As above it's all about ( for me) what rocket will it launch.Usually these things are designed in tandem.Thhe owner initially funded the Ansari prize which morphed into Virgin Galactic.Clearly he didn't wish to pair up with R Branson.
This thing clearly could carry a larger (than v galactic) space plane.But these are none being built so it's not that.For commercial loads what he needs is a mid sized solid rocket.I would have thought liquid fuelled would be too complex/dangerous.
But I am not aware of any mid sized solid rocket.But their might be as I think there is about 3 companies building microsat launchers.But at present they all aunch from the ground.If they launched from space their payload capability would go up enormously.

But at the moment it looks like a rebel without a cause.

parapente wrote:

As above it's all about ( for me) what rocket will it launch.Usually these things are designed in tandem.Thhe owner initially funded the Ansari prize which morphed into Virgin Galactic.Clearly he didn't wish to pair up with R Branson.
This thing clearly could carry a larger (than v galactic) space plane.But these are none being built so it's not that.For commercial loads what he needs is a mid sized solid rocket.I would have thought liquid fuelled would be too complex/dangerous.
But I am not aware of any mid sized solid rocket.But their might be as I think there is about 3 companies building microsat launchers.But at present they all aunch from the ground.If they launched from space their payload capability would go up enormously.

But at the moment it looks like a rebel without a cause.

You might check out the Pegasus, it is an air-launched rocket developed by Orbital Sciences Corporation for launching small payloads, from the air with a L-1011 aircraft. Also look at Paul Allens company that is called Vulcan, I would bet money there is a plan for what Stratolaunch is doing.

The only operational small to medium sized US launchers seem to be the Pegasus -which is already air-launched-, the Minotaur-C (based on the Pegasus) and the new Electron; plus soon perhaps the Vector-R.
Others include the European Vega, the Indian PSLV (both of which are rather heavy, though) and the Japanese Epsilon. That's pretty much it, excluding the very light launchers of China, Iran, Israel and North Korea.

itchief wrote:

with a L-1011 aircraft. Also look at Paul Allens company that is called Vulcan, I would bet money there is a plan for what Stratolaunch is doing.

The Vulcan is a surprisingly heavy launcher at 15+ tons to GTO.

Slcpilot wrote:

If and when it does fly, I can’t help but wonder if there’s a yoke/stick (?) disconnect feature. Some traditional airliners have some form of disconnect where each control input can control respective elevator halves.

I wonder if there is any provision for each input independently controlling each fuselage in the event of a torsional inequality between each fuselage. This would probably be an emergency situation.

Bonus points for the first cockpit picture too!

Cheers!

SLCPilot

Controlling two elevator halves with two independent human brains sounds like a recipe to at least induce unwanted roll, and possibly structurally damage the frame, due to the fact that it takes a split second to verbalize your control input and another split second for the "co" pilot to process*. The only time I have ever personally seen two people control primary flight controls simultaneously was when my instructor was trying to mess with me and make me think the wind gusts were too high for my landing and divert. The difference in my example is that he was an instructor simulating something and in total control...we weren't in the middle of an emergency.

I'm just shooting in the dark here, but going with your idea, Slcpilot: What if they had an elevator disconnect, so one pilot could at least fly the one good elevator? Use aileron (trim) and rudder (trim) to keep it straight and level after the emergency or incident occurs while the other pilot is troubleshooting the problem, navigating or talking to ATC. Something tells me my thoughts are in the days before computers and they have figured this out with modern flight control systems utilizing FBW etc.

*I can see it now in the review after the accident:
CAPTAIN: That was totally First Officer-Induced-Oscillation!
FIRST OFFICER: NO! Captain-Induced-Oscillation!

AirlineCritic wrote:

Ok, so we are now arm-chair-designing. And board commentators think they know better than Scaled. Hmm.... I'd put my money on Scaled having done their homework.

believe you meant "bored"...

Reading around it seems Paul Allen is building his own rocket motor - he has hired the man that designed Spacex's Vulcan engine.So I guess he is looking to build his own rocket to sling underneath.
However
On a different tack is 'Black Ice'.This idea is a spaceplane.He has previously been in discussion with the Dreamchaser team who looked at a scaled version of their spacecraft.I guess the idea is for the huge aircraft to do most of the work of a first stage - to an altitude of 45 k feet?
Then a second stage ( disposable?)to LEO and the spaceplane- To do the rest.
Not the most elegant solution since you loose the middle bit.But could. Work.

With respect to possible missions for ROC, beyond the acknowledged Pegasus missions, carrying large cargo has been discussed.

Would ROC be large enough to transport BFR or BFS? Transporting either rapidly, and being able to return them to the manufacturing site for refurbishment might be useful.

SLCPilot

Roll out happened more than a year now, and I know this is not the "usual" project, but how much until first flight? 6 months? 1 year?
In which stage are they?

Thank you.

tapairbus370 wrote:

Roll out happened more than a year now, and I know this is not the "usual" project, but how much until first flight? 6 months? 1 year?
In which stage are they?

Thank you.

I haven't heard anything since the initial taxi tests, no updates on the high-speed ground tests, and only the rumors (several months ago) of a summer launch.

Considering it's an active program for the largest aircraft in the world, which should be seeking plenty of PR for potential launch customers. For there to be ZERO info coming out of Stratolaunch for quite a long time now, I can't possibly come to any other conclusion than them running into something (potentially very serious) that was caught during tests a while ago.

I don't really know the program risk or how their investment structure is set up, but for press reasons alone, I'll go out on a limb here and say their keeping quiet lately for very specific reasons.

edit: I take that back, they just announced a new vice president of business development a couple weeks ago. The latest news prior to that was 8 months ago when they conducted low-speed taxi tests. Hmmmmm.

I'm actually surprised some of the aviation press outlets haven't jumped on this or pressured for more info. Some kind of sensational bombshell "what's REALLY happening at Stratolaunch" article lol.

I can agree with the notion that they may have run into something. I've received phone calls from recruiters indicating they are looking to bring in engineers for something. It could be completely unrelated and be for something else but I doubt that.

parapente wrote:

Reading around it seems Paul Allen is building his own rocket motor - he has hired the man that designed Spacex's Vulcan engine.So I guess he is looking to build his own rocket to sling underneath.
However
On a different tack is 'Black Ice'.This idea is a spaceplane.He has previously been in discussion with the Dreamchaser team who looked at a scaled version of their spacecraft.I guess the idea is for the huge aircraft to do most of the work of a first stage - to an altitude of 45 k feet?
Then a second stage ( disposable?)to LEO and the spaceplane- To do the rest.
Not the most elegant solution since you loose the middle bit.But could. Work.

Spacex doesn't have a Vulcan engine.

I'm beginning to think that the business case for this aircraft is fast evaporating as other small and mid-sized launch solutions are being marketed for competing costs. The one thing that this vehicle offers is launch flexibility, but with so many other solutions out there, that may not be as big of a deal as it once was. I suggest that they focus on cargo operations as a way to recover development costs. It would seem possible to develop a pair of cargo pods that could enable this plane to carry outsized cargo loads (volume over mass) a decent distance. It wouldn't require sacrificing launch vehicle capabilities either.

Some photos and comments. http://theaviationist.com/2018/08/13/ex ... ace-plane/

https://www.space.com/41548-stratolaunc ... ealed.html

So stratolaunch have revealed their future family of 'rockets' to go underneath their aircraft.Rather than being good news it looks ;to me) that they are rather lost.Not Pegasus -again.You absolutly do not need this sort of lifting capacity to launch it.
The rest of it is pie in the sky Frankly.They appear to have built the plane but forgot what to use it for.
Also their dream rockets look like conventional 2 stage rockets.Ok less power required for first stage but other than that?
Oh and they are disposable rockets I note.The World has moved on.

Pegasus can only be a temporary option. It's already expensive compared to newer ground based launchers and its only going to get worse.The Medium Launch Vehicle has to be what they're gambling on. Launch anywhere, anytime, any inclination, and with a proper payload. I could totally see a niche existing.

It seems a shame they can't find something 'off the shelf' like the Japanese Epsilon (solid motor) rocket.They could easily lift it and from an aircraft at 40k feet you could probably double the payload.Its also a 'cheap' and modern rocket.
But no doubt there are reasons.

Amazing looking aircraft...but a really foolish idea...Paul Allen must have a lot of money to burn.

Air launched rockets to orbit have never been a good idea. Pegasus didn't exactly dominate the launch business even for small satellites.The weight advantage of air launch about 20% less weight of launcher for a given payload. Booster-to-payload ratio is about 25 for ground launch and 20 for air launch...yet the total weight is limited by what the aircraft can carry.

Nobody is going to design, build and test a launcher to be used just for this aircraft, so they will have to find existing boosters...probably less efficient solid rockets with no reusability -- and rig them to this aircraft -- think of the logistics of mating a large launcher and aircraft. Unless of course Paul Allen has the money to create his own booster.

Stratolauch is an interesting aircraft, but will never amount to much...if it ever flies, let alone launches anything !!

Well uh..

That "space plane" looks an awful lot like this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dream_Chaser

As Wiki comments it has been looked at for a stratolaunch veichle.But...It does not appear in their plans.Right now Stratolaunch looks like a rebel without a cause.I hope it's not the case.
Either way it's an odd thing to develop such an aircraft without a clear route to market.

trpmb6 wrote:

Well uh..

That "space plane" looks an awful lot like this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dream_Chaser

Interesting, amusing:
https://appel.nasa.gov/2011/11/02/the-d ... he-future/

How many aircraft are they building? If only one.... any inadvertent contact with terra firma could cause significant delays, not to mention possible cancellation of program....

zanl188 wrote:

How many aircraft are they building? If only one.... any inadvertent contact with terra firma could cause significant delays, not to mention possible cancellation of program....

Right now it's problem is it's inability to leave terra firma

WIederling wrote:

trpmb6 wrote:

Well uh..

That "space plane" looks an awful lot like this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dream_Chaser

Interesting, amusing:
https://appel.nasa.gov/2011/11/02/the-d ... he-future/

Really neat how a NASA project influenced a Soviet project that now influences a NASA (well SNC now) project. Thanks for sharing!

trpmb6 wrote:

Really neat how a NASA project influenced a Soviet project that now influences a NASA (well SNC now) project. Thanks for sharing!

Not the NASA project ( "civil" shuttle with a strong military vector ) but the military implications
that turned soviet interest towards space plane reentry vehicles. also see Spiral / MiG-105.

It's been nine months since the low speed tests. Is this project moving to slow to succeed?

Maiden flight to be by the end of the year.....hopefully.
This is the latest news Mr Google has on the subject.
https://futurism.com/stratolaunch-systems-launch-vehicles/

The Pegasus is old news and not commercial.In any event it's better off being launched from its existing Tristar aircraft.Think even Zbranson is going to launch it or something similar from an old Virgin 747.
The rest is made up stuff.Paper rockets.He really cocked up on this part of the mission.Initially good when in partnership with Space for a made to measure rocket.But since then nothing.
Hope it works out but at present it looks like doing a spruce goose.One flight then hanger queen.
But there is some demand for flying super heavy loads around the world.At present there is only the Russian ex Burion plane.So perhaps it could make a living hauling v big cargo elements?

neutrino wrote:

Maiden flight to be by the end of the year.....hopefully.
This is the latest news Mr Google has on the subject.
https://futurism.com/stratolaunch-systems-launch-vehicles/

That article is a month old, and the single sentence about a launch date was just interpreting previous information given by the team - nothing new and no new quotes or info from the actual people running things. "That maiden voyage could take place in the next few months, before the end of 2018." - that's what they've been saying for a LONG time now.

I just want to know why progressive testing has stopped, taxi stuff seems finished, they knocked those out in succession rather quickly with a decent amount of PR / media updates, etc etc.. like a normal program.

Then, BAM! Nothing.

I swear they saw something they didn't like, I can't think of any other explanation. I'm just surprised nothing has leaked out - and at this rate, I'd expect investors to react appropriately very soon.

She could just be another Spruce Goose.

parapente wrote:

The Pegasus is old news and not commercial.In any event it's better off being launched from its existing Tristar aircraft.Think even Zbranson is going to launch it or something similar from an old Virgin 747.
The rest is made up stuff.Paper rockets.He really cocked up on this part of the mission.Initially good when in partnership with Space for a made to measure rocket.But since then nothing.
Hope it works out but at present it looks like doing a spruce goose.One flight then hanger queen.
But there is some demand for flying super heavy loads around the world.At present there is only the Russian ex Burion plane.So perhaps it could make a living hauling v big cargo elements?

I just read your post and mention of Spruce Goose after I posted mine a second ago.. exactly my thoughts!

estorilm wrote:

I swear they saw something they didn't like, I can't think of any other explanation. I'm just surprised nothing has leaked out - and at this rate, I'd expect investors to react appropriately very soon.

She could just be another Spruce Goose.

What investor's, it's one of Paul Allen's toys.

Such a shame really.
The fundamental idea of raising a rocket above most of the thick ,sticky,draggy atmosphere using the lifting properties of that very atmosphere is of course a neat idea (although not new).It ( in effect) makes an infinitely reusable first stage .

What is (was) new was to quadruple the size with a made to measure veichle that could for the first time launch a medium sized rocket with full sized payloads rather something that could launch 'tennis ball' sized satellites.
As stated above,they knew this from the outset which is why they partnered up with Spacex.The moment that broke down they needed to find another partner from somewhere.
It's a great shame that spaceplane Dreamchaser is a little too big (it appears).Its no good saying you might make a slightly smaller one as that is the same as starting from scratch.
But still hope it can fly.And yes there is a specialist global market for super outsized cargo.Not huge,but enough for one aircaft I imagine.

Are there any other links that detail yesterday’s taxi tests? It seems possible there might be some directional control issues based on at least one report.

The gear configuration has always looked a little unusual to me based on four things. 1) There is a short couple between the nose gear and the main gear 2) The main gear length is very long, almost like an AN-124 3) The gear width is almost certainly the widest ever, besides outrigger wheels 4) the fuselage is tall and narrow, which might allow lateral flexing individually.

The gear width could imaginably cause issues. As anybody who has flown a Rutan Q-2 or Quickee will attest, full attention to directional control is required during every takeoff and landing.

http://www.parabolicarc.com/2018/09/21/stratolaunch-aircraft-taxis-mojave/

Thoughts?

SLCPilot

IIRC the main gear are 747 body gears. They steered on the 747 and I suspect they will do so on this aircraft as well.

zanl188 wrote:

IIRC the main gear are 747 body gears. They steered on the 747 and I suspect they will do so on this aircraft as well.

They steered during taxi turns not during takeoff or landing.

starrion wrote:

It's been nine months since the low speed tests. Is this project moving to slow to succeed?

It's a whole different story without Burt Rutan running things. The Skunk works got a worthy successor to Kelly Johnson in Ben Rich. Scaled Composites became just another aerospace company once Rutan gave up the reigns.

with Paul Allen's death today, I wonder if this program will continue or falter

kanban wrote:

with Paul Allen's death today, I wonder if this program will continue or falter

My thoughts also.

Not looking good but hope I'm wrong and that monster won't end up as a "paper aeroplane".
At least one flight, please.

His foundation announced no quick changes for his museums and collections are coming up. He must have been well prepared so there is hope he has planned for the future of some projects like Stratolaunch. However those shuttles as payloads where more far out.
I read elsewhere his sister might intend to sell some stuff, especially the sports teams.

If the aircraft is technically ok it would be nice to think that Paul would have wanted it to fly and perhaps left instructions for this to happen.
But beyond this?

I am assuming Stratolaunch Systems is still a viable operating business concern even with the passing of Mr. Allen.

Stitch wrote:

I am assuming Stratolaunch Systems is still a viable operating business concern even with the passing of Mr. Allen.

I don't think Stratolaunch would be a viable operating business even with Mr. Allen alive and well.

QuarkFly wrote:

Stitch wrote:

I am assuming Stratolaunch Systems is still a viable operating business concern even with the passing of Mr. Allen.

I don't think Stratolaunch would be a viable operating business even with Mr. Allen alive and well.

Just another CargoLifter.

Well it would make a great cargo lifter.I guess you could cheaply design a giant carbon fibre pod that could take an enormous variety of products.But it may have a very constrained range.
The origonal idea was sound enough -as long as it had a tailor made second stage ( which was the origonal plan).Its perhaps a bit late now reconsidering this.
We don't know the cost of refurbing Falcon 9 stage one's but if it is as cheap as they suggest then perhaps sadly this aircraft stage 1 concept is obsolete.Shame really.As an outsized Virgin galactic concept it would have been a great way to get a winged/manned veichle into LEO on a cheap and regular basis -perhaps for space tourism if an orbiting hotel existed.

I don´t know if this was before or after Paul Allen passed away, but at least it shows the project is alive, in my opinion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tUFzG8xEec&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR0p_4grMhdzIeaM8lzo9yA6k32Ij5OEzVEtf1tsh0RT_vcyHNn6D_trV8M

https://www.foxnews.com/tech/paul-allen ... -his-death

They have continued with ground tests ( after Allan's passing) and according to this article this test was an important milestone.Of course one does not know the results of the test (stresses etc) but if good there seems to be no logical reason why they would not test fly it.
If successful it would then be down to the future economics of small sat launches market and the appropriate sister veichle/rocket.

Personally I feel that if Spacex really have got reuability/refurbing to the levels they are targeting then everybody else (not just stratolaunch) are in big doo doo.
The only reason to doubt this was the real costs of the (reusable) shuttle when it came down to it.It worked (mostly) from an engineering POV but not economically.This has to be the question mark about the BFS as well (ablaitment heat shield etc).
But to date the Block5 seems to be holding to its promises.So we will see.

But as a general point.What a time to be interested in space when there are about 7 private companies going for it in very different ways!

A high speed taxi video was released.
Maybe we'll have a first flight before year's end.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_ ... oser=false

I hope will be able to see the vídeo.

It's very good to see they continue first flight preparations.

Supposedly first flight to be attempted Monday. I hope all goes well!

https://mobile.twitter.com/NicolaPecile/status/1083927757510209536

SLCPilot

Good spot.But weather does not look great.But any time next week will do!
Even if it ends up as the Worlds largest water bomber it would be fun ( California seems to need it these days).
Reading around the subject there does seem to be more than a whiff of the US military being interested as an instant response 'anywhere' sat' launcher.

Looks like there are winter storms in the area with rain and snow and low clouds. No first flight weather for the time.