mats01776
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X-2 Stealth Technology Demonstrator

Fri Jan 29, 2016 3:07 pm

The Mitsubishi ATD-X fighter technology demonstrator could conduct its maiden flight in February, following a media rollout in Japan on 29 January.

I thought this demonstrator was supposed to have flown sometime last year.
http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s---6xoIZQh--/ce7qkk7l6b9jozk3ed0l.jpg
http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...-advanced-fighter-research-421374/
http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/eve...2-the-future-of-japanes-1755710322





[Edited 2016-01-29 07:27:47]
 
mats01776
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RE: X-2 Stealth Technology Demonstrator

Tue Feb 16, 2016 3:43 am

Taxing test begins at Nagoya Airport, Japan:
http://youtu.be/pwXAcYCUlTc
http://livedoor.blogimg.jp/corez18c24-mili777/imgs/1/9/194998a5.jpg
 
mats01776
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RE: X-2 Stealth Technology Demonstrator

Wed Feb 24, 2016 1:40 pm

2nd taxiing test on 2/24/2016:
http://youtu.be/oONJsb3CGIM?t=40
 
mats01776
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RE: X-2 Stealth Technology Demonstrator

Tue Mar 15, 2016 1:48 pm

March 15, 2016: ”Smoke test" for afterburners, one side at a time?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zy_FUedAVpE
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/dd805n8pXlQ/maxresdefault.jpg
 
angad84
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RE: X-2 Stealth Technology Demonstrator

Wed Mar 16, 2016 6:39 am

Quoting mats01776 (Reply 3):
March 15, 2016: ”Smoke test" for afterburners, one side at a time?

Klimov would be proud of all that black stuff spewing out  

Didn't look like full reheat to me, might have just been testing FADEC to full military power and a little beyond. Looks like the engines and propelling nozzles are well inside the fuselage, kind of like YF-23 meets the Dassault style shrouded nozzle on the Mirage/Rafale. The TVC paddles a nice throwback to the X-31, but will probably play havoc with RCS. Probably a FCS validation solution that will eventually be replaced with something stealthier.

Cheers
A
 
mats01776
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RE: X-2 Stealth Technology Demonstrator

Wed Mar 16, 2016 11:21 am

The thrust deflection paddles are made from ceramic matrix composite. I don't know what the RCS of CMC paddles would be, but I doubt if they would ever publish the data.

How stealthy they are, we'll see (or not).   
 
angad84
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RE: X-2 Stealth Technology Demonstrator

Wed Mar 16, 2016 11:34 am

I think CMC is a material choice more focused on weight and heat resistance. Non-metallic objects are not necessarily magically EM-transparent.

Cheers
Angad
 
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spudh
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RE: X-2 Stealth Technology Demonstrator

Thu Mar 17, 2016 9:33 am

What has changed in aircraft design that modern designs (sadly!) seem not to obey area ruling.

The X-2, while a pretty cool looking thing, won't win any beauty contests and seems to follow the trend of the F-35 (and F-22 to a lesser extent) in maintaining a fat fuselage at the wing root where you would expect it to be getting thinner.

Is it that Mach 2 is no longer required or that engines are now more than powerful enough to push through transonic drag without needing to reach mach 2?

Or is it still there but is less obviously distributed over the large control surfaces?

I find it interesting as it shows a shift in design priorities. Colin Chapman of Lotus espoused the principle 'to add speed, add lightness'. Traditional area ruling reduced cross sections, thereby reducing internal volume, reducing airframe weight.
The F-35 has huge internal capacity for fuel, weapons, computers but there must be an airframe weight cost to that.

The X-2 seems to have arrived at a similar design direction.
 
angad84
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RE: X-2 Stealth Technology Demonstrator

Thu Mar 17, 2016 10:14 am

Quoting Spudh (Reply 7):
Traditional area ruling reduced cross sections, thereby reducing internal volume

There's your answer. Stealth demands a LOT of internal volume, not jut for weapons, but also for a crapload of fuel that can now no longer be carried in droptanks. Either you go fat, like the F-35, or go long, like the J-20.

I instinctively favour a higher fineness ratio (maybe because it just looks better?   ), but then you trade wave drag wins for losses against wetted area. Neither solves the weight issue, so you put in the most beastly engine you can find. Note that both the F119 and F135 are at the top of their class in terms of performance. Oh and incidentally, keeping everything internal in a VLO/LO design actually saves you some drag versus an equivalent loadout mounted out in the airstream on a 4th-gen fighter. I'm not sure if there's any data floating around, but I would wager that subsonic drag for a large range of payload/fuel/range combinations would probably be lower on fifth-gen types. It's only when you start talking about lots of firepower (A2A or A2G) over relatively short ranges that 4th-gen birds would likely come out ahead, because of their larger carrying capacity overall (more hardpoints).

So it all depends on extensive modeling based on the needs of the primary customer – their present tactics, doctrines and SOPs, how they anticipate the battlespace will evolve, and what will be required of a fighter today and tomorrow. Then the guys with pencils and drafting paper get to work. Since the bread and butter work of multirole fighters is done flying subsonic and medium altitudes, it's little surprise that they're going down the 'short and fat' route. The J-20 is speculated to be a long-range interceptor/strike fighter, so the longer body makes sense there as one assumes it'll be spending a fair bit of time in the high-subsonic/supersonic regime. And on the other hand, the more multirole J-31 goes back to a very F-35-esque layout (whether through espionage or actual PLAAF requirement is anyone's guess!).

Ramble over

Angad
 
mats01776
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RE: X-2 Stealth Technology Demonstrator

Thu Mar 17, 2016 10:16 am

As I understand it, the large fuselage cross-section is the result of the need to hide all the armament and the additional fuel tanks inside as to minimize the radar cross section.

I doubt that the F-35 is superior to the F-16 or the F/A -18 in the aerodynamics department for example.
 
mats01776
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RE: X-2 Stealth Technology Demonstrator

Thu Mar 17, 2016 11:08 am

Medium speed taxi test on March 17, 2016:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9IFF9h4hFg
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/ePmxLFkuO0o/maxresdefault.jpg
 
tjh8402
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RE: X-2 Stealth Technology Demonstrator

Thu Mar 17, 2016 4:35 pm

Quoting angad84 (Reply 8):
Oh and incidentally, keeping everything internal in a VLO/LO design actually saves you some drag versus an equivalent loadout mounted out in the airstream on a 4th-gen fighter. I'm not sure if there's any data floating around, but I would wager that subsonic drag for a large range of payload/fuel/range combinations would probably be lower on fifth-gen types. It's only when you start talking about lots of firepower (A2A or A2G) over relatively short ranges that 4th-gen birds would likely come out ahead, because of their larger carrying capacity overall (more hardpoints).

I can't find it, but there's a slide presentation floating around that shows exactly your point. 4th generation fighters have to be loaded up for combat which degrades their performance. The F-35 can go into combat clean, giving it a range and speed advantage, even if it isn't carry as much ordinance as the 4th gens. It has much longer range on internal fuel than the Falcons and Hornets have.
 
angad84
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RE: X-2 Stealth Technology Demonstrator

Thu Mar 17, 2016 6:18 pm

Quoting tjh8402 (Reply 11):
even if it isn't carry as much ordinance as the 4th gens

Exactly and this is why stuff like Boeing's 2040C F-15 Eagle exists. An F-35 will probably be less draggy overall and have longer legs than a 4th-gen bird with equivalent *weaponry*, but most 4th gen types can comfortably outshoot an F-35, so when you find yourself with a fleet full of F-35s and needing lots of missile or bomb carrying capacity, you's suddenly strapping things onto the *outside* of an F-35 and it's a very, very awful story for all involved.

Physics can be a bitch sometimes.

Cheers
A
 
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spudh
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RE: X-2 Stealth Technology Demonstrator

Fri Mar 18, 2016 12:03 am

Quoting angad84 (Reply 8):
I'm not sure if there's any data floating around, but I would wager that subsonic drag for a large range of payload/fuel/range combinations would probably be lower on fifth-gen types.

I have some stuff somewhere comparing the semi-submerged carraige of ordnance in the tunnel of the F-14 with similar loadouts on the F-18 and F-4, I'll dig it out if I can find it. IIRC its a significant difference which is purely down to parasitic drag of stores on pylons.

Quoting angad84 (Reply 12):
so when you find yourself with a fleet full of F-35s and needing lots of missile or bomb carrying capacity

I wonder if missile loadout is overplayed. In almost every modern encounter of Air to Air combat I've read about most participents break off the engagement after the first few missiles have been fired. F-4's in Vietnam used to to fire off missiles blind just to occupy the migs, Iranian F-14's similarily. Other than that I'm unaware of any engagments where anyone actually ran out of missiles.

[Edited 2016-03-17 17:13:02]
 
tjh8402
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RE: X-2 Stealth Technology Demonstrator

Fri Mar 18, 2016 12:10 am

Quoting angad84 (Reply 12):
Exactly and this is why stuff like Boeing's 2040C F-15 Eagle exists. An F-35 will probably be less draggy overall and have longer legs than a 4th-gen bird with equivalent *weaponry*, but most 4th gen types can comfortably outshoot an F-35, so when you find yourself with a fleet full of F-35s and needing lots of missile or bomb carrying capacity, you's suddenly strapping things onto the *outside* of an F-35 and it's a very, very awful story for all involved.

Physics can be a bitch sometimes.

Cheers
A

Actually that's not entirely correct. The F-35's max payload is 18,000 lbs, which is a bit more than either the Falcon or Hornet (while carrying a lot more fuel), but slightly less than the Strike Eagle (23,000). That's flying dirty with all weapons stations full. The more important part is that the F-35 can carry 5k lbs of ordinance along with enough fuel to match the combat radius of the Falcon and Hornet with external tanks and a similar payload. The difference there is the F-35 will be clean and able to perform at its best, whereas the 4th gens will be slowed down by their external weapons and fuel tanks. The F-15 admittedly is a beast with its speed payload and range. It remains unmatched in lot of its capabilities and is largely in a class of its own, but it has an operating and acquisition cost to match the capabilities. As it stands, the F-35 going forward will be cheaper to procure and I believe operate per hour. Plus, as much as I hate to call a F-35 expendable, having more lightly armed F-35s does mean that losing one plane results in losing a smaller portion of your total firepower than losing one F-15. As has been discussed in other threads, what is likely is that the LO F-35s can operate ahead of a flight of heavily armed Eagles serving as missile trucks and use their sensors to direct and target missiles fired from the F-15s.
 
mats01776
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RE: X-2 Stealth Technology Demonstrator

Sat Mar 19, 2016 12:43 pm

"Mitsubishi X-2 Full Acceleration with AfterBurner" on March 17, 2016, at Nagoya Airport:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkDsD...PLi1Aa4Du9oce0UskxjJZ2n7FpI22UGulN
 
mats01776
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RE: X-2 Stealth Technology Demonstrator

Tue Apr 12, 2016 1:07 pm

High speed taxi test with full afterburner and brief rotation on 4/12/2016:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNTu3uMBGTM
http://i.guancha.cn/news/2016/04/12/20160412111147459.jpg
Nikkei reports that the first flight is expected in the latter half of April.
(No commnent from me.)
 
mats01776
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RE: X-2 Stealth Technology Demonstrator

Fri Apr 22, 2016 9:29 am

First flight from Nagoya Airport to Gifu Air Base occurred on 4/22/2016:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ldw-gbPYleo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euxaO8-xNtA#t=197.764352
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWqN6...vPbIdbgHQ5KJhgFlzbh-9lLXZqEbHe1Q2A



Congrats!

[Edited 2016-04-22 02:35:09]

[Edited 2016-04-22 02:40:40]
 
WIederling
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RE: X-2 Stealth Technology Demonstrator

Sun Apr 24, 2016 9:39 am

Funny and strange:
The images remind me of similar material taken ages ago on lifting bodies like the HL10 ...
( no idea what kicks my "seen that before" argorithms here.)
Murphy is an optimist
 
Kiwirob
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RE: X-2 Stealth Technology Demonstrator

Sun Apr 24, 2016 10:49 am

So why are the Japanese building this demonstrator, will it turn into a product they will eventually build?
 
mats01776
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RE: X-2 Stealth Technology Demonstrator

Sun Apr 24, 2016 1:22 pm

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 19):


Quote from http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/eve...2-the-future-of-japanes-1755710322:
You may notice it (X-2)almost looks like a jet trainer version of the F-22 Raptor. That should come as no surprise. Beyond using existing designs for a stepping off point, Japan had a serious lust for F-22 and offered to buy them really under any circumstances. This was controversially denied and the F-22 was made unexportable by law. Fast forward almost a decade and Japan seems to be trying to build their own.

The talk of F-22 production line restarting may have an impact on the situation.
 
ThePointblank
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RE: X-2 Stealth Technology Demonstrator

Mon Apr 25, 2016 3:06 am

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 19):
So why are the Japanese building this demonstrator, will it turn into a product they will eventually build?

It is my belief that this is primarily a technology demonstrator to show the world that the Japanese are capable of putting together highly sophisticated fighters on their own, and that they can be a larger partner in future military aircraft programs. Ever since the Japanese lifted their export ban, the Japanese are pushing very hard to either be a partner or sell Japanese weapons abroad. Witness the Japanese trying to sell submarines to Australia.
 
mats01776
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RE: X-2 Stealth Technology Demonstrator

Wed May 18, 2016 1:19 pm

X-2 completes the second test flight on May 18, 2016 at Gifu Air Base.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKdNkeqv6Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBzuOGDxuqU

[Edited 2016-05-18 06:34:40]
 
mats01776
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RE: X-2 Stealth Technology Demonstrator

Mon May 23, 2016 9:35 am

X-2 cycles its landing gear in flight during the test flight on May 18, 2016:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Byahq5Q1W2Q
 
mats01776
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Re: X-2 Stealth Technology Demonstrator

Fri Jul 15, 2016 1:35 pm

Another footage of X-2 taking off from Gufu Airbase published on June 17, 2016.
Noticed the landing gear going up after take-off.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x758z6FwwNc
 
mats01776
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Re: X-2 Stealth Technology Demonstrator

Tue Nov 29, 2016 12:04 pm

Update: November 29, 2016.
Another test flight with a Mitsubishi F2 chase plane:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmkWxSwBjMY
Image
 
Ozair
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Re: RE: X-2 Stealth Technology Demonstrator

Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:48 am

Looks like any work on a new Japanese fighter jet is now going to be delayed.

Japan will delay a decision to develop a new advanced fighter jet, four sources said, as military planners struggle to settle on a design and officials splash out on new U.S. equipment such as ballistic missile interceptors and F-35 stealth planes.
Faced with a growing military threat from North Korea and increased activity by Chinese air force jets over the East China Sea, Japan is under pressure to improve its defenses on two fronts.
Any delay to the new fighter, known as the F-3, will raise a question mark over the future of what could be one of the world’s most lucrative upcoming military contracts, estimated at more than $40 billion to develop and deploy.
A decision after the first half of 2018 would be too late for it to be included as a core program in a new five-year defense equipment plan beginning April 2019 that Japan will reveal at the end of next year.
“The direction is for the F-3 decision to be put back,” said one the sources who have knowledge of the discussion.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-japan ... DD0D4?il=0

Funding priorities and a tight timeframe are the major concerns. If this occurs it also presents difficulties for the agreement signed earlier this year between the UK and Japan to investigate co-development.
 
bigjku
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Re: RE: X-2 Stealth Technology Demonstrator

Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:07 pm

Ozair wrote:
Looks like any work on a new Japanese fighter jet is now going to be delayed.

Japan will delay a decision to develop a new advanced fighter jet, four sources said, as military planners struggle to settle on a design and officials splash out on new U.S. equipment such as ballistic missile interceptors and F-35 stealth planes.
Faced with a growing military threat from North Korea and increased activity by Chinese air force jets over the East China Sea, Japan is under pressure to improve its defenses on two fronts.
Any delay to the new fighter, known as the F-3, will raise a question mark over the future of what could be one of the world’s most lucrative upcoming military contracts, estimated at more than $40 billion to develop and deploy.
A decision after the first half of 2018 would be too late for it to be included as a core program in a new five-year defense equipment plan beginning April 2019 that Japan will reveal at the end of next year.
“The direction is for the F-3 decision to be put back,” said one the sources who have knowledge of the discussion.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-japan ... DD0D4?il=0

Funding priorities and a tight timeframe are the major concerns. If this occurs it also presents difficulties for the agreement signed earlier this year between the UK and Japan to investigate co-development.


The reality is unless you are buying nearly a thousand planes of a fighter type you almost can’t survive the media blitz that would accompany development cost on a new fighter. At $40 billion the R&D per frame alone on a 200 unit purchase would be $200 million a piece. That purchase amount would damn near replace every fighter Japan has.

IMHO all future fighter projects will have to be multi-service and multinational or pure derivatives of existing planes. It isn’t even that investing that money can’t be a wise decision, but you just can’t get the average public to understand a fighter that will be that expensive.
 
LightningZ71
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Re: X-2 Stealth Technology Demonstrator

Fri Nov 17, 2017 7:17 am

You have to imagine that any further development would have to be in cooperation with South Korea with their aspirations for a stealth aircraft as well. You also need buyers that will likely never threaten either country for geographic reasons. We know that several Middle Eastern countries want stealth fighters, Saudi and UAE in particular. Why not involve a four way partnership where the deep pockets of those emirates help support the development of a joint aircraft between S.K. and JPN? That way, everyone gets what they want, and no one is dependent on US and european designs and support.
 
ThePointblank
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Re: X-2 Stealth Technology Demonstrator

Fri Nov 17, 2017 7:40 am

LightningZ71 wrote:
You have to imagine that any further development would have to be in cooperation with South Korea with their aspirations for a stealth aircraft as well. You also need buyers that will likely never threaten either country for geographic reasons. We know that several Middle Eastern countries want stealth fighters, Saudi and UAE in particular. Why not involve a four way partnership where the deep pockets of those emirates help support the development of a joint aircraft between S.K. and JPN? That way, everyone gets what they want, and no one is dependent on US and european designs and support.

South Korea and Japan don't have the best relationship, despite both being Western. Many South Koreans deeply resent the Japanese for the past, and there's ongoing territorial squabbles between Japan and South Korea.
 
Ozair
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Re: X-2 Stealth Technology Demonstrator

Fri Nov 17, 2017 8:28 am

LightningZ71 wrote:
You have to imagine that any further development would have to be in cooperation with South Korea with their aspirations for a stealth aircraft as well. You also need buyers that will likely never threaten either country for geographic reasons. We know that several Middle Eastern countries want stealth fighters, Saudi and UAE in particular. Why not involve a four way partnership where the deep pockets of those emirates help support the development of a joint aircraft between S.K. and JPN? That way, everyone gets what they want, and no one is dependent on US and european designs and support.

Besides what Pointblank said on the Korean/Japanese relationship the UAE signed a letter of intent with Russia on a 5th gen project and the news has been littered the last few days with talks between the UAE and the US on acquiring the F-35. Saudi Arabia may be interested but they know they just have to wait maybe five more years and will acquire F-35s if they want them.
 
LightningZ71
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Re: X-2 Stealth Technology Demonstrator

Fri Nov 17, 2017 9:41 pm

While I fully support the idea of the historic enmity between South Korea and Japan, it seems over the last few years, and especially since the suspected hydrogen bomb detonation in North Korea, that, at least at higher levels, South Korea and Japan have begun to see things as more of a cooperative struggle with respect to China and North Korea. Public opinion may still be less than favorable between the two, and especially in South Korea, but, it's not as heated or overt as it used to be. If I may be so bold, it appears that the younger generations of both countries have moved beyond the past to a great degree, especially considering how popular it seems that the J-POP and K-POP artists are in each other's countries lately.

As irrelevant as some of that may be, the fact of the matter is still that neither country seems to have the resources to complete the project on their own in the near term. The Saudis and UAE both want stealth fighters. Russia seems to be having issues of their own with their own fighter to the point that India has walked away from it (though, India has their own problems) and China decided to forge their own path. Turkey has a project, but doesn't seem to be getting that far quickly, and they may not want to share that with Saudi and UAE anyway. That leaves either the new Euro development that France and Germany are discussing (but heaven knows where they will even go with that) or Japan and S. Korea getting together on something.

With the political climate being what it is, it is highly likely that the net US president won't be as willing to sell arms to the middle east. This leaves the middle east in a conundrum. Japan/SK need money. The middle east needs to keep up with the arms race. Russia has proven to be problematic for their current stealth fighters. China seems unwilling to export their top end stuff. They almost have to go to either SK or Japan or both to get this done.

There could also be another entrant in the mix: India. There hasn't been much talk of the US selling the F-35 to India. India has to know that China is rapidly outdistancing them in the skies. They also have to realize that Pakistan is also going to be ahead of them as they continue to work with the Chinese on their own advanced fighter programs. They can't even get their own now very outdated Tejas into the sky in reliable numbers. They almost have to get involved in this as well. The Rafale may be a wonderful plane, but, in five years time, it will be just another vulnerable late 4th gen fighter surrounded by stealthy fighters and other late 4th gen fighters that outnumber it greatly. With India nearing the point where they will have carriers without fighters for them, especially fighters that can fit on their elevators, they will be interested in at least a naval variant of any development.

There is a lot of potential here for several countries that otherwise would have nothing to do with each other to get together and make something that's competitive with the best of the superpowers.
 
ThePointblank
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Re: X-2 Stealth Technology Demonstrator

Sat Nov 18, 2017 8:37 am

LightningZ71 wrote:
While I fully support the idea of the historic enmity between South Korea and Japan, it seems over the last few years, and especially since the suspected hydrogen bomb detonation in North Korea, that, at least at higher levels, South Korea and Japan have begun to see things as more of a cooperative struggle with respect to China and North Korea. Public opinion may still be less than favorable between the two, and especially in South Korea, but, it's not as heated or overt as it used to be. If I may be so bold, it appears that the younger generations of both countries have moved beyond the past to a great degree, especially considering how popular it seems that the J-POP and K-POP artists are in each other's countries lately.


The issue is much more deeply rooted in both South Korean and Japanese culture than you think. There are still many Koreans outraged by the Japanese for the suffering their people had endured when Korea was a colony of Japan, and the lack of refusal by Japan to even acknowledge the issue. And there are many Japanese who are outraged by the Koreans for even bringing up the past.

Per a past international survey, South Koreans have a very negative view of Japan's influence in the region, and the only country that has a even worst view of Japan is China. Likewise, the Japanese view the South Koreans in an extremely negative light, almost as strongly as the view of Koreans about Japan.

China and North Korea are no longer the unifying force that it historically has been in Japan-South Korea relations, especially as old wounds continue to fester between the two countries. I think you are dramatically underestimating how bad the relationship is between South Korea and Japan is; it is extremely difficult to even get the South Korean President and the Japanese Prime Minister in the same room for talks for starters, and it has been like that for over a decade.
 
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brianK73
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Re: X-2 Stealth Technology Demonstrator

Sat Nov 18, 2017 2:09 pm

ThePointblank wrote:
There are still many Koreans outraged by the Japanese for the suffering their people had endured when Korea was a colony of Japan, and the lack of refusal by Japan to even acknowledge the issue.

Fair enough.
That is, until you discover that the South Korean government actually received the direct compensation for the annexation from Japan that amounts to 3 times the national budget in 1965 as a part of the "Treaty on Basic Relations between Japan and the Republic of Korea", but the South Korean government kept it secret from its people.
From Wikipedia
In January 2005, the South Korean government disclosed 1,200 pages of diplomatic documents that recorded the proceeding of the treaty. The documents, kept secret for 40 years, recorded that the Japanese government actually proposed to the South Korean government to directly compensate individual victims but it was the South Korean government which insisted that it would handle individual compensation to its citizens and then received the whole amount of grants on behalf of the victims.[9][10][11]
The South Korean government demanded a total of 364 million dollars in compensation for the 1.03 million Koreans conscripted into the workforce and the military during the colonial period,[12] at a rate of 200 dollars per survivor, 1,650 dollars per death and 2,000 dollars per injured person.[13] South Korea agreed to demand no further compensation, either at the government or individual level, after receiving $800 million in grants and soft loans from Japan as compensation for its 1910–45 colonial rule in the treaty.[11]
However, the South Korean government used most of the grants for economic development,[14] failing to provide adequate compensation to victims by paying only 300,000 won per death in compensating victims of forced labor between 1975 and 1977.[13] Instead, the government spent most of the money establishing social infrastructures, founding POSCO, building Gyeongbu Expressway and the Soyang Dam with the technology transfer from Japanese companies.[15] This investment was named Miracle on the Han River in South Korea.
As the result of this revelation[according to whom?], there have been growing calls for the South Korean government to compensate the victims. A survey conducted shortly after the disclosure showed that more than 70 percent of South Koreans believe the South Korean government should bear responsibility to pay for those victims. The South Korean government announced that it will establish a team to deal with the appeals for compensation, although "It has been the government's position that compensation for losses during the Japanese occupation has already been settled".[12]

Why did the South Korean government lie to its people about having already received the compensation from Japan in 1965?
Good question.
It might have something to do with Korean Culture and ethics.
I once read an interesting opinion piece by Nobel Laureate Kim Dae-jung, 8th President of South Korea, in a South Korean newspaper,
titled A Country of Liars.:

July 03, 2005 23:18
In every country there are crimes that uniquely reflect its society. National Intelligence Service director-designate Kim Seung-kyu, in a lecture he gave late in May when he was justice minister, said: "The three representative crimes of our country are perjury, libel and fraud." In simple comparison, not taking into account population ratio, South Korea saw 16 times as many perjury cases in 2003 than Japan, 39 times as many libel cases and 26 times as many instances of fraud. That is extraordinarily high given Japan's population is three times our own.

The common denominator of the three crimes is lying; in short, we live in a country of liars. The prosecution devotes 70 percent of its work to handling the three crimes, the former justice minister said. And because suspects lie so much, the indictment rate in fraud cases is 19.5 percent, in perjury 29 percent and in libel 43.1 percent. "Internationally, too, there is a perception that South Korea's representative crime is fraud," Kim said, adding that recent major scandals show how rampant lying is in this country.

Coming from a former president of the country, these are quite harsh words that cast a serious shadow on how credible South Korea as a country is.

As for the stealth fighter project, I am not quite sure what advanced technology the South Koreans can bring to the table to make the joint venture worth while.

AESA radar? High powered engine? Stealth composite material?
 
mats01776
Topic Author
Posts: 138
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Re: X-2 Stealth Technology Demonstrator

Tue Nov 28, 2017 11:52 am

According to this article, Japan Refines Design For Indigenous Future Fighter, the X-2 is done with the test flights:

Meanwhile, the X-2 technology demonstrator that Japan built to help prepare the way for the fighter program has exceeded goals in tests, a program official says. Manufacturer MHI first flew the X-2 in April 2016 before handing it over to ATLA, which put it to work in test flights beginning the following November. At first, 50 test flights were planned—but data from many was so good that later excursions could be skipped, says the official, speaking at the seminar. The data was accumulated in only 34 flights, each about 1 hr. in duration.

Radar signature was one area of outperformance, the official says, declining to elaborate. The IHI XF5 engines also did better than expected under the adverse conditions of high angles of attack.


Video of the last flight(?): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lUK7kSgm0Y

That's all, folks.
 
mats01776
Topic Author
Posts: 138
Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2012 6:10 pm

Re: X-2 Stealth Technology Demonstrator

Tue Nov 28, 2017 1:22 pm

LightningZ71 wrote:
You have to imagine that any further development would have to be in cooperation with South Korea with their aspirations for a stealth aircraft as well. You also need buyers that will likely never threaten either country for geographic reasons.


I respectfully disagree.
There is plenty of potential merit for Japan to work with US or UK to develop a next generation stealth fighter, but no so much with South Korea.

While developing a next generation stealth fighter may have been beyond the financial means of the existing Japanese defense budget that had been limited to 1% of GDP as a matter of unofficial, political rule of thumb, there is no explicit constitutional limit to how much Japan can spend on defense.
(cf. Abe Scraps Japan's 1 Percent GDP Defense Spending Cap)

A casual Western observer tends to view South Korea and Japan as countries of comparable size and technical expertise.
That's not exactly borne out by actual facts.

According to this article Japan's economy is four times the size of South Korea's in 2013.

The differential between the gross domestic product (GDP) of Korea and Japan was 17 times in 1980, 11.4 times in 1009[sic], 5.4 times in 2010, and 4 times last year. The GDPs of Korea and Japan last year were US$1.221 trillion and US$4.901 trillion, respectively.

Japan seems to have a sufficient technology-base in high-performance turbine engine development, low radar-observable materials science, and advanced sensor technology to at least attempt to develop a next generation stealth fighter, but I doubt if South Korea does to make her a viable joint development partner for cutting-edge aircraft designs.

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