prebennorholm
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Me 109 found in Denmark

Tue Mar 07, 2017 6:58 pm

Yesterday a Luftwaffe Me 109 was found by 14 years old Daniel Kristiansen with a metal detector in a swamp on his dad's farm. Site is some 20 km N-W of Aalborg airport, which was a major Luftwaffe base during WW2.

The plane is believed to be a 109G-6 which crashed on 17 November 1944. Remains of the pilot - believed to be Oberfeldwebel Brono Krüger - is with the plane, of which major parts were found as deep at 5 meter below surface. It can also be another Me 109 which crashed on 27 November. At that time Luftwaffe planes were raining as a hailstorm on Danish soil.

Daniel's great-grandfather (at that time owner of the farm) had told that he actually heard the plane crash back in 1944.

The German embassy has been contacted so they can arrange funeral of the pilot. For that reason and for the fear of live ammunition the excavation has been temporarily halted, and the crash site has been blocked off from the public.

Some major parts of the plane can be seen here: http://www.tv2nord.dk/artikel/daniel-er ... paa-marken

It crashed during a training flight, and it wasn't combat related. It is believed that the pilot stalled the plane in a turn while lining up for landing at Aalborg. And from 1-2000 feet altitude it went mostly vertically down.
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
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N14AZ
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Re: Me 109 found in Denmark

Wed Mar 08, 2017 2:03 pm

Just read about this story, article in German language.
http://www.n-tv.de/panorama/Junge-finde ... 34595.html

The crash was months before the end of the war, they believe the pilot was young and not sufficiently trained.... :-(
 
prebennorholm
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Re: Me 109 found in Denmark

Wed Mar 08, 2017 7:27 pm

It has now been found out that the pilot was not Bruno Krüger. He disappeared somewhere else.

The Historic Museum of Northern Jutland refuses to tell the correct identity of the pilot. They have handed all their new information over to the German Embassy, and they let the German authorities check the facts instead of once more jumping to a faulty conclusion.
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
agill
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Re: Me 109 found in Denmark

Thu Mar 09, 2017 8:45 am

Who will own the plane that has been found?
 
VSMUT
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Re: Me 109 found in Denmark

Thu Mar 09, 2017 3:12 pm

agill wrote:
Who will own the plane that has been found?


The owner of the land I would presume.
 
prebennorholm
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Re: Me 109 found in Denmark

Fri Mar 10, 2017 3:27 am

agill wrote:
Who will own the plane that has been found?

Huh, this is little but a pile of scrap metal. In principle it belongs to the Danish National Museum in Copenhagen, but I doubt they are interested.

Maybe a few minor objects will be on display at the local museum. The engine could maybe end up at the Danish Aircraft Museum. But otherwise the finder may do whatever he wants with the rest, I would imagine.

This country is littered with remains of crashed WW2 planes. they are there by the thousands on those less twenty thousand square miles being the total size of the country. So not that many square miles without a WW2 crash site. Have a look at http://www.flensted.eu.com/ The left hand menu lists all known WW2 crashes ordered by date.

Many crash sites have been made into war graves where any excavation of course is forbidden. This one being one of the more prominent: http://www.ee138.net/

This latest find is special because the crash site was unknown for 72 years. Luftwaffe declared it as disappeared (many planes disappeared in the sea). It was only found because a boy acted with his new metal detector on rumors passed from his great-granddad though uncle and dad.

Now the main issue is for the Germans to arrange a decent funeral, either at a war cemetery here in Denmark, or somewhere in Germany. Had it been known in advance that the site contained a whole plane and its pilot, then it might have become an unexcavated war memorial site instead.
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
diverted
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Re: Me 109 found in Denmark

Fri Mar 10, 2017 5:51 am

prebennorholm wrote:
agill wrote:
Who will own the plane that has been found?

Huh, this is little but a pile of scrap metal. In principle it belongs to the Danish National Museum in Copenhagen, but I doubt they are interested.

Maybe a few minor objects will be on display at the local museum. The engine could maybe end up at the Danish Aircraft Museum. But otherwise the finder may do whatever he wants with the rest, I would imagine.

This country is littered with remains of crashed WW2 planes. they are there by the thousands on those less twenty thousand square miles being the total size of the country. So not that many square miles without a WW2 crash site. Have a look at http://www.flensted.eu.com/ The left hand menu lists all known WW2 crashes ordered by date.

Many crash sites have been made into war graves where any excavation of course is forbidden. This one being one of the more prominent: http://www.ee138.net/

This latest find is special because the crash site was unknown for 72 years. Luftwaffe declared it as disappeared (many planes disappeared in the sea). It was only found because a boy acted with his new metal detector on rumors passed from his great-granddad though uncle and dad.

Now the main issue is for the Germans to arrange a decent funeral, either at a war cemetery here in Denmark, or somewhere in Germany. Had it been known in advance that the site contained a whole plane and its pilot, then it might have become an unexcavated war memorial site instead.


You'd be surprised...
I've seen a few Spitfires and Hurricane's under restoration that started as little more than a data plate. There's a place near me that has all the jigs and tools needed to construct Spitfire wings and more, all in house. And it seems that it's a profitable venture, as they've restored a number of them.

I see the 109 as no different. There's very few around these days, and fewer flying. A lot of the ones seen flying aren't 109's but Hispano's and Avia's, many of which were rebuilt with Daimler DB 605 engines to make them a bit more authentic.
 
prebennorholm
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Re: Me 109 found in Denmark

Sat Mar 11, 2017 4:08 am

I see the 109 as a very different plane - compared to Spitfire and Hurricane.

Especially Spitfire and Hurricane are very special symbols because they won the Battle of Britain and thereby saved much of Europe from slavery under the "Thousand Years Reich".

The 109 is just another WW2 plane which happens to be the most common Luftwaffe WW2 fighter. The reason why practically only Hispano and Avia examples are present today is also that they were much superior quality.

When WW2 ended, Denmark had become sort of "safe storage" for much of the rest of the fuel starved Luftwaffe. There was endless rows of all types of planes. There were thoughts to build a new Danish air force with some of those planes, but it was very soon abandoned. Luftwaffe pilots didn't dare to demonstrate the planes because they were such poor quality, extremely hastily built by mostly Polish, Ukrainian and Russian slave workers.

Except for a few Me 262 and Arado 234, which were shipped to Britain and America, they were all driven over by British tanks and sold as scrap metal.
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
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flyingturtle
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Re: Me 109 found in Denmark

Sat Mar 11, 2017 12:33 pm

agill wrote:
Who will own the plane that has been found?


In Germany, both the finder and the landlord get a 50% share of the object. In case of valuable historical artefacts, very often the government (resp. the ministry of research and education) has the right to buy them. If the government declines, the finder/landlord is free to do whatever he likes. In case of a Me 109, I doubt it's valuable enough.

If you happen to find something of a very high archeological value, you may be screwed. In the German state of Hessen, somebody found a bronze horse head of Roman origin. Experts are still debating the monetary value of that object - the higher the value, the more Hessen has to pay the finders, who could use the money to run a museum. The lower the value, the better for the government. And where do you find neutral experts who can testify about German archeological artefacts?

To a researcher, an artefact has a value of $0 because he does not want to sell it, and just wants it to be preserved, documented and accessible to further research.

To the finder...


David
Keeping calm is terrorism against those who want to live in fear.
 
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TheRealCamNeely
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Re: Me 109 found in Denmark

Wed Mar 15, 2017 11:06 pm

Not too long ago, a farmer in England found an old Knights Templar cave that is an estimated 700 years old on his property.

Now someone finds an Me-109! Due to Europe's age, there has to be lots of things buried on properties that have been lost to time. It's insane what people find.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Me 109 found in Denmark

Sun Mar 19, 2017 7:40 am

flyingturtle wrote:
In Germany, both the finder and the landlord get a 50% share of the object.


That is just Bavaria. All other those treasures belong to the state, finder and property owner get nothing.

Best regards
Thomas
Crooked Donald Trump an his team are extremely careless in their handling of very sensitive, highly classified information. Not fit! #muchworsethanclinton
 
prebennorholm
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Re: Me 109 found in Denmark

Mon Mar 20, 2017 2:52 am

This is in Denmark, so Danish law prevails. "Jutland Law" of year 1241:

What belongs to noone, is owned by the King. If a man finds gold or silver after a plow, or in any other way, then it shall be forwarded to the King.

This law was amended by royal decree in 1737 and 1752 to include anything of historic value and rarity, not just when made of gold or silver.

The King's representative is in this respect the managing director of the National Museum in Copenhagen. He will compensate the finder with the scrap value when the object has a significant value as scrap metal, such as gold coins or jewelry.

Since this country is filled with endless tonnes of scrap metal from Me 109's..... If a museum wants some more, then they will take it. The finder takes the rest.

They have found the pilot's wallet with Luftwaffe logo, including two Danish coins, a few sheets of cigaret paper and few other personal effects. And a book which is very hard to trace after 72 years in the swamp. The local museum will find out what it is after long lasting special treatment. Wild guesses range all way from Mein Kampf to The Bible, but it may also be an Me 109 pilot's handbook.
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
prebennorholm
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Re: Me 109 found in Denmark

Fri Mar 24, 2017 11:14 pm

Pilot has finally been identified: Hans Wunderlich, 19 years old, from a village named Neusorg in Bavaria close to the Czech border.

He has no close relatives. His only sibling, a sister, died 11 years ago without children.

He will therefore likely be put to rest at a German war cemetery here in Denmark.
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
VSMUT
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Re: Me 109 found in Denmark

Fri May 26, 2017 7:07 pm

And the 14-year old is now officially the owner of the wreckage:
http://www.dr.dk/nyheder/regionale/nord ... erdenskrig

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