UPS757Pilot
Posts: 66
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2007 5:22 am

Re: KC-46 Production, Testing And Delivery

Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:43 pm

sovietjet wrote:
Consider this a silly question, but why did they decide to make things overly complicated by removing the boom window and adding a camera? There has always been a boom operator so it will not remove that position. Why fix something that isn't broken, and better yet proven to work just fine for almost 70 years?? Sometimes there really isn't anything better than the MK1 eyeball. We all know camera sensors don't have nearly the same dynamic range as a human eye. It seems like a very stupid decision. A window in the back will probably cost less than a fancy camera system as well...

I believe it has more to do with weight savings, which allows more fuel to be carried and offloaded to meet contractual specifications.
 
mjoelnir
Posts: 6744
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:06 pm

Re: KC-46 Production, Testing And Delivery

Wed Apr 11, 2018 12:25 am

brindabella wrote:
kanban wrote:
somehow scrapping (the process of rendering un-useable) has become confused with scraping (the removal of matter by abrading) ..


Thanks kanban.

Was giving me that headache that Rev described in the 788 context where the plane is supposedly simultaneously too light and too heavy!

:crazy:

PS: BTW the RAAF here in Oz accepted and flew the KC-30s for years with the Boom inoperable after the serious testing incidents.
Strikes me a better outcome is available for the USAF right now.


cheers


It sounds very good to talk about years flying the KC-30A with an inoperable boom. The RAAF got its first A330MRTT in 2011. Boom operation had no priority than, as all RAAF frames to be refuel had a probe. The drogue and probe had initial trouble with to high flows.
2014 the KC-30A was fully operational in regards to boom and drogue. The camera controlled seems to work fine including on stealth aircraft.

Anyway, what serious test incident happened in Australia with the boom?
 
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Stitch
Posts: 25211
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

Re: KC-46 Production, Testing And Delivery

Wed Apr 11, 2018 12:54 am

mjoelnir wrote:
Anyway, what serious test incident happened in Australia with the boom?


A KC-30A shed it's boom during a refueling operation with a Portuguese F-16.
http://www.defence.gov.au/Publications/ ... 000771.pdf

A UAE A330MRTT also shed it's boom over Spain during testing.
 
Ozair
Posts: 2368
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 8:38 am

Re: KC-46 Production, Testing And Delivery

Wed Apr 11, 2018 1:22 am

mjoelnir wrote:

It sounds very good to talk about years flying the KC-30A with an inoperable boom. The RAAF got its first A330MRTT in 2011. Boom operation had no priority than, as all RAAF frames to be refuel had a probe. The drogue and probe had initial trouble with to high flows.
2014 the KC-30A was fully operational in regards to boom and drogue. The camera controlled seems to work fine including on stealth aircraft.

Anyway, what serious test incident happened in Australia with the boom?


Stitch wrote:

A KC-30A shed it's boom during a refueling operation with a Portuguese F-16.
http://www.defence.gov.au/Publications/ ... 000771.pdf

A UAE A330MRTT also shed it's boom over Spain during testing.

Just to be clear, Brindabella didn't indicate Australia as where the boom incidents occurred, just that they did and Stitch has subsequently pointed out the specific incidents. If you had read a single post past where Brindabella made that comment the answer, my comment and his subsequent response to it, makes clear he was aware of the facts around initial non boom requirements.
 
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kanban
Posts: 3799
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 1:00 am

Re: KC-46 Production, Testing And Delivery

Wed Apr 11, 2018 7:24 pm

Stitch wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:
Anyway, what serious test incident happened in Australia with the boom?


A KC-30A shed it's boom during a refueling operation with a Portuguese F-16.
http://www.defence.gov.au/Publications/ ... 000771.pdf

A UAE A330MRTT also shed it's boom over Spain during testing.


did it scratch the paint on the F-16... ? Oh please so 'no' :duck:
 
mjoelnir
Posts: 6744
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:06 pm

Re: KC-46 Production, Testing And Delivery

Thu Apr 12, 2018 4:45 pm

kanban wrote:
Stitch wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:
Anyway, what serious test incident happened in Australia with the boom?


A KC-30A shed it's boom during a refueling operation with a Portuguese F-16.
http://www.defence.gov.au/Publications/ ... 000771.pdf

A UAE A330MRTT also shed it's boom over Spain during testing.


did it scratch the paint on the F-16... ? Oh please so 'no' :duck:


Let us now see the KC-30A had two boom losses one while still in the test phase and before the first frame was delivered to Australia. The other a different boom with an additional or different retraction system for the UAE, so not the same boom as on the Australian KC30.

It seems people here do believe that a boom loss or boom accidents happens only to Airbus tankers.

http://defence-blog.com/news/u-s-air-fo ... rcise.html

The above is about a boom loss on a USA KC-10.
 
CX747
Posts: 5958
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:54 am

Re: KC-46 Production, Testing And Delivery

Sun Apr 15, 2018 3:25 am

All other tankers shall bow at the boom of the KC-135.

Analysis shows KC-135s participating in last night's operation against Syria/Russia/Iran. Some of those birds have a tail code starting in 58...which means it was paid for with fiscal year 1958 finances. That's long before the KC-46 was a glimmer in the lead engineer's eyes or Europe thought about forming a company named Airbus. One has to wonder how many early morning sunrises those birds have seen after spending a night defending the free world's freedom.

Let's enjoy that freedom and discuss the KC-46. Not fight over which free world tanker is ready to take over the KC-135s mantle.
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
 
Ozair
Posts: 2368
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 8:38 am

Re: KC-46 Production, Testing And Delivery

Fri Apr 20, 2018 12:21 am

More drama but likely not a significant issue.

New software flaw requires FAA intervention to avoid KC-46 schedule slip

A newly-discovered software flaw could trigger another schedule delay for the Boeing KC-46A Pegasus unless the US Federal Aviation Administration approves a temporary waiver from certification requirements.In a document submitted to the FAA on 26 March, Boeing requests a time-limited exemption from the FAA’s supplemental type certification criteria for the 767-2C, the commercial aircraft model on which the KC-46A is derived.

If approved, the exemption would expire after 30 June next year, but by then Boeing plans to deliver a permanent fix for the software problem. Meanwhile, Boeing has proposed using a third crew member in the cockpit to mitigate any hazard from the problem while the exemption is in effect. A “delay of FAA action on this petition” would put off the supplemental type certification of the 767-2C and “its entry into service”, Boeing says in the document. The FAA responded to Boeing’s petition 19 days later, but did not immediately approve the exemption. Instead, Paul Siegmund, manager of the FAA’s airplane and flight crew interface section, asked Boeing to provide more details.

After Boeing provides those details, the FAA will publish Boeing’s petition in the Federal Register for a 20-day comment period.Despite the need for an exemption, Boeing isn’t concerned about the impact on the schedule for the KC-46A. “We are working this in concert with the USAF and are confident the FAA will grant an exemption,” Boeing tells FlightGlobal.
Boeing informed the USAF programme office of the new problem in February, the USAF says.

Since then, “the programme office has been working with Boeing to ascertain impacts and potential options” the air force adds, noting any extra costs caused by schedule delays are Boeing’s responsibility. The software flaw affects the aircraft only when the KC-46A is on-loading fuel in-flight into the centre fuel tank.

In Boeing’s view, the problem is highly unlikely to cause a safety hazard. As fuel is onloaded into the tank, three separate functions embedded in a fuel flow controller must fail at the same time and continuously. If they do, however, an overpressure could develop in the centre fuel tank with catastrophic results, Boeing says. But that discovery alone wouldn’t force Boeing to petition the FAA for an exemption. The certification problem for the 767-2C is based on a small detail. All three software functions that could fail operate on a single processor, according to Boeing.

The FAA’s certification rules mandate that such an aircraft use an automatic and independent system for monitoring fuel onloading to prevent an overpressure condition, Boeing’s document says.
Boeing now plans to develop, certificate and deploy such an automated monitoring system within a year. Until then, Boeing will require that the USAF assign a third crew member to monitor the fuel gauges when the aircraft is onloading fuel, according to the document.

The USAF accepts Boeing’s proposed mitigation as “manageable in the short-term”, the service tells FlightGlobal, adding, “the Air Force understands the timeline Boeing has presented to incorporate the necessary changes to remove the [proposed exemption]”.


https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... id-447827/

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