Question -just for fun!
Say the cost of 'going into space' was $200,000 for either the Blue Origin or Virgin Galactic.Say they both go to roughly the same altitude and give a similar ( let's say 5-10 mins) weightless in space.
One goes up via a conventional ground launch and classic parachute landing.
The other in a spaceplane that is carried up half was and lands as an aircraft.
Which one would be your choice ( you only have one).
Personally I am quite torn.I think on balance I would go for classic rocket and 'Shute route.Particularly as it has nice big windows for the all important view.But that's just me.i guess the Bezos route has no crew? That might frighten some though ?
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Re: Blue Origin - Tests, Launches, Developments
And, for comparison, consider a list price to orbit on Falcon 9 with Dragon 2 at $20,000,000 per person.
Again, for comparison, consider a reusable F9 launch @ $62,000,000 and 22 tons payload. Dragon 2 weighs some 6-7 tons, so if it wasn't limited by its own structures or volume, you could theoretically launch 15 tons payload - or 150 people - to LEO; in other words: $400,000 per person.
Regarding the OP's question: The spaceplane sounds like more fun.
Again, for comparison, consider a reusable F9 launch @ $62,000,000 and 22 tons payload. Dragon 2 weighs some 6-7 tons, so if it wasn't limited by its own structures or volume, you could theoretically launch 15 tons payload - or 150 people - to LEO; in other words: $400,000 per person.
Regarding the OP's question: The spaceplane sounds like more fun.
Re: Blue Origin - Tests, Launches, Developments
New Shepard flew again this morning. Terrific landing shots in this video.
I didn't hear what the test objective was for todays flight.
https://youtu.be/YUzYCDbDlnc
I didn't hear what the test objective was for todays flight.
https://youtu.be/YUzYCDbDlnc
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- DarkKnight5
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Re: Blue Origin - Tests, Launches, Developments
zanl188 wrote:New Shepard flew again this morning. Terrific landing shots in this video.
I didn't hear what the test objective was for todays flight.
https://youtu.be/YUzYCDbDlnc
Still proving the vehicle for human flight, and they had NASA microgravity science payloads on board as well.
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- casinterest
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Re: Blue Origin - Tests, Launches, Developments
Blue origin had an unplanned test of it's capsule escape system today.
https://youtu.be/SqAVWvOT-1c?t=4831
Link from launch
1 minute in around max -q, New Shepherd had an anomaly and the capsule emergency escape was activated.
https://youtu.be/SqAVWvOT-1c?t=4831
Link from launch
1 minute in around max -q, New Shepherd had an anomaly and the capsule emergency escape was activated.
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- Francoflier
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Re: Blue Origin - Tests, Launches, Developments
Scott Manley's early take:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoRp7nRIOpo
He rightly raises the question of whether this will have a bit of a cooling effect on their upcoming customers...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoRp7nRIOpo
He rightly raises the question of whether this will have a bit of a cooling effect on their upcoming customers...
Re: Blue Origin - Tests, Launches, Developments
Wow! Looks like safety systems worked as required and got the capsule properly away. This was the booster's ninth flight, and Booster 3 is no more. Now the problem and failure needs to be assessed and identified. Hopefully it won't sideline the program for too long.
It is important to note that all flights carrying humans have been carried out using Booster 4 and not this one. Booster 4 will have a lot of technicians crawling over it after the team is doing looking through the debris and data of 3.
Tugg
It is important to note that all flights carrying humans have been carried out using Booster 4 and not this one. Booster 4 will have a lot of technicians crawling over it after the team is doing looking through the debris and data of 3.
Tugg
Re: Blue Origin - Tests, Launches, Developments
A good reminder of the difficulty and risk involved in space flight. The abort system performance was impressive.
Re: Blue Origin - Tests, Launches, Developments
Francoflier wrote:Scott Manley's early take:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoRp7nRIOpo
He rightly raises the question of whether this will have a bit of a cooling effect on their upcoming customers...
That's both the suborbital tourist providers grounded then, given we haven't heard anything from Branson's one in over a year.
Re: Blue Origin - Tests, Launches, Developments
With no humanoids aboard you can find a bit humor in her comments "we're headed to space.." and then dead silence for a full minute as the altitude and speed rapidly unwind. Someone faster on their toes would've pivoted immediately to this being a test of the escape system and declared mission success.
Re: Blue Origin - Tests, Launches, Developments
Nah, they handled it truthfully and correctly. I'm sure she was asking for information on what happened so she could explain accurately, which she did.
Even had there been humans aboard, they would have been safe and protected by the abort system. It worked as advertised.
Even had there been humans aboard, they would have been safe and protected by the abort system. It worked as advertised.
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- Francoflier
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Re: Blue Origin - Tests, Launches, Developments
Avatar2go wrote:Nah, they handled it truthfully and correctly. I'm sure she was asking for information on what happened so she could explain accurately, which she did.
Even had there been humans aboard, they would have been safe and protected by the abort system. It worked as advertised.
The would have been safe, but how safe?
I just wonder how many G's the escape maneuver would pull. It seems pretty violent.
Given that the average passenger would not have anywhere near the physical condition and training of an astronaut or fighter pilot and much less tolerance to high accelerations, I wonder how they would fare in this type of scenario.
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- flyingturtle
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Re: Blue Origin - Tests, Launches, Developments
wingman wrote:With no humanoids aboard you can find a bit humor in her comments "we're headed to space.." and then dead silence for a full minute as the altitude and speed rapidly unwind. Someone faster on their toes would've pivoted immediately to this being a test of the escape system and declared mission success.
During the first launch with primates on board, I noticed how the Blue Origin speaker sounded less competent than any of the SpaceX speakers. I'm not exaggerating much: "As you see, this is a rocket, a vehicle that goes up..."
The best speakers don't come from the PR department... they are invariably named John Insprucker.
Re: Blue Origin - Tests, Launches, Developments
Francoflier wrote:I just wonder how many G's the escape maneuver would pull. It seems pretty violent.
My guess it may have less impact than a head-on car collision considering a car collision, the body is thrown forward in to the seat belt (although we now have air bags). This acceleration pushes the passenger into the seat.
The FAA designate 9G for commercial airplane "survivable" crash design. Don't think that escape pod acceleration approaches 9G.
Someone would have to look it up, but as I recall 3g is the max flight maneuver load for a commercial aircraft (hard landing?). So my guess that is the goal post aim.
bt
Re: Blue Origin - Tests, Launches, Developments
Francoflier wrote:
The would have been safe, but how safe?
I just wonder how many G's the escape maneuver would pull. It seems pretty violent.
Given that the average passenger would not have anywhere near the physical condition and training of an astronaut or fighter pilot and much less tolerance to high accelerations, I wonder how they would fare in this type of scenario.
I think pretty safe. They are in a reclined position and their couches are designed for the g-loads of the abort system. The passenger requirements are 3 g's on ascent (non-abort) and 5.5 g's on descent (momentarily values).
The capsule weighs 8k pounds dry and the abort motor has 70k pounds of thrust, for 2 seconds. That's about 8 g's. Again momentary, and rising from 3 g's, so 5 g's differential. Probably the most extreme part would be the abort cutout, transitioning back to zero g's.
The FAA has approved the system for commercial flight. So I'm sure they've looked at this pretty closely.
Even Eric Berger, who normally has not much good to say about Blue Origin, said he wouldn't hesitate to fly, after watching the abort system function flawlessly.
Re: Blue Origin - Tests, Launches, Developments
Blue has released some images of components for their New Glenn GS-1 (first stage) and GS-2 (second stage) demonstrators. These are not flight articles, but are meant to check component fit, as well as ground, and tower handling.
The second stage is very large, similar to Starship. There is an image of a partial crew capsule as well as of the launch tower. Good to see them making progress.
Have to scroll through the images as they are intermixed with New Shepard missions. They are organized by release date rather than program.
https://www.blueorigin.com/news/gallery/
The second stage is very large, similar to Starship. There is an image of a partial crew capsule as well as of the launch tower. Good to see them making progress.
Have to scroll through the images as they are intermixed with New Shepard missions. They are organized by release date rather than program.
https://www.blueorigin.com/news/gallery/
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- Francoflier
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Re: Blue Origin - Tests, Launches, Developments
Blue Origin makes the SLS development pace seem breakneck...
Gradatim is an understatement.
But at least there is progress.
Gradatim is an understatement.
But at least there is progress.
Re: Blue Origin - Tests, Launches, Developments
Francoflier wrote:Blue Origin makes the SLS development pace seem breakneck...
Gradatim is an understatement.
But at least there is progress.
Yes, they definitely take their sweet time. What stood out to me is that they are apparently developing basically the whole thing at once, all components at the same rate. Which may be why it seems slow, division of labor.
Also maybe why ULA concerns about BE-4 didn't seem that pressing to Blue at first. It was progressing at a similar rate to everything else, but ULA is operating on a different schedule.
From the people I talk to at Blue, they are very busy, but very quiet. These images at first were thought to be a mistaken release, people were not reposting them due to NDA's. But they stayed up so must be permissible. There have been other images of the huge test fairings, that are not on the public site.
Re: Blue Origin - Tests, Launches, Developments
Blue Origin has released the results of the investigation into the NS-23 failure.
They had tweaked the nozzle film cooling design for that BE-3 engine, resulting in a hot-streak plume forming on the nozzle inside surface. The high temperatures resulted in structural fatigue, and eventual failure of the nozzle material in that spot.
The vehicle detected the thrust asymmetry resulting firm the nozzle leakage, and triggered the capsule escape sequence. That sequence was nominal and worked as expected.
Moving forward, they have redesigned the film cooling system, as well as portions of the combustion chamber, to keep the hottest part of the flow away from the nozzle walls. And also structurally improved the nozzle for better resistance to hot streaks.
Flights will resume in the near future, once all the new features are thoroughly tested.
https://www.blueorigin.com/news/ns-23-findings/
They had tweaked the nozzle film cooling design for that BE-3 engine, resulting in a hot-streak plume forming on the nozzle inside surface. The high temperatures resulted in structural fatigue, and eventual failure of the nozzle material in that spot.
The vehicle detected the thrust asymmetry resulting firm the nozzle leakage, and triggered the capsule escape sequence. That sequence was nominal and worked as expected.
Moving forward, they have redesigned the film cooling system, as well as portions of the combustion chamber, to keep the hottest part of the flow away from the nozzle walls. And also structurally improved the nozzle for better resistance to hot streaks.
Flights will resume in the near future, once all the new features are thoroughly tested.
https://www.blueorigin.com/news/ns-23-findings/
Re: Blue Origin - Tests, Launches, Developments
Blue has released an uncharacteristic series of Tweets revealing progress on their Blue Moon cargo lander. Seems that the various components are coming along.
https://twitter.com/blueorigin/status/1 ... 20228?s=20
https://twitter.com/blueorigin/status/1 ... 20228?s=20
Re: Blue Origin - Tests, Launches, Developments
On June 30th, Blue Origin suffered a test stand failure of the BE-4 Flight Engine #3, destined for the second ULA Vulcan launch vehicle (Cert-2). The detonation occurred 10 seconds into acceptance testing.
Blue has two test stands and is producing engines at a sufficient rate to replace the loss. They already have a proximate cause but will conduct a full investigation as to root cause. It's not expected to interfere with the first Vulcan launch.
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/07/11/jeff-be ... sting.html
Blue has two test stands and is producing engines at a sufficient rate to replace the loss. They already have a proximate cause but will conduct a full investigation as to root cause. It's not expected to interfere with the first Vulcan launch.
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/07/11/jeff-be ... sting.html
Re: Blue Origin - Tests, Launches, Developments
Tory Bruno confirms that the detonated engine had already failed acceptance testing once before, and had been reworked. Not expected to affect Vulcan activities.
https://twitter.com/torybruno/status/16 ... 83234?s=20
https://twitter.com/torybruno/status/16 ... 83234?s=20
Re: Blue Origin - Tests, Launches, Developments
Note: moderators can delete this post, I've copied it into the Lunar Landers thread. Apologies.
Some new details on the Blue Moon Mk2 lunar lander. There will be three components, all launched independently on New Glenn vehicles. The lander provided by Blue Origin, and a tanker with space transport tug, provided by Lockheed. All will be reusable. So that's a minimum of 3 launches, before propellant.
https://twitter.com/free_space/status/1 ... HN55mT6bCQ
Some new details on the Blue Moon Mk2 lunar lander. There will be three components, all launched independently on New Glenn vehicles. The lander provided by Blue Origin, and a tanker with space transport tug, provided by Lockheed. All will be reusable. So that's a minimum of 3 launches, before propellant.
https://twitter.com/free_space/status/1 ... HN55mT6bCQ
Re: Blue Origin - Tests, Launches, Developments
Here is a look inside the new Blue Origin Rocket Engine Factory in Huntsville, where engines are under construction for Vulcan and New Glenn. Final assembly of a Vulcan Cert-2 mission BE-4 engine is shown. Blue is now producing multiple engines in their production line.
Also testing of the New Glenn second stage BE-3U and first stage BE-4 engines has commenced at the Huntsville 4670 test stand.
https://twitter.com/torybruno/status/16 ... 9cMxQ&s=19
Also testing of the New Glenn second stage BE-3U and first stage BE-4 engines has commenced at the Huntsville 4670 test stand.
https://twitter.com/torybruno/status/16 ... 9cMxQ&s=19
Re: Blue Origin - Tests, Launches, Developments
NASA Administrator Nelson got a tour of the New Glenn production facilities at Blue Origin.
This program seems to be moving along, even though there is very little public information regarding it.
https://twitter.com/senbillnelson/statu ... 7258209282
This program seems to be moving along, even though there is very little public information regarding it.
https://twitter.com/senbillnelson/statu ... 7258209282
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