ZaphodHarkonnen
Posts: 536
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Tue Apr 03, 2018 8:51 am

JetBuddy wrote:
No fancy pants landing on this one either?

Are they expending the last of the Block 3 boosters that won't be upgraded? And if so, why are they launching them with landing legs and gridfins (expensive), only to do a simulated re-entry procedure? Why not land them?


In the stream it was said they were experimenting with a new landing procedure. I expect the risk was high enough to make it not worth attempting a recovery of the booster. The booster was also one of the older blocks and I believe the aim right now is to standardise on the Block 5 booster. So any earlier ones will be scrapped after reuse or used for these sorts of experiments.
 
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JetBuddy
Posts: 1882
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Tue Apr 03, 2018 11:34 am

ZaphodHarkonnen wrote:
JetBuddy wrote:
No fancy pants landing on this one either?

Are they expending the last of the Block 3 boosters that won't be upgraded? And if so, why are they launching them with landing legs and gridfins (expensive), only to do a simulated re-entry procedure? Why not land them?


In the stream it was said they were experimenting with a new landing procedure. I expect the risk was high enough to make it not worth attempting a recovery of the booster. The booster was also one of the older blocks and I believe the aim right now is to standardise on the Block 5 booster. So any earlier ones will be scrapped after reuse or used for these sorts of experiments.


Thanks for the response! I missed out of the stream up until T - 1 minute.
 
parapente
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Tue Apr 03, 2018 12:54 pm

The new 'short,sharp' 3 engine landing manoeuvre is clearly (obviously) a very tricky one with high and late levels of deceleration.The big upside is it uses materially less precious fuel.Thus (once again) improving overall performance of the rocket,particularly in recoverable configuration.This obviously becomes key when (now) using Block5 config that is designed for up to 10 flights.
To test out clearly you need a 'proper' test which means using grid fins and landing legs.
The fact that they have released a photo of the rocket floating gently in the sea (to be towed back if poss) suggests (but not deff') that it worked ok.No point in landing it on the barge as it might destroy it if it had not worked-it was never going to be used again anyrate.
They won't use this technique on a previous bock 5 until they are confident (they may now be having done it twice).

Was also interesting to note that they brought back a second half faring even though they did not land it in 'the net'.(twisted lines).However the landing had to be soft for it to stay in one piece.

In general I find it astounding how they continue to improve the F9 ( both performance and cost) particularly at such a rate.The commercial window for the FH must be narrowing all the time.

The next (and last?) improvement will be the new more powerful second stage motor that is being developed with additional finance from the military.Again the capability of the F9 will simply go up once again.However I don't believe this is scheduled any time soon.
 
Trololzilla
Posts: 61
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Tue Apr 03, 2018 12:57 pm

JetBuddy wrote:
No fancy pants landing on this one either?

Are they expending the last of the Block 3 boosters that won't be upgraded? And if so, why are they launching them with landing legs and gridfins (expensive), only to do a simulated re-entry procedure? Why not land them?

As far as I know, there are no more Block 3 boosters remaining (at least none that will be flown on missions); the last B3 flight was with Paz. The booster used on yesterday's launch was actually the very first B4 booster, first used for CRS-12. According to some of the news sites, SpaceX is in the process of clearing out B4 boosters and will be switching entirely to B5 by mid-2018, when their stock of B4 boosters is spent. If that's the case and they won't be getting reused anyway, you might as well use them for testing purposes ahead of the B5 rollout.
 
ZaphodHarkonnen
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Tue Apr 03, 2018 2:20 pm

Trololzilla wrote:
JetBuddy wrote:
No fancy pants landing on this one either?

Are they expending the last of the Block 3 boosters that won't be upgraded? And if so, why are they launching them with landing legs and gridfins (expensive), only to do a simulated re-entry procedure? Why not land them?

As far as I know, there are no more Block 3 boosters remaining (at least none that will be flown on missions); the last B3 flight was with Paz. The booster used on yesterday's launch was actually the very first B4 booster, first used for CRS-12. According to some of the news sites, SpaceX is in the process of clearing out B4 boosters and will be switching entirely to B5 by mid-2018, when their stock of B4 boosters is spent. If that's the case and they won't be getting reused anyway, you might as well use them for testing purposes ahead of the B5 rollout.


The ArsTechnica article states SpaceX says the Block 3 and 4 boosters would only be safe for one reuse. https://arstechnica.com/science/2018/04 ... -in-a-row/

So yeah, clear out the backlog of recovered boosters taht can only be used another one or two times and use them to gather real world data on the three engine landing burn. While preparing for the full production reuse booster.
 
salttee
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Tue Apr 10, 2018 3:54 am

Northrop Grumman Blamed for Loss of Mysterious Zuma Spy Satellite

The blame is placed on the payload adapter which was made by Northrop Grumman. They say the release was delayed so the Zuma was dragged back down by the second stage. Of course if it was really the launch of a stealth satellite, they would say this. :boggled:

https://gizmodo.com/northrop-grumman-bl ... 1825115280
 
parapente
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:28 am

A few new bits and pieces on Teslarti website.The manufacturing equipment for the BFR is now rolling in.They must have ordered it ages ago.My God its big stuff.I appreciate that is obvious but still awesome.The pace this guy moves at is incredible.
Look forward to the Block5 launch soon.Will be key to future plans.
 
parapente
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:13 am

Boeing CEO one again talking big for a space race.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ ... -Mars.html

He is not a stupid man clearly.Yet again he has stated that the first person on Mars will be on a Boeing rocket and also restates that he expects it to be within 10 years - which is the very ambitious Spacex time line.

I understand that Boeing is the prime contractor on the SLS so Yup he could call that a Boeing rocket.

And yes it's got a mighty throw weight.Far bigger than anything flying.And it will fly soon.
And yes a few of them would have the power to get enough 'stuff' to Mars and back.
But there is nothing.I can't believe he is remotely talking about his little space capsule that is designed to go to the ISS and that's it.
Even the Lockheed deep space capsule can't do that much - at best one small part of a Mars system.

One must come to the conclusion that either he is stupid -or- he knows something we don't.Certainly the US government has only got eyes for the Moon.And the orbiting moon station is in fact entirely unnecessary for a Mars programme.So what is he going on about?Odd.
 
ThePointblank
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:28 am

Elon Musk announced on Twitter that they will be attempting to recover the second stage of the Falcon 9 rocket... and they will be doing so with a giant, inflatable balloon:

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/985655249745592320


Elon Musk
‏Verified account @elonmusk

This is gonna sound crazy, but …
4:01 PM - 15 Apr 2018


Elon Musk
‏Verified account @elonmusk

SpaceX will try to bring rocket upper stage back from orbital velocity using a giant party balloon
4:04 PM - 15 Apr 2018

He notes on Twitter that using a balloon is "great for creating a giant object that retains its shape across all Mach regimes & drops ballistic coefficient by 2 orders of magnitude."

He also says he will try to land the second stage on a giant bouncy castle... not sure if he was joking or was being serious...
 
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flyingturtle
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:10 am

ThePointblank wrote:
Elon Musk announced on Twitter that they will be attempting to recover the second stage of the Falcon 9 rocket... and they will be doing so with a giant, inflatable balloon:


Wooo! :biggrin:

And you can always help SpaceX by running some simulations.



David
Keeping calm is terrorism against those who want to live in fear.
 
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flyingturtle
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:41 pm

It has been delayed to Wednesday evening. :frown:

David
Keeping calm is terrorism against those who want to live in fear.
 
Trololzilla
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Thu Apr 19, 2018 3:51 am

Surprised no one's posted yet, but today's launch of TESS went off without a hitch. TESS was inserted into the correct orbit, and the B4 booster made a successful landing on OCISLY.
 
parapente
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:29 am

Yup another flawless launch.Waiting to hear if anything else was brought back!
 
zanl188
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Thu Apr 19, 2018 3:11 pm

I noticed a lot of grid fin motion as the first stage approached the ASDS. I’m guessing crosswinds - any official explanation?
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DarkKnight5
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Thu Apr 19, 2018 8:47 pm

I noticed a lot of grid fin motion as the first stage approached the ASDS. I’m guessing crosswinds - any official explanation?

The grid fins become less effective as the booster approaches the ground because of the slower speed through the air. Therefore they have more exaggerated motion as they get closer to the ground. I didn’t notice any movement out the ordinary.

The other possible explanation is that this booster had the smaller aluminum grid fins, so more motion is necessary to achieve the same force.
 
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JetBuddy
Posts: 1882
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:51 pm

DarkKnight5 wrote:
I noticed a lot of grid fin motion as the first stage approached the ASDS. I’m guessing crosswinds - any official explanation?

The grid fins become less effective as the booster approaches the ground because of the slower speed through the air. Therefore they have more exaggerated motion as they get closer to the ground. I didn’t notice any movement out the ordinary.

The other possible explanation is that this booster had the smaller aluminum grid fins, so more motion is necessary to achieve the same force.


I've read somewhere that the booster makes some serious corrections at the very last part of the flight, so that if something goes wrong prior to that, it won't hit the landing pad / ship. Don't know if that's true?
 
jupiter2
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:04 pm

Trololzilla wrote:
Surprised no one's posted yet, but today's launch of TESS went off without a hitch. TESS was inserted into the correct orbit, and the B4 booster made a successful landing on OCISLY.


Without a hitch ? HA !

I was out there on Monday to watch the launch and just as we were to board the bus they scrubbed the launch. Now if you're a local, no big deal, but when you've travelled from Sydney and you can't exactly change plans at a moments notice, it's a pain in the ass. Still it launched safely at that's the main thing, as we caught a fleeting glimpse on a freeway in Orlando.
 
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Tugger
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Fri Apr 20, 2018 12:13 am

Always fun to watch (and rewatch)!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mmyzj-HfPSU

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
 
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Francoflier
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Fri Apr 20, 2018 5:20 am

Why do they still bother broadcasting the live feed from the barge since the signal ALWAYS drops due to vibrations right when the booster lands?

By the way, does SpaceX publish the barge landings footage anywhere after they recover them? It would be nice to see it for real as opposed to that useless feed that drops off all the time.

At least they seem to have sorted that ridiculous NOAA space footage legal issue...
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
Trololzilla
Posts: 61
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2016 11:53 pm

Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Fri Apr 20, 2018 6:54 am

jupiter2 wrote:
Without a hitch ? HA !

I was out there on Monday to watch the launch and just as we were to board the bus they scrubbed the launch. Now if you're a local, no big deal, but when you've travelled from Sydney and you can't exactly change plans at a moments notice, it's a pain in the ass. Still it launched safely at that's the main thing, as we caught a fleeting glimpse on a freeway in Orlando.

Hence why I specified that it was *Wednesday's* TESS launch attempt that went off without a hitch.

Francoflier wrote:
Why do they still bother broadcasting the live feed from the barge since the signal ALWAYS drops due to vibrations right when the booster lands?

That view has worked in the past. No reason to see why it wouldn't again. At least this time we had more or less continuous footage from the booster.
 
parapente
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Fri Apr 20, 2018 7:34 am

No word on retrieving the 2 fairings,one assumes they tried.Shame if it didn't work.
I guess they intend to use this block4 booster one more time?
 
DarkKnight5
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Fri Apr 20, 2018 12:51 pm

http://youtu.be/rhHP6-GGeuI

Scott Manley explains the very interesting orbit of TESS.
 
parapente
Posts: 2430
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Sat Apr 21, 2018 1:09 pm

Vehicles used
Type Name Location First stage Falcon 9 v1.2 - Block 4 (Full Thrust) - B1045 CCAFS SLC-40 Second stage Falcon 9 v1.2 (Full Thrust) CCAFS SLC-40 ASDS Of Course I Still Love You (OCISLY) Atlantic Ocean Tug boat HAWK Atlantic Ocean Support ship Go Pursuit (fairing recovery) Atlantic Ocean Support ship Go Quest (booster recovery) Atlantic Ocean Support ship Go Searcher (unknown assignment)

These are the beichles used for the last launch.There is clearly a ship put out to recover the fairing and indeed another (mission unknown) which might be for the second stage?
But no news on either unless someone has heard?

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