after mid-2017.

As can be aspected, the far left SP-politicus - Ronald van Raak MP - said the government intends to spend too much on the new 737. Second hand options seems to be a better fit according to van Raak.

http://www.luchtvaartnieuws.nl/nieuws/c ... jke-boeing

treetreeseven · Mon Apr 10, 2017 8:19 am

Dutchy wrote:
As can be aspected, the far left SP-politicus - Ronald van Raak MP - said the government intends to spend too much on the new 737. Second hand options seems to be a better fit according to van Raak.

http://www.luchtvaartnieuws.nl/nieuws/c ... jke-boeing

Hmm... a DC-9-30 would be quite a proletarian choice... :cloudnine:

Dutchy · Mon Apr 10, 2017 9:02 am

treetreeseven wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
As can be aspected, the far left SP-politicus - Ronald van Raak MP - said the government intends to spend too much on the new 737. Second hand options seems to be a better fit according to van Raak.

http://www.luchtvaartnieuws.nl/nieuws/c ... jke-boeing

Hmm... a DC-9-30 would be quite a proletarian choice...

yup, I have no problem with that. The Government needs a plane, so let them get one.

Sand0rf · Tue Apr 11, 2017 6:23 am

The current airplane, PH-KBX, has been sold to Alliance Airlines in Australia for 3,7 million euro's

In Dutch: http://nos.nl/artikel/2167624-regerings ... -euro.html

Devilfish · Tue Apr 11, 2017 6:41 pm

Dutchy wrote:
The PH-GOV will be outfitted in Woensdrecht by Fokker Services

Guess this puts to rest any hopes of a Fokker revival... :tombstone:

...

http://www.aerotelegraph.com/wp-content ... nsicht.jpg

A pity that the once esteemed Fokker name is reduced to outfitting others' aircraft.

Dutchy wrote:
- Cost: 89m

In retrospect, continuous injections of Government funds into the company would have cost a whole lot more than this.

treetreeseven wrote:
Hmm... a DC-9-30 would be quite a proletarian choice...

As would the Sukhoi Superjet... :wink2:

...

Sand0rf wrote:
The current airplane, PH-KBX, has been sold to Alliance Airlines in Australia for 3,7 million euros

Maybe we should have looked into that as a replacement for the geriatric F-28... :old:

bunumuring · Wed Apr 12, 2017 10:19 am

Hey guys,
The Fokker 70 in question did in fact transport the Dutch King around Australia recently.
The King may have indeed flown commercially in Emirates to Australia' but he definitely flew via Fokker within Australia.
Obivously Alliance had a good look at the Fokker while it was here.... I'm guessing that they did the maintenance on it and liked what they saw....
Cheers,
Bunumuring

TasosANG · Thu May 11, 2017 10:04 am

What is the main reason that the Fokker is leaving? Has something to do that the F 70 will leave from Cityhopper, so no crew available in the near future?

Iemand91 · Thu May 11, 2017 10:30 am

TasosANG wrote:
What is the main reason that the Fokker is leaving? Has something to do that the F 70 will leave from Cityhopper, so no crew available in the near future?

Yes. KLM Cityhopper end Fokker operations on Oktober 29, 2017. KLM Cityhopper is responsible for the operations of the Fokker PH-KBX
(crew, maintenance etc.)
That's why the government Fokker has to leave, sadly at the end of this month.

Iemand91 · Thu May 11, 2017 11:06 am

Oh, and to add with the previous post (I really hate the fact that you can't edit your post here after a view minutes):

On June 3rd; 3750 people who have applied (3000 originally; 750 more added when it became known it was hugely popular) ; can look at/photograph
(or take a selfie with :roll:

) the Fokker when it's shown off at Woensdrecht Air Base. After that at some point it will be flown to Australia where it will fly for Alliance Airlines who bought it for €3.7 million.
Very sad this piece of Dutch history doesn't stay in the Netherlands for public viewing. Really a shame if you ask me.

Iemand91 · Wed May 17, 2017 10:41 am

King Willem-Alexander flew his last Fokker 70 flight yesterday to and from Stavanger.
At the end of this month he will start training for the 737.

The Dutch newspaper De Telegraaf has printed an interview with him today.
It's behind a paywall but weirdly enough; I did found the entire interview on the web.

Some points - necessary and unnecessary ones - for the non-Dutch or lazy

:

- He flies for KLM about twice a month and he has to make 150 flying hours per year.
- Because he switches to the 737 he's also leaving the KLM subsidairy Cityhopper after 21 years.
- He has a scale model of the KLM 777-300ER PH-BVA #OrangePride in his office in the Noordeinde Palace.

- In general; he's isn't really recognized. Before 9/11 when the cockpit door wasn't closed; people would come up to the cockpit and were surprised he was there. After 9/11 he's less recognized, mostly because he addresses the passengers on behave of the Captain and the rest of the crew; so he doesn't have to say his name.
- The Fokker simulator will also go to Australia.
- He and his wife also collect the Delft Blue Miniature houses.
- He again states his type-rating for the 737 has nothing to do with the decision for the 737 as the new government plane. He can't fly the wide-body planes (he would be away to long) so that leaves him with either the Embraers or the 737 after it became known the Fokkers were out at the end of this year. He choose the 737 because it serves different cities and somewhat longer flights with more passengers.
The decision for the 737 as the new government plane was made afterwards.
- He should be flying the 737 for KLM before the summer.

Iemand91 · Fri May 26, 2017 10:24 pm

The Fokker F70 PH-KBX has fulfilled her official duties. She was flown from Amsterdam to Woensdrecht last Wednesday.
On Saterday June 3rd, she will be on view for those 3750 people who were lucky enough to be able to sign in for the event.
They will have the opportunity to view the aircraft from the outside. The cabin will remain closed.

PH-KBX has served her role for 21 years and was one of the few government aircraft designed, built and maintained by it's own country.

PH-KBX at Woensdrecht last Wednesday evening:

Netherlands Government F70 PH-KBX by xjorrdy, on Flickr

Iemand91 · Sat May 27, 2017 11:14 am

Most likely the last ever takeoff from Amsterdam on Wednesday:

170524 PH-KBX F70 Netherlands Government (last flight out of Schiphol) by mzunguwamap, on Flickr

Iemand91 · Tue May 30, 2017 3:06 pm

The Dutch Ministry of Infrastructure and the Environment has made a concept livery for the new 737BBJ:

So boring and dull compared to the previous one:

Dutchy · Tue May 30, 2017 3:51 pm

This is a joke right? That is plane ugly.......

Can't believe someone looked at that and said, "yeah we definitely need to go with that"

We need a twitter campain in which everyone can submit a great livery.

Devilfish · Tue May 30, 2017 8:09 pm

That is a big letdown for a country renowned for its art. It is what happens when you entrust something to a government committee. The Netherlands' Old Masters must be stirring in their graves. :ghost:

Iemand91 · Sat Jun 03, 2017 8:03 pm

Iemand91 wrote:
On Saterday June 3rd, she will be on view for those 3750 people who were lucky enough to be able to sign in for the event.
They will have the opportunity to view the aircraft from the outside. The cabin will remain closed.

Iemand91 · Thu Aug 03, 2017 9:26 am

The Fokker 70 PH-KBX has been at Woensdrecht Air Force Base at Fokker Services since May 24.
It's scheduled to leave Woensdrecht in about 30 minutes (around noon) for Brisbane Australia where it will join the Alliance Airlines fleet.
Flight route is via United Arab Emirates, India, Malaysia, Indonesia and Australia and will take about 5 days.
It will be flown by the Dutch Southern Cross International company who specializes in these kind of flights.
It will be carrying out VIP flights and will get the new registration VH-KBX.

This means that after 21 years; this Fokker will leave Dutch soil forever (a very little chance for it to come back to Fokker Services at Woensdrecht, but I doubt it)

170603 PH-KBX F70 Netherlands Government by mzunguwamap, on Flickr

This is it for one of the very few government aircraft designed, build and maintened in it's own country...

Dutchy · Thu Aug 03, 2017 9:40 am

Perhaps it will come back when Alliance Airlines is done with it (fingers crossed)

Tugger · Fri Aug 04, 2017 3:45 pm

Iemand91 wrote:
The Dutch Ministry of Infrastructure and the Environment has made a concept livery for the new 737BBJ:

So boring and dull compared to the previous one:

What?!? No one has come forth with a better alternative to this? This is A.net, I thought for sure we'd have several people showing their own concepts.

Tugg

Dutchy · Fri Aug 04, 2017 3:55 pm

I don't possess the skills to do this, but I have indeed seen some beautiful proposals from people on A-net. Should not be too hard to do a better one than the official.

Iemand91 · Thu Apr 26, 2018 8:52 pm

Yesterday, the new 737BBJ landed at Woensdrecht, directly from Georgetown (GED).
Will go to Ostrava for the paintjob and then back to Woensdrecht for cabin work.
Will be delivered next year.

https://www.airliners.net/photo/Untitled ... wubg%3D%3D

TasosANG · Thu May 03, 2018 8:41 am

Iemand91 wrote:
The Dutch Ministry of Infrastructure and the Environment has made a concept livery for the new 737BBJ:

So boring and dull compared to the previous one:

Pity, i was expecting better. Here in Holland i have seen better examples of design. Not totally bad at least. I like this vertical area with the coat of arm, but why all this gray behind? Is a civilian plane after all and the royal jet for the “ huis van Oranje”. A little orange more will be very welcomed

ptrjong · Thu May 03, 2018 10:36 am

Orange isn't considered a classy colour, it's commonly used by cheaper brands like Easyjet.

TasosANG · Thu May 03, 2018 11:19 am

ptrjong wrote:
Orange isn't considered a classy colour, it's commonly used by cheaper brands like Easyjet.

Fully agreed here, may be I didn’t express my self very well before. The fact is that is the national color of the country. So you can’t really avoid it in such plane at least. But you can used in combination with other colors and in the correct portions to have a nice result

TasosANG · Thu May 03, 2018 11:22 am

Holland has good examples of fresh and bright liveries on a lot of thinks, trains, KLM, even some bus companies and the police cars. This one is a bit of sad.

vfw614 · Thu May 03, 2018 11:57 am

I guess the grey sort of symbolizes that it is a military plane as well, not just an expensive toy for the royal family and top government brass.

Who is online

Popular Searches On Airliners.net