lordarpad
Topic Author
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2008 5:23 pm

A600M

Sat Feb 25, 2017 9:47 pm

It strikes me that Europe could use a bigger airlifter eventually. Would a 6 engine Atlas work? Basically an Atlas + 50% ?
 
WIederling
Posts: 3088
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:15 pm

Re: A600M

Sat Feb 25, 2017 10:05 pm

That would be three twins, right?

I'd see an A200M as a slight upgrade to the Transall.
Twin with same engines and similar systems to the A400M
Murphy is an optimist
 
Ozair
Posts: 1498
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 8:38 am

Re: A600M

Sun Feb 26, 2017 10:02 am

lordarpad wrote:
It strikes me that Europe could use a bigger airlifter eventually. Would a 6 engine Atlas work? Basically an Atlas + 50% ?

Surely a jet makes sense when you start getting into that size range? Then you have to find a customer, I don't think France or Germany are interested in a larger transport, who do you see acquiring it?

WIederling wrote:
That would be three twins, right?

I'd see an A200M as a slight upgrade to the Transall.
Twin with same engines and similar systems to the A400M

The twin market is already pretty congested, I'm not sure there would be a business case for a twin A200M as it were, would also place it in competition with the C-295.
 
WIederling
Posts: 3088
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:15 pm

Re: A600M

Sun Feb 26, 2017 4:46 pm

C-295 ... is a 9t payload airframe.
A400M nominally 40t ( they'll get there :-)
A 20+t lifter would fit in well imho. ( The Transall has been in heavy use all around.)
Murphy is an optimist
 
VSMUT
Posts: 661
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:40 am

Re: A600M

Sun Feb 26, 2017 6:31 pm

IMHO, a simple stretch of the A400M makes more sense if a bigger airlifter is needed. Cooperation with Embraer on the KC-390 would be a better choice for a 20 ton freighter.
 
SCAT15F
Posts: 559
Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 8:34 am

Re: A600M

Sun Feb 26, 2017 10:33 pm

VSMUT wrote:
IMHO, a simple stretch of the A400M makes more sense if a bigger airlifter is needed. Cooperation with Embraer on the KC-390 would be a better choice for a 20 ton freighter.


Yes. Perhaps the addition of blended winglets would help too. Not that I don't think it would be cool, but six-engine transport would have to be pretty large to justify 6 engines given the fact that we are no longer limited by engine size these days. Even in the 1950's the capability existed for 20,000 hp turboprops (P&W T-57 growth versions). For instance, the Antonov An-225 today could easily be powered by four engines in the GE9X class...
 
Ozair
Posts: 1498
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 8:38 am

Re: A600M

Mon Feb 27, 2017 12:48 am

WIederling wrote:
C-295 ... is a 9t payload airframe.
A400M nominally 40t ( they'll get there :-)
A 20+t lifter would fit in well imho. ( The Transall has been in heavy use all around.)


Sure but what is the business case to develop a shortened version? Given how financially unviable the A400 has become for Airbus I cannot see them putting funding to this.

They would rather upsell customers to an A400 instead of competing with the C-130, KC-390 etc.
 
aviationaware
Posts: 1436
Joined: Mon May 19, 2014 12:02 pm

Re: A600M

Mon Feb 27, 2017 1:29 pm

Maybe get the A400M going properly before discussing something even bigger.
 
WIederling
Posts: 3088
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:15 pm

Re: A600M

Mon Feb 27, 2017 1:48 pm

Ozair wrote:
They would rather upsell customers to an A400 instead of competing with the C-130, KC-390 etc.


"America First" will shove quite a bit of competing products into the markets.
( As most everybody will switch over to Us First. )
Murphy is an optimist
 
Ozair
Posts: 1498
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 8:38 am

Re: A600M

Mon Feb 27, 2017 9:02 pm

WIederling wrote:

"America First" will shove quite a bit of competing products into the markets.
( As most everybody will switch over to Us First. )

It would be foolish of Airbus to invest 3-4 billion dollars into a program on the basis of a likely single term President. 4 years from now the pendulum will likely swing back and Airbus will be saddled with more A400 associated costs they will be unable to recover...
 
WIederling
Posts: 3088
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:15 pm

Re: A600M

Mon Feb 27, 2017 9:25 pm

Ozair wrote:
WIederling wrote:

"America First" will shove quite a bit of competing products into the markets.
( As most everybody will switch over to Us First. )

It would be foolish of Airbus to invest 3-4 billion dollars into a program on the basis of a likely single term President. 4 years from now the pendulum will likely swing back and Airbus will be saddled with more A400 associated costs they will be unable to recover...


I am not certain. But at the moment my judgement is that Trump ( actually the topping from the bottom minions behind him) will trash enough established patterns that the world will not be same after this experience. No return.
Murphy is an optimist
 
Nean1
Posts: 31
Joined: Mon May 30, 2016 11:08 pm

Re: A600M

Tue Feb 28, 2017 5:13 pm

What if the troublesome A-400 turboprops were replaced by the PW GTF?
 
mxaxai
Posts: 88
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2016 7:29 am

Re: A600M

Wed Mar 01, 2017 10:58 am

Nean1 wrote:
What if the troublesome A-400 turboprops were replaced by the PW GTF?

Or two Trent XWB. :duck:

As with any reengine, you would need to redo some structural elements. Due to the change Prop -> Jet flight characteristics would likely change as well, it may also be that they cannot handle dirt ingestion or unusual maneuvers as well as the TP-400 is supposed to.
One large problem would be the lack of airflow over the wing caused by the engines, which really helps to achieve the STOL characteristics.
 
mjoelnir
Posts: 4750
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:06 pm

Re: A600M

Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:25 pm

Nean1 wrote:
What if the troublesome A-400 turboprops were replaced by the PW GTF?


the trouble on the Europrop TP-400 is on the way to getting solved. The problem is the prop gear supplied by the GE subsidiary Avio Aero. A redesigned gear is on the way.
It is always easy to say that Airbus should have gone with P&W's PW180 but that was also not a running engine, but just a design. P&W has not a very good track record of delivering on time and without problems.

Other problems with the A400M are also getting solved, as there are, jumping off the A300M with parachutes, parachute delivery of loads, defensive suits, operation from unimproved airstrips and refueling of helicopters. I do not know if the cracking issue is solved.
 
WIederling
Posts: 3088
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:15 pm

Re: A600M

Thu Mar 02, 2017 10:54 am

mjoelnir wrote:
The problem is the prop gear supplied by the GE subsidiary Avio Aero. A redesigned gear is on the way.


Still wondering why that did not come up on the prototype engines.
Murphy is an optimist
 
Slug71
Posts: 25
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2017 6:08 am

Re: A600M

Thu Mar 02, 2017 6:07 pm

WIederling wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:
The problem is the prop gear supplied by the GE subsidiary Avio Aero. A redesigned gear is on the way.


Still wondering why that did not come up on the prototype engines.


The only thing I could think was, that the redesign of other parts has caused some sort of imbalance to the gear in question.
 
Slug71
Posts: 25
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2017 6:08 am

Re: A600M

Thu Mar 02, 2017 6:19 pm

WIederling wrote:
That would be three twins, right?

I'd see an A200M as a slight upgrade to the Transall.
Twin with same engines and similar systems to the A400M


I could see something like this to replace the C-295. And Transall.
With a internal weapons bay for the MPA variant.

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