Ozair
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Re: Boeing Poised To Clinch $3 Billion-plus Kuwait F/A

Tue Oct 04, 2016 1:29 am

Dutchy wrote:
Nice order for the two fighter production line. Isn't the middle east hard hit by the low oil prices? Seems like a big expansion for the two nations involved.

At the moment they are proposed sales. Boeing doesn't sign the deal until the FMS has been approved.

If ordered it would be a massive change for Qatar, going from 12 mirage 2000s to 36 F-15s, especially as the aircraft will be two seaters and they also ordered 24 Rafales in 2015. Be interesting to see where these will be based and whether a large number will stay in the US for training, similar to Singapore.

I don't think Qatar have funding problems though as most of their wealth comes from gas, not oil.

As for Kuwait. I don't think the SH order will go ahead and I think the Eurofighter order will be all they acquire.

Both orders took too long to process through congress and Kuwait keeps talking about funding issues. There is every chance neither of these orders will eventuate...
 
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bikerthai
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Re: Boeing Poised To Clinch $3 Billion-plus Kuwait F/A

Tue Oct 04, 2016 1:25 pm

Dutchy wrote:
Nice order for the two fighter production line. Isn't the middle east hard hit by the low oil prices? Seems like a big expansion for the two nations involved.


Nothing motivates your military spending more than the fear of a rising opponent. With Iran coming out of the cold and heavy involvement in the Iraqi, Syrian and Yemeni conflict, along with the US reluctance to put boots on the ground, these Sunni nations want to be able to have some force projection for conflicts that do not necessarily be on their soil.

bt
Intelligent seeks knowledge. Enlightened seeks wisdom.
 
Ozair
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Re: Boeing Poised To Clinch $3 Billion-plus Kuwait F/A

Mon Jan 29, 2018 8:53 pm

Kuwait moving ahead with F-18 purchase: Report

Kuwait has informed the US that it plans to go ahead with the purchase of 40 F/A-18E/F Super Hornets, a Kuwaiti daily reported on Wednesday.
Specialised military committees will follow up on the details of the purchase of the fighter jets, and their maintenance, training and spare parts, Al Rai reported.

The daily added Kuwait had sought to purchase 40 Super Hornet Aircraft — 32 F/A-18E and eight F/A-18F, all with F414-GE-400 engines — with support, equipment, and training at an estimated cost of $10.1 billion.
In November 2016, the State Department said it had approved the sale, explaining it “will contribute to the foreign policy and national security of the United States by helping to improve the security of a major non-Nato ally that has been, and continues to be, an important force for political and economic progress in the Middle East”.
“Kuwait is a strategic partner in maintaining stability in the region. The acquisition of the F/A-18E/F Super Hornet aircraft will allow for greater interoperability with US forces, providing benefits for training and possible future coalition operations in support of shared regional security objectives,” the State Department said.
“The proposed sale of the F/A-l8E/F Super Hornet aircraft will improve Kuwait’s capability to meet current and future warfare threats. Kuwait will use the enhanced capability to strengthen its homeland defence. The F/A-18E/F Super Hornet aircraft will supplement and eventually replace the Kuwait Air Force’s ageing fighter aircraft.”
According to the State Department, Kuwait will have no difficulty absorbing this aircraft into its armed forces.

http://gulfnews.com/news/gulf/kuwait/ku ... -1.2162171

Another big expansion for a Gulf Air Force. With the Eurofighters also ordered the Kuwaiti Air Force will double its fast jet fleet.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Boeing Poised To Clinch $3 Billion-plus Kuwait F/A

Mon Jan 29, 2018 9:05 pm

How many jet fighters do these countries need?
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
Ozair
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Re: Boeing Poised To Clinch $3 Billion-plus Kuwait F/A

Mon Jan 29, 2018 9:23 pm

Dutchy wrote:
How many jet fighters do these countries need?

Who knows... Perhaps some final flings on acquisition before their primary funding line goes south.

I was certainly wrong on what I said two years ago though
Ozair wrote:

As for Kuwait. I don't think the SH order will go ahead and I think the Eurofighter order will be all they acquire.

Both orders took too long to process through congress and Kuwait keeps talking about funding issues. There is every chance neither of these orders will eventuate...

Now they will acquire both aircraft and double the fleet.
 
ExMilitaryEng
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Re: Boeing Poised To Clinch $3 Billion-plus Kuwait F/A

Mon Jan 29, 2018 9:50 pm

"The daily added Kuwait had sought to purchase 40 Super Hornet Aircraft — 32 F/A-18E and eight F/A-18F, all with F414-GE-400 engines — with support, equipment, and training at an estimated cost of $10.1 billion"

Holy cow, that comes down to about $250 millions / plane. That's what, the life cycle cost for 100 years? ;-)

That's a seriously profitable sale... It sure beats the recently lost Canadian sale...
 
Chaostheory
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Re: Boeing Poised To Clinch $3 Billion-plus Kuwait F/A

Tue Jan 30, 2018 6:53 pm

ExMilitaryEng wrote:
"The daily added Kuwait had sought to purchase 40 Super Hornet Aircraft — 32 F/A-18E and eight F/A-18F, all with F414-GE-400 engines — with support, equipment, and training at an estimated cost of $10.1 billion"

Holy cow, that comes down to about $250 millions / plane. That's what, the life cycle cost for 100 years? ;-)

That's a seriously profitable sale... It sure beats the recently lost Canadian sale...


What many don't realise is the training and support packages are comprehensive and encompass pretty much everything you could imagine from accommodation, English tutoring, tech/eng training in the US in addition to the obvious hardware stuff.

Quite a few of my colleagues have kids who have spent time on contractor campuses in the US getting their technical qualifications.
 
ExMilitaryEng
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Re: Boeing Poised To Clinch $3 Billion-plus Kuwait F/A

Wed Jan 31, 2018 5:24 pm

Chaostheory wrote:
ExMilitaryEng wrote:
Holy cow, that comes down to about $250 millions / plane. That's what, the life cycle cost for 100 years? ;-)
That's a seriously profitable sale... It sure beats the recently lost Canadian sale...

What many don't realise is the training and support packages are comprehensive and encompass pretty much everything you could imagine from accommodation, English tutoring, tech/eng training in the US in addition to the obvious hardware stuff.
Quite a few of my colleagues have kids who have spent time on contractor campuses in the US getting their technical qualifications.


I guess it could be related to the provision of 1rst & 2nd line + depot maintenance (and crew/maintainer training) in Kuwait itself, by the contractor - Boeing? (I don't have the details of what is exactly included in the $250M price tag)

FWIW, Canada appraised the F35 (not the SH) life cycle costs at about half that - if I recall.
 
Ozair
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Re: Boeing Poised To Clinch $3 Billion-plus Kuwait F/A

Mon Apr 02, 2018 9:55 pm

Looks like the Kuwait acquisition of the SH is finally going ahead.

Boeing awarded contract to deliver 28 Super Hornets to Kuwait

Boeing was awarded a contract worth up to $1.17 billion to produce and deliver 22 F/A-18E and 6 F/A-18F Super Hornets for the government of Kuwait by 2022, the US Defence Department announced on 30 March.

State Department approval of the sale of F/A-18 Super Hornets to Kuwait was first announced in November 2016, with the country requesting a total of 40 Super Hornets, including 28 fighters for initial delivery, plus the option to order 12 more. Boeing was to provide Raytheon APG-79 active electronically scanned array radars and 20mm guns for the jets, per the original sale announcement.

“The acquisition of the F/A-18E/F Super Hornet aircraft will allow for greater interoperability with U.S. forces, providing benefits for training and possible future coalition operations in support of shared regional security objectives,” the Defense Security Cooperation Agency said when the arms deal was first announced.

Orders for the fighter have increased recently, as Congress topped off the US Navy’s request list with 10 more Boeing F/A-18 Super Hornets, worth $739 million, in March. In all, the Navy is buying 24 Super Hornets for a sum of $1.8 billion in fiscal 2018. The additional orders from the US military, as well as Kuwait, have prolonged the life of Boeing’s F/A-18 production line in St. Louis, Missouri.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... ts-447237/
 
ThePointblank
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Re: Boeing Poised To Clinch $3 Billion-plus Kuwait F/A

Tue Apr 03, 2018 5:34 am

ExMilitaryEng wrote:
Chaostheory wrote:
ExMilitaryEng wrote:
Holy cow, that comes down to about $250 millions / plane. That's what, the life cycle cost for 100 years? ;-)
That's a seriously profitable sale... It sure beats the recently lost Canadian sale...

What many don't realise is the training and support packages are comprehensive and encompass pretty much everything you could imagine from accommodation, English tutoring, tech/eng training in the US in addition to the obvious hardware stuff.
Quite a few of my colleagues have kids who have spent time on contractor campuses in the US getting their technical qualifications.


I guess it could be related to the provision of 1rst & 2nd line + depot maintenance (and crew/maintainer training) in Kuwait itself, by the contractor - Boeing? (I don't have the details of what is exactly included in the $250M price tag)

FWIW, Canada appraised the F35 (not the SH) life cycle costs at about half that - if I recall.

I would imagine that the Kuwaiti deal involves extensive contractor maintenance. Not surprising; a lot of these Gulf countries are heavily dependent on contractors to maintain and operate their military gear.

In fact, I would imagine that if these countries somehow turned hostile towards the West, and all of the contractors suddenly left, all they will have are just yard ornaments. They would have no ability to maintain their gear or operate them.
 
Chaostheory
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Re: Boeing Poised To Clinch $3 Billion-plus Kuwait F/A

Tue Apr 03, 2018 5:52 am

ThePointblank wrote:
I would imagine that the Kuwaiti deal involves extensive contractor maintenance. Not surprising; a lot of these Gulf countries are heavily dependent on contractors to maintain and operate their military gear.

In fact, I would imagine that if these countries somehow turned hostile towards the West, and all of the contractors suddenly left, all they will have are just yard ornaments. They would have no ability to maintain their gear or operate them.


Where Saudi is concerned, a lot of their F-15 and Tornado maintenance is done by locals. I'm not sure if it's still the case but Saudis did have maintenance training workshops at Seymour and Sheperd afb in the US. BAE contractors are still used heavily for Typhoon support though.
 
Ozair
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Re: Boeing Poised To Clinch $3 Billion-plus Kuwait F/A

Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:00 am

Chaostheory wrote:

Where Saudi is concerned, a lot of their F-15 and Tornado maintenance is done by locals. I'm not sure if it's still the case but Saudis did have maintenance training workshops at Seymour and Sheperd afb in the US. BAE contractors are still used heavily for Typhoon support though.

I will have to find it but recently read an article that indicated Saudi Arabia and Boeing were working to get local MRO above 50% of total work.
 
Ozair
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Re: Boeing Poised To Clinch $3 Billion-plus Kuwait F/A

Tue Apr 03, 2018 10:56 pm

Ozair wrote:
Chaostheory wrote:

Where Saudi is concerned, a lot of their F-15 and Tornado maintenance is done by locals. I'm not sure if it's still the case but Saudis did have maintenance training workshops at Seymour and Sheperd afb in the US. BAE contractors are still used heavily for Typhoon support though.

I will have to find it but recently read an article that indicated Saudi Arabia and Boeing were working to get local MRO above 50% of total work.

Found it here,

In line with Saudi Arabia's Vision 2030 and following the announcement of HRH Prince Mohammed bin Salman bin Abdulaziz, Crowne Prince, Deputy Chairman of the Council of Ministers and Minster of Defense, to localize 50% of the total military spending by 2030, Saudi Arabian Military Industries (SAMI) and Boeing [NYSE: BA] today signed a Memorandum of Agreement (MoA) to develop a new joint venture (JV) aiming to localize more than 55% of the MRO services for fixed and rotary-wing military aircraft in Saudi Arabia. The agreement will also transfer technology to install weaponry on these aircraft as well as localize the supply chain for spare parts in the Kingdom.

http://www.aviationpros.com/news/124057 ... calization

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