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Stitch
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Re: A330MRTT Orders, Production And Testing

Sat Nov 12, 2016 7:55 pm

Would the RCAF need something as large as the A330? The KC-46A would be similar in size to the A310 (so it should work with current basing facilities) and appears to offer significantly more fuel capacity (if I am reading the Wikipedia specs correctly) as well as better range.
 
ThePointblank
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Re: A330MRTT Orders, Production And Testing

Sun Nov 13, 2016 4:48 am

Stitch wrote:
Would the RCAF need something as large as the A330? The KC-46A would be similar in size to the A310 (so it should work with current basing facilities) and appears to offer significantly more fuel capacity (if I am reading the Wikipedia specs correctly) as well as better range.



WIederling wrote:
ThePointblank wrote:
I don't think an CC150 Polaris replacement is in order for years; for one, all of them are late 1980's build aircraft with comparable few flight hours and cycles on them compared to ones used by airlines. As long as Airbus can provide support to the A310 fleet, and there are spare parts readily available, they will continue to fly.


Well, bunumuring asked:
Which way do you think Canada will eventually go? New or converted A330s? New Pegasus'? Converted 767s (ex-AC even)? Hand-me-downs from the US? That will be an interesting one to watch in the future!

Following your observation they'll go with MRTT ( when that comes up in the ?far? future ) ?


Going to tackle these two together as they are related questions.

I don't think size is going to matter; the flight line at CFB Trenton is big enough to handle larger aircraft regardless as it received a $860 million upgrade a few years ago to handle the C-17's and C-130J's. There is a new maintenance hangar, new warehouse, all of the taxiways and aprons were replaced and enlarged, a new ramp to the north west was built, the refueling system was changed from fuel trucks to a brand new underground hydrant system, plus a whole host of other upgrades.

Whatever the aircraft will be, I suspect it will depend on what the next fighter for the RCAF will be. As it currently leans, the F-35 is going to continue to be the future fighter, so it will most likely have a boom. I believe the aircraft will very likely be bought used and then converted.
 
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Stitch
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Re: A330MRTT Orders, Production And Testing

Sun Nov 13, 2016 6:32 am

ThePointblank wrote:
Going to tackle these two together as they are related questions.

I don't think size is going to matter; the flight line at CFB Trenton is big enough to handle larger aircraft regardless as it received a $860 million upgrade a few years ago to handle the C-17's and C-130J's. There is a new maintenance hangar, new warehouse, all of the taxiways and aprons were replaced and enlarged, a new ramp to the north west was built, the refueling system was changed from fuel trucks to a brand new underground hydrant system, plus a whole host of other upgrades.

Whatever the aircraft will be, I suspect it will depend on what the next fighter for the RCAF will be. As it currently leans, the F-35 is going to continue to be the future fighter, so it will most likely have a boom. I believe the aircraft will very likely be bought used and then converted.


Ah, well a conversion would almost certainly favor the A330MRTT, though IAI has done 767-300ER conversions for Columbia and Brazil with good results so perhaps that might be an option, as well.
 
WIederling
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Re: A330MRTT Orders, Production And Testing

Sun Nov 13, 2016 9:38 am

Stitch wrote:
Ah, well a conversion would almost certainly favor the A330MRTT, though IAI has done 767-300ER conversions for Columbia and Brazil with good results so perhaps that might be an option, as well.


The Airbus MRTT product is more than a P2T conversion.
Murphy is an optimist
 
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Dutchy
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Re: A330MRTT Orders, Production And Testing

Sun Nov 13, 2016 10:25 am

WIederling wrote:
Stitch wrote:
Ah, well a conversion would almost certainly favor the A330MRTT, though IAI has done 767-300ER conversions for Columbia and Brazil with good results so perhaps that might be an option, as well.


The Airbus MRTT product is more than a P2T conversion.


what is the difference?
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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mafaky
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Re: A330MRTT Orders, Production And Testing

Sun Nov 13, 2016 11:15 am

Turkish Air Force (TuAF) will eventually need the replacement of its 7 KC-135R tankers, which are pretty much aged even by now.

The two "natural" candidates will be the A330MRTT or the KC-46. But the chances of the former will be higher for several reasons:

1) Turkey's better relations with the EU in these last years... (Can't tell if the new Trump registration may improve the Uncle Sam-Turco relations, which have started to become sour in the last 3-4 years; several reasons why!...),
2) The fact that Turkish Airlines operate a large fleet of A330s (They currently operate 20 A332s, of which 15 are "grounded" for this winter operations and most of these may be returned to the lessors, asap. TK actually has only 5 A332s that are still on financial leasing plus another 8/to become 9 in 2017, A332Fs. But these 5 frames are already getting older; average 10-11 years, with pretty high cycles!... Plus 30/to become 37 in 2017, A333s).
A veteran Electronics & Communications Engineer from Istanbul-Turkey, highly interested in civil and military aviation.
 
WIederling
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Re: A330MRTT Orders, Production And Testing

Sun Nov 13, 2016 11:29 am

Dutchy wrote:
WIederling wrote:
Stitch wrote:
Ah, well a conversion would almost certainly favor the A330MRTT, though IAI has done 767-300ER conversions for Columbia and Brazil with good results so perhaps that might be an option, as well.


The Airbus MRTT product is more than a P2T conversion.


what is the difference?


The MRT aspect :-)
( look into what the German A310MRT were designed to do.)
The 767 conversions are just Tt, 'T'anker ( and a bit of 't'ransport added in )
Murphy is an optimist
 
INFINITI329
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Re: A330MRTT Orders, Production And Testing

Sun Nov 13, 2016 5:40 pm

ThePointblank wrote:
Whatever the aircraft will be, I suspect it will depend on what the next fighter for the RCAF will be. As it currently leans, the F-35 is going to continue to be the future fighter, so it will most likely have a boom. I believe the aircraft will very likely be bought used and then converted.


Unless of course RCAF goes with the -C (naval variant) to maintain the hose and drogue system. But the C-17 needs a boom so that might be a moot point.
 
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Stitch
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Re: A330MRTT Orders, Production And Testing

Sun Nov 13, 2016 8:09 pm

WIederling wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
WIederling wrote:

The Airbus MRTT product is more than a P2T conversion.


what is the difference?


The MRT aspect :-)
( look into what the German A310MRT were designed to do.)
The 767 conversions are just Tt, 'T'anker ( and a bit of 't'ransport added in )


The IAI 767-300ER's have main deck cargo doors and refueling booms (something the A310MRTT does not offer) so one could argue they are just as "Multi-Role" as the Airbus products. :)
 
WIederling
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Re: A330MRTT Orders, Production And Testing

Sun Nov 13, 2016 10:55 pm

Stitch wrote:
WIederling wrote:
Dutchy wrote:

what is the difference?


The MRT aspect :-)
( look into what the German A310MRT were designed to do.)
The 767 conversions are just Tt, 'T'anker ( and a bit of 't'ransport added in )


The IAI 767-300ER's have main deck cargo doors and refueling booms (something the A310MRTT does not offer) so one could argue they are just as "Multi-Role" as the Airbus products. :)


Yeah, sure. And that is not what the MRT was about.
That is about a versatile platform for freight, pax, med evac and med transport. IMU the same modules are available for the A330.
( you need the freight door though. another STC )

The T for Tanker was added last to the MRT"T"

then the ARBS was first flown on an A310 afair.
see: http://www.deagel.com/Tanker-Aircraft/A ... 95001.aspx

Now with the A330 platform available and new production A310 unavailable ...
Murphy is an optimist
 
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Stitch
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Re: A330MRTT Orders, Production And Testing

Mon Nov 14, 2016 12:02 am

WIederling wrote:
Stitch wrote:
WIederling wrote:

The MRT aspect :-)
( look into what the German A310MRT were designed to do.)
The 767 conversions are just Tt, 'T'anker ( and a bit of 't'ransport added in )


The IAI 767-300ER's have main deck cargo doors and refueling booms (something the A310MRTT does not offer) so one could argue they are just as "Multi-Role" as the Airbus products. :)


Yeah, sure. And that is not what the MRT was about.
That is about a versatile platform for freight, pax, med evac and med transport. IMU the same modules are available for the A330.
( you need the freight door though. another STC )


And the IAI 767s have performed all those roles for the Columbian and Brazilian Air Forces, too. In fact, IAI calls them MRTTs because they have that same inherent role flexibility. *shrug*
 
ThePointblank
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Re: A330MRTT Orders, Production And Testing

Mon Nov 14, 2016 1:57 am

INFINITI329 wrote:
ThePointblank wrote:
Whatever the aircraft will be, I suspect it will depend on what the next fighter for the RCAF will be. As it currently leans, the F-35 is going to continue to be the future fighter, so it will most likely have a boom. I believe the aircraft will very likely be bought used and then converted.


Unless of course RCAF goes with the -C (naval variant) to maintain the hose and drogue system. But the C-17 needs a boom so that might be a moot point.

My understanding is that the F-35A can be fitted with the probe and still retain the boom capabilities. The forward fuselage area by the cockpit is common to the F-35A and F-35C; this is where the probe would be fitted on the F-35C, and it is left empty on a F-35A. The changes would require re-certification of the aircraft as the weight and centre of gravity will change accordingly.
 
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KarelXWB
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Re: A330MRTT Orders, Production And Testing

Thu Feb 16, 2017 2:44 pm

NATO has taken another important step forward to improve its ability to refuel aircraft in mid-air, with three Allies looking to join a European programme to acquire new refuelling aircraft. Today (16 February 2017), Defence Ministers from Belgium, Germany, and Norway signed a Declaration of Intent to join a European multinational fleet of Airbus tankers, created by the Netherlands and Luxembourg. The two countries launched this initiative in July 2016 and a first order was made for two Airbus A330 Multi Role Tanker Transport aircraft, which are due to be delivered in 2020.

...

Defence Ministers from Belgium, Germany, and Norway signed a Declaration of Intent to join a European multinational fleet of Airbus tankers, created by the Netherlands and Luxembourg.

The new agreement allows other Allies to join the programme with the provision to enlarge the fleet to up to eight aircraft.


http://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/news_141382.htm
Close, but no cigar http://vine.co/v/OjqeYWWpVWK
 
mjoelnir
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Re: A330MRTT Orders, Production And Testing

Thu Feb 16, 2017 4:52 pm

WIederling wrote:
Stitch wrote:
Ah, well a conversion would almost certainly favor the A330MRTT, though IAI has done 767-300ER conversions for Columbia and Brazil with good results so perhaps that might be an option, as well.


The Airbus MRTT product is more than a P2T conversion.


It actually gives the same standard converting from a passenger A330-200 or as a new bird. It is nearly the same process. The added work is mainly in the wings It helps that the A330 has enough tankage that there are no fuel tanks with associated plumbing added. The Royal Australian Air Force got 5 new ones and now gets 2 converted ones.
 
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JetBuddy
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Re: A330MRTT Orders, Production And Testing

Fri Feb 17, 2017 12:39 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
NATO has taken another important step forward to improve its ability to refuel aircraft in mid-air, with three Allies looking to join a European programme to acquire new refuelling aircraft. Today (16 February 2017), Defence Ministers from Belgium, Germany, and Norway signed a Declaration of Intent to join a European multinational fleet of Airbus tankers, created by the Netherlands and Luxembourg. The two countries launched this initiative in July 2016 and a first order was made for two Airbus A330 Multi Role Tanker Transport aircraft, which are due to be delivered in 2020.

...

Defence Ministers from Belgium, Germany, and Norway signed a Declaration of Intent to join a European multinational fleet of Airbus tankers, created by the Netherlands and Luxembourg.

The new agreement allows other Allies to join the programme with the provision to enlarge the fleet to up to eight aircraft.


http://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/news_141382.htm


Great news. The press release from the Norwegian Department of Defence confirms that this triggers the option for six more aircraft for a total of eight.

https://www.regjeringen.no/no/aktuelt/n ... id2539315/
(In Norwegian)
 
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Mortyman
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Re: A330MRTT Orders, Production And Testing

Sat Feb 18, 2017 1:53 pm

JetBuddy wrote:
KarelXWB wrote:
NATO has taken another important step forward to improve its ability to refuel aircraft in mid-air, with three Allies looking to join a European programme to acquire new refuelling aircraft. Today (16 February 2017), Defence Ministers from Belgium, Germany, and Norway signed a Declaration of Intent to join a European multinational fleet of Airbus tankers, created by the Netherlands and Luxembourg. The two countries launched this initiative in July 2016 and a first order was made for two Airbus A330 Multi Role Tanker Transport aircraft, which are due to be delivered in 2020.

...

Defence Ministers from Belgium, Germany, and Norway signed a Declaration of Intent to join a European multinational fleet of Airbus tankers, created by the Netherlands and Luxembourg.

The new agreement allows other Allies to join the programme with the provision to enlarge the fleet to up to eight aircraft.


http://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/news_141382.htm


Great news. The press release from the Norwegian Department of Defence confirms that this triggers the option for six more aircraft for a total of eight.

https://www.regjeringen.no/no/aktuelt/n ... id2539315/
(In Norwegian)



Great News ! and about time !
 
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zeke
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Re: A330MRTT Orders, Production And Testing

Tue Feb 21, 2017 11:12 am

Stitch wrote:
And the IAI 767s have performed all those roles for the Columbian and Brazilian Air Forces, too. In fact, IAI calls them MRTTs because they have that same inherent role flexibility. *shrug*


Boeing introduced fees in 2009 to cover airworthiness support for non Boeing conversions, there is a licencing system in place for Bedek for freighter conversions of the Boeing data, as far as I am aware that does not extend to the tanker conversions. My personal experience with IAI 707 conversions is the lack of support for the IAI conversions by the OEM resulted in limited availability and airworthiness of these third party converted tanker aircraft.
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