DarkKnight5
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Wed Nov 07, 2018 1:26 pm

DarkKnight5 wrote:
zanl188 wrote:
DarkKnight5 wrote:
Why?


A. The recovery ship has a helo pad. This is not strictly needed for medical evacuation purposes.
B. Depending on the location of the recovery area, it could be days before the recovery ship can return to port.


A. The helo is there for emergencies and probably monitoring the capsule while the boat approaches.
B. The helo is awfully helpful if there is a need to get the crew to shore more quickly than the boat can manage.
C. The article says the preferred strategy is to pick the capsule up using the boat and the helo is for emergencies.

If you think about it, the capsule should float without much risk of sinking as long as it stays sealed. But when you open that door it’s like popping a bubble and all that buoyancy disappears if water gets in. It’s much safer to egress the crew on a dry deck.


Here’s another article that pretty much says it all.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/space/a24735688/spacex-go-searcher-rescue-ship-astronauts/
 
DarkKnight5
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Wed Nov 07, 2018 1:55 pm

DarkKnight5 wrote:
DarkKnight5 wrote:
zanl188 wrote:

A. The recovery ship has a helo pad. This is not strictly needed for medical evacuation purposes.
B. Depending on the location of the recovery area, it could be days before the recovery ship can return to port.


A. The helo is there for emergencies and probably monitoring the capsule while the boat approaches.
B. The helo is awfully helpful if there is a need to get the crew to shore more quickly than the boat can manage.
C. The article says the preferred strategy is to pick the capsule up using the boat and the helo is for emergencies.

If you think about it, the capsule should float without much risk of sinking as long as it stays sealed. But when you open that door it’s like popping a bubble and all that buoyancy disappears if water gets in. It’s much safer to egress the crew on a dry deck.


Here’s another article that pretty much says it all.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/space/a24735688/spacex-go-searcher-rescue-ship-astronauts/


After rereading the thread, I think I misunderstood your first post and it spiraled from there. We probably actually agree on the helo’s purpose.

Unrelated:
Story about SpaceX seeking a $750 million leveraged loan today to fund development no doubt.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-spacex-loan/spacex-seeks-750-million-leveraged-loan-idUSKCN1NB2G4
 
WIederling
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Wed Nov 07, 2018 3:07 pm

parapente wrote:
And no doubt a very thorough wash down of the capsule with fresh water (and no doubt more!).
Reusing these babies is going to be quite a breakthrough in economics.One assumes the heat shield will be replaced each time?
Why is it the Russians could always land on land? I assume the greater space available.It must make things so much easier for them.


Soyuz only returns the smallish crew seating area while the "dining room" stays in orbit.
Apollo and now Orion return the full habitat one larger than the other.

Soyuz final landing phase is retro rocket controlled. malfunction and you really get the boot.
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aviationaware
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Thu Nov 08, 2018 4:14 am

So excited for the unmanned flight test of Crew Dragon in January! Hope it stays on schedule.
 
parapente
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Thu Nov 08, 2018 8:45 am

https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-miniat ... elon-musk/

And just we thought we had a handle on what Spacex was doing you get this series of major announcements!
When they achieve so much so quickly it's easy to downplay just how huge these leaps are.Incredible team.

But in a way I am glad they are testing first with a scale BFS.Doesnt sound too Musk like but perhaps even he considers going direct to a full BFS too much of a leap.Anyway he's busy at the moment building the first stage BFR which will keep him busy.

Certainly imho the visual idea of a mini BFS on top of a F9 will look fantastic.Sounds as if they are fairly well down the line already.
 
WIederling
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Thu Nov 08, 2018 9:16 am

parapente wrote:
Certainly imho the visual idea of a mini BFS on top of a F9 will look fantastic.Sounds as if they are fairly well down the line already.


You sure the final BFR sample will not be the size of a battery driven girls friend :-?
Murphy is an optimist
 
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Tugger
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Thu Nov 08, 2018 3:46 pm

WIederling wrote:
parapente wrote:
Certainly imho the visual idea of a mini BFS on top of a F9 will look fantastic.Sounds as if they are fairly well down the line already.


You sure the final BFR sample will not be the size of a battery driven girls friend :-?

Well he's made flamethrowers so who knows what other side products he will make! :mischievous:

Tugg
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Francoflier
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Fri Nov 09, 2018 2:56 am

parapente wrote:
Sounds as if they are fairly well down the line already.


To be honest I'm not sure.
They wanted to go straight to building the thing, now they're talking extra steps, such as doing a scaled down version, as if to validate the concept. This sounds like more work and more time to me as they'll want to finalize those tests before they freeze the ever-changing design on the BFR/BFS/whatever-they-call-it-this-week, and the start of inevitable delays to the program.
Then again they've always been extremely optimistic with their timelines.

DarkKnight5 wrote:
C. The article says the preferred strategy is to pick the capsule up using the boat and the helo is for emergencies.


I believe this was the strategy for Apollo / Gemini as well. The physicians preferred that they would not make strenuous efforts right after re-entry, especially after a long stint in zero-g and wanted them to stay in the capsule until they got picked up by the ship if it was safe to do so. If they landed too far or if the capsule started taking on water, then they would of course get out of there and get a ride on the chopper. The frogmen were the first ones on the scene and ready to assist, as I suppose will be the case with Dragon / Orion.

This is interesting however as, if memory serves, the longest stint on orbit that ended in a splashdown was done by the Skylab 4 crew who spent close to 2 months up there.
ISS astronauts routinely spend much more time than this up there and they often look a bit 'worse for wear' and require a bit of assistance when they come out of the Soyuz capsules. I wonder whether they'd be able to get out of a floating capsule in a hurry if things went wrong quickly. The chopper would take a few minutes to get there at best.
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
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Tugger
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Fri Nov 09, 2018 4:59 am

Francoflier wrote:
To be honest I'm not sure.
They wanted to go straight to building the thing, now they're talking extra steps, such as doing a scaled down version, as if to validate the concept. This sounds like more work and more time to me as they'll want to finalize those tests before they freeze the ever-changing design on the BFR/BFS/whatever-they-call-it-this-week, and the start of inevitable delays to the program.

Well I'll believe that when I see that. They keep doing what they need to do and have tested scaled versions before (grasshopper). And for this development in particular, this is for human rated flight. So can't fault them testing in smaller steps.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
 
parapente
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:06 am

Musk appears to be going direct for the 'real thing' when it comes to the BFR ie first stage.We have even soon first 'carbon barrels' coming off his giant mandril.This is because he is confident with this stage and its engines.However even here he intends ( I believe) to start off with some 'hops'.
The BFS is different.No one has ever tried to do this before really.The space shuttle being the closest thing I guess.This is the veichle that needs to be able to land on Earth and indeed Mars with (many) people on board.
I think this is a very smart way of testing the concept.Particularly the all moving 'drag fins' and indeed the ablative heat shield which are the two critical new pieces of technology.
Shame it won't include the vertical landing part would have been very 'Tin Tin and he would love that! Perhaps he should paint the upper half and fins in cheque red and white!
On a more serious note.
The transfer from the super high AOA scrubbing off supersonic speed to the final engine burn 'tail down' will be quite a tricky and very fast manoeuvre I would have thought.One imagines that this will be tested too even if the veichle ends up crashing into the sea at the end ( as I guess it has to - a shame).
 
parapente
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:33 am

Addendum-sorry.
Reading the forum on Space News it seems the general and sensible view is that this mini BFS second stage will be returned 'intact ' probably by parachutes.The ( obvious) reasoning being that they can then study the physical article for wear and tear etc etc.This Seems a Sensible answer imho.
Another nice though was that if there was felt to be a need to actually land it vertically the mini BFS could be lofted up on a F H thus leaving enough second stage fuel for a vertical powered landing.Expensive test no doubt ( although everything should -in theory - be recoverable for reuse.
 
DarkKnight5
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Fri Nov 09, 2018 1:29 pm

Falcon9 now certified as a category 3 launcher by nasa.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.space.com/42387-spacex-falcon-9-rocket-nasa-certification.html

The LSP certification ladder only goes up to Category 3, which is reserved for the most dependable launchers. These rockets are expected to have a demonstrated reliability of 90 to 95 percent, according to LSP officials.

For comparison, Category 2 vehicles — the level attained by the Falcon 9 in 2015 — are expected to ace their missions 80 to 90 percent of the time.
 
parapente
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Sat Nov 10, 2018 5:42 am

But never before (other than Shuttle) have we seen rockets reused.In Spacex's case over and over into unknown technical territory.Does it keep this rating very time?
I fully understand why a brand new and ground tested one will get this rating though.Just sayin'.
 
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Thu Nov 15, 2018 8:41 pm

I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
 
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Tugger
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Thu Nov 15, 2018 9:00 pm

Another successful launch!
And a third successful landing for this F9 booster!

Congratulations yet again SpaceX!

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
 
zanl188
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:27 pm

Saw the launch from Titusville. It’s becoming routine, at my location I was the only one watching....
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Francoflier
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Fri Nov 16, 2018 2:19 am

Tugger wrote:
Another successful launch!
And a third successful landing for this F9 booster!

Congratulations yet again SpaceX!

Tugg


I believe core 1047 has only flown once before (Telstar 19V in July), which would make this its second landing.

The next mission, however, should see core 1046 (the first block 5 booster) lob the SSO-A into orbit in a few days from Vanderberg. That will be the third mission for booster 1046, and I believe they will land it as well for a third time, on 'Just Read the Instructions' this time of course.

Another space milestone from SpaceX, coming up!
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AirlineCritic
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Fri Nov 16, 2018 7:49 am

Congratulations, SpaceX! It looks so easy...
 
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Francoflier
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Sat Nov 17, 2018 3:17 pm

I re-watched the Es'Hail-2 launch video that SpaceX put on Youtube, and at the 21:00 mark exactly, on the left pane where you can see the booster falling back towards the atmosphere just prior to its re-entry burn, you can see a near miss with an unidentified object of respectable size...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhTbzc-BqKs

That has me a little baffled.It's too low and slow to be an orbiting object and too high to be a flying one, so it has to come from the Falcon itself.

My guess is that it is an object that came loose from the rocket assembly at stage separation and followed the same ballistic trajectory slightly ahead of the booster, but started slowing down faster than the heavier booster as it hit the atmosphere and got caught up by it...

Any other guesses?

Interesting shot in any case.
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JetBuddy
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Sat Nov 17, 2018 3:33 pm

Francoflier wrote:
I re-watched the Es'Hail-2 launch video that SpaceX put on Youtube, and at the 21:00 mark exactly, on the left pane where you can see the booster falling back towards the atmosphere just prior to its re-entry burn, you can see a near miss with an unidentified object of respectable size...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhTbzc-BqKs

That has me a little baffled.It's too low and slow to be an orbiting object and too high to be a flying one, so it has to come from the Falcon itself.

My guess is that it is an object that came loose from the rocket assembly at stage separation and followed the same ballistic trajectory slightly ahead of the booster, but started slowing down faster than the heavier booster as it hit the atmosphere and got caught up by it...

Any other guesses?

Interesting shot in any case.


Yep, I noticed that as well during the live coverage. I've tried watching it at 0.25x speed several times, but it's difficult to see what it is. It looks like a triangle-shaped structure, at first it looks dark against the background of the earth.. but at the last moment when it passes the camera it looks white or gray.
 
mxaxai
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Sat Nov 17, 2018 3:56 pm

Francoflier wrote:
I re-watched the Es'Hail-2 launch video that SpaceX put on Youtube, and at the 21:00 mark exactly, on the left pane where you can see the booster falling back towards the atmosphere just prior to its re-entry burn, you can see a near miss with an unidentified object of respectable size...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhTbzc-BqKs

That has me a little baffled.It's too low and slow to be an orbiting object and too high to be a flying one, so it has to come from the Falcon itself.

My guess is that it is an object that came loose from the rocket assembly at stage separation and followed the same ballistic trajectory slightly ahead of the booster, but started slowing down faster than the heavier booster as it hit the atmosphere and got caught up by it...

Any other guesses?

Interesting shot in any case.

If you look closely between 19:59 and 21:00 on the left side, you can see lots of small particles passing by the booster (or originating from it, not sure). Maybe it's ice that formed prior to launch, stayed on the rocket during the launch and started thawing in space? The booster would be nearly empty and in direct sunlight, so many parts that were previously cooled by LOx would heat up quickly.
 
DarkKnight5
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Sat Nov 17, 2018 4:11 pm

Francoflier wrote:
I re-watched the Es'Hail-2 launch video that SpaceX put on Youtube, and at the 21:00 mark exactly, on the left pane where you can see the booster falling back towards the atmosphere just prior to its re-entry burn, you can see a near miss with an unidentified object of respectable size...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhTbzc-BqKs

That has me a little baffled.It's too low and slow to be an orbiting object and too high to be a flying one, so it has to come from the Falcon itself.

My guess is that it is an object that came loose from the rocket assembly at stage separation and followed the same ballistic trajectory slightly ahead of the booster, but started slowing down faster than the heavier booster as it hit the atmosphere and got caught up by it...

Any other guesses?

Interesting shot in any case.


I noticed it too. I thought it might be a piece of ice from a thruster , or maybe a plug to cover the RCS thruster nozzle before first use, like the popcorn bags the shuttle used. I also guessed it came off the rocket, but I assumed it was intentional because of the low relative velocity to the booster. Would love to solve the question officially.
 
parapente
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Sat Nov 17, 2018 4:23 pm

https://spacenews.com/op-ed-moon-direct ... our-years/

Anybody got any views on this? I note the NASA moon orbiting base concept has just under enormous criticism both on timing and cost grounds.This appears to be a fast and cheap alternative?
 
parapente
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Sun Nov 18, 2018 9:21 am

 
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Francoflier
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Tue Nov 20, 2018 3:04 pm

Even the name is changing:

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-46274158

'Starship'? Really?
What happened to all the cool Sci-Fi inspired names?
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
DarkKnight5
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Wed Nov 21, 2018 12:53 am

Francoflier wrote:
Even the name is changing:

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-46274158

'Starship'? Really?
What happened to all the cool Sci-Fi inspired names?


Maybe Starship will be the type of vehicle but each one will have its own name, like the shuttle.

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