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Grizzly410
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Re: A400M Update

Tue Mar 28, 2017 6:12 pm

A French politic released a report on the French strategic airlift and a claim he made took my attention.

Il convient de mettre un terme définitif à l’illusion abondamment diffusée de « l’A400M, avion stratégique ».
Par sa capacité d’emport maximale (deux containers TC20 contre 11 pour l’Antonov 124), l’A400M avion ne peut être une solution pour le transport stratégique de fret. Il ne rivalisera jamais avec les gros porteurs, An-124 ou C5. Un Antonov 124 équivaut à 5 A400M


Rough translation, by me.
A400M is not a strategic airlifter and we need to stop consider it this way.
It can load 2 TC20 containers when an AN124 loads 11. It can't be a strategic airlifter. It will never compete against AN124 or C5. 1 AN124 lifts the same as 5 A400M.

http://www.francois.cornut-gentille.fr/ ... egique.pdf

I'm not sure why he see the needs to evaluate the airlift with TC20 containers. Is this a standard in military transport?
And this shouldn't come as a surprise that A400M is not in the same weight category than AN124 or C5, but claiming 1:5 when max payload come close to 1:3 seems exaggerated. Maybe range consideration change a lot the result and I'm not sure if the guy tries to manipulate numbers and discard A400M directly to suit his agenda (france too much dependent of the rusian/ukranian strategic airlift).

Any thoughts?
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Slug71
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Re: A400M Update

Thu May 18, 2017 6:21 pm

Any updates or news on this bad boy?
 
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Grizzly410
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Re: A400M Update

Thu Jun 01, 2017 2:48 pm

German AirForce received its 9th copy yesterday, MSN49 : 54+10
It's the 6th delivery of 2017.

Nothing more to report right now...
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Revelation
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Re: A400M Update

Thu Jun 01, 2017 4:22 pm

Grizzly410 wrote:
German AirForce received its 9th copy yesterday, MSN49 : 54+10
It's the 6th delivery of 2017.

Nothing more to report right now...


Regardless, thanks for the update, Grizzly410!
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aviationaware
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Re: A400M Update

Sat Jun 03, 2017 5:00 pm

Grizzly410 wrote:
German AirForce received its 9th copy yesterday, MSN49 : 54+10
It's the 6th delivery of 2017.

Nothing more to report right now...


This won't speed up any time soon either as long as the German Air Force keeps refusing to take planes with tiny scratches on the painting of control panels. Makes you wonder if those people have ever seen how a military plane looks after its first mission. By the way, this same mentality causes the Berlin airport to be pushed back year after year. It's just ludicrous.
 
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Grizzly410
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Re: A400M Update

Wed Jun 07, 2017 11:59 am

aviationaware wrote:
This won't speed up any time soon either as long as the German Air Force keeps refusing to take planes with tiny scratches on the painting of control panels.
Believe it or not but although Germans are known for what you're describing, I heard they're not the pickiest A400M customer. (uncontested second, though)

I think you're wrong, GAF delivery are currently speeding up ! They will receive the most of 2017 delivery, already 2 and 7 more to come this year.
And I believe they're prepared for that because last month we saw MSN49 and its little sister MSN48 (both GAF) doing Customer Acceptance flights in the same period, indicating GAF have now two "acceptance team".

WhiIe I agree looking for scratches and cosmetic defect on military plane seems pointless, it seems to me that's part of the "game". I mean, the more the buyer team find defects the more it can negotiate discount, and as much as it can be ridiculous any scratch is a defect that can be negate by the OEM.
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keesje
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Re: A400M Update

Mon Jun 12, 2017 10:27 pm

RAF is putting A400 crew through their low level training since early 2017, the Mach loop in Wales.

https://youtu.be/09l-Wc_33fk?t=2m2s
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Slug71
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Re: A400M Update

Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:56 am

Are all the missing capabilities still on track to be completed by next year?
 
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keesje
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Re: A400M Update

Sun Jun 25, 2017 7:59 pm

Slug71 wrote:
Are all the missing capabilities still on track to be completed by next year?


http://aviationweek.com/defense/french-air-force-happy-airbus-a400m-progress

Unprepared runways: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIxy6Gt3QUA
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CX747
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Re: A400M Update

Sun Jun 25, 2017 9:05 pm

Hmm, half of France's fleet is not available and they consider "landing in Iraq" a vote of confidence. Well, well, C-130s, C-17s and a host of other transport aircraft have been landing in Iraq for almost 14-15 years now and have better than 50-60% availability.

This is not a "game changer" but a dud. Gearbox issues, a countermeasure suite that fails to meet standards and still no helo refuel capability. Sounds like a real winner. The A400 fleet continues to fall short while other platforms do the real work in Iraq, Afghanistan and a thousand other places.

The proof is in the pudding that a joint fleet of 12 C-130Js will be operated by France & Germany. That number of 12 by the way is the minimum that will be operated. Germany has already stated an intent to procure another 6 if funds are available.

C-130E, H and J models have been hauling the trash and getting the JOB done in places the A400 still hasn't even attempted. Foreign nations would be better served buying surplus USAF C-130H models. Have heavy maintenance done, dump one of the updated glass cockpits into it and take home a bird at a fraction of the cost that really fits the mission profile needs of most countries.

If a nation needs more than a C-130 brings to the table, "buy" some airtime of the massive worldwide fleet of C-17s, a USAF C-5 or a Russian freight hauler.
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Nicoeddf
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Re: A400M Update

Mon Jun 26, 2017 7:31 am

CX747 wrote:
Hmm, half of France's fleet is not available and they consider "landing in Iraq" a vote of confidence. Well, well, C-130s, C-17s and a host of other transport aircraft have been landing in Iraq for almost 14-15 years now and have better than 50-60% availability.

This is not a "game changer" but a dud. Gearbox issues, a countermeasure suite that fails to meet standards and still no helo refuel capability. Sounds like a real winner. The A400 fleet continues to fall short while other platforms do the real work in Iraq, Afghanistan and a thousand other places.

The proof is in the pudding that a joint fleet of 12 C-130Js will be operated by France & Germany. That number of 12 by the way is the minimum that will be operated. Germany has already stated an intent to procure another 6 if funds are available.

C-130E, H and J models have been hauling the trash and getting the JOB done in places the A400 still hasn't even attempted. Foreign nations would be better served buying surplus USAF C-130H models. Have heavy maintenance done, dump one of the updated glass cockpits into it and take home a bird at a fraction of the cost that really fits the mission profile needs of most countries.

If a nation needs more than a C-130 brings to the table, "buy" some airtime of the massive worldwide fleet of C-17s, a USAF C-5 or a Russian freight hauler.


Feel better now? All the steam out of the system ;)

Reality is, the plane will be a great performer after maturing. Like all the other "duds" of the various manufacturers have been performing after maturing eventually.

You know, France and Germany will likely be better of anyway flying mixed fleets. Different capabilities for different cost per flight hour. Think that's a good idea as a taxpayer.
But rant on :)

And seriously...people need to stop this game changer crap. It's all evolution...
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KarelXWB
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Re: A400M Update

Mon Jun 26, 2017 8:17 am

CX747 wrote:
Hmm, half of France's fleet is not available and they consider "landing in Iraq" a vote of confidence. Well, well, C-130s, C-17s and a host of other transport aircraft have been landing in Iraq for almost 14-15 years now and have better than 50-60% availability.


How would the A400M perform in 14-15 years from now?
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jupiter2
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Re: A400M Update

Mon Jun 26, 2017 9:55 am

KarelXWB wrote:
CX747 wrote:
Hmm, half of France's fleet is not available and they consider "landing in Iraq" a vote of confidence. Well, well, C-130s, C-17s and a host of other transport aircraft have been landing in Iraq for almost 14-15 years now and have better than 50-60% availability.


How would the A400M perform in 14-15 years from now?


Hopefully really well, but we know that the C-130 and C-17 will still be performing excellent duty. The C-130 must be one of the best and most enduring designs ever in aviation history.
 
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Revelation
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Re: A400M Update

Mon Jun 26, 2017 10:25 am

KarelXWB wrote:
CX747 wrote:
Hmm, half of France's fleet is not available and they consider "landing in Iraq" a vote of confidence. Well, well, C-130s, C-17s and a host of other transport aircraft have been landing in Iraq for almost 14-15 years now and have better than 50-60% availability.


How would the A400M perform in 14-15 years from now?

It seems it won't be refueling helicopters in 14-15 years unless the "research project" ( http://aviationweek.com/defense/a400m-h ... ch-project ) comes up with a solution.

In my experience, when we call something a "research project" it means we really don't have a workable solution in sight.

It turns out that giant turboprops are pretty good for getting large transports off the ground, but they do generate a lot of turbulence, apparently more than predicted.
Inspiration, move me brightly! Light the song with sense and color.
Hold away despair, more than this I will not ask.
Faced with mysteries dark and vast, statements just seem vain at last.
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KarelXWB
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Re: A400M Update

Mon Jun 26, 2017 10:30 am

Revelation wrote:
It seems it won't be refueling helicopters in 14-15 years unless the "research project" ( http://aviationweek.com/defense/a400m-h ... ch-project ) comes up with a solution.


Article dates from 2015 (!), the refuel system has been redesigned and is about to get certified:

After testing a beach landing capability with a Royal Air Force A400M earlier this month, Airbus Defence & Space says it is on track to qualify a redesigned helicopter refuelling system, roll-out a final solution to a power gearbox problem and resolve a dispute over penalties caused by delivery delays.

...

In the meantime, Airbus is working to address requirements that the A400M is currently unable to meet. The company has successfully tested an extended refuelling hose that can allow the Atlas to support helicopters, Alonso says, and it is now waiting for OCCAR to approve the proposed redesign.


Ref https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... ac-438229/
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Revelation
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Re: A400M Update

Mon Jun 26, 2017 10:34 am

KarelXWB wrote:
Revelation wrote:
It seems it won't be refueling helicopters in 14-15 years unless the "research project" ( http://aviationweek.com/defense/a400m-h ... ch-project ) comes up with a solution.


Article dates from 2015 (!), the refuel system has been redesigned and is about to get certified:

After testing a beach landing capability with a Royal Air Force A400M earlier this month, Airbus Defence & Space says it is on track to qualify a redesigned helicopter refuelling system, roll-out a final solution to a power gearbox problem and resolve a dispute over penalties caused by delivery delays.

...

In the meantime, Airbus is working to address requirements that the A400M is currently unable to meet. The company has successfully tested an extended refuelling hose that can allow the Atlas to support helicopters, Alonso says, and it is now waiting for OCCAR to approve the proposed redesign.


Ref https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... ac-438229/


That's a very quick turnaround on a difficult problem. Hope the qualifications go well!
Inspiration, move me brightly! Light the song with sense and color.
Hold away despair, more than this I will not ask.
Faced with mysteries dark and vast, statements just seem vain at last.
Some rise, some fall, some climb, to get to Terrapin!
 
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Grizzly410
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Re: A400M Update

Mon Jun 26, 2017 11:37 am

CX747 wrote:
Hmm, half of France's fleet is not available and they consider "landing in Iraq" a vote of confidence. Well, well, C-130s, C-17s and a host of other transport aircraft have been landing in Iraq for almost 14-15 years now and have better than 50-60% availability.


I don't know for Irak, I haven't read anywhere France couldn't landing in Irak. Do you have some source on that ?

Same thing for the 50% of the fleet not available, any source? Since the gearbox fix they seem to be satisfied, from the lieutenant-colonel Paul Villemin "officier programme A400M à l'état-major de l'armée de l'air", which I think is a more than credible source :
"L'armée de l'air est complètement satisfaite des avions à ce stade de développement, et leur fiabilité est devenue très acceptable", translated by me : "French Airforce is entirely satisfied of its aircrafts at this stage of development, their reliability is now very acceptable"
https://www.lesechos.fr/industrie-servi ... 5q31VOH.99

Whereas the availability of the C-130H seems to be "desperately low" (désespérement basse).
http://www.opex360.com/2017/03/29/epee- ... rancaises/
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keesje
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Re: A400M Update

Tue Jun 27, 2017 8:20 pm

CX747 wrote:
..

Cool & not from here leads to surprizing perceptions.
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
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KarelXWB
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Re: A400M Update

Thu Jun 29, 2017 9:48 am

What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
Slug71
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Re: A400M Update

Thu Jun 29, 2017 4:42 pm

CX747 wrote:
Hmm, half of France's fleet is not available and they consider "landing in Iraq" a vote of confidence. Well, well, C-130s, C-17s and a host of other transport aircraft have been landing in Iraq for almost 14-15 years now and have better than 50-60% availability.

This is not a "game changer" but a dud. Gearbox issues, a countermeasure suite that fails to meet standards and still no helo refuel capability. Sounds like a real winner. The A400 fleet continues to fall short while other platforms do the real work in Iraq, Afghanistan and a thousand other places.

The proof is in the pudding that a joint fleet of 12 C-130Js will be operated by France & Germany. That number of 12 by the way is the minimum that will be operated. Germany has already stated an intent to procure another 6 if funds are available.

C-130E, H and J models have been hauling the trash and getting the JOB done in places the A400 still hasn't even attempted. Foreign nations would be better served buying surplus USAF C-130H models. Have heavy maintenance done, dump one of the updated glass cockpits into it and take home a bird at a fraction of the cost that really fits the mission profile needs of most countries.

If a nation needs more than a C-130 brings to the table, "buy" some airtime of the massive worldwide fleet of C-17s, a USAF C-5 or a Russian freight hauler.


There's always that one....

I would hardly call it a dud. This aircraft is still very much in it's infancy phase compared to the C-130 and C-17. This is also a first for Airbus, going into this territory. So teething issues are to be expected. A lot of politics also went into this project and is probably responsible for a lot of the issues and delays. But I have no doubt that it will prevail and be very successful in the years to come. Once all the fixes are implemented and aircraft start rolling off the line with Full Capability, it probably will be a game changer.
I imagine it will even get additional capabilities in the not too distant future.



RE: the last post about the Pack 2 PGB fix, glad to see progress being made and certification is around the corner. Soon should be testing of the heli refueling update too. Low-level terrain following, and updated self-protection can't be too far off either.
 
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Re: A400M Update

Fri Jun 30, 2017 9:40 pm

@Slug71

Great Post! Just: no, it wont be a game changer. Seriously when was the last time in the industry anything changing the game? I suggest it was 707...
This word is used way too often.
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Dutchy
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Re: A400M Update

Fri Jun 30, 2017 10:12 pm

Nicoeddf wrote:
@Slug71

Great Post! Just: no, it wont be a game changer. Seriously when was the last time in the industry anything changing the game? I suggest it was 707...
This word is used way too often.


First commercial jet and the first widebody, after that mostly evolution no game changer. I agree, too much is labeled as a gamechanger.
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keesje
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Re: A400M Update

Sat Jul 01, 2017 6:08 pm

"Game changer" is up to the users.

It can fly from Europe via commercial airways at M .7 into Africa / Middle East land on a unprepared strip and unload 30-40t of goods including serious sized vehicles. A C-17 can't really land / brake on soft ground without fallowing it. A C130/ Transall can, but has become too small to handle serious vehicles.

Image
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Ozair
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Re: A400M Update

Sun Jul 02, 2017 2:31 am

keesje wrote:
"Game changer" is up to the users.

It can fly from Europe via commercial airways at M .7 into Africa / Middle East land on a unprepared strip and unload 30-40t of goods including serious sized vehicles. A C-17 can't really land / brake on soft ground without fallowing it. A C130/ Transall can, but has become too small to handle serious vehicles.

The devil is in the details. There is a big difference in range between 30t and 40t, as evidenced by the airbus slide below.
Image
At 37t it won't make it to the Middle East and just brushes the top of Africa.
At 30t it can get to close to a third of Africa and most of the Middle East minus Iran.

Problem being it won't take that payload and then fly back home, you still need the fuel bowser at the other end to fill the aircraft up. Hence flying into unpaved areas makes little sense and why the French haven't flown the A400M into unpaved strips in Africa/Middle East yet.

Also not much point comparing the C-17 to the A400M, they are in completely different weight/range classes, essentially you're comparing a 747 and a A320. The C-17 is also quite capable of landing on unpaved runways and has done so operationally for the last ten years. The issue with the C-17, and would be similar for the A400M, is landing on the same semi-prepared runway multiple times.

Aside from the above, operationally dropping a 37t armoured vehicle 1700nm away is useless if you can't support that vehicle with fuel, ammunition, food, spares etc. You need multiple drops and continued support for that unrealistic scenario, hence why they use paved runways and land move vehicles closer to the FEBA.
 
Slug71
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Re: A400M Update

Sun Jul 02, 2017 3:32 am

Don't think range is too much of an issue for the C-17 and A400m since they can both be refuelled in-flight.
 
mjoelnir
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Re: A400M Update

Sun Jul 02, 2017 12:52 pm

Slug71 wrote:
Soon should be testing of the heli refueling update too. Low-level terrain following, and updated self-protection can't be too far off either.


As far as I know the testing has been done, the wait is now for certification.
 
Nicoeddf
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Re: A400M Update

Sun Jul 02, 2017 2:36 pm

keesje wrote:
"Game changer" is up to the users.

It can fly from Europe via commercial airways at M .7 into Africa / Middle East land on a unprepared strip and unload 30-40t of goods including serious sized vehicles. A C-17 can't really land / brake on soft ground without fallowing it. A C130/ Transall can, but has become too small to handle serious vehicles.


Still not changing the game. The business of bringing military and/or outsized cargo to paved and unpaved strips is known since at least 50 years in the quality we know today. Yes, A/C got more efficient, yes, the gained capabiltiy. Game changing as in seriously changing the way things are done? Hardly. Not for the users, not for anybody else.
Enslave yourself to the divine disguised as salvation
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keesje
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Re: A400M Update

Mon Jul 03, 2017 10:14 am

It's a game changer for European armed forces.

It's a huge step up in rapid deployment and capability into surrounding regions for various missions the Transall, C130s / C17s couldn't do.

RAF beach tests: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCiSyH4_7NM

Image

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SCAT15F
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Re: A400M Update

Wed Jul 05, 2017 7:23 pm

The amount of dislike for turboprops on this site never fails to amaze me...
 
Nicoeddf
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Re: A400M Update

Wed Jul 05, 2017 7:30 pm

SCAT15F wrote:
The amount of dislike for turboprops on this site never fails to amaze me...


Where do you get that from?
Enslave yourself to the divine disguised as salvation
that your bought with your sacrifice
Deception justified for your holy design
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tommy1808
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Re: A400M Update

Thu Jul 06, 2017 7:33 am

Nicoeddf wrote:
Still not changing the game. The business of bringing military and/or outsized cargo to paved and unpaved strips is known since at least 50 years in the quality we know today. Yes, A/C got more efficient, yes, the gained capabiltiy. Game changing as in seriously changing the way things are done? Hardly. Not for the users, not for anybody else.


This is a game changer, if you look at the right nische. It can fly pretty much all NATO combat vehicles aside of MBTs into a CBR6 unpaved field and land 25 ton payload with enough fuel to get out of there and fly 500nm or to a tanker and all the way home to a 2500 feet rough strip. And do that 40 times before the strip needs refurbishment. Just like the C130 it can fly into CBR4 fields. A C17 lands on a CBR8 once before it needs refurbishing. It does all that just a notch slower than the C17.

It is pretty much a C-141 Starlifter, payload, making babies wth a C160, rough field capability wise. That is very unique,

best regards
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SeJoWa
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Re: A400M Update

Thu Jul 06, 2017 9:32 am

keesje, thank you for the reference to that very recent beach landing video. Very interesting precision touch-and-go.
 
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Re: A400M Update

Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:01 pm

Another one for Turkey delivered:

Airbus A400M -180 55 160055 Türk Hava Kuvvetleri delivery 14jul17 SVQ-LTAU ex A4M055
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keesje
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Re: A400M Update

Fri Jul 21, 2017 11:27 am

I think many requirements will come up with many airforces all over the world in the 10-15 years.

The A400M will mature and economies of scale will be realized.

Sales will come https://youtu.be/5JIamYBaU0M No competition helps too.
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
Ozair
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Re: A400M Update

Fri Jul 21, 2017 12:28 pm

keesje wrote:
I think many requirements will come up with many airforces all over the world in the 10-15 years.

The A400M will mature and economies of scale will be realized.

Sales will come https://youtu.be/5JIamYBaU0M No competition helps too.

I think the requirements of militaries works against the A400. How many nations around the globe have the expeditionary requirement to move heavy armored vehicles by air? Those that do have ordered C-17s or A400Ms already. The rest of the tactical transport market should be satisfied with the smaller and cheaper to acquire and operate C-130, KC-390, C-2 etc.
 
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keesje
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Re: A400M Update

Fri Jul 21, 2017 1:49 pm

Ozair wrote:
keesje wrote:
I think many requirements will come up with many airforces all over the world in the 10-15 years.

The A400M will mature and economies of scale will be realized.

Sales will come https://youtu.be/5JIamYBaU0M No competition helps too.

I think the requirements of militaries works against the A400. How many nations around the globe have the expeditionary requirement to move heavy armored vehicles by air? Those that do have ordered C-17s or A400Ms already. The rest of the tactical transport market should be satisfied with the smaller and cheaper to acquire and operate C-130, KC-390, C-2 etc.


I think the capabilities of the mentioned aircraft are far enough apart to make them complemenatry. A400M operators will always need additional smaller aircraft to move around some pallets, people. equipment for which a A400M woud be expensive overkill. A400m's will be there for more demanding and/ or larger scale operations.


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Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos