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Devilfish
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Re: Israel Air Force One

Wed Aug 10, 2016 3:54 pm

jasonmiller wrote:
Looks like a B757 to me.

25494, 25493 or 29025? Seems like a widebody, though the vert stab looks slim and tall. Tail colors appear to be blue, white and red.....

<twoid:2738476,0861099> <photoid:0189000>
 
jasonmiller
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Joined: Sun Feb 06, 2005 3:26 pm

Re: Israel Air Force One

Wed Aug 17, 2016 9:44 pm

According to this very reliable blog that is known to post lots of "secret" information that Israel censors, it is a B767-300ER:

Break the Gag

Never fear, that day is upon us. An Israeli source has resolved a few of the mysteries. The plane is a Boeing 767-300ER. The retrofitting upgrade is being performed by Israel Aircraft Industries, one of Israel’s major aviation defense contractors. Contrary to what’s reported above, Ynet has estimated the cost of purchasing the plane at $70-million. Retrofitting it will cost another $40-million and regular maintenance will cost $30-million. That comes out to a cool $140-million.


http://www.richardsilverstein.com/2016/ ... ions-cost/
 
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Devilfish
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Re: Israel Air Force One

Thu Aug 18, 2016 4:30 pm

jasonmiller wrote:
Ynet has estimated the cost of purchasing the plane at $70-million.

Hmmn.....let's see what's available in the used market.....

http://www.controller.com/listings/airc ... MDLGrp=767

There's a 22 year-old 763ER for $7.25M, a 16 year-old 762ER for $17M, a gaggle of 13-14 y.o. non-ER 763s for $28M ea, and lastly, a 14 year-old 767-200ER in VIP configuration - price undisclosed. Either the IADF is getting a late production 763ER, re-engining an older frame, or the agent made a handsome commission. Couldn't think of a 767-300ER in a VIP configuration already. From the photo, they're at least keeping the comfortable seven-abreast seating in the rear cabin. For the money, I'd say the VIP jet could have been a good compromise...except that the prices are in U.S. dollars.
 
jasonmiller
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Re: Israel Air Force One

Thu Aug 18, 2016 11:59 pm

Devilfish wrote:
or the agent made a handsome commission.


Perhaps this is why the info is censored...
 
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oneeleven111
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Re: Israel Air Force One

Sun Aug 28, 2016 6:28 pm

Looks rather like a Transaero colour scheme to me?
 
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Devilfish
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Re: Israel Air Force One

Wed Jan 04, 2017 4:37 pm

oneeleven111 wrote:
Looks rather like a Transaero colour scheme to me?

Could be this frame then.....

Image


.....although EI-UNC (msn 29388) is younger. Anyway, Flightglobal reports that the project has received initial funding.....

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articl ... sp-432864/

Quote:
"An initial budget of $71 million was approved on 26 December for the acquisition of an Israeli “air force one” governmental VIP transport.

The initial go-ahead was given in August 2016, but much of the programme has since been shrouded in secrecy.

The undisclosed aircraft has been bought and has arrived at hangars belonging to the Bedek group, part of Israel Aerospace Industries.

Bedek will convert the used aircraft to its new role, which will include the installation of Elbit Systems’ Multi Spectral Infrared Countermeasure (Music) system that protects the aircraft from shoulder-launched missiles.

The total budget of some $100 million will cover the purchase of the aircraft and its conversion for the mission, and the December approval by a parliamentary committee will enable Bedek to start work on the aircraft."



I wonder if it would be fitted with winglets and be painted in standard air force gray or get a more colorful VIP aircraft livery? :scratchchin:
 
45272455674
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Re: Israel Air Force One

Wed Jan 04, 2017 8:51 pm

Devilfish wrote:
oneeleven111 wrote:
Looks rather like a Transaero colour scheme to me?

Could be this frame then.....



Well spotted - it seems like it is a one of those.

Can't believe they'd go to the effort to censor the image of the plane, really really stupid. If they were so worried, they should have flew it in at night, parked it in a hangar and never released any images of it.
 
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SR380
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Re: Israel Air Force One

Mon Aug 13, 2018 10:01 pm

Any updates on the Israeli Air Force One?
 
B777LRF
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Re: Israel Air Force One

Sun Aug 19, 2018 7:52 pm

FFS guys, Israel is a small and not terribly rich country, with a long tradition of equality, kibbutz-socialism and keeping under the radar. Surely they don't need a widebody, and could easily settle for a BBJ or even a G650.
 
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trpmb6
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Re: Israel Air Force One

Mon Aug 20, 2018 1:52 pm

B777LRF wrote:
Surely they don't need a widebody, and could easily settle for a BBJ or even a G650.


Israeli news sources claim it's a 767. Main reason being is the ability to fly non-stop just about anywhere (particularly after additional fuel carrying capabilities retrofitted). Once you throw in secure communication capabilities, defensive capabilities, offices/conference rooms and press pool seating you quickly eat up a lot of space.

After reviewing wikipedia, I was a little surprised to see how many countries operate A340s.
 
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flyingclrs727
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Re: Israel Air Force One

Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:29 pm

trpmb6 wrote:
B777LRF wrote:
Surely they don't need a widebody, and could easily settle for a BBJ or even a G650.


Israeli news sources claim it's a 767. Main reason being is the ability to fly non-stop just about anywhere (particularly after additional fuel carrying capabilities retrofitted). Once you throw in secure communication capabilities, defensive capabilities, offices/conference rooms and press pool seating you quickly eat up a lot of space.

After reviewing wikipedia, I was a little surprised to see how many countries operate A340s.


Well A340's do have the advantage of being able to continue on to the destination if one engine is shut down. Lots of them have been retired early from airline service with lots potential of life left. They could stay in service for decades as VIP/head of state aircraft. If I were going to operate an A340 or any other 4-engined aircraft as a head of state plane, I would maintain the engines to at least ETOPS 180 standards.
 
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Stitch
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Re: Israel Air Force One

Tue Aug 21, 2018 2:26 am

flyingclrs727 wrote:
Well A340's do have the advantage of being able to continue on to the destination if one engine is shut down.


ETOPS often does not apply to a military / government transport.


flyingclrs727 wrote:
Lots of them have been retired early from airline service with lots potential of life left.


This is likely the more common reason, at least for frames acquired over the last decade when feed stock was high and values were low.
 
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Slug71
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Re: Israel Air Force One

Wed Aug 22, 2018 4:06 am

flyingclrs727 wrote:
trpmb6 wrote:
B777LRF wrote:
Surely they don't need a widebody, and could easily settle for a BBJ or even a G650.


Israeli news sources claim it's a 767. Main reason being is the ability to fly non-stop just about anywhere (particularly after additional fuel carrying capabilities retrofitted). Once you throw in secure communication capabilities, defensive capabilities, offices/conference rooms and press pool seating you quickly eat up a lot of space.

After reviewing wikipedia, I was a little surprised to see how many countries operate A340s.


Well A340's do have the advantage of being able to continue on to the destination if one engine is shut down. Lots of them have been retired early from airline service with lots potential of life left. They could stay in service for decades as VIP/head of state aircraft.


It really is the perfect frame for a head of state aircraft. Especially the -500 with its range. I hope it has a successful "afterlife" in this role. I think theres a good chance it (A340) will eventually be selected for South Africa's head of state aircraft too.
 
B777LRF
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Re: Israel Air Force One

Wed Aug 22, 2018 4:20 pm

Slug71 wrote:
[It really is the perfect frame for a head of state aircraft. Especially the -500 with its range. I hope it has a successful "afterlife" in this role. I think theres a good chance it (A340) will eventually be selected for South Africa's head of state aircraft too.


Perhaps, if you're a G7 or, at a stretch, a G20 member. Israel is neither, and as they've proven on the G550, defensive systems and secure communications can be integrated integrated in that airframe. Shouldn't be much of a stress, to introduce those mods to a G650. Boeing have the plans for installation of defensive and comms on the 737 airframe; if the G650 is a bit tight, a BBJ should be more than enough. Neither the BBJ or G650 are frames short on range and, without checking, I'd guess the BBJ is not far off a 767, whilst the G will outfly both and continue for a fair few hours, whilst flying much faster.

Carrying a huge entourage, including press, is a luxury - not a need.

The only thing flying an A340 or 747 proves if you're not G20, is that you're most likely the dictator of a 3rd world flee infested rathole. Even so, quite a few G7 and G20 members make do with BBJs or Gulfstreams. No reason why Israel can't do the same, unless they suffer from a major inferiority complex and are attempting to compensate. Somebody should probably pass the word, it only make them look like a Sheikh from one their oil-rich regional neighbours.
 
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flyingclrs727
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Re: Israel Air Force One

Wed Aug 22, 2018 6:23 pm

Slug71 wrote:
flyingclrs727 wrote:
trpmb6 wrote:

Israeli news sources claim it's a 767. Main reason being is the ability to fly non-stop just about anywhere (particularly after additional fuel carrying capabilities retrofitted). Once you throw in secure communication capabilities, defensive capabilities, offices/conference rooms and press pool seating you quickly eat up a lot of space.

After reviewing wikipedia, I was a little surprised to see how many countries operate A340s.


Well A340's do have the advantage of being able to continue on to the destination if one engine is shut down. Lots of them have been retired early from airline service with lots potential of life left. They could stay in service for decades as VIP/head of state aircraft.


It really is the perfect frame for a head of state aircraft. Especially the -500 with its range. I hope it has a successful "afterlife" in this role. I think theres a good chance it (A340) will eventually be selected for South Africa's head of state aircraft too.


Even a -600 with a lightweight VIP configuration should have rather impressive range.
 
LightningZ71
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Re: Israel Air Force One

Wed Aug 22, 2018 8:13 pm

Israel does a lot of their contingency planning assuming that they will be denied access to the airspace of all of their neighboring countries. As a result, they plan to have a lot of extra provisions on their executive transports and and in air travel range to help deal with long, circuitous flight plans and being grounded for long periods of time.
 
Max Q
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Re: Israel Air Force One

Fri Aug 24, 2018 3:52 am

Perfect choice for a head of state really


Spacious enough for the principal and staff with enough room for meeting, rest areas, galleys and a small ‘steerage cabin’ for press etc


But not so big as to be ostentatious
or unecessarily high profile


It’s also very capable, with good speed and range even without supplementary fuel tanks


I’d say it’s ideal

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