A330MRTT News, Orders, Production And Testing

r2rho · Wed Jul 08, 2015 11:55 am

Given the lack of a generic Orders / Deliveries / Flight Test thread for the A330MRTT / KC-30, the popularity and usefulness of such threads for other programs, and the fact that many smaller updates may not warrant their own thread, I have allowed myself to start this one.

Hoping for regular updates and contributions, here are some infos to kick off with:

Recent Developments:

South Korea to buy 4x A330MRTT
South Korea To Purchase 4 A330 Tankers (by KarelXWB Jun 30 2015 in Military Aviation & Space Flight)
http://militaryaircraft-airbusds.com... ... -MRTT.aspx

Australia's RAAF will get 2 ex-QF / CIT passenger frames for conversion - the 1st time this is being done.
http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art... ... tt-414396/

Overview of Operators:

Singapore: 6 on order
Australia: 5 in service, 2 conversions on order
UK: 11 in service, 3 more on order
Saudi Arabia: 5 in service, 1 more on order
UAE: 3 in service

Expected, but not official:

- 12x France
- 2x Qatar
- ?x India
- 2x Spain

KarelXWB · Wed Jul 08, 2015 12:09 pm

Quoting r2rho (Thread starter):
Expected, but not official:

You can add Netherlands, Norway and Poland to the list as well.

http://www.janes.com/article/51017/n...and-to-jointly-issue-a330-mrtt-rfp

KarelXWB · Wed Jul 08, 2015 12:11 pm

And Belgium too:

http://www.airrecognition.com/index....y-3-airbus-a330-mrtt-aircraft.html

Quote:
According to the 2015 new defence plan, the Belgian Ministry of Defence intends to buy three A330 MRTT's. The Belgian government is investigating the €840 million plan of minister Steven Vandeput as well as the option of equipping the ordered Belgian A400M fleet of seven planes with under-wing pods. A combined Belgian A330 MRTT and A400M fleet would cost up to €1 billion.

KarelXWB · Wed Jul 08, 2015 12:14 pm

Quoting r2rho (Thread starter):
Saudi Arabia: 5 in service, 1 more on order

It seems the 6th and final A330 MRTT for Saudi Arabia was delivered last month.

http://twitter.com/JMESPARCIA/status/612222254550663170
http://miragec14.blogspot.com.es/201...rabia-takes-delivery-of-final.html

[Edited 2015-07-08 05:15:06]

bunumuring · Thu Jul 09, 2015 12:52 am

One of the RAAF conversions could well end up a dedicated 'Air Force One' style VIP transport. As such, it may not have the full range of MRTT capabilities and modifications.
I personally am irritated by the KC-30 designation used by the RAAF. I would much prefer the name 'Voyager' be adopted, borrowed from the RAF. I would also love to see the proposed VIP A330 for the RAAF painted in the QF-originating 'Wunula' colourscheme, or something similar to it by the Balanarinji Studio, to showcase our indigenous art and culture. Just imagine the exposure it would get, landing in a foreign capital to offload the PM...
I also think maybe another couple of ex-QF A330s may find their way into the RAAF fleet over time. Just a hunch that seven may not be the final total number of A330s in the RAAF fleet.
As for the listed potential A330MRTT users, I thought that Poland was still considering the Pegasus? Is that not the case anymore?
What about Turkey? I thought that there was some interest in obtaining a few tankers for the Turkish Air Force?
I guess that the one-time long-ago Greek interest in obtaining a few tankers is definitely dead, sadly...
Cheers,
Bunumuring.

Kiwirob · Thu Jul 09, 2015 7:18 am

Quoting bunumuring (Reply 4):
I would also love to see the proposed VIP A330 for the RAAF painted in the QF-originating 'Wunula' colourscheme, or something similar to it by the Balanarinji Studio, to showcase our indigenous art and culture. Just imagine the exposure it would get, landing in a foreign capital to offload the PM...

I suspect it would get the same response as many non Kiwi's give to maori welcomes, a lot of giggles.

KarelXWB · Thu Jul 09, 2015 8:30 am

Singapore's first A330 MRTT was spotted on July 5.

http://digitalairliners.com/toulouse...e-blagnac-5th-july-2015-0750-1030/

Quote:
MSN 1667 F-WWYH all primer, engineless – flightline…painted as “F-WWY_”

Stealthz · Thu Jul 09, 2015 10:11 am

Quoting bunumuring (Reply 4):
I would also love to see the proposed VIP A330 for the RAAF painted in the QF-originating 'Wunula' colourscheme, or something similar to it by the Balanarinji Studio,

Can't say I would be a big fan of that.
Certainly would like a distinctive livery, something along the lines of the USAF SAM aircraft. not the same design but something more lavish that the std RAAF white/grey with "French"flag

KarelXWB · Thu Jul 09, 2015 10:41 am

Quoting r2rho (Thread starter):
Overview of Operators:

Quoting r2rho (Thread starter):
Expected, but not official:

This article is also helpful:

http://airinsight.com/2015/06/30/tanker-competitions/

india1 · Thu Jul 09, 2015 11:00 am

[quote=KarelXWB,reply=8]This article is also helpful:

http://airinsight.com/2015/06/30/tanker-competitions/

Thank you, Karel!

What I found surprising there is that the MMRT has garnered 65 sales against 100 for the KC46, albeit in dribs & drabs vs one shot!

r2rho · Thu Jul 09, 2015 11:53 am

Thanks all for the contributions to kick off this thread

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 1):
You can add Netherlands, Norway and Poland to the list as well.
http://www.janes.com/article/51017/n...and-to-jointly-issue-a330-mrtt-rfp

And Belgium too:
http://www.airrecognition.com/index....y-3-airbus-a330-mrtt-aircraft.html

It seems that NL / Norway / Poland would be ordering their 4 frames through the European Defense Agency EDA, likely to be used as a pool. I find it therefore surprising that Belgium and Spain would go it alone with just 3+2 frames respectively. It would make much more sense for them to join this common effort, both from an acquisition price as well as operational efficiency point of view, rather than operating their own tiny fleets.
Once again, Europe's Defense capabilities are artificially limited by the complete lack of cooperation...

scbriml · Thu Jul 09, 2015 6:23 pm

Quoting india1 (Reply 9):
What I found surprising there is that the MMRT has garnered 65 sales against 100 for the KC46, albeit in dribs & drabs vs one shot!

Strictly speaking, only the first four development KC-46s have been ordered so far.

Stitch · Thu Jul 09, 2015 7:33 pm

Quoting india1 (Reply 9):
What I found surprising there is that the MMRT has garnered 65 sales against 100 for the KC46, albeit in dribs & drabs vs one shot!

The USAF is a much larger customer - larger than most of the other world's air forces put together - and it's basing and deployment needs favor larger numbers of smaller, less-capable frames. So even if the USAF ends up being the KC-46A's only customer, chances are they will take delivery of more than the 179 currently requested (though not funded).

india1 · Fri Jul 10, 2015 3:47 am

@ scbriml & stitch - what I meant was that I was surprised that the bits & pieces orders from other countries added up to 60+ frames. The USAF KC-46 order of course was a huge winner take all, but the twos & threes for the MRTT are not insignificant when totalled up.

And scbriml - similarly, all the MRTTs listed aren't technically firm orders yet, either! (IAF included!!!)

Stitch · Fri Jul 10, 2015 6:57 pm

Quoting india1 (Reply 13):
@ scbriml & stitch - what I meant was that I was surprised that the bits & pieces orders from other countries added up to 60+ frames.

Indeed. Many air forces are taking a fair number more A330MRTTs than the older models they are replacing. But then with the Cold War over, those countries are a fair bit more responsible for implementing their own foreign policy decisions so they may very well need larger forces than when they were just part of the larger umbrella of the US and USSR (and just following their leads).

Groover158 · Sat Jul 11, 2015 11:39 am

Quoting bunumuring (Reply 4):
I would also love to see the proposed VIP A330 for the RAAF painted in the QF-originating 'Wunula' colourscheme, or something similar to it by the Balanarinji Studio, to showcase our indigenous art and culture.

Not a fan of this idea. Why would the RAAF want to operate an aircraft painted in a scheme which is synonymous with Qantas jets. If you want the aircraft to be employable for operational tanking, then low-viz is how it should be painted.

Ozair · Sat Jul 11, 2015 11:56 am

Quoting groover158 (Reply 15):
Not a fan of this idea. Why would the RAAF want to operate an aircraft painted in a scheme which is synonymous with Qantas jets.

Agree 100%. I've never been a fan of that scheme and if one of these does become a VIP transport then it should first and foremost be a viable military asset.

bunumuring · Sat Jul 11, 2015 2:26 pm

Quoting groover158 (Reply 15):
Not a fan of this idea. Why would the RAAF want to operate an aircraft painted in a scheme which is synonymous with Qantas jets. If you want the aircraft to be employable for operational tanking, then low-viz is how it should be painted.

Quoting Ozair (Reply 16):
Agree 100%. I've never been a fan of that scheme and if one of these does become a VIP transport then it should first and foremost be a viable military asset.

Heheheh...
I only like the idea IF it becomes a dedicated VIP bird... Obviously if it's for 'combat' use, the standard grey would be necessary, like the RNZAF 757s that are used sporadically in the VIP role and are all over matt grey.
The current RAAF VIP scheme is boring and not very classy at all, in my opinion. Especially the tail: French flag indeed! Something new is definitely needed.
As for the 'Wunula' scheme itself, it's iconic. You two mightn't like it, but it seems the rest of the world does, including me! 'Nalanji', 'Yanyani' and 'the other one' however, are not so good.
Cheers,
Bunumuring.

kc135topboom · Sun Jul 12, 2015 10:39 pm

Quoting india1 (Reply 9):
What I found surprising there is that the MMRT has garnered 65 sales against 100 for the KC46, albeit in dribs & drabs vs one shot!

The A-330MRTT does not have "65 sales". France, Poland, India, and a few others have yet to order anything. Poland has not even selected the A-330. South Korea has not signed the contract.

Quoting scbriml (Reply 11):
Strictly speaking, only the first four development KC-46s have been ordered so far.

No sir, the first 18 tankers have been ordered, to date only the SDD aircraft have been funded. The funding for the remaining 14 KC-46s are funded in the FY-16 USAF budget

Quoting india1 (Reply 13):
all the MRTTs listed aren't technically firm orders yet, either! (IAF included!!!)

zeke · Mon Jul 13, 2015 1:46 am

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 18):

I think you will find your post was not factual, France has signed for 12 tankers starting 2018.

"French minister of defense announced a $3 billion deal to buy 12 Airbus A330 multirole tanker and transport aircraft for its military.

The defense deal, which happens to mark 50 years of the French Air Force's nuclear wing, will see the first aircraft arrive in 2018, the second in 2019 and then two per year after that until the order is complete. The aircraft will replace the Boeing C-135FR tankers that France has been using since the 1960s. "

Source http://www.ibtimes.com/airbus-sells-...fter-14-billion-deal-delta-1727799

This source indicates countries that have selected the A330 MRTT

"The A330 MRTT customer's list includes Australia, United Kingdom, Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates, Singapore and France. Furthermore, the Airbus DS tanker and transport aircraft has been selected by India, Qatar, Spain and the European Defence Agency –including the Netherlands, Norway and Poland."

Source http://www.airbusmarketingnews.com/e...68-a330-mrtt-for-india-is-on-track

india1 · Mon Jul 13, 2015 6:50 am

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 18):
The A-330MRTT does not have "65 sales". France, Poland, India, and a few others have yet to order anything. Poland has not even selected the A-330. South Korea has not signed the contract.

KC, my friend, I'd already addressed this in my subsequent post which you acknowledged. Point trying to be made is that I personally am pleasantly surprised at the total of the MRTTs being considered/negotiated/finalised/ordered.

scbriml · Mon Jul 13, 2015 7:39 am

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 18):
No sir, the first 18 tankers have been ordered, to date only the SDD aircraft have been funded.

Regardless of the semantics of 'ordered' and 'funded', Boeing only carries the four development aircraft in its order book.

bunumuring · Mon Jul 13, 2015 1:08 pm

To answer my own question about Turkish interest in tankers, a contact overseas has told me that the Turkish are interested in acquiring some tankers, but it's a low priority at the moment with absolutely no preference between KC-30s and KC-46s being made obvious. Perhaps some ex-Turkish Airlines A330s may eventually follow the ex-Qantas A330s through the MRTT conversion process?
In any case, I find it hard to see the A330 losing this tanker contest, if it eventuates.
Cheers,
Bunumuring.

wimdemeester · Wed Jul 15, 2015 12:30 pm

Not that long ago Airbus Military extended their offer for 6 + 6 MRTT till the end of June. That date has pased without anything happening so may we assume that this intention to order is dead right now?

KarelXWB · Wed Jul 15, 2015 1:55 pm

Quoting wimdemeester (Reply 23):
Not that long ago Airbus Military extended their offer for 6 + 6 MRTT till the end of June. That date has pased without anything happening so may we assume that this intention to order is dead right now?

I'm not sure what airline you are talking about?

wimdemeester · Wed Jul 15, 2015 4:36 pm

sorry, forgot to mention Indian Air Force

KarelXWB · Thu Jul 16, 2015 7:51 am

India recently agreed to go forward with the A330 AWACS program:

India To Go Ahead With A330 Awacs Program (by KarelXWB Mar 28 2015 in Military Aviation & Space Flight)

There have been no further updates regarding the A330 tanker order.

mjoelnir · Mon Jul 20, 2015 11:43 am

Quoting bunumuring (Reply 4):
ne of the RAAF conversions could well end up a dedicated 'Air Force One' style VIP transport. As such, it may not have the full range of MRTT capabilities and modifications.

And why should that be? One of the points of the A330MRTT is actually the possibility to use the fully fledged version for pax transport. With the RAF we see one and we will see more frames used by an airline will be in reserve for the tanker role.

bunumuring · Mon Jul 20, 2015 2:19 pm

Quoting mjoelnir (Reply 27):
And why should that be? One of the points of the A330MRTT is actually the possibility to use the fully fledged version for pax transport. With the RAF we see one and we will see more frames used by an airline will be in reserve for the tanker role.

Simple. It is easier I believe to build military spec 'stuff' into a new airframe and load it full of passenger amenities at the same time, than it is to take a second-hand pure passenger frame and retrofit it with all the military bits and pieces needed to turn an A330-200 passenger jet into a refuellable and tankable A330-200 MRTT.

Cheers,
Bunumuring.

zeke · Mon Jul 20, 2015 2:24 pm

Quoting bunumuring (Reply 28):

The RAAF 707 tankers were ex pax aircraft.

mjoelnir · Mon Jul 20, 2015 3:45 pm

Quoting bunumuring (Reply 28):
Simple. It is easier I believe to build military spec 'stuff' into a new airframe and load it full of passenger amenities at the same time, than it is to take a second-hand pure passenger frame and retrofit it with all the military bits and pieces needed to turn an A330-200 passenger jet into a refuellable and tankable A330-200 MRTT.

Cheers,
Bunumuring.

What you believe is one point, was has been done another. Again we have the situation with the RAF were at least 1 frame has had the fully fledged conversation, to be than used as a commercial airliner and being a reserve for crisis times.
I think 4 more are to follow.

KarelXWB · Thu Jul 23, 2015 3:15 pm

MSN 892 was transferred to Getafe Air Base in Spain for conversion.

Quote:
Airbus A330 -203 892 VH-EBH Qantas ferried 23jul15 XSP-LEGT for MRTT conversion, for Royal Australian Air Force

KarelXWB · Wed Sep 09, 2015 8:40 am

No A330 MRTT for Japan:

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...away-from-japan-tanker-rfp-416540/

Quote:
Airbus Defence and Space will not put forward its A330 Multi-Role Tanker Transport (MRTT) aircraft for a Japanese requirement calling for four tanker aircraft.

Stitch · Wed Sep 09, 2015 1:56 pm

I would expect the JASDF to order the KC-46, anyway, since it would leverage their current KC-767 investment.

breiz · Wed Sep 09, 2015 2:04 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 32):
No A330 MRTT for Japan:

Sorry Karel, i started a parallel thread on that subject.
I did not regard it as related to order, but to disorder.

KarelXWB · Fri Sep 11, 2015 8:05 am

MSN 1667 for Singapore made its first flight yesterday:

1st flight Airbus A330 MRTT Singapore Air Force | cn 1667 | F-WWYH by Jujug Spotting, on Flickr

INFINITI329 · Wed Sep 16, 2015 1:48 pm

*** Random Post*** I do think the KC-45 has a place in the USAF, maybe not immediately but in the near future. it was to big to replace the KC-135 but when the other flying gas station needs replacement this would be the perfect candidate in my opinion.

Stitch · Wed Sep 16, 2015 1:54 pm

Quoting infiniti329 (Reply 36):
*** Random Post*** I do think the KC-45 has a place in the USAF, maybe not immediately but in the near future. it was to big to replace the KC-135 but when the other flying gas station needs replacement this would be the perfect candidate in my opinion.

I expect the KC-10 replacement will now be more KC-46s. Making a KC-777 is going to be a non-starter due to the cost and the sheer size of the airframe and I expect cost and size will hurt the case of the A330MRTT / KC-45, as well.

INFINITI329 · Wed Sep 16, 2015 5:05 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 37):
I expect the KC-10 replacement will now be more KC-46s. Making a KC-777 is going to be a non-starter due to the cost and the sheer size of the airframe and I expect cost and size will hurt the case of the A330MRTT / KC-45, as well.

I agree the KC-777 would just be to big. I think the KC-45 will fit the niche that KC-10 fit. Going to the KC-46 would be a reduction of both cargo and fuel capacity from KC-10. The KC-45 would be an increase in both.

r2rho · Thu Oct 08, 2015 12:21 pm

Repost from KarelXWB on the (civil) A330 production thread:

Airbus A330 -243 MSN1667 Singapore Air Force ferried 30sep15 TLS-LEGT for MRTT-conversion, regd EC-333 ex F-WWYH

Mortyman · Sat Oct 17, 2015 9:28 am

Any news on the deal between Norway, Poland, Netherland and Belgium is going ? Is it going forward ? Has a purchase actually been made ? Or is it just talk ?

[Edited 2015-10-17 02:29:05]

Mortyman · Sat Oct 17, 2015 1:54 pm

How much does a Airbus A330 Mrtt actually cost ?

bunumuring · Sun Oct 18, 2015 12:05 pm

Any news on any other customers for the civil-to-tanker conversion of A330s besides Australia? Or of the RAAF getting additional A330s beyond the now-seven to be delivered?
I am just curious.
Cheers,
Bunumuring.

mjoelnir · Mon Oct 19, 2015 12:18 pm

Quoting bunumuring (Reply 42):
Any news on any other customers for the civil-to-tanker conversion of A330s besides Australia? Or of the RAAF getting additional A330s beyond the now-seven to be delivered?
I am just curious.
Cheers,
Bunumuring.

I think there are ten delivered with nine being "full time tankers" and # 10 the first one of the reserve 5 to be used civilian purpose until they are needed.

Kiwirob · Mon Oct 19, 2015 12:25 pm

Quoting mjoelnir (Reply 43):
I think there are ten delivered with nine being "full time tankers" and # 10 the first one of the reserve 5 to be used civilian purpose until they are needed.

RAF = Royal Air Force

RAAF = Royal Australian Air Force

mjoelnir · Mon Oct 19, 2015 3:21 pm

Quoting mjoelnir (Reply 43):
uoting mjoelnir (Reply 43):
I think there are ten delivered with nine being "full time tankers" and # 10 the first one of the reserve 5 to be used civilian purpose until they are needed.

RAF = Royal Air Force

RAAF = Royal Australian Air Force

sorry

Heavierthanair · Mon Nov 02, 2015 3:09 pm

G'day

Slightly off topic, but an interesting development nevertheless, with both the US Air Force (USAF) and US Navy (USN) having had discussions for gaining emergency refueling clearances for the A330 MRTT

http://www.janes.com/article/55676/u...al-refuelling-capacity-from-airbus

Cheers

Peter

Stitch · Mon Nov 02, 2015 5:00 pm

Quoting Heavierthanair (Reply 46):
Slightly off topic, but an interesting development nevertheless, with both the US Air Force (USAF) and US Navy (USN) having had discussions for gaining emergency refueling clearances for the A330 MRTT.

It does not strike me as strange that the USAF and USN are interested in being able to refuel from an A330MRTT since both services perform joint operations with A330MRTT operators.

[Edited 2015-11-02 09:05:24]

Flying-Tiger · Tue Nov 03, 2015 9:32 am

Mentioning of South Africa and Algeria as potential customers plus "announcement of repeat order expected":

http://www.sldinfo.com/raf-tanker-visits-south-africa/

bunumuring · Tue Nov 03, 2015 1:26 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 47):
It does not strike me as strange that the USAF and USN are interested in being able to refuel from an A330MRTT since both services perform joint operations with A330MRTT operators.

Just today I saw a photo in Australian Aviation (the magazine) of an RAAF A330MRTT refuelling an F-35 for the first time, somewhere in the US ...

Makes perfect sense to me.

Quoting Flying-Tiger (Reply 48):
Mentioning of South Africa and Algeria as potential customers plus "announcement of repeat order expected":

How on Earth could South Africa afford the A330MRTT when the arguably much more needed Hercules replacement order for A400Ms had to be cancelled due to budgetary reasons? Algeria I understand, as it has been buying lots of new defence equipment and is relatively (oil) cashed up. I remember Algeria being whispered about as a potential C-17 customer a few years ago. I also remember hearing that they were interested in a small fleet of Poseidons at one point?!?!?
And I guess Australia could be ruled out as a repeat customer of new A330MRTTs for the foreseeable future, after launching the civil-to-military conversion program based on two ex-Qantas A330-200s.

I see top up orders eventually coming in from the ME nations and Singapore, but only a few each. Korea? Maybe. New customers? The Polish-led troika, perhaps Brazil eventually, Chile maybe (more likely to be converted ex-civilian) and Indonesia, who I believe will become a much larger and 'more serious' purchaser of military equipment in the mid-future. Thailand and Vietnam perhaps, but definitely longshots. I bet Malaysia would also love a few. The 'Stans may be interested as well, longer term.

Which way do you think Canada will eventually go? New or converted A330s? New Pegasus'? Converted 767s (ex-AC even)? Hand-me-downs from the US? That will be an interesting one to watch in the future!

Cheers,
Bunumuring.

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