Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
Tugger wrote:Of course it is off the topic but I wonder if the ULA will try to land a booster sometime. Their systems were never designed with that in mind so I doubt they can do it with their current launch vehicles.
JetBuddy wrote:Their New Glenn rocket is scheduled to test launch before 2020. The New Shepard rocket has already done it many times, so they know the technology very well.
We're going to spend the 4th doing a full review of rocket & pad systems. Launch no earlier than 5th/6th. Only one chance to get it right …
the two-stage, 229-foot-tall (70-meter) launcher lit nine Merlin 1D main engines and rocketed away from pad 39A at the Florida spaceport at 7:38 p.m. EDT (2338 GMT) Wednesday.
The slender white booster pivoted 1.7 million pounds of thrust from its main engines to steer eastward from the Space Coast, powering through the speed of sound as the kerosene-fueled first stage climbed above the stratosphere.
The nine-engine first stage shut down less than three minutes after liftoff, and the booster dropped away with the help of pneumatic pushers for a destructive plunge into the Atlantic Ocean.
SpaceX no longer plans to have the next version of its Dragon spacecraft be capable of powered landings, a move that has implications for the company’s long-term Mars plans.
SpaceX Chief Executive Elon Musk, speaking at the International Space Station Research and Development Conference here July 19, confirmed recent rumors that the version of the Dragon spacecraft under development for NASA’s commercial crew program will not have the ability to land on land using SuperDraco thrusters that will be incorporated into the spacecraft primarily as a launch abort system.
But he clearly doesn't want it to be too big; no one can ever accuse Musk of not having a vision, but it also needs to be feasible and achievable if he ever actually wants to get SpaceX to Mars. That's where this tweet comes in. The original SpaceX plan involved a massive rocket with 42 engines, with a 12-meter diameter, that would ferry ships of a 100 people or more to the red planet. Musk is now hinting that the rocket he is planning to use will have a 9-meter diameter. According to Ars Technica, this could leave the rocket with half the engines (21) and, therefore, half the mass.
Francoflier wrote:"hey let's just strap 3 Falcon 9s together and make a big rocket" to "Oh... this is not going to be that simple".
Moreover, the tripling of the engines from nine to 27 creates a tripling of the vibrations and acoustics at play throughout the vehicle.
All of these elements, according to Mr. Musk, required a complete redesign of the central-core’s airframe.
“The amount of load you’re putting through that center core is crazy because you have two super powerful boosters also shoving that center core,” stated Mr. Musk.
“So [we broke] the qualification levels on so much of the hardware [that] we had to redesign the whole center-core airframe on the Falcon 9 because it’s going to take so much load.
“And then you’ve got the separation systems… and, yeah, it just ended up being way, way more difficult than we originally thought.”
The part I love most is his pessimism about the first launch.
SeJoWa wrote:There's something I've asked myself ever since hearing Elon Musk's first comment on the design principle behind FHeavy - why not transmit the individual Falcons' lift to the payload by way of a truss at the top of the nosecones ?
SeJoWa wrote:Going ahead with the launch of the first Falcon Heavy on the assumption that anything that doesn't result in the launch complex itself being damaged will result in useful lessons learned is just one of those things that presently can only happen at SpaceX. The engineers tasked with making it all happen successfully - sooner rather than later - certainly work in a very unique environment.
moo wrote:SeJoWa wrote:Going ahead with the launch of the first Falcon Heavy on the assumption that anything that doesn't result in the launch complex itself being damaged will result in useful lessons learned is just one of those things that presently can only happen at SpaceX. The engineers tasked with making it all happen successfully - sooner rather than later - certainly work in a very unique environment.
(Answering separately because ... reasons)
Not even SpaceX can afford to throw away a $200million vehicle on a test which doesn't have a high chance of success - this is Musk doing PR bluster and trying to downplay the Falcon Heavy program, so don't expect it to launch this year.
They won't launch the FH until they have a high confidence of success.
mxaxai wrote:moo wrote:SeJoWa wrote:Going ahead with the launch of the first Falcon Heavy on the assumption that anything that doesn't result in the launch complex itself being damaged will result in useful lessons learned is just one of those things that presently can only happen at SpaceX. The engineers tasked with making it all happen successfully - sooner rather than later - certainly work in a very unique environment.
(Answering separately because ... reasons)
Not even SpaceX can afford to throw away a $200million vehicle on a test which doesn't have a high chance of success - this is Musk doing PR bluster and trying to downplay the Falcon Heavy program, so don't expect it to launch this year.
They won't launch the FH until they have a high confidence of success.
But they won't (well, they shouldn't) launch a payload with their first try. Of course they want success but some things will only become known during a real launch. And if you launch a "test" vehicle, it doesn't matter whether it blows up after ten seconds or burns up on reentry.
moo wrote:Payload or not, they won't launch until they have a high confidence of success.
Oroka wrote:moo wrote:Payload or not, they won't launch until they have a high confidence of success.
Welp, Nov 2017. Keeping ambitions, or at least expectations low for this launch, first launch might not even reach orbit, but they are probably talking about the second stage as the scrubbed the attempted landing of that stage for this flight. So, confident enough to launch, but not being too ambitious in one flight...
https://www.engadget.com/2017/07/28/spacex-falcon-heavy-maiden-flight-november/
moo wrote:- discount everything Musk says on this, that bird won't fly unless the engineers are significantly confident that the payload will make orbit, there is simply too much that needs to be validated for it not to be.
Tugger wrote:moo wrote:- discount everything Musk says on this, that bird won't fly unless the engineers are significantly confident that the payload will make orbit, there is simply too much that needs to be validated for it not to be.
I think the key point is that even after all the validation checks, all the engineering discussion and evaluations, after all the simulations.... no one will actually KNOW until the big red button is pressed (or in today's world, the link is clicked on the screen).
parapente wrote:How does the dragon capsule bring people back to earth (from space station) now that it cannot use its thrusters and has no legs? Parachute?
parapente wrote:and now Spacex has absolutely no way of landing on Mars manned or unmanned.And neither do NASA.Is it not time for closer collaboration?
parapente wrote:Thx and I had a read myself.Parachutes it is.But what a mess.NASA appear to have 3 re-entry vehicles under development (overkill?) and now Spacex has absolutely no way of landing on Mars manned or unmanned.And neither do NASA.Is it not time for closer collaboration?
Tugger wrote:Next Falcon launch, the Dragon Resupply Mission CRS-12, is scheduled for today.
Launch window starts Monday, August 14 at 12:31 p.m. EDT, or 16:31 UTC from Launch Complex 39A (LC-39A) at Kennedy Space Center.
The Falcon booster will return and be recovered.
This is the twelfth Commercial Resupply Services mission (CRS-12) and is the last of the original first SpaceX launch contract with NASA (the contract was extended and now stands at a total of 20). Apparently this mission is also known as the CREAM mission for the experiments being carried which make up a lot of the payload (in addition to the ISS supplies).
Livestream video link (goes live an hour before launch):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLxWsYx8dbo
Tugg