An225
Topic Author
Posts: 232
Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 6:37 pm

Hellenic Air Force equipment age

Fri Jan 27, 2017 6:58 pm

Hello all,
I was looking on the Hellenic Air Force page at Wikipedia, and was surprised to notice how many old aircraft types they are operating. These include:
AB-205
AB-212
C-130B
F-4E Phantom II
RF-4E Phantom II
T-2 Buckeye
T-41 Mescalero

I assume that due to current economic conditions the HAF are not able to replace these birds, but still questions regarding serviceability and operation ability rises.
Can someone shed some light on the these issues?

Thanks,

An225
 
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Dutchy
Posts: 3149
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: Hellenic Air Force equipment age

Sat Jan 28, 2017 3:37 am

They should retire those Phantoms, no use in a real war and they have quote a sizable fleet of F-16's. The T-2's should be replaced by T-6A Texan II or reduce the size of the military in general.

They could use the money indeed for something better then to put it in the military.

Some more birds which are quite old: P-3B Orion | C-130H | CL-215
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
An225
Topic Author
Posts: 232
Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 6:37 pm

Re: Hellenic Air Force equipment age

Sat Jan 28, 2017 7:31 am

True

Do not forget that they are in war status with Turkey, so reducing the armed forces is not something relevant for them.

My concern is how do they keep these old birds in the air? Where do they get spares?
 
Ozair
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Re: Hellenic Air Force equipment age

Sat Jan 28, 2017 10:05 am

An225 wrote:

My concern is how do they keep these old birds in the air? Where do they get spares?

There are enough Air Forces still flying F-4s that getting spares wouldn't be a problem, same with the C-130Bs. Not sure about the smaller stuff.
 
VSMUT
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Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:40 am

Re: Hellenic Air Force equipment age

Sat Jan 28, 2017 10:12 am

An225 wrote:
My concern is how do they keep these old birds in the air? Where do they get spares?


For the F-4 fleet, they purchased what the Germans had left after they stopped flying it. AMARC should also be full of Phantom parts.

C-130Bs: Use the Allison T56 which powers pretty much any old C-130. If the parts aren't still being made, then there will likely be hundreds in places like AMARC from which they can buy spares. All other parts should be pretty much in common with other legacy C-130s, of which there is no shortage.

P-3Bs: Same engine as the C-130, and almost exactly the same situation as the legacy C-130 fleet. Absolutely no shortage of parts.

AB-205: Really? 16000+ were made, they are still very popular among military and civilian operators. Absolutely no shortage of parts.

AB-212: Same as the AB-205.

T-2 Buckeye: Probably the most difficult aircraft on the list to get spares for.

T-41: Lol, it's a Cessna 172! How can that possibly be problematic? :lol:

Dutchy wrote:
They should retire those Phantoms, no use in a real war and they have quote a sizable fleet of F-16's.


The F-4s have been upgraded to Peace Icarus 2000 standard, which makes them pretty capable. It has the same radar as the F/A-18, can utilize AIM-120s and IRIS-T etc...
They have been trying to sell off part of the F-16 fleet.

:)
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Hellenic Air Force equipment age

Sat Jan 28, 2017 7:29 pm

Really? How many are they trying to sell? And which block? They have pretty new F-16C block 52plus. But also block 30. Whom would buy them potentially. And also why not sell the Mirage 2000 fleet?
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
VSMUT
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Re: Hellenic Air Force equipment age

Sat Jan 28, 2017 7:53 pm

Dutchy wrote:
Really? How many are they trying to sell? And which block? They have pretty new F-16C block 52plus. But also block 30. Whom would buy them potentially. And also why not sell the Mirage 2000 fleet?


It was the latest Block 52s. Presumably because those are the only ones new and capable enough for anyone to contemplate buying. They didn't find a buyer, at least not yet, but the option was mentioned several times during the Danish competition. Funnily enough, the HAF also started sending F-16 Block 52s to airshows in Denmark over that period. A number of former Yugoslav/Balkan/Eastern European countries have been mentioned as well, Bulgaria and Romania being two of them.

As for why? Greece needs to pay its debt, thats why. Fighter jets are expensive toys.
 
steman
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Re: Hellenic Air Force equipment age

Mon Jan 30, 2017 12:54 pm

An225 wrote:

Do not forget that they are in war status with Turkey



What?

They are not really on friendly terms but nowhere as close to a war status.
They are both officially part of NATO, which excludes hostilities between two partner nations.
They had many border clashes in the past but never went to full out war, thank goodness.
No, Greece and Turkey are not at war with each other.
 
VSMUT
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Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:40 am

Re: Hellenic Air Force equipment age

Mon Jan 30, 2017 6:35 pm

steman wrote:
They are both officially part of NATO, which excludes hostilities between two partner nations.


No it doesn't. They already had a go at it in 1974. If they fancied a go at it today, then membership of NATO wouldn't prevent them from doing so.
 
P1aneMad
Posts: 76
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2017 2:05 pm

Re: Hellenic Air Force equipment age

Sat Feb 04, 2017 1:11 pm

VSMUT wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Really? How many are they trying to sell? And which block? They have pretty new F-16C block 52plus. But also block 30. Whom would buy them potentially. And also why not sell the Mirage 2000 fleet?


It was the latest Block 52s. Presumably because those are the only ones new and capable enough for anyone to contemplate buying. They didn't find a buyer, at least not yet, but the option was mentioned several times during the Danish competition. Funnily enough, the HAF also started sending F-16 Block 52s to airshows in Denmark over that period. A number of former Yugoslav/Balkan/Eastern European countries have been mentioned as well, Bulgaria and Romania being two of them.

As for why? Greece needs to pay its debt, thats why. Fighter jets are expensive toys.

Any actual evidence and/or links about that?
Other than your word I mean.
 
VSMUT
Posts: 1107
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Re: Hellenic Air Force equipment age

Sat Feb 04, 2017 1:52 pm

P1aneMad wrote:
Any actual evidence and/or links about that?
Other than your word I mean.


https://militarytechcooperations.wordpr ... om-greece/

There was a lot more on it on a military discussion forum which was sadly closed a year or two ago.
 
P1aneMad
Posts: 76
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2017 2:05 pm

Re: Hellenic Air Force equipment age

Sat Feb 04, 2017 2:04 pm

VSMUT wrote:
P1aneMad wrote:
Any actual evidence and/or links about that?
Other than your word I mean.


https://militarytechcooperations.wordpr ... om-greece/

There was a lot more on it on a military discussion forum which was sadly closed a year or two ago.

So no evidence of the Greeks trying to sell their newest F-16s to the Danes. Thought so.
On the Bulgarians you can find many rumors like the above regarding 8 of their oldest F-16s of the 30 variety, not the latest versions.
 
VSMUT
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Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:40 am

Re: Hellenic Air Force equipment age

Sat Feb 04, 2017 2:11 pm

P1aneMad wrote:
So no evidence of the Greeks trying to sell their newest F-16s to the Danes. Thought so.
On the Bulgarians you can find many rumors like the above regarding 8 of their oldest F-16s of the 30 variety, not the latest versions.


The Danish thing? It was never part of the official RFP, but it certainly did come up several times in local defence media. You will have to search for it yourself though, I'm too busy with other things at the moment. Try www.nytkampfly.dk

The various eastern european things did include Block 52s at least in one case.
 
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TK105
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Re: Hellenic Air Force equipment age

Thu Feb 09, 2017 8:33 pm

An225 wrote:
Do not forget that they are in war status with Turkey

Really?

I consider your statement as wishfull thinking. But I'm sure our Greek neighbours will not be proxy of some powers (at least again).
The future is in the skies.
 
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Mortyman
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Re: Hellenic Air Force equipment age

Fri Feb 10, 2017 2:25 pm

Doesn't Greece have a ridiculously large air force too ? I mean, almost 250 fighters ... and has around double population of Norway ...
 
P1aneMad
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Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2017 2:05 pm

Re: Hellenic Air Force equipment age

Sat Feb 11, 2017 6:41 pm

Also Greece does not border Finland or Sweden but Turkey.
 
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Mortyman
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Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2006 8:26 pm

Re: Hellenic Air Force equipment age

Sat Feb 11, 2017 8:29 pm

P1aneMad wrote:
Also Greece does not border Finland or Sweden but Turkey.


Norway borders Russia :-)
 
P1aneMad
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Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2017 2:05 pm

Re: Hellenic Air Force equipment age

Sat Feb 11, 2017 9:18 pm

Norway has NATO to back her up against Russia though. Greece has only itself.
 
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Mortyman
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Re: Hellenic Air Force equipment age

Sun Feb 12, 2017 12:27 am

P1aneMad wrote:
Norway has NATO to back her up against Russia though. Greece has only itself.



Greece is a NATO member and also has NATO as back up
 
P1aneMad
Posts: 76
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2017 2:05 pm

Re: Hellenic Air Force equipment age

Sun Feb 12, 2017 11:15 am

Mortyman wrote:
Greece is a NATO member and also has NATO as back up

Not against another NATO member.

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