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KarelXWB
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Orion project may get canceled

Mon Nov 21, 2016 3:27 pm

Lots of uncertainty about Orion, the spacecraft that should fly on SLS. Nobody is sure if the thing will ever fly humans into space.

NASA has initiated a process that raises questions about the future of its Orion spacecraft. So far, this procedural effort has flown largely under the radar, because it came in the form of a subtle Request for Information (RFI) that nominally seeks to extend NASA’s contract to acquire future Orion vehicles after Exploration Mission-2, which likely will fly sometime between 2021 and 2023.

Nevertheless, three sources familiar with the RFI, who agreed to speak on the condition of anonymity, told Ars there is more to the request than a simple extension for Orion’s primary contractor, Lockheed Martin. Perhaps most radically, the RFI may even open the way for a competitor, such as Boeing or SpaceX, to substitute its own upgraded capsule for Orion in the mid-2020s.


Lockheed already spent $10 billion on Orion, just imagine if Trump Administration pulls the plug.

Lockheed Martin won the initial contract to design and develop the deep-space Orion spacecraft, which was supposed to fly its first crewed mission in 2014. While the contractor has had to manage several significant change requests, there is nonetheless growing frustration with Lockheed inside NASA. The agency has spent nearly $10 billion so far on Orion, and although there was an uncrewed test flight in 2014, the first human mission won’t come for at least five more years.


As Trump takes over, NASA considers alternatives to its Orion spacecraft

Soon there will be a SLS rocket without payload/mission.
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
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QuarkFly
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Re: Orion project may get canceled

Mon Nov 21, 2016 7:17 pm

Good Riddance...the whole SLS and Orion concept is a white elephant with no mission. I can't stand Trump, but fine if he kills this program -- which is nothing but welfare for contractors and pork for red state NASA centers at Huntsville Alabama, Houston Texas, Michoud Louisiana, Stennis in Mississippi and giant solid-rocket motors built in Utah. Kill it all !!
Always take the Red Eye if possible
 
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kc135topboom
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Re: Orion project may get canceled

Tue Nov 22, 2016 12:04 am

Orion only had the ARM mission, which is really a pipe dream anyway. Why on Earth would you want to capture an asteroid, tow it, and place it in orbit around the Moon? It does nothing to further exploration of space or advance man into space beyond the Moon. We might as well just build a Moon Colony and use that as a jumping off point to Mars and points beyond.

Orion can be used to go to the Moon, but beyond that it is just to small for long distance space travel. It has a habitable volume of only 320 cubic feet, about 9 m3. With a crew of 4-6 Astronauts, that is not much room per crewmember.
 
WIederling
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Re: Orion project may get canceled

Tue Nov 22, 2016 3:56 pm

"We might as well just build a Moon Colony and use that as a jumping off point to Mars and points beyond."

Inefficient. you have to go down the moons gravity well and back up for every access.
Murphy is an optimist
 
bmacleod
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Re: Orion project may get canceled

Sat Dec 17, 2016 6:36 pm

They can't just cancel the whole project - it's mostly developed and built - testing and other less intensive work is all that's left right?

Only other related vehicles and are still in development are Boeing CST-100 and SpaceX Dragon.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CST-100_Starliner

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpaceX_Dragon
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bmacleod
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Re: Orion project may get canceled

Sat Jul 29, 2017 5:49 pm

Next Orion test flight delayed/pushed from 2018 to 2019.

https://arstechnica.com/science/2017/04/senior-official-nasa-will-delay-first-flight-of-new-sls-rocket-until-2019/

Odds are Trump won't be POTUS when Orion is ready for crewed flights - earliest is now 2021...
"What good are wings without the courage to fly?" - Atticus
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: Orion project may get canceled

Sat Jul 29, 2017 11:03 pm

QuarkFly wrote:
Good Riddance...the whole SLS and Orion concept is a white elephant with no mission. I can't stand Trump, but fine if he kills this program -- which is nothing but welfare for contractors and pork for red state NASA centers at Huntsville Alabama, Houston Texas, Michoud Louisiana, Stennis in Mississippi and giant solid-rocket motors built in Utah. Kill it all !!

Tone it down bud. I live in Houston and aerospace (NASA) is our third largest sector of our local economy, which is already depressed because of the oil slowdown.

Houston (and the rest of Texas) was the nations hedge during the 07-08 Recession. Oil was sky-rocketing, and the Texas economy was booming, enough to have the US limp along until the economy recovered to pre-Recession levels in December 2012. You'd rather let politics triumph over thousands of high-paying jobs? Mind you all the major cities in Texas and their adjacent counties are blue, and Houston is the largest nation in the state, 4th largest in the US, and 26th largest economy in the world. Put your ideology aside and look at the big picture.

You need help dude.
Eat 'em up Kats!
 
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QuarkFly
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Re: Orion project may get canceled

Sat Jul 29, 2017 11:31 pm

TWA772LR wrote:
QuarkFly wrote:
Good Riddance...the whole SLS and Orion concept is a white elephant with no mission. I can't stand Trump, but fine if he kills this program -- which is nothing but welfare for contractors and pork for red state NASA centers at Huntsville Alabama, Houston Texas, Michoud Louisiana, Stennis in Mississippi and giant solid-rocket motors built in Utah. Kill it all !!

Tone it down bud. I live in Houston and aerospace (NASA) is our third largest sector of our local economy, which is already depressed because of the oil slowdown.

Houston (and the rest of Texas) was the nations hedge during the 07-08 Recession. Oil was sky-rocketing, and the Texas economy was booming, enough to have the US limp along until the economy recovered to pre-Recession levels in December 2012. You'd rather let politics triumph over thousands of high-paying jobs? Mind you all the major cities in Texas and their adjacent counties are blue, and Houston is the largest nation in the state, 4th largest in the US, and 26th largest economy in the world. Put your ideology aside and look at the big picture.

You need help dude.


So you love Houston, great! That has nothing to do with anything. We don't build rockets because the oil price is low. Cancel this stupid rocket because It is expensive and has no mission. It does not matter how may high paying jobs are being subsidized or if it's in red or blue cities/states. Last news was STS/Orion and may fly once a year at most and cost $1 billion per flight...all for nothing. Yes, kill it and the fine people of Houston certainly will figure out more worthwhile things to be paid for.
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TWA772LR
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Re: Orion project may get canceled

Sat Jul 29, 2017 11:49 pm

QuarkFly wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
QuarkFly wrote:
Good Riddance...the whole SLS and Orion concept is a white elephant with no mission. I can't stand Trump, but fine if he kills this program -- which is nothing but welfare for contractors and pork for red state NASA centers at Huntsville Alabama, Houston Texas, Michoud Louisiana, Stennis in Mississippi and giant solid-rocket motors built in Utah. Kill it all !!

Tone it down bud. I live in Houston and aerospace (NASA) is our third largest sector of our local economy, which is already depressed because of the oil slowdown.

Houston (and the rest of Texas) was the nations hedge during the 07-08 Recession. Oil was sky-rocketing, and the Texas economy was booming, enough to have the US limp along until the economy recovered to pre-Recession levels in December 2012. You'd rather let politics triumph over thousands of high-paying jobs? Mind you all the major cities in Texas and their adjacent counties are blue, and Houston is the largest nation in the state, 4th largest in the US, and 26th largest economy in the world. Put your ideology aside and look at the big picture.

You need help dude.


So you love Houston, great! That has nothing to do with anything. We don't build rockets because the oil price is low. Cancel this stupid rocket because It is expensive and has no mission. It does not matter how may high paying jobs are being subsidized or if it's in red or blue cities/states. Last news was STS/Orion and may fly once a year at most and cost $1 billion per flight...all for nothing. Yes, kill it and the fine people of Houston certainly will figure out more worthwhile things to be paid for.

Wanting to depress an already depressed economy is a bad thing. It's just like wanting to shut down Ford, GM, and Chrysler because automobiles make pollution, and thus killing the entire city of Detroit.

I'm ending this. Your rude comments are not warranted and I don't know why I'm even responding to them. Go get your help.
Eat 'em up Kats!
 
tommy1808
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Re: Orion project may get canceled

Sun Jul 30, 2017 9:24 am

WIederling wrote:
Inefficient. you have to go down the moons gravity well and back up for access.


That depends on the kind of base, doesn't it?

~9-9.5 km/s from lunar surface to Mars surface is a hell lot better than 17 km/'s or so for earth surface to Mars surface.

If you make fuel on the moon, it may very well be worth it.

Best regards
Thomas
Times are changing: 70 years ago the USA went to war to defeat the Nazis, now they elect them to run their country.
 
WIederling
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Re: Orion project may get canceled

Sun Jul 30, 2017 10:16 am

Think Heinlein.:-)

go to Earth Moon L1 for your facility.

Move fuel up ( as automatic as possible ) by electromagnetic catapult to your facility.

Still a beanstalk would be much more interesting.
(nearly) zero fuel from planet to planet ( with a receiving beanstalk present.)
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smithbs
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Re: Orion project may get canceled

Mon Jul 31, 2017 5:18 pm

I think NASA is in a bind, but the blame isn't really theirs - the nation seems to not have any pressing need to send people into space at this time. Congress is too wrapped up in other issues to pay attention to NASA, let alone give it clear directions that are adequately funded, and the news media doesn't seem to either care about Orion or even know about its existence.

During Apollo, the nation was seized with the program and it was widely reported and recognized. Congress fully funded it, which considering the vast sum and the duration of the spending, was an amazing feat in itself.

For government bureaucracies, often it is difficult to go from an enormous Apollo-like footprint to a much smaller one based on space probes, satellite development and such. There is a strong inertia to keep the budget dollars flowing and to find something to do. NASA made the jump from Apollo with Space Shuttle, which was even more expensive and huge. They lobbied hard for it, applied a lot of PR and got their funding and mission. They made a lot of promises too, many of which didn't work out with Space Shuttle, but oh well, the nation thought it was a cool project anyways and appreciated it. The nation was happy to spend on space during the 1970s and into the 1980s.

Today, the perceived public desire for manned spaceflight seems to be finding new lows. This means that Congress won't care about it until the space-based constituencies lose their jobs. And I don't hear NASA lobbying hard for Orion or doing a lot of PR about it either - or if they are, the general public seems tone deaf to it. I would say NASA isn't lobbying hard because they seem to be funding Orion through the quietest avenues possible - not as bad as paying for air refueling tankers through O&M funds, but it feels like it.

Which is a shame because the result makes Orion look like a "make work" project. But generally, the public doesn't seem to be seized with missions beyond Earth's orbit, and I don't think anybody thinks such missions are worth the enormous cost - certainly not Congress for the last 10 years.
 
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Re: Orion project may get canceled

Tue Aug 01, 2017 1:52 pm

The case is still controversial even marginal for putting people in space. It is hard to make the case that a person can do about anything which instruments and robots can do about as well - and for a whole lot less money. I would agree that some human presence in space is useful - just that the majority should be scientific and technological.

It is a high adventure to do such a thing - I'd volunteer in a trice, but doubt that anyone would think it worth a $Billion or two of taxpayers money. The science from unmanned has been astounding (as was our astronauts rescue of Hubble), but even that was from a well thought out pursuit of science.
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bmacleod
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Re: Orion project may get canceled

Thu Aug 03, 2017 1:09 pm

frmrCapCadet wrote:
The case is still controversial even marginal for putting people in space. It is hard to make the case that a person can do about anything which instruments and robots can do about as well - and for a whole lot less money. I would agree that some human presence in space is useful - just that the majority should be scientific and technological.

It is a high adventure to do such a thing - I'd volunteer in a trice, but doubt that anyone would think it worth a $Billion or two of taxpayers money. The science from unmanned has been astounding (as was our astronauts rescue of Hubble), but even that was from a well thought out pursuit of science.


Highly probable Trump will be first POTUS since Jimmy Carter not to preside over any US manned launches during his term.

With the current state of US-Russia relations shelling out tax dough for piggybacking on a Russian Soyuz seems silly to say the least.

Which is why getting Orion, CST-100 and Space X Dragon online ASAP should be critical.
"What good are wings without the courage to fly?" - Atticus
 
smithbs
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Re: Orion project may get canceled

Thu Aug 03, 2017 7:50 pm

bmacleod wrote:
Highly probable Trump will be first POTUS since Jimmy Carter not to preside over any US manned launches during his term.

Yes, but the Carter Administration was pumping vast loads of cash into Space Shuttle. I doubt the Trump Administration is going to sign up for anything comparable.

bmacleod wrote:
With the current state of US-Russia relations shelling out tax dough for piggybacking on a Russian Soyuz seems silly to say the least.

Which is why getting Orion, CST-100 and Space X Dragon online ASAP should be critical.

Agreed.
 
opticalilyushin
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Re: Orion project may get canceled

Fri Aug 04, 2017 1:31 pm

I can't help but feel that going from the Shuttle to Orion is like a technological step back. I'd love to see the future embrace a combination of Space X reusable rockets coupled with the Sierra Nevada Dream Chaser
 
bmacleod
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Re: Orion project may get canceled

Fri Aug 04, 2017 5:49 pm

opticalilyushin wrote:
I can't help but feel that going from the Shuttle to Orion is like a technological step back. I'd love to see the future embrace a combination of Space X reusable rockets coupled with the Sierra Nevada Dream Chaser


Orion's cockpit was designed using Space Shuttle cockpit technology if this image is accurate....

https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7528/15744571407_b296a5ce67_b.jpg
"What good are wings without the courage to fly?" - Atticus
 
finnishway
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Re: Orion project may get canceled

Sun Aug 06, 2017 7:25 am

This is bull****.

First Project Constellation was cancelled now maybe Orion. They are definitely not going forward in NASA.
 
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alberchico
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Re: Orion project may get canceled

Mon Aug 07, 2017 12:36 am

So at this point we ain't going to the moon, the asteroid project is cancelled and the mission to Mars is too damn expensive.

And the SLS rocket is a massive white elephant that will be horrendously expensive to operate.

So what is the future of NASA ?
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ThePointblank
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Re: Orion project may get canceled

Mon Aug 07, 2017 3:56 am

alberchico wrote:
So at this point we ain't going to the moon, the asteroid project is cancelled and the mission to Mars is too damn expensive.

And the SLS rocket is a massive white elephant that will be horrendously expensive to operate.

So what is the future of NASA ?

Not on a NASA-designed rocket and capsule... I'm sure SpaceX, Boeing, and Blue Origin could easily adapt their commercial crewed vehicles to do what Orion was supposed to do...
 
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KarelXWB
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Re: Orion project may get canceled

Mon Aug 07, 2017 8:31 am

ThePointblank wrote:
I'm sure SpaceX, Boeing, and Blue Origin could easily adapt their commercial crewed vehicles to do what Orion was supposed to do...


I wouldn't be so sure about that. The Dragon vehicle is rather small compared to Orion, and doesn't have the service module that can support astronauts up to 30 days in space.
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
ThePointblank
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Re: Orion project may get canceled

Mon Aug 07, 2017 10:36 am

KarelXWB wrote:
ThePointblank wrote:
I'm sure SpaceX, Boeing, and Blue Origin could easily adapt their commercial crewed vehicles to do what Orion was supposed to do...


I wouldn't be so sure about that. The Dragon vehicle is rather small compared to Orion, and doesn't have the service module that can support astronauts up to 30 days in space.

They are working on Dragon V2, which has the same habitable volume as Orion internally.

I believe the intention with Orion is that it will operate with the under development Deep Space Habitat module attached to the capsule for long duration missions. That should provide the necessary living space onboard for long duration missions.

And there's also SpaceX's plans for the Interplanetary Transport System... they hope to have that thing flying with a crew in 2024... that thing should easily have the volume necessary for whatever NASA wants to do.
 
bmacleod
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Re: Orion project may get canceled

Tue Aug 08, 2017 3:47 pm

finnishway wrote:

First Project Constellation was cancelled now maybe Orion. They are definitely not going forward in NASA.



alberchico wrote:
So at this point we ain't going to the moon, the asteroid project is cancelled and the mission to Mars is too damn expensive.

And the SLS rocket is a massive white elephant that will be horrendously expensive to operate.

So what is the future of NASA ?


First and foremost ..Nothing regarding possible cancellation of Orion has been reported. :banghead:

Orion has already been developed - testing and certification are all that remains..however it's a longer process that will take until 2020-2021.

It's a safe bet there will be a moon landing by 2029. Whether it's by NASA or private enterprise remains to be seen.

As far as Mars I can't see going there using current rocket technology.

Plasma engine technology will be needed for a Mars trip thought earliest I can see it is no earlier than 2040.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plasma_propulsion_engine
"What good are wings without the courage to fly?" - Atticus
 
parapente
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Re: Orion project may get canceled

Mon Aug 14, 2017 11:12 am

The big news (IMHO) in the last 2 weeks is that NASA has returned to Nuclear Thermal rocket engines.So much work was done on this in the 60-70's till the Mars project was cancelled.It is probably the most practical way to go to Mars --and back!
Furthermore the original idea was to lift such engines out of earths gravity Well via the Saturn rocket system.Of course the same could be done with the SLSs system.Thus giving it a meaningful long term role.
As for Orion,who knows.As stated it is now built.And so is Dragon.No harm in having both I suppose.

Moon?Quite possibly (political) but right now there is no lander with thrust since Red Dragon lander has been cancelled.
 
estorilm
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Re: Orion project may get canceled

Wed Aug 16, 2017 5:09 pm

QuarkFly wrote:
Good Riddance...the whole SLS and Orion concept is a white elephant with no mission. I can't stand Trump, but fine if he kills this program -- which is nothing but welfare for contractors and pork for red state NASA centers at Huntsville Alabama, Houston Texas, Michoud Louisiana, Stennis in Mississippi and giant solid-rocket motors built in Utah. Kill it all !!

I can't even believe you're on these forums with a point-of-view like this.

You're talking about some of the most brilliant minds, organizations, companies, and historically-significant air and space facilities in the WORLD - and you'd just have them all burned to the ground, so you can meet some crazy snowflake political agendas and get homeless people silver-level health insurance plans at no-cost?

As others have said, these areas carried the economy through thick and thin, and are the very backbone of the most critical and influential space programs ever undertaken. In many ways they define the USA and what it's capable of.

Sorry, but I can't just throw that out the window so we can dump the $$$ into free colleges.

Again, most people on here understand the extremely complex programs and engineering required for civil and military aviation, but space programs are an entirely different animal all-together. NASA did something no one else could do (at the time, easily.. many would argue differently 50 years later..) to suggest abandoning an organization like that is simply blasphemy - though I know many who don't understand, appreciate, or REMEMBER what they did would disagree.

I'm fine with NASA partnering with the big contractors to develop key new technologies that benefit commercial aviation, safety, etc.. but as a space program, NASA is the first thing that pops into peoples minds world-wide. Forgive me for being proud of my country, but I don't want to see that change anytime soon - especially with a fairly mature project nearing first-flight stages. The money has been spent, let's see what it can do. The system as a whole is fairly flexible, especially as a carrier for extremely heavy LEO payloads. It's not a white elephant by any means.
 
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QuarkFly
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Re: Orion project may get canceled

Wed Aug 16, 2017 7:18 pm

estorilm wrote:
...You're talking about some of the most brilliant minds, organizations, companies, and historically-significant air and space facilities in the WORLD - and you'd just have them all burned to the ground, so you can meet some crazy snowflake political agendas and get homeless people silver-level health insurance plans at no-cost?

As others have said, these areas carried the economy through thick and thin, and are the very backbone of the most critical and influential space programs ever undertaken. In many ways they define the USA and what it's capable of.

Sorry, but I can't just throw that out the window so we can dump the $$$ into free colleges.

Again, most people on here understand the extremely complex programs and engineering required for civil and military aviation, but space programs are an entirely different animal all-together. NASA did something no one else could do (at the time, easily.. many would argue differently 50 years later..) to suggest abandoning an organization like that is simply blasphemy - though I know many who don't understand, appreciate, or REMEMBER what they did would disagree.

I'm fine with NASA partnering with the big contractors to develop key new technologies that benefit commercial aviation, safety, etc.. but as a space program, NASA is the first thing that pops into peoples minds world-wide. Forgive me for being proud of my country, but I don't want to see that change anytime soon - especially with a fairly mature project nearing first-flight stages. The money has been spent, let's see what it can do. The system as a whole is fairly flexible, especially as a carrier for extremely heavy LEO payloads. It's not a white elephant by any means.


No, Sorry...We are talking about money grubbing NASA contractors who lobbied to take obsolete space-shuttle hardware to make this new SLS Franken-Rocket with no mission. That hurts the country. It will cost at least $1 billion for each launch, then what?...It has no mission. We already have private companies competing for launch services and designing all new low cost launchers...Including one that successfully builds re-usable boosters, and plans to put people on Mars next decade -- unrealistic in my view...But eliminates the need for a SLS giant rocket that nobody has any idea what to use for. NASA should get out of the space launch business and stick to science.

Your nonsense about homeless people and college money is besides the point. I will happily join conservatives who also have criticized the SLS budget and liberals who agree that this is a total waste and the money should be used for something else.

estorilm wrote:
I can't even believe you're on these forums with a point-of-view like this.

So who's the snowflake? Don't like my point of view...want me off the forums? Sorry, I'm staying...If you can't handle it -- Go to a safe space !!
Always take the Red Eye if possible
 
SCAT15F
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Re: Orion project may get canceled

Wed Aug 16, 2017 8:55 pm

In my opinion they shot themselves in the foot with both Ares V and SLS because they insisted on sticking with Space Shuttle derived hardware. Orion? good riddance to bad rubbish, and give it up already with the SRB's. Pyrios (F-1B) was the way to go and is far more efficient than solids.
What a cluster.

Honestly, things really started going downhill with the extremely shortsighted cancellation of the Jupiter Icy Moons Orbiter and its advanced nuclear propulsion system. I'm still pissed about that one. It would have given NASA an edge over SpaceX and other competitiors.

Rant finished.
 
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Tugger
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Re: Orion project may get canceled

Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:18 pm

There is absolute truth to the fact that the Ares then SLS etc. were really gimme's to the status quo industrial partners of NASA's space program. They were ostensibly to keep America in the game and using "tried and true" tech based on the defunct Space Shuttle program. But really it was mostly congressional pork with a side purpose of not abandoning space. Of course no one could have foreseen the rise of brand new unknown entrants having the success (and the private backing) that these new ventures have had.

At this point, for the most part Orion and SLS really are unneeded and definitely way too expensive when compared to the commercial based options. So they could be dropped without any real loss. But I think until private services are reliably sending humans to space some version of the programs will continue. I love the tech and development but I hate the wasted cost.

Tugg
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moo
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Re: Orion project may get canceled

Thu Aug 17, 2017 1:10 am

SCAT15F wrote:
In my opinion they shot themselves in the foot with both Ares V and SLS because they insisted on sticking with Space Shuttle derived hardware.


The Shuttle hardware is decent, the platform was what failed.

SCAT15F wrote:
give it up already with the SRB's. Pyrios (F-1B) was the way to go and is far more efficient than solids.


The Shuttle SRBs are the most powerful rocket motors ever to fly - they maxed out at 3.1million lbf, double that of the F-1 and more than a third more than the F-1B.

For all their issues, you would struggle to get a comparable thrust from anything else in that size package.
 
WIederling
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Re: Orion project may get canceled

Thu Aug 17, 2017 4:30 pm

moo wrote:
SCAT15F wrote:
In my opinion they shot themselves in the foot with both Ares V and SLS because they insisted on sticking with Space Shuttle derived hardware.


The Shuttle hardware is decent, the platform was what failed.


The application was daft.
Adding another segment to the solid booster while putting the payload on top introduced pogo oscillations to no end.
AFAIR force transfer for the shuttle from booster to main tank was done at the lowest segment.
Stage separation did not work out as expected an afaics intrinsic problem.
Murphy is an optimist
 
DfwRevolution
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Re: Orion project may get canceled

Fri Aug 18, 2017 12:40 am

bmacleod wrote:
They can't just cancel the whole project - it's mostly developed and built - testing and other less intensive work is all that's left right?


That would be a sunk cost fallacy. What we've spent to date is irrelevant. If we don't need Orion or SLS to accomplish our manned spaceflight objectives, then it's irrational to spend another dollar on them.

Now whether we need them is a separate question. NASA's recently announced Deep Space Gateway mission concept makes good use of the SLS booster. Both Orion and SLS appear safe from cancellation at this time.

finnishway wrote:
This is bull****. First Project Constellation was cancelled now maybe Orion. They are definitely not going forward in NASA.


For the record: Project Constellation was a gross display of government waste. The details would shock and insult you. NASA would be far worse today had Constellation not been cancelled. Direct your scorn at those damned fools who conceived that misbegotten program in the first place. I'm still embarrassed to admit that - for time - I entertained the idea Constellation would work.

KarelXWB wrote:
ThePointblank wrote:
I'm sure SpaceX, Boeing, and Blue Origin could easily adapt their commercial crewed vehicles to do what Orion was supposed to do...


I wouldn't be so sure about that. The Dragon vehicle is rather small compared to Orion, and doesn't have the service module that can support astronauts up to 30 days in space.


Any capsule is just a taxi to transport the crew to a mission module. Specifying a huge capsule volume just increases the mass of the heat shield, landing system, abort system, etc. The capsule should just be kept to a minimum volume necessary to reach the mission module. In practical terms, that means a free-flight of 7 days each way to the various staging points in the Earth-Moon system.

WIederling wrote:
AFAIR force transfer for the shuttle from booster to main tank was done at the lowest segment..


It's the upper segment that transmits force from the SRB into the External Tank (or booster core with SLS). There's a big cross-beam between the LOX and LH2 tank that carries the load. It's much more stress-efficient to "lift" from the middle of the stack.

alberchico wrote:
So at this point we ain't going to the moon, the asteroid project is cancelled and the mission to Mars is too damn expensive. And the SLS rocket is a massive white elephant that will be horrendously expensive to operate. So what is the future of NASA ?


The current plan is to construct a Deep Space Gateway and Deep Space Transport vehicle:

https://www.nasa.gov/feature/deep-space ... stinations

The Deep Space Gateway would be a minimalist space station located near the Earth-Moon L2 point. This is a special gravitational point that is basically a stone's throw to anywhere in the inner solar system. It only takes another 1 km/s delta-V to leave EML2 for Mars. This makes an ideal staging ground for the solar-electric powered Deep Space Transport. Solar-electric propulsion is very mass efficient, but accelerates very slowly.

I think it's actually a pretty ingenious plan. It's flexible for many different mission types. It mitigates technology risk by reusing proven elements from the ISS. It's mass efficient. It accommodates international partners. It has lots of opportunities for commercial contracting. It's a nice, incremental, not-radical way to explore the inner solar system.
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ITMercure
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Re: Orion project may get canceled

Fri Aug 18, 2017 5:18 pm

"I think it's actually a pretty ingenious plan. It's flexible for many different mission types. It mitigates technology risk by reusing proven elements from the ISS. It's mass efficient. It accommodates international partners. It has lots of opportunities for commercial contracting. It's a nice, incremental, not-radical way to explore the inner solar system."

But it would be outside the Earth's protective magnetic field, right?
 
DfwRevolution
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Re: Orion project may get canceled

Fri Aug 18, 2017 6:00 pm

ITMercure wrote:
"I think it's actually a pretty ingenious plan. It's flexible for many different mission types. It mitigates technology risk by reusing proven elements from the ISS. It's mass efficient. It accommodates international partners. It has lots of opportunities for commercial contracting. It's a nice, incremental, not-radical way to explore the inner solar system."

But it would be outside the Earth's protective magnetic field, right?


Yes. Just like the Apollo lunar missions, accessing the DSG would require a fast transit through the Van Allen radiation belts as the crew leaves Earth's magnetic field.
I have a three post per topic limit. You're welcome to have the last word.
 
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ITMercure
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Re: Orion project may get canceled

Fri Aug 18, 2017 6:42 pm

So this L2 station would not be permanently crewed?

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