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KarelXWB
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Re: KC-46 Production, Testing And Delivery

Thu Jan 26, 2017 11:37 am

Some notes from the latest earnings call:

Boeing CEO still believes KC-46 can be profitable despite further charges in Q4

Boeing CEO says "disappointed" with latest KC-46 charge; "we are not discovering new technical risks"

Boeing CEO stopped short of saying latest tanker charge would be the last

KC-46 tanker will turn cashflow positive in 2018


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WIederling
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Re: KC-46 Production, Testing And Delivery

Thu Jan 26, 2017 11:50 am

moo wrote:
WIederling wrote:
Developement and first 4 test frames was estimated to cost less than $5b.
What was the projected bill for devel + 4 proto + ?17? first batch frames?


The first LRIP contract, issued in August 2016 for two batches (7 and 12 aircraft, plus spares) was set at $2.8Billion.

http://www.combataircraft.net/2016/08/1 ... -contract/


i.e. decidedly less than $8b for the whole shebang?
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moo
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Re: KC-46 Production, Testing And Delivery

Thu Jan 26, 2017 1:28 pm

WIederling wrote:
moo wrote:
WIederling wrote:
Developement and first 4 test frames was estimated to cost less than $5b.
What was the projected bill for devel + 4 proto + ?17? first batch frames?


The first LRIP contract, issued in August 2016 for two batches (7 and 12 aircraft, plus spares) was set at $2.8Billion.

http://www.combataircraft.net/2016/08/1 ... -contract/


i.e. decidedly less than $8b for the whole shebang?


Hmm, it depends - the 2011 USAF SAR budget document for the KC-46 shows that the USAF budgeted around $7Billion for RDT&E by year end 2016, plus purchase costs of $3.5Billion for the acquisition of 19 aircraft by year end 2016.

The waters are a little muddy.

The contract price ceiling was set at $4.83Billion for the 4 development frames, plus the $3.5Billion for the first 19 aircraft would bring us to a budget of $8.33Billion for the first batch.

I'm not sure why the August 2016 contract was set at a lower cost than the 2011 budget based off the contract - I'm *guessing* that the 2016 contract for $2.8Billion includes penalties for Boeing missing targets (the first 7 aircraft were supposed to be procured in 2015 - instead, the first two batches were rolled into one procurement in 2016).

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ ... p-2011.pdf
 
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moo
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Re: KC-46 Production, Testing And Delivery

Thu Jan 26, 2017 1:33 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
Some notes from the latest earnings call:

Boeing CEO still believes KC-46 can be profitable despite further charges in Q4

Boeing CEO says "disappointed" with latest KC-46 charge; "we are not discovering new technical risks"

Boeing CEO stopped short of saying latest tanker charge would be the last

KC-46 tanker will turn cashflow positive in 2018


https://twitter.com/R_Wall


Do the latest charges include all penalties for the KC-46 delivery miss for 2017? If not, then thats why he didn't say anything about no more charges...
 
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KarelXWB
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Re: KC-46 Production, Testing And Delivery

Thu Jan 26, 2017 2:58 pm

scbriml wrote:
trex8 wrote:
its actually more than that 312 million.


I think that pushes them over the $2billion mark on cost over-runs for the tanker.


Looks like it. Flightglobal writes:

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... es-433523/

Boeing’s KC-46 tanker took a $312 million hit to its bottom line last quarter, bringing total charges over the course of the recapitalisation programme to more than $2 billion.

Boeing Commercial absorbed a $243 million pre-tax charge on the KC-46 Tanker programme, while its defense sector took a $69 million pre-tax charge as well. It marks the fifth cost overrun for the programme, following a $354 million and $219 million charge to Boeing commercial and defense last July associated with a refueling boom issue. In the previous quarter that year, the tanker programme cost Boeing commercial $162 million and its defense sector $91 million.
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kanban
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Re: KC-46 Production, Testing And Delivery

Sat Jan 28, 2017 4:20 am

well in-spite of the problems, the government just bought 15 more
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/boeing-wi ... 20035.html
 
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moo
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Re: KC-46 Production, Testing And Delivery

Sat Jan 28, 2017 2:45 pm

kanban wrote:
well in-spite of the problems, the government just bought 15 more
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/boeing-wi ... 20035.html


Boeing is on a fixed price contract, the USAF and DoD are loving it and of course will continue to buy the aircraft - all the financial issues from this point onward are Boeings and Boeings alone.

Boeing has to find something like $10Million savings per unit now to bring them back even with the contract - doable? Probably - it might not even blow out the per-unit profit margin.
 
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Re: KC-46 Production, Testing And Delivery

Wed Feb 01, 2017 10:12 am

A nice photo of the KC-46A storage area:

Image
https://twitter.com/mattcawby
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Re: KC-46 Production, Testing And Delivery

Fri Feb 10, 2017 8:22 pm

Close, but no cigar http://vine.co/v/OjqeYWWpVWK
 
mjoelnir
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Re: KC-46 Production, Testing And Delivery

Thu Feb 16, 2017 10:45 am

Further delays: https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... 18-434228/

Moving tests five month from August 2017 to January 2018.
 
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Re: KC-46 Production, Testing And Delivery

Thu Feb 16, 2017 11:20 am

Will this further affect the delivery schedule?
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Re: KC-46 Production, Testing And Delivery

Thu Feb 16, 2017 1:48 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
Will this further affect the delivery schedule?

Article says:

Delivery of the initial 18 aircraft is projected for February of 2018, rather than the August 2017 date announced last May.
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Re: KC-46 Production, Testing And Delivery

Thu Feb 16, 2017 1:54 pm

February 2018 is the current delivery schedule, announced after the previous delay. So I wonder if the newest delay will further affect the delivery schedule.
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Re: KC-46 Production, Testing And Delivery

Thu Feb 16, 2017 2:06 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
February 2018 is the current delivery schedule, announced after the previous delay. So I wonder if the newest delay will further affect the delivery schedule.


From the article, it seems that this delay is the fall-out of the boom re-design. So February 2018 is the date negotiated between Boeing and the USAF after they went over the recovery plan.

This is typical as it may take months to re-work the contract and get it approved from the time a recovery plan is submitted.

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Re: KC-46 Production, Testing And Delivery

Fri Feb 17, 2017 2:09 pm

Latest photo of the storage area:

Image
KC-46A in Storage by Woodys Aeroimages, on Flickr
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Re: KC-46 Production, Testing And Delivery

Fri Feb 17, 2017 2:10 pm

Close, but no cigar http://vine.co/v/OjqeYWWpVWK
 
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747classic
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Re: KC-46 Production, Testing And Delivery

Mon Mar 06, 2017 6:49 am

KC-46A update :

L/N 1065 C/N 41273 B767-2LKC N461FT 11-46001 USAF KC-46A (VH001) EMD1, active, flight testing
L/N 1066 C/N 41274 B767-2LKC N464KC 11-46004 USAF KC-46A (VH002) EMD4, active, flight testing
L/N 1067 C/N 34054 B767-2LKC N463FT 11-46003 USAF KC-46A (VH003) EMD3, active, flight testing
L/N 1069 C/N 41275 B767-2LKC N462KC 11-46002 USAF KC-46A (VH004)EMD2,active, flight testing
L/N 1091 C/N 41852 B767-2LKC N842BA 16-46005 USAF KC46A (VH005) LRIP 1, #1/7, active flight testing
L/N 1092 C/N 41983 B767-2LKC N884BA 16-46006 USAF KC46A (VH006) LRIP 1, #2/7, pre flight testing
L/N 1098 C/N 41855 B767-2LKC 16-46007 USAF KC-46A (VH007) LRIP 1, #3/7, stored
L/N 1100 C/N 41856 B767-2LKC 16-46008 USAF KC-46A (VH008) LRIP 1, #4/7, stored
L/N 1102 C/N 41858 B767-2LKC 16-46009 USAF KC-46A (VH009) LRIP 1, #5/7, stored
L/N 1104 C/N 41859 B767-2LKC 16-46010 USAF KC-46A (VH010) LRIP 1, #6/7, stored
L/N 1107 C/N 34106 B767-2LKC 16-46011 USAF KC-46A (VH011) LRIP 1, #7/7, stored
L/N 1109 C/N 34107 B767-2LKC 16-46012 USAF KC-46A (VH012) LRIP 2, #1/12, stored
L/N 1111 C/N 34109 B767-2LKC 16-46013 USAF KC-46A (VH013) LRIP 2, #2/12, EMC
L/N 1113 C/N 34105 B767-2LKC 16-46014 USAF KC-46A (VH014) LRIP 2, #3/12, stored
L/N 1114 C/N 34134 B767-2LKC 16-46015 USAF KC-46A (VH015) LRIP 2, #4/12, stored
L/N 1116 C/N 41860 B767-2LKC 16-46016 USAF KC-46A (VH016) LRIP 2, #5/12, stored
L/N 1117 C/N 34108 B767-2LKC 16-46017 USAF KC-46A (VH017) LRIP 2, #6/12, stored
L/N 1119 C/N 34135 B767-2LKC 16-46018 USAF KC-46A (VH018) LRIP 2, #7/12, stored
L/N 1120 C/N 34138 B767-2LKC 16-46019 USAF KC-46A (VH019) LRIP 2, #8/12, FAL
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Re: KC-46 Production, Testing And Delivery

Mon Mar 06, 2017 9:50 am

bikerthai wrote:
From the article, it seems that this delay is the fall-out of the boom re-design.


What is wrong with the boom ?
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Re: KC-46 Production, Testing And Delivery

Mon Mar 06, 2017 11:25 am

zeke wrote:
bikerthai wrote:
From the article, it seems that this delay is the fall-out of the boom re-design.


What is wrong with the boom ?


https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... 18-434228/ says:

But after Boeing discovered higher than expected axial loads on the refueling boom last May, the programme was forced to rebaseline its schedule.
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Re: KC-46 Production, Testing And Delivery

Wed Mar 08, 2017 7:40 am

The firing order of the last four (4) KC-46A aircraft of the Low Rate Initial Production (LRIP) batch 2 :

L/N 1122 C/N 34137 B767-2LKC 16-46020 USAF KC-46A (VH020) LRIP 2, #9/12, parts arriving at Everett
L/N 1124 C/N 34139 B767-2LKC 16-46021 USAF KC-46A (VH021) LRIP 2, #10/12, parts arriving at Everett
L/N 1126 C/N 34136 B767-2LKC 16-46022 USAF KC-46A (VH022) LRIP 2, #11/12,
L/N 1128 C/N 41861 B767-2LKC 16-46023 USAF KC-46A (VH023) LRIP 2, #12/12

The firing order of the next batch (LRIP 3) of 15 KC-46A aircraft is TBD.
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Re: KC-46 Production, Testing And Delivery

Sat Mar 11, 2017 6:25 am

In the picture posted by Karelxwb above you can just see a yellow object in the rear cargo hold, is this one of the auxiliary fuel tanks, is the lower
cargo hold space all taken up by these tanks and are they permanently installed or designed to easily 'slide in and out' like LD containers ?
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Re: KC-46 Production, Testing And Delivery

Wed Mar 22, 2017 2:47 pm

LN 1119 spotted at the fuel dock yesterday:

Image
Fuel Dock 3.21.2017 by Woodys Aeroimages, on Flickr
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bikerthai
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Re: KC-46 Production, Testing And Delivery

Thu Mar 23, 2017 1:44 pm

Max Q wrote:
is the lower
cargo hold space all taken up by these tanks and are they permanently installed or designed to easily 'slide in and out' like LD containers ?


I was waiting for someone else to answer, but since no one is responding, I will try my best.

These tanks are designed to be removed, but they are not like the LD containers that rolls on and off via cargo handling system. These tanks would require special equipment to lift and slide out of the aircraft.

bt
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