CX747
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Re: KC-46 Production, Testing And Delivery

Sat Sep 09, 2017 1:59 pm

While not production related, the USAF has decided to base some of the first combat coded KC-46s at McGuire AFB and Travis AFB. KC-10s are stationed at those two locations, not KC-135s. There has been some rumbling about retiring the -10s and then comments made to keep them flying. Just a new wrinkle in exactly how the -46 is going to be used. 135 replacement, 10 replacement or just adding another type to the fleet. Note that none of the 135s are being retired as 46s come on board, they are just being sent to other bases and squadrons to increase numbers.
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Slug71
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Re: KC-46 Production, Testing And Delivery

Sat Sep 09, 2017 4:51 pm

CX747 wrote:
While not production related, the USAF has decided to base some of the first combat coded KC-46s at McGuire AFB and Travis AFB. KC-10s are stationed at those two locations, not KC-135s. There has been some rumbling about retiring the -10s and then comments made to keep them flying. Just a new wrinkle in exactly how the -46 is going to be used. 135 replacement, 10 replacement or just adding another type to the fleet. Note that none of the 135s are being retired as 46s come on board, they are just being sent to other bases and squadrons to increase numbers.


I could be wrong, but I think I read somewhere a little while ago that a number of the oldest KC-10s will be replaced by the KC-46A. Pease AFB, will be one of the first 135 bases to get the KC-46.
 
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KarelXWB
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Re: KC-46 Production, Testing And Delivery

Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:33 am

First KC-46 delivery slides into next year:

http://www.seattletimes.com/business/bo ... next-year/

Delivery of Boeing’s first KC-46 air-to-air refueling tanker to the Air Force, already late and way over budget, has been further delayed from this fall into next year, according to a person familiar with the schedule.

Flight testing and certification milestones have been missed and various problems have emerged in flight test, including instances of the extendable fuel boom scraping against the receiver aircraft.


This shouldn't come as a surprise as 2018 has been mentioned before.
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hilram
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Re: KC-46 Production, Testing And Delivery

Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:46 am

KarelXWB wrote:
First KC-46 delivery slides into next year:

http://www.seattletimes.com/business/bo ... next-year/

Delivery of Boeing’s first KC-46 air-to-air refueling tanker to the Air Force, already late and way over budget, has been further delayed from this fall into next year, according to a person familiar with the schedule.

Flight testing and certification milestones have been missed and various problems have emerged in flight test, including instances of the extendable fuel boom scraping against the receiver aircraft.

Whatever happened to Boeing project management? How come they managed to make the previous tankers? Or is it that they can just let it slide over budget, knowing that eventually Pentagon will cave, and pay up whatever they want?
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ZaphodHarkonnen
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Re: KC-46 Production, Testing And Delivery

Wed Sep 20, 2017 8:24 am

hilram wrote:
KarelXWB wrote:
First KC-46 delivery slides into next year:

http://www.seattletimes.com/business/bo ... next-year/

Delivery of Boeing’s first KC-46 air-to-air refueling tanker to the Air Force, already late and way over budget, has been further delayed from this fall into next year, according to a person familiar with the schedule.

Flight testing and certification milestones have been missed and various problems have emerged in flight test, including instances of the extendable fuel boom scraping against the receiver aircraft.

Whatever happened to Boeing project management? How come they managed to make the previous tankers? Or is it that they can just let it slide over budget, knowing that eventually Pentagon will cave, and pay up whatever they want?


From memory all the people that worked on the preious programs have essentially retired or moved on. So despite the company having done plenty of tankers before this time they're almost starting from scratch.

As for the US Government coming to the rescue I don't think that's going to happen. So far it seems the US Government are sticking hard to the fixed price contract and Boeing are having to eat any overruns. Whether this means a follow on batch are more expensive to recoup costs I don't know. But it looks like this first order will be at the original price for the US Government.
 
Ozair
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Re: KC-46 Production, Testing And Delivery

Wed Sep 20, 2017 10:26 am

ZaphodHarkonnen wrote:

From memory all the people that worked on the previous programs have essentially retired or moved on. So despite the company having done plenty of tankers before this time they're almost starting from scratch.

Bikerthai has explained it previously about how this project was managed internally, compared to say the P-8 which seems to have been better managed and delivered. His explanation is somewhere in the 27 pages of this thread...
ZaphodHarkonnen wrote:
As for the US Government coming to the rescue I don't think that's going to happen. So far it seems the US Government are sticking hard to the fixed price contract and Boeing are having to eat any overruns. Whether this means a follow on batch are more expensive to recoup costs I don't know. But it looks like this first order will be at the original price for the US Government.

Agree, Boeing should and deserves to eat these costs. This further delay has been building for awhile and this will likely continue to be a sore point for earnings for a while to come.
 
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Revelation
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Re: KC-46 Production, Testing And Delivery

Wed Sep 20, 2017 10:39 am

https://twitter.com/ACapaccio/status/910237303100059649 says:

Anthony Capaccio‏ Verified account @ACapaccio 14h14 hours ago

AF discloses today @BoeingDefense KC-46 tanker's been issued 3 Category One deficiency reports including for ``uncommanded boom extension''

That can't be a good thing...
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KarelXWB
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Re: KC-46 Production, Testing And Delivery

Wed Sep 20, 2017 10:44 am

Revelation wrote:
AF discloses today @BoeingDefense KC-46 tanker's been issued 3 Category One deficiency reports including for ``uncommanded boom extension''


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Stitch
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Re: KC-46 Production, Testing And Delivery

Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:43 pm

hilram wrote:
Whatever happened to Boeing project management? How come they managed to make the previous tankers?


The KC-46A has been designed and built in what was expected to be a more streamlined process than the KC-767 and KC-135 / KC-10 programs leveraging Boeing Commercial assets rather than the traditional process of building a passenger 767 and then flying it to a separate facility and gutting it to rebuild it as a military frame. Overall, it will allow Boeing to build them cheaper and faster on the main FAL with final polishing at the EMC, but nobody in BCA has any experience in doing it and most of the original BDS team have retired or moved on so getting to that point has taken far longer and been far more expensive (shades of the 787 where Boeing tried to do something totally new with insufficient experience to pull it off).


hilram wrote:
Or is it that they can just let it slide over budget, knowing that eventually Pentagon will cave, and pay up whatever they want?


The USAF has already paid what they're going to and Boeing is picking up the rest. If the program was completely off the rails (as in the planes were not able to be built or could not fly), then I expect the USAF would come in and bail them out, but at this point, the program is far enough along that it just needs time so the USAF is not going to pay more.

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