Egypt To Buy A400M Aircraft

KarelXWB · Tue Nov 24, 2015 9:40 am

Seems that Egypt may order up to 12 A400M aircraft.

Quote:
Egypt is planning to order 12 Airbus A400Ms for €1.8bn.

However, the article says that Germany may not authorize this order.

Quote:
The sale could be vetoed by Germany over tech transfer.

The German government, through the Federal Security Council, authorizing or not the sale of arms to certain countries. Saudi Arabia, for example, was unable to acquire up to 800 Leopard tanks because the platform on which it is built is German.

Source
http://andaluciainformacion.es/andal...-a400m-a-airbus-por-1800-millones/

Kiwirob · Tue Nov 24, 2015 1:52 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Thread starter):
However, the article says that Germany may not authorize this order.

That could also be a ploy the Germans are using to offload some of there additional aircraft.

WIederling · Tue Nov 24, 2015 3:19 pm

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 1):

Oh yes, Bundestag saying NO is a ploy to offload those A400M frames!

mjoelnir · Tue Nov 24, 2015 3:47 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Thread starter):

It says were simple only that Germany can say yes or no, not what the decision will be.

LGAviation · Tue Nov 24, 2015 3:52 pm

Quoting WIederling (Reply 2):
Quoting kiwirob (Reply 1):

Oh yes, Bundestag saying NO is a ploy to offload those A400M frames!

Mighty Bundestag doesn't decide on export permits, merely Greek bailouts

The Federal Security Council is the deciding body in this case and to be honest nobody knows how they'll decide considering the ambiguity in relations between the German Govt and the Egyptian regime under General El Sisi

kc135topboom · Wed Dec 02, 2015 6:14 pm

Quoting LGAviation (Reply 4):
The Federal Security Council is the deciding body in this case and to be honest nobody knows how they'll decide considering the ambiguity in relations between the German Govt and the Egyptian regime under General El Sisi

Lets not go down that road.

There really is no reason not to sell the EAF the A-400. The EAF already operates sophisticated aircraft like the F-16C/D, Rafale, E-2C, C/KC/VC-130H, AH-64D, and others. They also have the Il-76MD-90A on order. If the EU won't sell the A-400M to the EAF, they can always buy the C-130J/-J-30. I'm sure Russia will sell them more Il-76/-78s too.

Revelation · Wed Dec 02, 2015 9:22 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Thread starter):
Seems that Egypt may order up to 12 A400M aircraft.

Which is one short of the 13 frames Spain just dropped (ref: "A400M Update" thread)

Quoting KarelXWB (Thread starter):
However, the article says that Germany may not authorize this order.

Hmm, Germany is on the hook for a similar number of frames it intends to sell on rather than use...

KarelXWB · Thu Dec 03, 2015 10:15 am

Quoting Revelation (Reply 6):
Which is one short of the 13 frames Spain just dropped (ref: "A400M Update" thread)

Not so fast, the Flightglobal article says it's just temporary reduction in A400M acquisition.

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...mporary-reduction-in-a400m-419604/

kc135topboom · Sat Dec 05, 2015 12:26 am

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 7):
Not so fast, the Flightglobal article says it's just temporary reduction in A400M acquisition.

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...mporary-reduction-in-a400m-419604/

Sometimes in the defense procurement world, a "temporary reduction" becomes permanent.

Will the A-400M even be in production in 2024 when Spain may be ready to reorder them? It is my understanding the last of the 174 airplanes (currently) on order is scheduled to be delivered in 2019, to Luxembourg.

KarelXWB · Sat Dec 05, 2015 9:58 am

They can always sell more planes beyond the 174 on order?

kc135topboom · Thu Dec 10, 2015 11:42 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 9):
They can always sell more planes beyond the 174 on order?

Yes. But no one has been beating down the doors to order any. They seem to be going for the last of the C-17s, the C-130Js, and the KC-390s.

JJJ · Fri Dec 11, 2015 11:21 am

Quoting kc135topboom (Reply 5):
If the EU won't sell the A-400M to the EAF, they can always buy the C-130J/-J-30.

They also already operate the CASA-295 made in the same factory as the A400M

So they will most likely get export approval.

Zkpilot · Mon Dec 14, 2015 3:24 am

the RNZAF is a strong candidate to take 5 frames.
Either that or they take the last white tail C-17 and 1 ex-USAF C-17 and then get 3-4x C-130J

Ozair · Mon Dec 14, 2015 5:01 am

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 12):
the RNZAF is a strong candidate to take 5 frames.
Either that or they take the last white tail C-17 and 1 ex-USAF C-17 and then get 3-4x C-130J

Which do you see as the higher priority, a single fleet type or compatibility with Australia?

Kiwirob · Mon Dec 14, 2015 2:16 pm

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 12):
Either that or they take the last white tail C-17 and 1 ex-USAF C-17 and then get 3-4x C-130J

Do the US have any aircraft that they would be willing to sell? I don't think Hercs are worth the time and effort to purchase, they might as well buy A400's as well as the C-17, can't fit a LAV or NH-90 in a Herc, being able to fit them into an A400 as well as the C-17 would be beneficial IMO

ZaphodHarkonnen · Tue Dec 15, 2015 8:55 am

Quoting Ozair (Reply 13):
Which do you see as the higher priority, a single fleet type or compatibility with Australia?

The requirement that would select a C17 is not any commonality with Aus but rather the ability to carry a decent load from CHC to Antarctica and back without having a point of no return which currently exists for the 757s and C130s.

The RAAF having C17s makes a small fleet more palatable as the NZ government could do a joint maintenance thing.

Zkpilot · Tue Dec 15, 2015 9:29 am

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 14):
Do the US have any aircraft that they would be willing to sell? I don't think Hercs are worth the time and effort to purchase, they might as well buy A400's as well as the C-17, can't fit a LAV or NH-90 in a Herc, being able to fit them into an A400 as well as the C-17 would be beneficial IMO

The USAF has stated that they have about 30x too many after congress basically forced them to take them.
The C-17 is too much aircraft for the RNZAF day to day needs and as mentioned is really only going to be there for Antarctica operations and for strategic lift for the LAVs etc. The A400 is also too much aircraft if it is not doing both strategic and tactical lift. If no C-17s then it is almost certainly going to be the aircraft for RNZAF. C-130J can take a LAV just not in combat ready format. That's what the C-17 would do.

zeke · Tue Dec 15, 2015 9:37 am

Quoting ZaphodHarkonnen (Reply 15):
The RAAF having C17s makes a small fleet more palatable as the NZ government could do a joint maintenance thing.

I can see both Australia and New Zealand getting A400s in the future. They are well suited to providing relief supplies that both nations are often called upon in the Pacific and SE Asia.

Zkpilot · Thu Dec 17, 2015 1:57 am

Quoting zeke (Reply 17):
I can see both Australia and New Zealand getting A400s in the future.

Not sure about Australia... They have a large C-17 fleet (more than they need but they have them for redundancy and for life extension purposes...ie fly each frame less to prolong their life).
The A400 is a great aircraft (despite it's issues) but I think it is too large to be operated at the same time as the C-17.

Ozair · Thu Dec 17, 2015 2:17 am

Quoting ZaphodHarkonnen (Reply 15):
The requirement that would select a C17 is not any commonality with Aus but rather the ability to carry a decent load from CHC to Antarctica and back without having a point of no return which currently exists for the 757s and C130s.

That is a pretty unique requirement. Would it not be better to lease Australian C-17 time given they have just demonstrated that capability?

http://australianaviation.com.au/201...-of-concept-flights-to-antarctica/

Quoting zeke (Reply 17):
I can see both Australia and New Zealand getting A400s in the future. They are well suited to providing relief supplies that both nations are often called upon in the Pacific and SE Asia.

I don't see a need for A400 for the RAAF and don't think it will be in production if/when the RAAF was ready to order. The C-17s have at least 30 years of service in them while the C-130s are expected to be in RAAF service until at least 2030. The C-27s are brand new and will probably replace some C-130 roles, pushing any C-130 retirement further out.

NZ on the other hand, the A400 seems custom made for them.

Kiwirob · Thu Dec 17, 2015 8:06 am

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 16):
C-130J can take a LAV just not in combat ready format. That's what the C-17 would do.

It's not just the LAV, the RNZAF has a requirement to transport the NH90, which the C-130 cannot do. Plus a LAV is very close to the C-130's maximum cargo weight, when the LAV's are upgraded they will put on a few thousand KG's.

ZaphodHarkonnen · Thu Dec 17, 2015 9:50 am

Quoting Ozair (Reply 19):
That is a pretty unique requirement. Would it not be better to lease Australian C-17 time given they have just demonstrated that capability?

You're still tied into when the Aussies will have them available which can include short notice removal. And that assumes the Aussies even want to lease them out. Given they bought more after their first batch I think it would be fair to assume they have enough work to keep themselves busy.

And yes, it's a very unique requirement. If it wasn't one then the C-17 would be a complete non starter.

r2rho · Thu Dec 17, 2015 3:55 pm

Quoting JJJ (Reply 11):
They also already operate the CASA-295 made in the same factory as the A400M

So they will most likely get export approval.

The C295 is a much more "pure Spanish" design, that Airbus inherited from CASA. There's nothing that Germany can block there. OTOH the A400M has significant German content.

KarelXWB · Mon Dec 19, 2016 9:24 am

* bump *

On Twitter today:

Head of @AirbusDS said that an agreement w #Egypt is expected in 2017 while negotiations for 12 A400M cargo plane are ongoing.

https://twitter.com/BTelawy/status/809774282784014336

Egypt To Buy A400M Aircraft

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